I was on the Kifaru forum, and heard a rumor about a 338/08 cartridge being developed by Federal and Sako. Does anybody have any info on this? It seems to me that this would make a great short/medium range cartridge for elk/moose/bear and even pudgy northern whitetails! It could be chambered in virtually every centerfire rifle known to mankind! Of course the gun buying public probably would not go for an over 30 cal. mild mannered woods round.

quote:

338/08

I would rather see the 338-06 legit first. I can't see it becoming more popular than the 06 version either. Look at the 358 Win vrs the 35 Whelen, the 358 is alsmost a cult round anymore, little chambered for it, few factory ammo choices left.

somewhere short of the benefits of the 358... it's been a wildcat for 50 years...

schromf, the 338-06 asquare is "legit" and saami...

i've had ~5 358s.. and it's a neat round... but... the same disadvantages exist for everythin above 30 in north america/us... "it KICKS"... shesh

jeffe

quote:

schromf, the 338-06 asquare is "legit" and saami.

Ok, OK techinical point how about chambered by someone then. Weatherby has even stopped chambering it. Until Win, REM, CZ or somebody chambers it it semi legit, I think the momentum is there, yes I saw and touched factory ammo..once, in a fire sale not to replaced after it was gone.

THis rounds on the hairy edge and I think the next two years or so, are critical if it gets chambered its set, if not I am worried in a slide back into obsurity. I for one hope it makes it.

The 358 Win had the misfortune of being chambered in light rifles, and or bad stocks for the most part. I shot a old model 70 standard grade in the 358 a coupleof years back and it wasn't a pussycat, like a 6mm but comparable to a 30-06.

I think its a waste of time to turn this round into a factory round.

What can it do as a FACTORY round that is so necessary that a .308 or a .358 can't do?

I think wildcatting is fun and can give you a lot of satisfaction and for those that really want to fill a tiny niche (or at least derive some satisfaction out of believing they are) it is worth it....but a factory round?

Seems about as useful as a .325 WSM or any of the RSAUM's........

IV

338-06...unless you want to shoot only light bullets...sorry...waste of time...10 years from now you will wish you didnt...

http://www.cpcartridge.com/338-06-P.htm

338 250 gr going 2,500 or 2,600 fps in a 30-06 size rifle...perrrrrrfect!

I guess I go against the grain, but in my mind, I think the 338/08 would be an excellent round to 300 yards or so and with a 185-200gr could be very efficient producing very good velocities due to expansion ratio in a short barrel.

Since my interest in the round, I have felt the 358 may do what I want and also have pistol bullet options. But a 185x bullet for deer and 210 partition for all else would do all I need on big game to 300yds in a 338/08, perhaps a bit farther depending on sight in.

.338-08..... but the .338-06

In a factory bolt rifle, the 358Win I'd purchase, a 338/08 though interesting, would not be high on the list. Ability to plink with cheap pistol projectiles is a strong point for the .35s. A lack of cheaper projectiles in the .338 caliber would discourage me, hate to be stuck predominantly with BarnesX and Noslers for my practice.
Cheers...
Con

Talk about a dud Other than wildcatters I can't see who this round would appeal to

The existing componet bullets are designed around much higher velocities, and short-medium ranged rounds simply don't have a large following, especially when put in a bolt gun. If one wants to launch a 210 gr partition to 2500 fps, it's a dandy round, but so is the 358 win pushing a 225 2500.

If one wants to push 200 gr and under bullets, the 300 wsm will trounce the 338-08.

Ditto... what a dud! Gotta say I hope that was a typo over at Kifaru and that they really meant a 338-300 WSM which should have been offered over the 325.

Just FYI: Here's what I found over on the Kifaru forums:


---------------------------------------
ianm
Member # 789

posted November 26, 2005 15:06

Ed C
Federal is announcing a .338-308 shortly, a collaboration with Sako. Will be a neat cartridge, not sure who needs it but it is coming.

