I want to build or buy a bolt action rifle that's handy (i.e. shorter barrel / good balance) and powerful. I want it to be powerful enough to be legal for cape buff (hope to go in 2-3 years), but versatile enough to be my short range (< 200 yds planned) go-to rifle for whitetail and black bear. I would appreciate advice on caliber, action and other considerations.

A longer rifle gets tight in a small deer stand and is easier to maneuver through the woods. Longer barrels have certain advantages and are probably better in more open environments. I much prefer putting muzzle blast as far away from my face as possible. A few extra FPS is always a plus too. However, a 46" long rifle in a deer stand or dense woods is just a pain! Cutting the barrel down from 26" or 24" to 20" or 22" makes a huge difference in perceived utility.

My thoughts on caliber are between 9.3x62mm, 375 Ruger and 375 H&H. I like the efficiency and magazine capacity of the 9.3. The lower relative recoil is always a positive too. I might also purchase a heavier rifle later, but that's a separate issue. I like the idea of a 9.3 the best. The 375's have a wider range of bullet variety, with more options for lighter game. The Ruger could go in a lighter weight rifle than the H&H, but I don't want to rifle to be too light to shoot well / recover quickly. The H&H would have the best world-wide ammo availability. I handload, so I would not be limited to factory fodder.

I'm most interested in the new SC Winchester Model 70's as my platform. I really like the triggers. There are lots of stocks available. There are also lots of other aftermarket parts available (bottom metal, etc.). However, I Winchester doesn't make a rifle that would be a ready fit for my purpose, so I would probably be looking at a rebarrel. (I'm thinking that's going to range about ~$600 or so). I would not just want to chop down the barrel on the 375H&H Safari, as I think that might not result in great balance and would probably create work to reinstall the sights.

Ruger has several likely candidates. The 9.3 African is awfully close to what I really want. I'd rather it be a little shorter by 2". The 375 Ruger Alaskan is pretty much what I'm describing, except I would want a better stock. I know McMillian makes several stocks for Rugers, but none have the same profile as their safari stocks (Sako / Winchester).

The Sako 85 Black Bear in 9.3x62 is pretty much exactly what I'm after. However, I have concerns regarding the magazine and scope mounting. The Optilock rings are expensive as a QD option. I also understand that the Sako action is not true CRF. That said, it's a very nice rifle.

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. I look forward to your insights.

Michael458 has done extensive work in this area with his B&M cartridges and rifles. Look at his website and his threads in the big bore forum. I have shot them a bunch too and know how well they handle and shoot. http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

If you are looking for a 9.3, the CZ550 FS has a 20.5" barrel and an overall length of 41". The weight is nice as well. This one weighs 8.5 lbs with scope & rings.

If you don't like wood, there is also a CZ Kevlar Carbine with a 20.5" barrel.

I want to stay away from a wildcat.

I had not thought of CZ. I will check them out. Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
If you are looking for a 9.3, the CZ550 FS has a 20.5" barrel and an overall length of 41". The weight is nice as well. This one weighs 8.5 lbs with scope & rings.

If you don't like wood, there is also a CZ Kevlar Carbine with a 20.5" barrel.

I would second this notion. A fine handy carbine with plenty of punch.

Some .250's would be perfect for deer and the heavier stuff would do for larger animals.

Another option,
Go to gunbroker and look at all the nice 458 Win Mags for cheap prices.
Take one of those and cut it down to 20 inches.
Handload your ammo to 45/70 levels.

Cheers, John

That is certainly an idea but the 9.3x62 can shoot surprisingly flat and therefore I'd consider it to be far more versatile.

But, .458's do seem to be cheap these days.

Doesn't Blaser offer the 93 in 375H&H with a carbine barrel?

They do. I've considered that route, but it just gets expensive for what you have. Great guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
Another option,
Go to gunbroker and look at all the nice 458 Win Mags for cheap prices.
Take one of those and cut it down to 20 inches.
Handload your ammo to 45/70 levels.

Cheers, John

That's a neat thought, but it would not shoot flat enough for what I want. I have a 45/70 guide gun that I will be selling to fund part of this project.

9.3X62 without any doubt! The CZ sounds good though I ahve no experience. How about rebarrelling a Winchester Mod 70 classic?

