The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles I need some info on replacing a barrel with an Ackley.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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My 270 win Barrel is shot and I'm thinking of a 280 Ackley or even a Gibbs configuration but I have no clue where to start. I need some advice from those who know these rounds. I already have a 300 win mag and Id like a smaller back up deer rifle and even an elk rifle if it needs to be. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | ||
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try www.z-hat.com | |||
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Hey Magnum61, It has been a lot of years since I messed with Wildcats and I just got tired of the hassle. But, I'm not saying that to discourage you, just to let you know there are a lot of additional steps involved in the Cartridge selection and Case Prep. I'd recommend you research the "Load Data" available for the Wildcat you are considering. Whatever the MAX Velocity happens to be that you locate for it during the search, subtract 200fps from it and figure that is what you will get. If you end up with more that is fine, but a lot of folks get very disappointed with reality. Next research how many "additional" steps are required to actually Form the Cases from existing - easy to find - standard Cases. Do you need to Anneal first, Expand the Neck or Reduce it, any mid-forming Annealing necessary, Neck Turning and Fire Forming options? Is there a special set of Case Forming Dies necessary, or can you just use a regular 2-die Wildcat Set? Are special Powders required to get the optimum performance from the Wildcat? Is there lots of Load Data available, or do you have to Develop your own Load info as you begin loading for it. You absolutely positively for sure will need to understand CHE/PRE before you get the Wildcat and begin trying to load for it. If you already understand CHE/PRE you will know why this is important. The HSGS devices are even more worthless on a Wildcat than a standard cartridge. Once you have the Cartridge selected, go on and buy Dies for it. Just locating the Dies you want can occasionally be difficult. And lay in 500-1000 cases from the same Lot that you will use to Reform into the Cartridge you want. You will need to decide on how you want the Chamber "Neck" cut in the barrel. Do you want to Turn Necks, or not? This also depends to some degree on whether you Expand the Case necks or Reduce them and on the dimensions of the Cases you buy. Rate of Twist can either make the barrel "faster" with light-for-caliber bullets, a standard twist for multiple bullet weights, or a tighter twist for heavy-for-caliber bullets. Which profile do you want for the barrel, length, crown shape and do you want Stainless or Rusting Blue? You need to decide on how much work you want done to the Receiver and Trigger. Do you want it Blueprinted or just screw the barrel into it the way it is now? Do you want the old action and new barrel "Coated" with a protective finish? Do you want the Barrel Installer to put an excellent Synthetic Stock on it or Termite Food? Now send the rifle off for the Rebarrel and have them return a Chamber Cast with the completed rifle. If you don't know why this is a good idea, it would benefit you to do a bit of research on that issue as well. If they will not provide a Chamber Cast, don't use them. While the rifle is getting the barrel replaced, you can begin doing some of the Prep work on the Cases. You can go on and Square the Primer Pockets and Deburr the Flash Holes. And you can lay in a supply of El Cheapo Bullets to do the Fire Forming with. Lot sof folks try to use the old Cornmeal or Toilet Paper over a small charge of Pistol Powder. I prefer actually using an inexpensive bullet and a Load suitable for a Standard Cartridge on the Low end. That should get you started. Best of luck to you on the project. | |||
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Go to any number of websites and look at reloading data for the 280 Remington and the 7 MM Rem Mag.....adjust the two with 25'/sec per inch for differences in barrel length and then see what you actually get in velocity difference between the two. Now if you are like me you will see that the real difference between the 280 and the 7MM Mag is about 200 '/sec.....that's all.....so don't tell me....just tell yourself.....what advantage do you actually think you're going to get with the AI version of the 280 given that it's powder increase is a tiny fraction of the increase in going to the magnum case. Ackley never would have made it in the banking industry.....the truth in lending law would have killed him. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I would tend to stay away from AI cases in rifles for hunting larger game. The reason is they have a tendency to not feed well with that 40 degree shoulder. I don't really care much if a Prairie Dog gets away. But a nice Game animal is another story. | |||