Posts: 83 | From: Canada | Registered: Apr 2004 |
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from the thread: .338win vs .338-06

http://forums.kifaru.net/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi

-Bob F.

Off thread a bit, but for some time I've thought that a 8.5x57 (338x57, on the 8x57 not 7x57 case) would be a good round. I know it would do nothing the 338-06 can but there's just something about the x57 case, it's charming. It would permit the bullets to be seated further out then the 06 case and should I think look nice and sexy. Perhaps I need to get out more.
As for a 338-08 no thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:

quote:

338/08

I would rather see the 338-06 legit first. I can't see it becoming more popular than the 06 version either. Look at the 358 Win vrs the 35 Whelen, the 358 is alsmost a cult round anymore, little chambered for it, few factory ammo choices left.

Like the .338/'06, the .338/'08 has been around for decades as a wildcat. Most versions have a plain ol' .308 case neck expanded to shoot .338 bullets with no other change. It is obviously as intelligent to neck the .308 up to .338 as it is to neck it up to .358......

BUT, I too would prefer to see a lot of people start chambering for the .338/06 first!

All points well made, 300 WSM is a better long range round if you need it, the 358 cheaper bullets and larger cross section, the 338/06-a GREAT round, built and owned one, let it go.

I hunt in the south mostly, so it would be used mostly on deer, but I have slowly swung my interest to equally consider the 358. If a factory round was chambered, it would save the money I would spend on a custom barreled gun in either cartridge. I like short action rounds that are capable, adequate, yet not excessive.

That is just me. Hotter rounds do reach much better I admit. Guess I just enjoy shooting too much.

Eh, I don't know.

A 338/08 sounds like an interesting experiment, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I think too many people relate a 338 anything to the 338 Win Mag - which is a hefty kicker to the layman. I also think too many causal shooters relate anything over .30 with too much recoil.

And really and truthfully, I think too many causal shooters own too many .243's, .270's, 30-06's, and 300 Winnie's to need anything new.

From an interest standpoint, I think its great that someone is coming out with something new and I wish Federal as much luck with their new 338/08 as I do Winchester with their new 325; if this is more than a rumor that is...

But I just really and truthfully don't see this coming off. They're trying to answer a question that no one but a wildcatter has asked in a long time...

Just go buy yourself an 8X57 in a good action and load it up to its real potential. Why waste the effort with a 338-08.

......and I own two 338 caliber rifles!

Barstooler

I already own a 338/08. I had a Winchester Model 88 rebored from a 308 to the 338. Neat round, lots of bullet choices (more than for my two 358's)
I would love to see a factory round come out for this caliber although it's such an easy round to reload for I'd have to see if the price would be worth it.
Is it any better than a 308 or 358? no, but then is a 25/06 better than a 270 or is a 260rem better than a 7mm08? We have so darn many calibers that are so close to each other I don't think it's worth arguing if a 338-08 is needed.

In "Wildcats Volume 2" the 338-08 is done up in a Winchester 88. The 210 Nosler Part. gets 2576 f.p.s.

quote:

Originally posted by Barstooler:
Just go buy yourself an 8X57 in a good action and load it up to its real potential. Why waste the effort with a 338-08.

......and I own two 338 caliber rifles!

Barstooler

Exactly, the 8x57 is better than many newer cartridges!

Here is the party line from Federal. Sako is chambering rifles..jim

Federal Cartridge Company pioneered the Premium ammunition category in 1977.
With decades of successful manufacturing, forward-thinking and outstanding
quality, only one thing was missing—Federal’s own cartridge.

This void is now filled with a unique combination of two time-tested
designs—the .338 bullet atop the versatile .308 cartridge case. It’s a
combination that’s been made a legitimate cartridge by the development
efforts of the engineering and ballistics staff at Federal in collaboration
with Sako rifles. A larger diameter bullet in the shorter-action .308 case
generates approximately 200 feet per second more velocity than a standard
.308 with a 30-caliber bullet (when comparable bullet weights are
considered).