375 ruger.. buy a tough factory rifle and be done with it.. if game can tell the difference between .009" and 30 grains of bullet weight.. or 100 fps, none have ever lived to tell about it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
375 ruger.. buy a tough factory rifle and be done with it.. if game can tell the difference between .009" and 30 grains of bullet weight.. or 100 fps, none have ever lived to tell about it.

That's probably the logical thing to do or go the sako route. I would want to switch stocks on the ruger Alaskan and wish I could get an extended mag box / bottom metal to hold one more round.

The Blaser R-93 Professional Tracking in 9.3x62 has a 19.75" barrel and only 37" overall length. It use to be cataloged in .375 H&H the same length and you might be able to find a .375 Tracking barrel used. But I really think the 9.3 is the ideal choice for what you want.

Here is mine in 9.3x62. I had a 23" R93 barrel cut to 20" and had Tip Burns put Recknagel sights on it. It is super handy and shoots one hole groups at 100 yards.

quote:

to build or buy a bolt action rifle that's handy (i.e. shorter barrel / good balance) and powerful. I want it to be powerful enough to be legal for cape buff (hope to go in 2-3 years), but versatile enough to be my short range (< 200 yds planned) go-to rifle for whitetail and black bear. I would appreciate advice on caliber, action and other considerations.

I built a 416 Ruger on a VZ-24 action and a #5 contour 20" barrel....it was actually quite light, handy, and powerful shooting 400 grains a full 2400 FPS.....everything you're looking for.....but it kicked like hell!

quote:

Originally posted by quickdraw:
I would want to switch stocks on the ruger Alaskan and wish I could get an extended mag box / bottom metal to hold one more round.

Not trying to push the CZ as I own Rugers too. If number of rounds is important, the CZ holds 5.

What about a used Blaser R93 Pro in 9,3x62?
Remember that the Blaser's lack of "action" make's the hole thing about 3 inches shorter(8cm) than a regular bolt action
And then you can chop of an inch or 2 of the barrel....

M

quote:

Originally posted by metric:
What about a used Blaser R93 Pro in 9,3x62?
Remember that the Blaser's lack of "action" make's the hole thing about 3 inches shorter(8cm) than a regular bolt action
And then you can chop of an inch or 2 of the barrel....

M

I've thought hard about a Blaser for years. My concern is that they become an expensive addiction. A new barrel costs more than a Model 70. Their scope system is awesome, but expensive.

A second for the Ruger Africa. I have used mine on moose here in Norway, and on planes game in Nabibia.
Handy, light, powerfull, rock solid scope mounting, top class open sights.

And there is no problem to have three down and one in the spout.
In real life it´s a four round rifle, and a slick and trim one as well.

And now you can have the same package (Hawkeye Africa) in 9,3x62 if you like.

quote:

Originally posted

Not trying to push the CZ as I own Rugers too. If number of rounds is important, the CZ holds 5.

I will look into te CZ option more. I've read that they need a fair amount of work. I have not had the opportunity to handle one.

Reading the OP my thoughts are-

The New M70 is getting great reviews from users. Cutting a barrel down and redoing the front sight is a lot cheaper than a rebarrel.

I would get either the 375 or 416 and cut it down to 20 in.
I am shooting a 416 B&M with 20 in barrel and love it. have become a big fan of short barrels .

With modern powders you dont give up much range-say 50 fps per inch-thats only 200 fps and with new monometal bullets go lighter and make up the difference there.

SSR

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
Reading the OP my thoughts are-

The New M70 is getting great reviews from users. Cutting a barrel down and redoing the front sight is a lot cheaper than a rebarrel.

I would get either the 375 or 416 and cut it down to 20 in.
SSR

I played with a number of rifles at several gun shops. The Model 70's consistently had the best trigger to me. The Safari had a great balance. My plan / goal with a reasonably unrestrained budget would be to get a 416 as the heavier cousin to whatever this handy rifle winds up as.

From what I,m getting from the original post, the two most obvious answers would be a Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger, or the CZ Carbine kevlar, in 9.3x62.
Either one, right around 41" long, the Ruger,s a bit heavier, with a 300 grain bullet, plants into the shoulder just a bit more solid than the CZ with a 286 grain..
I,ve got a 9.3x62 CZ, mannlicher stock, same rifle as the carbine kevlar with a wood stock. Maybe I,m not refined enough to know any better, but that gun has not needed any work to make it shoot or function right. Figure out the load I want, put on a shorter front sight, scootch the rear sight over a bit, and I,m off to the races!..
Personally, the CZ stocks fit me well, I,ve got another 9.3 on the shopping list, the American with a synthetic stock and a slightly longer barrel. Probly round up a 416 this summer, again in CZ.
Chevy or Ford, I guess. Right back to the same question again. Which gun feels "right" to you? Which ones talkin to ya? Which one do you keep coming back to?..

