The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles I need some info on replacing a barrel with an Ackley.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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3100 easy 3150 probably jmho bounty hunter this is YOUR best choice--------------another jmho | |||
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Hey bh Good to see you. Hopefully more than that. Nosler #5 manual lists 3196 fps max with RL22 and I have always been able to exceed book max, especially with a 26" barrel. Hoping for 3250 to 3300 fps. Possible? ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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My dog doesn't do "crack"..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Hey, tell me how to find a chapter of Ackley Anon in central Idaho. I was just getting ready to tear a Savage Varmint rifle apart so I could send the 22-250 barrel off to Sharpshooter Supply for a new chamber in 22-243AI. Then I find myself coveting a 6mmAI barrel so that I can play the switch barrel game. Maybe a few group therapy sessions at "AA" would save me a bunch of cash? Idaho Shooter | |||
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 good oneput a caption on this one   ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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It already has the perfect caption  | |||
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Don't you think it would get a little tiresome standing up in front of sledder and vapodog and saying "Hi-My name is Idaho Shooter and I'm an Ackleyholic" 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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Hey Magnum61, Yes, but with reasons. Looks like jimmy and his other vulgar buddies are too busy cursing each other to offer you any clear insight. The 270Win is factory loaded to a higher Pressure than the 280Rem. The reasons for this have nothing to do with the results. If you have two "modern bolt action rifles" with one being a 270Win and one a 280Rem, and load the 280Rem to the same Pressure as the 270Win, you will get higher Velocity in the 280Rem for the same Bullet weight. Or the same Velocity at less Pressure. That is because of the Bullet Base diameter being larger which allows more energy transfer and a larger internal volume - basic Physics. Now if you go one step farther and have both reamed to the Ackley Chambers, and load both to similar Pressure, the 280Rem will still have a higher Velocity for the same bullet weight - same Physics. The location of the 280Rem Case Shoulder is slightly longer than the 270Win. That means the internal Volume is slightly larger to begin with and carrys through to the Ackley version if done properly. --- Same annology can be made with the 30-06 when compared to the 270Win and 280Rem - except - the location of the 270Win shoulder is a duplicate of the 30-06. Here is where the AI versions can get tricky, because unlike you have been lead to believe by some folks, if a 30-06 is recut for an AI version, it can also be extended slightly forward for use with the 280Rem "Shoulder position", or even a bit farther forward. And moving the Shoulder "Forward" can be done on ANY of them. There you simply Neck-Up a 280Rem case and Fire Form "if" it is done to match those Cases. So, it is important to communicate extremely well with whoever is going to cut the new Chamber about exactly what you want. And it is also extremely important to receive a Chamber Cast. Not all 270AIs, 280AIs and 30-06AIs are made the same. --- Then there is the "uniquness" of each Bore dimension which can have either a positive or negative effect on the end Velocity. You might go through the entire exercise and end up with a 270AI that does in fact shoot at a higher Velocity than a 280AI. --- You get through with the entire process and you have a nice Custom Rifle that "might" get the same velocity as a regular old 7mmRemMag. So, for people interested in AI cartridges, their decision should not be based on Velocity, but simply having something different. | |||
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I'm truly amazed that you forgot to mention the fact that they should only be rechambered to Ackley Improved when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter is aligned with Mars and peace will guide the planet and Love will steer the stars. Thats far more relevant than the book you just wrote here. Where do you get this bullshit? 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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This is about as truthful of AI chambered guns as I've read.....excellent post. I do take exception to this statement however.
You can "AI" the piss out of the 280 Remington and it won't be an equal round to the 7 MM Rem Mag.....however it's also true that the standard 280 Remington with good handloads will stand right alongside the 7MM Rem Mag but not very far in the background......close enough to make the 7 MM Rem Mag unattractive to a guy that likes the lighter weight of the 280 Remington and the extra magazine capacity. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Most of you probubly know this already but I called Forster Reloading Products and they said if you have the chamber reamer they will make you bench rest dies for you for about $200. Thought I would add that. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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Hey VapoDog, If I had the very first 7mmRemMag I ever had, I'd agree with you 100%. No 280Rem or 280AI could match it Velocity wise. My current 7mmRemMag is one of those strange rifles that shoots very accurately(thank goodness), but it has a "Slow Barrel". The most Velocity I can get out of it at a SAFE MAX Load is 3050fps with a 140gr bullet. So, I'd "guess" there is a good chance some 280AIs could leave it in the dust - Velocity wise. But when it comes to making a rather long shot, it seems to do just fine at that speed. --- Interesting that your take on my last post is so much different than jimmy's vulgarity. He has really left quite an impression of his "first-hand knowledge" in my mind. | |||
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I shared some chrono'ed data on the 280 AI on page 1, hoping others might share their chrono'ed load data on the 280 AI. Anybody have any such data? Regards, AIU | |||