The .338 Federal delivers the only modern .338-caliber load that isn’t a
magnum configuration. It gives big game hunters a larger diameter bullet for
more weight and overall energy on target—without magnum recoil.

According to Federal President Mark DeYoung, "This product breaks new ground
for Federal and compliments our emphasis on product innovation. The .338
Federal captures the capability of the longstanding .308 case, and offers
the respected performance of the .338 bullet, a favorite of big game
hunters. These two mainstays have been proven time and again and are now
brought together into a quality factory load. This cartridge also offers an
advanced option in support of the current trend for lighter rifles. The .338
Federal offers hunters more muzzle energy than a 30-06 Springfield—equaling
that of a 7mm Rem Mag. It’s a non-magnum offering that boasts magnum energy.
The round delivers devastating performance on game, including deer, bear and
elk and we’re proud to put our name on it."

Three Premium load offerings will be available in the fall of 2006:
P338FA1: 180-grain Nosler AccuBond 2830 fps
P338FB: 210-grain Nosler Partition 2630 fps
P338FC: 185-grain Barnes Triple-Shock 2750 fps

Product will be available in spring of 2006. Keep an eye on the Federal and
Sako websites for more ballistic information and availability updates.

Sounds like cut & paste marketing hype to me.

Barstooler

Sooo, what exactly is the advantage that the 338/308 or 338/06 has over my 35 Whelen?

Sounds like another Win. Short Mag. hype caliber. Existing ballistics in another package with the "promise" that somehow this will actually work "better" than a 30-06, 270, 35 Whelen, or some other caliber that has been around longer than I have. Hey, I have no problem with it, gun companies got to sell guns to stay in business and "new-is-better" has always been a good sales technique.

There are two other players in this field that no one has mentioned so far: The 9.3 BS and the 9.3 WSM. Take a look at the BCs of .366 bullets; they beat both the 338s and 35s and carry more weight. The 338s are made for higher velocities than the 308 case can generate for optmum performance.

The 9.3 BS is the off spring of John Barsness And Charle Sisk. Based on the 350 Remingtion Magnum case, the 9.3 BS gives 9.3 x 62 velocities and feeds reliably through virtually any short action made, so it is a known entity.

The 9.3 WSM is more powerful but may also have some feeding issues. It would equal or better the 9.3 x 64 and they can both accomplish their intended purposes in 20 to 22 inch barrels, for quick, dynamic rifles of reasonabl weight and recoil. What more could you ask for...Rusty.

The factories introduce cartridges to sell more guns and ammunition (or components). The .338-'08 will do that. I will be interested in watching the .325 WSM and this new cartridge compete.

The 9.3 BS and the 9.3 "WSM" are wildcats, and may or may not find a following.

jim

Last year I won a gun in a raffle and traded it for a BAR syn stalker in .308. It was really sweet for the wisconsin brush hunting we do. Lot's of twigs in the way (I guess that's why they call it brush). That little BAr was really sweet in the snowy weather and so nice to carry with the 20" barrel. Now I see that new cartridge and think---this would be the perfect "firepower" for this type of hunting in a bar. Not for everyone but boy for this hunting it would be great. Hard to argue with the Power/powder burned ratio (like we need another excuse to buy a new cartridge). Anyhow like above posters said....don't even argue if it's necessary....there are so many cartridges out there today that "aren't necessary" that arguing is a waste of breath.

Think of this kimber 84m rebarrel to a .338 federal might kick though. First thought that hit my mind when I seen that on federals website.Are ballistics similar to .358 win.?

Good point, the 338/308 already exists, it's called the 358 Win.

Ah, yes, but the mar-com guys at Federal think that the magic "338" in the name will bring home the $ ! I realy admire the creativity of these people, it must be tough to come up with "new" products when there are already existing products that already do the same thing as well or better and have an established following.