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I have three rifles with the so called improved chambers and I am stuck with them for one reason or another. Now that I have them and know about them I don't want more of them for sure. On the other hand you should have the fun of fooling around with one as they are good clean fun. Wildcats are way more trouble and I still have one of those. I would not touch a Gibbs cartridge with a ten foot pole but as I said I am stuck with some of that stuff. A improved chamber must be done right with the negative .004" headspace or it will damage the orginal brass. On the other hand the 280 AI has been announced by Nosler as being a SAMMI round and Nosler is supposed to be making brass for it. I doubt that dies will be cheap however but a 7mm RM die set could be used to partial neck size a 280 AI and the seating die should work too. Get what you want. The special stuff will cost more but if you enjoy it what the heck Join the NRA | |||
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The only reason I'm considering the AI or the GIbbs cartridges is becuase I have my 300 win mag and ultimately, I don't go hunting without it. But I wanted something to tinker with this rifle. It was given to me and it has this beautiful wood stock on it and I figured since it would probubly see the woods quite a bit less frequently than my stainless 300. So, I figured I could make it even more unique. I honestly want a Gibbs round, just because Rocky Gibbs is from Idaho, from what I have heard, and I thought I would stay with the Northwest spirit where more is always better. I have never heard of a 7mm Gibbs but I sure know that the 270 Gibbs is ready to chamber in a few gunsmith shops. The other reason I'm considering the AI type rounds is because this rifle is already set-up to handle the 06' type brass even though I would be happy with 270 WSM ina heart beat. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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The "Ackleys" are fun to play with, easy to fireform AND they allow for exceptional case life even when loaded to max pressure. Load a 280 to 63,000 PSI (7mag/270Win pressure) and you will see even less difference between the 7 Mag and 280. The Ackley Improved version will give you better case life, and perhaps 25-50 fps more than the standard loaded to the same pressure. You should be able to get about 3200 fps with a 140 grain bullet from a 24" barrell. All of the "improvements" such as reduced case taper and sharper shoulder angle are incorperated in most modern case designs. Shoulder angles are held to 35 degrees in modern case design because it is dificult to form sharper angles without fire-forming. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Trust me when I say I'm not out to make any bad calls on the AI's! I've been kicking a 6.5 x 55AI around for a couple of months and well the extra cost of dies and extra powder it will consume for the end factor are just not worth the effort. We did build a 280AI and while it was not that difficult to get any stuff for we just could not get the thing to shoot! we took the barrel off set it back to a standard 280 and the thing shot great! why? I couldn't tell you! but this is not the first word about the 280AI not being a real accurate round that I have heard. If you want something that is different but not so much as to cost you a fortune take a look at the 6.5-06, have the chamber cut so you can use the 270 brass will also make you a little more happy, you will still have enough bullet weight and the 6.5mm bullets are just so underated it's crazy. Later, Kirk | |||
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Both the 280 AI and 7mm Gibbs are based on the 30-06 cartridge platform. As noted here by many, they can be a PIA to form and costly to setup for. However, once you have processed 200 cases, you should be set for a lifetime of use for one of these. The gains may be negligible, but so what. If you want something different and want to spend a little extra time and a few bucks more for dies, then by all means do so. That's what makes this fun. I have an '03 in 7 Gibbs, that needs stocking and I will be right in there with you. There is one consideration that is important. Wildcat chambered guns have a limited market appeal, so if you aren't the type that keeps them, bear that in mind. It will be a lot easier to sell a 7x57 or 280 Rem than a 280 AI or 7mm Gibs. Thaine "Begging hands and bleeding hearts will always cry out for more..." Ayn Rand "Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here, we might as well dance" Jeanne C. Stein | |||
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I'm sure there'll be more than a few guys who will disagree, but IMO, most wildcats aren't worth the trouble. I've played with them over the years and I'm down to one wildcat, that being the K-Hornet. I do think it's one of the better 'cats out there. The only real reason I have it is because I got a great deal on the rifle, dies, and a whole bunch of brass. | |||
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As you see by the responds not all are in favor of the Ackley case for one reason or another. I have very good luck with my Ackley rifles as to gains in velocity and case life. I have never done a 280AI but have done a 7x57AI velocity with bullets up to 160 velocity was pretty close to 7 mag using 10grs of powder less. I've always questioned the claims on the 280AI as comparing velocity to a 7mag so later this summer I'm having one build. Kind of hoping for over 3000fps with a 160 gr bullet. I'm also going to do a switch barrel in 30-06AI for that rifle just in case. One of the things that changed my mind on the 280AI, I was forming some 280 cases to use in a 338-270HGT and that 280 case is pretty tough formed alot better than the 270 case. Just my .02 VFW | |||