If it ain,t the CZ, Ruger, or Sako, might be easier in the long run to get on good terms with your gunsmith, and head down there with a Winchester..

I also own a CZ 550FS in 9.3 and 6.5 and they just needed to be broken in, that's all. The more you use it the better they get.

Oh, look at a Howa in 375 Ruger.
You mentioned and the Howa is very light and as cheap as a Savage.
I like cheap, as long as it shoots good.

Cheers, John

Did not mean to knock CZs. I've just read that many people put a fair am lint of money into them. I have an old Santa Barbara Mauser that I love! I will have to find a local dealer and play with a few. That could be my best bet.

There are 2 things that a lot of guys have changed on a CZ.
1. CZ has a 2 position safety and they have a 3 position installed.
2. CZ has a single set trigger, a lot of guys dont like it.

The only other thing is that they are a little bit heavier than other brands.
That about covers it.
I'd rather have an original BRNO my self.

Cheers, John

My CZ has a 3 position safety. It's just not a wing safety like the Winchester or Ruger.

The full stock CZs usualy come with a 3 pos safety. You can order the other models with the 3 position safety, no extra charge that I,m aware of.

I found a 30/06 Sako Model 75 and had it rebarreled to 9.3x62 with a 21 inch barrel. The detachable mag is very handy in enclosed deer or bear blinds and the gun can provide great versatility. I think I spent about $1K for the works when all in. The Ruger African was not around when I did mine. Today I would buy the Ruger and have the barrel shortened and be done. Magazine capacity in my opinion is over rated. A bolt gun that holds four is plenty for most occasions. If you find yourself in one of those rare "firefights" five isn't much better. I have a friend that was convinced he needed a six round magazine for his 458 Lott Ruger RSM. It cost him a grand and doesn't feed for shit. Redo a Sako 75 and carry a couple spare magazines in your pocket. You will have all the firpower you would ever need. Those magazines in the model 75 can be swapped pretty fast. The model 85s are much slower requiring an extra step to drop the magazine.

I would get the Ruger African in 9.3x62 and be done. If I didn't already have a couple built on FN's I would own the Ruger.

A Mauser 98 with a 19 inch barrel in 35 Whelen is just fine for what you want. 9.3 so what.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunsmoker:
A Mauser 98 with a 19 inch barrel in 35 Whelen is just fine for what you want. 9.3 so what.

I believe that currently the 9.3x62 is more available than any medium bore except the .338 Win Mag and this popularity is on the rise. However, provided a .35 Whelen has a twist rate faster than Remington's standard 1 in 16" (1 in 14" would be good) I don't think any game animal could feel the slight paper balistic advantage of the 9.3x62. A 1 in 14" .35 Whelen is a good general purpose medium.

I went with a 9.3, but can't fault anyone who goes with a .35 Whelen.

quote:

What about a used Blaser R93 Pro in 9,3x62?

Quick-Draw,

I have a Blaser R93 in .375H&H and 9.3x62, simply a superb rifle. The older OffRoad stock makes for a light package. The .375H&H all up w/scope,sling & ammo weighs 7.4 lbs. Some folks claim it's a bruiser but I bought the barrel used (w/2 shots outa the tube, from a wimp who had it Magna-Ported after the intial shot and sold it after the second!) although it doesn't seem too bad to me at all, never notice either at the bench or in the field. It's still got it's 25.6" inch standard factory tube though.

quote:

I would not just want to chop down the barrel on the 375H&H Safari, as I think that might not result in great balance and would probably create work to reinstall the sights.

My expereince is otherwise on both balance & cost factors. A Winchester Model 70 in .375H&H can be made up quite handily into what you're contemplating IMO. Standard factory 24" tube simply chopped to 20" w/barrel band front sight & sling swivel installed. $275.00 later - Violá.

The original ramp sight and brazed-on underlug swivel stud didn't meet my idea of "classic" concept, either so making the decision to "chop" & "change" came pretty easily.