If you got a worn out 308 barrel a rebore job to 338 makes some sense. Other than that the cartridge is a waste of resources.

quote:

Sooo, what exactly is the advantage that the 338/308 or 338/06 has over my 35 Whelen?

I wouldn't trade your Whelen in yet.

But on paper the 338-06 has a slight advantage. In the field no noticeable difference.

I think the 338-08 has some merit.
Let's see, I already am well stocked with 338 caliber bullets for my 338-06. I see a nice quick pointing, rifle on a short action in my future. Maybe a mannlicher stock nice compact fixed 2.5 power scope. Ponder, ponder, ponder.

I have a mint Browning BLR in 358 Win that I haven't bought reloading supplies for yet, any takers?

Yep, 338/06, 35 Whelen, 9.3X62 all work very well, have for years and will continue to do so. I might like to play with a 358 Win as a "gun of the year" project at some point but I've got lots of projects on the burner now.

The only paper I care about is the Tyvek from MT-FWP that I cut and tape to my elk.

Why not. I recall an old thread about this chambering and its owners seem to like it quite well.

Like the 338/06 vs the 35 Whelen, it wont be much different than a 358 win. Apples and apples. Same basic ballistics with a new lable.

Its usefullness will be as a limited range cartridge without the extra weight and recoil of something like a 338 mag. Good for eastern woods whitetails, black bear, Elk @ 150-200 yds etc.

Me, Ill stick with my Whelen for now though.

BTW, Yes, I wonder myself if the 325 will make it, it DOES have good performance but I want moderate recoil/blast etc in a short action, not magnum kick/blast, so it is out for me. I believe for most hunters a 'shooter friendly/less recoil' round like a 338-08 or 358 is a better choice.

I see everyone's point to have 'cons' about the 338/08, but if someone did not already own a hunting rifle and wanted something dependable for deer out to 300 yards, I believe this cartridge would be just as reliable or more than some for putting deer down fast. A larger caliber 180gr at the speed of a 30/06 should stomp most deer.

I KNOW first hand from my 338/06 what a 200 gr ballistic tip at 2900 does out to 200 yards, and if you look at the charts, that bullet at that speed is very efficient way out there.

A 308 version is less, but for 90-95% of the ranges people hunt at, I believe it is plenty.

IF Winchester made a 358 factory, I would buy it and be just as happy or happier. I might look in the future at a BLR 358, or just build one, but I will seriously consider owning a 338 308 as I have had a dummy round loaded in my desk drawer under my computer for some time. Just as I shot a 6BR and 6.5/308 before most people shot them inc. the 260, I believe the 338/308 to be a good design, NOT that many other cartridges won't do what it can and perhaps better.

I just know the record of 338 bullets on game and just because it comes out a little slower, does not mean it won't effectively down game.

As popular and effective as the 7mm-08 with a 140 at 2800 is on deer (factory load-my loads shoot 2960 w/21"), I believe a 338 cal. 180 gr at 2800 MUST be MORE effective on deer sized animals with perhaps a small but insignificant difference in drop at real world field distances.

I have no qualms what anyone shoots, but I want and expect to own either a 338-308 OR a 358 KNOWING full well they are slightly less potent than the 06 versions.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

Reading the above sight really impressed me on the 358, more than ever, but despited a 338/08 not having the option of pistol bullets etc, I only see myself choosing 1 or 2 bullets to hunt with, previous to knowing what Federal would load the 185x and 210 PT are THE bullets of choice. A 200 Hornady would be good for deer, likely would do for elk, the ballistic tip is too long and eats up powder space.

Anyway, if it comes out and I own one, I will not feel undergunned here in the south where I hunt, If I get longer shots I will take either my 7/08 or 6BR, the 6BR has killed to 400 yds with a 105 Amax and you should have seen the impact, deer went about 25 yards.

Place your shots, they will ALL do the job with a good bullet. The rest is just mental masturbation as a friend once called it.