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The 280 Gibbs will give you almost the same powder capacity as the 7mm WSM. And with equal length barrels and equivalent pressures, the Gibbs will give up very little velocity to the WSM. The dies are available from several makers for the AI or the Gibbs, though they do tend to be a bit more costly. That cost will need to be considered as part of the project. I have owned and reloaded extensively for a 30-06AI, but never for the Gibbs. But if I were to start reloading for a 280 Gibbs, I would begin with 30-06 brass Simply neck the 30-06 brass down in the 280 Gibbs sizer, so that the bolt will just close (crush fit) on the empty case. I would then charge the case with a maximum load of H4831 or IMR4831 as listed for the 280 or the 280 AI with a 140gr to 160gr bullet, from a reputable reloading manual. Once you have the 30-06 brass fireformed to the 280 Gibbs chamber, then the fun of load developement begins. Start with the top loads listed for the 280 Rem, use the slower powders for the application, such as the 4831's, and RL22. And work it up to a decent velocity, within sane pressure levels. I think the Gibbs would be a great deal of fun and very interesting to load for. Good Luck with the project. Idaho Shooter | |||
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The Gibbs cartridges are very difficult to form. If you read more about Rocky Gibbs you might have reservations. Rocky loaded his cartridges using military brass to unproven results. Along the way Gibbs did form brass with a hydraulic system for customers and I have seen formed Gibbs brass for sale on the net. I happen to have an old JC Higgins 06's rechambered to the AI version. This one was done right and shoots factory loads and new 06 brass with no problems. I picked up about 75 fps and lost about $300 in value counting the resale value of the gun and the dies etc. An improved chamber would be cool and fun and be a lot less trouble than a Gibbs type wildcat. I don't think that a 7mm Gibbs would come very close to a 7mm WSM in case capacity. Join the NRA | |||
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Magnum61, Everytime this subject comes up the Ackley bashers surface, I presently own 6 rifles chambered for Ackley Improved cartridges and while some are more improved than others(velocity wise) brass life is a big plus. Of the 6, only one doesn't feed as well as it could. The rifle is a 700 Remington LA(no surprise) chambered in 22/250AI with zero work done done to the rails and no magazine block either, still has the 30/06 follower in it as well. The other 5 feed like they were made for AI's. A lot of people make a big production out of fireforming and sit at the bench blazing away in order to form cases. I have a different approach, after seeing the accuracy acheived while fireforming(1/2" or less), I stopped right there and started hunting. Again, fireforming doesn't need to be a separate operation as some would lead you to believe! Loading for an Ackley cartridge is no more difficult than loading a standard case! Never lost a case either, no annealing needed on new cases. No neck turning either, provided a little thought goes into choosing the proper reamer size. If your rifle loses accuracy going from a standard case to an Ackley Improved, you need a different Gun plumber! My advice would be to go for it. Stepchild One more thing, RCBS and Redding offer dies in all of the popular Ackley chamberings, available from many sources, just a phone call away. NRA Life Member | |||
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I have built quite a few Ackley Improved rifles, from 223 to 300 Win. The 3 best rounds, in my book, are the 250-3000 AI, 22-250 AI, and the 280 Rem. AI. Well worth the conversion cost and set up. | |||
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Would those who accuse others of "bashing" a cartridge please state where the case life is better. Be very specific in where the case life is better. Join the NRA | |||
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A while back a generous guy put an 06', 06' Ackley, and a 30 gibbs next each other from his cartridge collection and took a pictures for me to show to a few guys. It would be nice for someone to do the same with a 270 win, 270 Ackley, 270 Gibbs, 280 Rem, 280 Ackley, a 7mm Gibbs and a 7mm WSM. Just to see the difference and maybe spark a little more conversation. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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Magnum 61, I have taken the liberty of editing Hotcores post and removing all the rhetoric and Ackley bashing bullshit and condensed it down to what is factual and relevant to your project. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core: Best of luck to you on the project. If you want a wildcat to play with, pick the one of your choice and have a ball. I have several Ackleys and will do more in the future as my budget allows. Fireforming an Ackley is no more complicated than taking the parent cartridge and shooting it in the improved chamber and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Feeding has never been an issue in any of mine. Granted some of the velocity gains are dismal at best and not the reason for going Ackley. In all instances the case longevity makes it a worthwhile endeavor. If you want to build a 280 A.I. for a back-up rifle to your 300 W.M. you should by all means do so but don't be surprised when the 300 becomes the "back-up" I have never fooled with any Gibbs cartridges and I understand that some of them can be a real bitch to form but that is not the case with any of the Ackley's. Anyone that tells you another story has never loaded for an Ackley and doesn't have a clue as to what's required. There are great long procedures that can be used to form cases from other cases and at one time some of them were neccessary. That is not the case today with all the excellent brass that is readily available to the handloader. I prefer Lapua brass and sometimes need to go to some pretty involved steps to end up with what I want but it is not required. I don't have to start with a 243 or 308 to end up with 250 A.I. but I do if I want Lapua brass. Sometimes the results are worth the effort and for me that's one of them. The manufacturers have standardized several over the years and taken all the work out of them. The 25/06, 257 Roberts and the 22/250 are some that come to mind. The 280 is another and if you want an improved version---do it! Jim 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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The case doesn't stretch as much with the 40 degree shoulder and you know it Don. Your hero Lisle Kilbourn proved that with the 22 K-Hornet! And nobody accused you of bashing a cartridge. You bash St. Ackley you unclean heathen! 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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What is the big deal about fireforming a Gibbs compared to the Ackely and I have hard time seeing that the Ackley is in the same ball-park for velocity than the Gibbs is, can someone explain this.  -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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Hey Jim, You any relation to bradly or chucky? Apparently your comprehension of the written word is about as poor as their lack of knowledge concerning firearms in general. If you go back to my original post, I DID NOT mention ANY specific Wildcat. Why you would surmise that I was bashing Mr. Ackley is beyond comprehension - are you really that illiterate? Of all the people on the Board, I'm the only one that has ever stood up to the old fool "howl's" trashing of Mr. Ackley. I did the same thing on another Board and the whiners got all upset. So, you are way off base if you think I'm bashing Mr. Ackley or Mr. Gibbs. Far from it. You mention firing a Standard 280Rem in the Ackley chamber and having no problem. If it is cut correctly, that can be true, but it also can be a problem - depending on the specific factory ammo. He had also mentioned the Gibbs and it is obvious you know so little about them you just think you can drop a Standard cartridge in that chamber and shoot it to Fire Form as well, or I feel sure you would have mentioned it. But of course, your ignorance is showing there. The information I provided about tracking down the Forming Dies is exactly what he needs to do if he goes the Gibbs route. I simply explained why Wildcats can be a problem and how to potentially avoid those problems from first-hand experience. Something you obviously have in limited supply. | |||
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Good one Jim. Unclean heathen, well I could defend that but I am more comfortable with gun talk. All in good humor though. My puter has a problem showing the little smiles or I would have used one. What exact part of the case stretches more or less? The K-Hornet only increases case capacity. It has the same headspace problems that the 300 H&H has or other similar brass. Kilbourn did the K chambers to make money and provide increased case capacity. Join the NRA | |||
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Here is some data with my 280 AI (26" barrel) chronoed with Oehler. I get best results with Re25. Max is 67 grs. ~3250 fps using a sundry of 150 gr. bullets. PSI ~65,000 according to QL. NBTs are very accurate, but so are the NParts. R25… 58.0 150 SierraMatBT 2622 R25… 59.0 150 SierraMatBT 2696 R25… 60.0 150 SierraMatBT 2747 R25… 61.0 150 SierraMatBT 2805 R25… 62.0 150 SierraMatBT 2863 R25… 63.0 150 SierraMatBT 2918 R25… 64.0 150 SierraMatBT 3000 R25… 65.0 150 SierraMatBT 3052 R25… 66.0 150 SierraMatBT 3113 R25… 66.0 150 NBT (HVA) 3143 R25… 66.0 150 NBT 3256 R25… 66.0 150 NBT 3208 R25… 66.0 150 SwiftSir 3210 (Max for Swift) R25… 66.5 150 NBT 3188/3297 Good pockets R25… 67.0 150 SierraMatBT 3200 CCI-BR R25… 67.0 150 NFB 3263/3279 Mag Primer R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3197 Very accurate/Mag Pri./Norma Brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3273/3313 Mag Pri./R-P brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3157 CCI-BR Pri./Norma Brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT/98oF 3218 CCI-BR Pri./Norma Brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3220 Mag Pri./Lapua Brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3245 HVA Aver/ CCI/R-P Brass R25… 67.0 150 NBT 3254 HVA Aver/ CCI/R-P Brass | |||