I can't speak for the new SC Winchesters but as you can see from the photo my older rifle has a real beefy tube and the 24" length was just too muzzle heavy IMO. Balances much-o better to me as chopped. Especially when carried with a sling; the longish, heavy 24" tube didn't carry right IMO.

It's not only been to Africa but I've been known to use it on a Drive Hunt or two where it handles smartly; also inside the confined spaces of Teutonic High Seats & stands the short barrel is a GOOD Thing. Some Soothsayers would have you believe that the short tube is a detriment to performance but I can vouch that the Hornady 300 gr. R.N.'s haven't bounced off anything I've shot at - yet.



As you can note from my photos you're obviously not Left-Hand challenged as I am; so there's a bunch more options open to you, especially in the Ruger & CZ line.

..... and one day I have a vision of a real thumper, so on my short list is a twin L/H Winchester Model 70 in .458 Winchester with the same 20" tube length, acoutrements & w/o scope.

Have fun with your decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunsmoker:
A Mauser 98 with a 19 inch barrel in 35 Whelen is just fine for what you want. 9.3 so what.

He said he wanted to be legal for cape buffalo though. I don't think .35 Whelen is legal for cape buff anywhere that there are caliber restrictions. There are some countries where 9.3 is the minimum caliber, and some where it's .375.

A fair number of people think a .375 is a bit on the small side for cape buffalo, so the .35 Whelen is almost certainly not an option.

If the intent was only to use the rifle for deer and black bear, the Whelen would be perfect. I'm building one myself and intend to use it for deer/bear/elk in the future.

I'd be careful shooting any lightweight thumpers from stand.

3 suggestions if you're looking at the 9.3x62, which is a great choice and makes an around great rifle for anywhere in the world.

The first is the Steyr Classic Mannlicher, wood stock, 20" barrel, called the "Mountain" version. Weighs only 7.3 lbs, has iron sights and sets up really nice with scope as well. But it's pricey at MSRP of $2799. If that meets your budget, I think the best 9.3x62 out there.

Second would be the Merkel KR-1 in 9.3x62. Super slick action, weighs in at 6.5 lbs, can get it with or without iron sights, and is a real beauty. MSRP without mounts/rings/scope is $1995. I one available that can be had for a little less.

Third would be the Steyr Pro African with synthetic stock, iron sights, and comes in at 7.7 lbs. MSRP is $1799.

These are three great shooting rifles with smooth actions and crisp trigger that would need no customization and will hold their value.

After those 3, for a 9.3x62 your best bet would be a CZ, a custom gun, or a used one.

I personally prefer the .375 H&H for some of the reasons you've already mentioned. Lots more guns available and lots of loads available. A nice Interarms Mark X, especially a Whitworth, is hard to beat for the money.

Good luck,

A friend and I both used 9.3s on buff in Zim two years ago. 320 Woodleighs will do anything a 375 will do on buff. That being said the 375H&H is ALOT more common in Africa if you happen to need to get ammo there. 375 Ruger, I bet there would be an almost zero chance of getting ammo in Africa if you needed it in a pinch. It would really suck to ruin a $30k+ trip because your ammo is lost and you can't find any.

Two best choices. The low cost option, a Ruger African in .375 Ruger or 9.3X62. The best option, a Blaser professional in 9.3X62 (or, if you wish, 9.3X64). Blasers make up into a neat little package, they are light and handy, and it is the finest takedown rifle on the market.

I like custom rifles and I build my own, but the day I asked the local dealer to let me see that Ruger African, I fell for it and bought it on the spot, I couldn't even wait for a 9.3x62 so I opted for the available .338 Win. and I love it..It is what a hunting rifle should be nice barrel band swivel, shallow V iron sights, barrel band front sight, Mod. 70 safety. groved for scope rings and capable of low scope mounting, and most of all they cut away all that bulky ugly wood that's on most factory guns including Ruger as a rule..It is a 5 star gun and if I din't have two early Huskvarna 9.3x62 rifles I would find me a Ruger African in that caliber for sure.

As far as a handy 200 yard deer and black bear rifle I still like the 30-30 Win. It has always served me well up to that range. I suppose there are better cartridges but if it ain't broke, I see little need in fix'en it. I like my old 30-30 when the terrian and hunting conditions allows its use, but its not for everyone apparantly. I suppose there is a bit of nostalgia where I'm concerned, I cut my teeth on mine, my first of many deer and my first of more than a few elk.