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280 Remington Ackley Improved 40 degree 139 grain Hornady Interbond seated to 3.32" COAL Remington brass Winchester Large Rifle Primer 57 grains H4831 START 64 grains H4831 MAXIMUM MAXIMUM yields 3150 fps from my 24" barrel. 280 Remington Ackley Improved 40 degree 154 grain Hornady Interbond seated to 3.36" COAL Remington brass CCI 250 primer 55 grains WMR START 60.5 grains WMR MAXIMUM MAXIMUM yields 2950 fps from my 24" barrel. Work up carefully from START towards MAXIMUM watching for signs of excessive pressure or velocity. You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not. | |||
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Jackfish, how do you determine MAXIMUM? | |||
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Hey AIU, You beat me to it, but I was going to ask that of jimmy. I imagine that once we wade through all of jimmy's vulgar response, that he won't have an answer worth a hill of beans. Should be good for a few grins to see how little jimmy actually knows. | |||
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Neither of these velocities seem at all out of line for the 280 AI ....very achievable with prudent loading. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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hot core, Jimmy,as you call him is involved in a moving/remodeling project but rest assured, you will hear back from him. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Vapodog, Your decision was a wise one and i'll leave it at that. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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When I need to experience wisdom I'll contact someone with a brain. Thanks for trying anyhow. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, The bottom line is... you didn't take my challenge because you knew that there was a chance that you would be proven wrong and where would you're credibility be then?You would have to eat crow and that wouldn't align too well with your massive ego. You're pretty brave sitting there at your keyboard, I doubt you'd have the balls to make that previous statement to my face, would you? I personally don't care if you believe the velocity that I posted or not, you just made a blanket statement, on information that you gathered on the internet or from your ballistic programs and none from actual experience concerning Ackley Improved cartridges. What you failed to take into consideration is the fact that my rifle has polygon rifling and is reported to reduce bullet friction by 10% resulting in higher velocity, you do the math, also that said barrel is 27.5" Speer's test rifle went 3,410 with the same basic load that i'm using, with a 22" barrel. Again, I don't care what your opinion is. One other thing, you should start closing your bedroom door, you're obviously teaching Rex bad habits or is it the other way around??? Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Geeeeeesh! This thread is like a "soap opera". You can come back weeks later, and everthing is still the same. The plot never changes, it just goes on and on. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Although I've been quilty myself of exchanging barbs with other posters, I'm not proud of it and have limited myself (recently) to exchanging load data. How about some chrono'ed load data on the 280 AI. I have a lot, but I'm interested in your experience. Please post. Thanks ahead of time. Regards, AIU | |||
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This is direct from P O Ackley 140 IMR IMR-4350 63.0 3,320 145 IMR IMR-4831 61.0 3,120 154 IMR IMR-4831 60.0 2,920 154 IMR IMR-4350 60.0 3,070 175 IMR IMR-4350 58.0 2,850 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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From Handloader issue #195 120 Sierra spitzer IMR IMR-4350 56.0 3,100 130 Speer spitzer IMR IMR-4350 55.0 3,000 140 Nosler Ballistic Tip IMR IMR-4350 53.0 2,900 140 Nosler Ballistic Tip IMR IMR-4831 55.0 3,000 150 Nosler Ballistic Tip IMR IMR-4831 54.0 2,800 150 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-4350 52.5 2,850 154 Hornady Spire Point IMR IMR-4350 52.0 2,800 160 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-4350 51.0 2,750 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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From Nosler with their 140 grain BT 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4350 57.5 3,134 Remarks: maximum load 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4350 55.5 3,022 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4350 53.5 2,911 Remarks: most accurate load tested 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4831 58.5 3,164 Remarks: maximum load; most accurate load tested; most accurate powder tested 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4831 56.5 3,041 Remarks: most accurate powder tested 140 Nosler IMR IMR-4831 54.5 2,920 Remarks: most accurate powder tested 140 Nosler Alliant RL-19 60.0 3,146 Remarks: maximum load 140 Nosler Alliant RL-19 58.0 3,010 Remarks: most accurate load tested 140 Nosler Alliant RL-19 56.0 2,904 140 Nosler Vihtavuori VV-N160 60.0 3,152 Remarks: maximum load 140 Nosler Vihtavuori VV-N160 58.0 3,077 140 Nosler Vihtavuori VV-N160 56.0 3,001 Remarks: most accurate load tested 140 Nosler Accurate XMR-3100 62.0 3,152 Remarks: maximum load 140 Nosler Accurate XMR-3100 60.0 3,040 140 Nosler Accurate XMR-3100 58.0 2,928 Remarks: most accurate load tested 140 Nosler Alliant RL-22 63.0 3,196 Remarks: maximum load; most accurate load tested 140 Nosler Alliant RL-22 61.0 3,070 140 Nosler Alliant RL-22 59.0 2,943 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Also data from Nosler 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-4350 51.0 2,719 Remarks: maximum load; most accurate load tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-4350 49.0 2,622 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-4350 47.0 2,538 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Hodgdon H-4831sc 54.0 2,707 Remarks: maximum load 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Hodgdon H-4831sc 52.0 2,647 Remarks: most accurate load tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Hodgdon H-4831sc 50.0 2,568 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Accurate XMR-3100 57.0 2,763 Remarks: maximum load 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Accurate XMR-3100 55.0 2,678 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Accurate XMR-3100 53.0 2,594 Remarks: most accurate load tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N165 57.0 2,748 Remarks: maximum load 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N165 55.0 2,669 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Vihtavuori VV-N165 53.0 2,591 Remarks: most accurate load tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Alliant RL-22 56.5 2,808 Remarks: maximum load; most accurate load tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Alliant RL-22 54.5 2,714 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer Alliant RL-22 52.5 2,618 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-7828 58.5 2,828 Remarks: maximum load; most accurate powder tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-7828 56.5 2,731 Remarks: most accurate powder tested 175 Nosler Partition Spitzer IMR IMR-7828 54.5 2,644 Remarks: most accurate load tested; most accurate powder tested /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I'm warmed that you like my cartoon.....pictures go a long ways toward communicating with the illiterate. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I essentially agree with PO Ackley's comments that the 280 AI is about perfect bore size for the 7mm caliber, with little to be gained by going to the larger cased magnums. The loads posted here would support that position. Newer powders have not changed this dynamic. At 67 grs of R25, I still have room to spare in my 280 AI, and retumbo and MRP-2 do not improve performance. | |||
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One could make that arguement....but I'd further say that none of the 2.5" magnums except the .358 Norma and .375 Taylor actually are appreciably better than their .30-06 case size counterparts......but of course that's not a popular statement. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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magnum61 how many rounds have fired thru your 270? At a garand qualification match we met an elderly shooter competing for a garand with a Springfield 03, he put all of his shots in the center of the targets with a rifle that had had in excess of 50,000 rounds fired thru it and with only about 6 inches of rifling left near the muzzle, one item was his shooting coat which had 2 emblems on the back :National High Power Rifle Champion in 1950 and 1951.Are you sure that your 270 barrel is shot out ,has a competent gunsmith examined it? | |||
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Ackley Improved.I have a friend who converted his Schultz & Larsen 30-06 to AI and has hunted with it for years prefers it to mag cartridges. | |||
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scr83jp, I have a '06 AI and I like it. My best load is ~70grs. of Re25 with 180 NBT. With 26" barrel. It chronos at ~3100 fps. Enough for North America. | |||
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Ackley Improved User, You must be mistaken about that 3100 fps velocity. Vapodog says that is not within the realm of possibility and when it comes to Ackley Improved cartridges or dog training that vapodoggie has his poop in a group! Jim 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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Don't think so JW - that is, unless Dr. Oehler hasn't a clue about chronographs. | |||
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I've heard this on a few other posts, but why do some guys think there is going to be factory ammo comming out for the 280 AI soon? Is it because of the Nosler Custom Rifle in the 280AI? -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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I see jimmy is back and has "ignored" the question concerning Pressure. Anyone care to speculate on "Why" that is so? | |||
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Hey Hot Core, I didn't figure it would take long before you felt a pull on your chain. What question about pressure? I didn't ask a question about pressure! Did you ask a question about pressure? You must be talking about some arbitrary figure that some organization puts on different cartridges because they have been around for awhile. I'll bet you leave the "DO NOT REMOVE" tags on your mattress and throw away a gallon of milk because the "SELL BY" date has come and gone don't you? If somebody went to the trouble of writing it down it must be the absolute truth and is not to be violated,right? Your naivete is astounding. 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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If they do the brass will be horribly expensive. Unless they have figured how to (economically)manufacture cases with the 40* shoulder. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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I can only assume you're referring to SAAMI and for your enlightenment here's how it works.....first the pressure levels are not set by SAAMI....they are set by manufacturers and reported to SAAMI and SAAMI is nothing more than a holding house of information for that information. Example: Hornady and Ruger get together to develope a new round.....the 204 Ruger. Ruger tells Hornady what pressure their rifle is capable of holding (Same as Marlin with the 450 Marlin) and Hornady develops a load using their laboratory equipment that achieves the maximum performance within the limits set to them by their customer....in this case Ruger...(and Marlin in the case of the 450) If later Federal (for example) wants to make ammo for the 204 Ruger then they can get the pressure and dimension data from SAAMI. It's that simple. Thge first guy that developes a cartridge and reports it to SAAMI sets the criteria. In this manner if someone developes a gun that can hold better pressures than Ruger's they must develope a different cartridge because the pressure level has been set by ruger and recorded in SAAMI and no one will mass produce ammo with greater pressures than the SAAMI specs. This system has worked well for a very long time and is the reason 45-70 rounds for guns like Marlin's lever action cannot be bought from the big ammo makers. The lawyers would have a field day. This too is the reason handloaders can do so well with some rounds as the SAAMI pressures have been set lower to accommodate the first guns made for the round. Among them are the .257 Roberts, the 30-06, the 280 Remington, the 7 X 57 Mauser, the 8 x 57 Mauser and a host of others. SAAMI specs are neither arbitrary nor their own. They are engineered data developed by gun makers. If there's naivete showing here it's not on the part of Hot Core. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles I need some info on replacing a barrel with an Ackley.
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