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If you are thinking about a Gibbs, why not the 30Gibbs? It's advantage is it makes it that much easier to squeeze just a bit more RL22 into the case behind a 165gr or 180gr bullet, while making it essentially impossible to put too much RL22 back there.... a 165gr Nosler partition at 3150fps will get any animals undivided attention... The one advantage of the 280AI is that dies (from redding) aren't a special order or even a "group D" (like RCBS) item, 280Rem-AI are a stock item literally "on the shelf" at cabela's But is it really worth all that much over a 280REM? it's for you to decide if the wildcat is worth the aggrevation. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Hey Jim, You any relation to bradly or chucky? I don't know who Bradly or Chucky are. "Apparently your comprehension of the written word is about as poor as their lack of knowledge concerning firearms in general" I understand the written word just fine and can readily tell the difference between fact and fiction. "If you go back to my original post, I DID NOT mention ANY specific Wildcat. Why you would surmise that I was bashing Mr. Ackley is beyond comprehension - are you really that illiterate?" If you were not bashing Ackley I stand corrected and I can see where lots of things are beyond your comprehension. "Of all the people on the Board, I'm the only one that has ever stood up to the old fool "howl's" trashing of Mr. Ackley. I did the same thing on another Board and the whiners got all upset" Again I stand corrected. "So, you are way off base if you think I'm bashing Mr. Ackley or Mr. Gibbs. Far from it" One more time. "You mention firing a Standard 280Rem in the Ackley chamber and having no problem. If it is cut correctly, that can be true, but it also can be a problem - depending on the specific factory ammo" Well no shit genius. If the chamber is cut correctly there is no problem. I cut mine correctly so that the factory ammo of choice fits. "He had also mentioned the Gibbs and it is obvious you know so little about them you just think you can drop a Standard cartridge in that chamber and shoot it to Fire Form as well, or I feel sure you would have mentioned it. But of course, your ignorance is showing there. The information I provided about tracking down the Forming Dies is exactly what he needs to do if he goes the Gibbs route" If you could comprehend the written word you would have noticed that I stated that I had never fooled with any of the Gibbs line. That means I don't know shit from Shinola when it comes to "Gibbs" "I simply explained why Wildcats can be a problem and how to potentially avoid those problems from first-hand experience. Something you obviously have in limited supply" I have been loading since the early 60s and a great deal of that has been with wildcats. I would call that a vast amount of first-hand experience. I am sure a cranky old bastard like you will call it something else. I've seen you put some excellent responses on here over the years but for pete's sake Magnum61 only asked about opinions on the 280 Ackley, not everything under the sun that could possibly go wrong and the PRE/CHE and the YIN/YANG the HSGS and the lmnopq. Maybe I got a little long winded to but at least I was on the subject. And just for your edification-No I am not illiterate. 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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Hello Magnum 61 Lots of sound advise here one way or the other, but would suggest that you give one of the guys at Krieger or Douglas a call and discuss with them about the pros and cons. Have dealt with both for years and they are very well informed on most firearm topics and may offer sage advise on your inquiry. Believe both of their web sites will show the various versions of the caliber you are thinking of and could be of help to you. Just a suggestion. | |||
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99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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The big deal is that you can go down to any Walmart, buy 280 Rem ammo and shoot it in your 280AI. (if it was chambered properly) You can hunt with this factory ammo, with insignificant losses in accuracy and velocity, versus your handloads in the improved cases. This might be a consideration if you go out of town on a hunt and leave all your ammo at home????? When you eject that fired factory round from your rifle, you will have a perfectly fireformed AI case in your hand. Things are slightly more complicated with the Gibbs version of the cartridge. You can see that the entire shoulder is moved forward on the Gibbs case in your photo. Actually, that is what makes the cartridge attractive to me and I assume you also. The relocated shoulder allows the case to hold quite a bit more powder. It also significantly changes headspace dimensions. A factory loaded cartridge can not be fired in the Gibbs chamber as it has excessive headspace in that chamber. Hence my earlier suggestion that you use cases from a larger caliber and neck them down to form a "false shoulder". This will give a place for the brass to headspace against in the Gibbs chamber. With this procedure there is no need for messy hydraulic forming dies. The brass will fireform quite nicely to the Gibbs chamber. Idaho Shooter | |||