That was a great article on the .358 win. Thanks for sharing.
Some years ago I purchased a used SAKO Forester carbine. You know the one, full stock, 20 inch barrel and the svelt L579 action. The only issue was the caliber. It was a .243. I let my boys use it on deer until they were big enough to move on to rifles of their own and then decided to rebore to a more "suitable" cartridge.
I gave the 338/08 carefull concideration, but didn't want to have to purchase custom dies and there was little reloading information available for it. Instead I had her cut for the .358 win. It's agreat little gun now. 200 grain Hornadays for deer and the wonderful 225 Nosler for elk or anything else, for that matter.
Nowadays the .358 is pretty much a widcat round. Factory ammo is almost impossible to find and expensive. There are some custom ammo loaders that will roll you some. $$
I think the 338/08 makes sense. There are lots of custom bullets to choose for reloading and rifles can be made up to be light weight, handy, and powerful without pounding the shooter to death. Just think of a Ruger 77RSI or a Remington model 7 in 338/08. Or a Kimber Mountain rifle for that matter...Sweet.
Top it with a Leupold 2x7 or 2.5x8, load it with 180's for deer. 225's for elk and moose or whatever. Or just roll some 210 Noslers for everything and call it good.
It makes more sense to me than any of the new short mags and people will shoot it better because their not being pounded to peices.
Wayne Van Zwoll wrote an interesting article in Rifle Shooters magazine a few years ago on the various .338 cartridges. He gave favorable remarks to the 338/08. Powerful, deadly, in a user friendly package that was easy to shoot, It gave up little real world usefulness to the larger cartridges.
I for one, embrace the concept and wish Federal and Sako the best. I beleive it has merit. BT53

Last night I wrote a letter to Federal commending them for introducing a practical logical sensible cartridge w/o magnum recoil and blast that allows casual hunters/shooters to hit what they intend to as we know what happens when people are flinching and scared of what comes back on their end.

I reiterated your comments, high cost custom dies and case forming made the cartridge 'less attractive' in the past more or less and now it will even be more logical for me to own one.

I assume when SAAMI spec'd it can be produced by other companies than Sako but I don't know-I did ask and await their reply.

I did recently aquire a marlin 357 to plink with inexpensive pistol bullets and have read raves from owners how much they enjoy using them within 100 yards on game up to deer. I believe the 'fun factor' begins with light recoil and blast with dependable performance in the field.

That is what I expect from a 338/08, no doubt if I only owned 1 rifle and hunted out West predominantly or in very open areas, I might choose the '06 version or something with similar ballistics, but MY hunting is largely in the south, and when opening day is over and the deer are wise, the game gets in the thick wooded areas, and long shots are usually not common.

Out of 30 deer, 1 was in Colorado at 250/275, 1 here in a field at 400yds, the rest all under 200.

Odds are I will shoot 200 or less 95% of the time.

I wonder what is the average range of shooters on the board here? Geography likely influences that heavily.

I think it is interesting that someone mentioned the 9.3 BS. John Barsness wrote that piece with his tongue firmly in his cheek.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rusty Hook:

The 9.3 WSM is more powerful but may also have some feeding issues. QUOTE]



The 9.3 WSM, which I call the "9.3 Bison" has no feeding issues with 286 gr. Norma bullets from my Montana 1999 action.

Let's see...my current stable of "useful & fun guns" (those are the ones which I like to take to the range and shoot offhand just for the heck of it, when they're not out hunting in the dense Western Oregon woods), currently include

- Marlin 336's in .35 Rem, .375 Win, 444 Marlin

- Winchester 94's in .356 Win, .38-55 Win

- BLR in .358 Win

among others.

Seems to me like the .338/08 would fit right in that group as a handy, useful, and FUN gun to own. I really like the idea mentioned above about one in a Ruger 77RSI or Browning BLR. Already have a .308 77-RSI, and the .338-08 would be a good substitute for the M70-FW .358 I sold many years ago....

I like the idea. Hope it makes a go of it.