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It is not only the 40 degree shoulder that reduces "case stretch" but the reduction of taper in the case body itself. My only experience with "Ackley Improved" cartridges is the 8mm-06 Ackley Improved. This particular cartridge was my first experience with reloading centerfire rifle cartridges so I learned a lot in a hurry. I learned a little fire forming trick from Harry McGowen, that is to leave case lube on the case when fire forming. This eliminates stretch in the fire forming process. Indeed, this particular trick yields a fire formed case about .040" shoter than what one started with. I have reloaded cases fireformed thus for 12-15 loading and have never had to "trim" to length before discarding cases due to loose primer pockets. The reduced taper in the case and 40 degree shoulder DO diminish case stretching over the entire case body. I have never had ANY evidence of "incipient head seperation" with my thus formed Ackley Improved cases either. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Hey jimmy, I can totally agree with you on that. It appears your only real first-hand experience is in spewing vulgarity. Speaks volumes for your parentage. | |||
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Hey Hot Core, Why don't you try an aeronautical intercourse with a motivating piece of pastry? If you ever get a chance stop by the range here in Prescott, AZ and I'll teach you about my parentage you petty little jerk. "Jimmy" 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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And this is coming from a MAN who has much more experience with rifles than the majority posting here. Eddie, another one that needs to be on that list is the .257AI, in my opinion. Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Gary, I thought you were a bigger man than that! Stepchild NRA Life Member | |||
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Why does every intelligent discussion turn into name calling? Moderators? Jason | |||
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In my experiance the case length increase comes primarily from the neck sizing part of case sizing with the expanding button being the major cause of that. Also some case length growth comes from FL sizing the case body as when the die forces the case back to a smaller diameter some metal is pushed forward. As to metal flowing around a shoulder in any significant amount I call that a rumor. Join the NRA | |||
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I own 3 AI's and can say that the case life IS better. here is why, in case it has not been deduced from the previous posts;.... the 40* shoulder and reduced taper grip the chamber walls better and disallow the flow of brass over that sharp of an angle on the shoulder. Not to say it doesn't still stretch, but it stretches far less. You really wan't to see how much it affects the growth, run a 220swift and a 220swift AI next to each other with max loads for about 8-10rnds and re-measure. You will then know the benefit of the AI shoulder. Difficulty is inevitable Misery is optional | |||
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My 280AI was done right. It shoots very small groups. I like a longer neck, so I would opt for the AI over the Gibbs. IMO the 280AI is a fantastic round. My F/F loads shot well under 1/2. Factory ammo shoots about the same. It feeds and ejects like butter. My 20-222Imp, 17Ackley Hornet my 17-222Imp, all feed and eject the same perfect. I just had a 338-06AI done (got a great deal on the reamer). I got about a 5% increase on the powder cap and velocity with my 280AI. You results may vary. Your money spend it how you wish. a 280AI is not a bad choice. Mr Harren will build that rifle if you need a wrench. He is probably going to get the call for a switch barrel project I got in the works (6mm-250Ai and a 260AI). I do not look at a Ackley as a wildcat. You can go to the store and feed it facotry ammo if it was headspaced correctly. The dies are about $40 bucks more. I have a few wildcats that are time consuming to make brass for, but that is half the fun. My 280 got feed a few facotry rounds to see if it would form facotry stuff and to make dummies so I did not have to use up my Norma brass. | |||
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What type of performance should I expect from a 280 AI with a 24-26" barrel? I'm thinking of staying in the 140-150gr range because of my 300 win mag I have, shooting 180's+. Also, would a 270 AI be a consideration or is the 280 AI just that much better? -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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Regardless of what any of the shithouse experts on this web site will tell you. Ackley Improved is a waste of fucking time. Ackley Improved cartridges had a purpose at one time,before the advent of magnums that we have today. P.O also added a shitload of blue sky to most of his velocity figures. At the time,nobody had wide spread access to Chronies to disprove his bullshit. You owe it to yourself to read P.O's two volume edition of cartridges. His stories about killing power etc. shows he also probably still believed in santa claus and the easter bunny. If you want 7mag velocities,buy a 7mag. I've yet to see a 280AI that will deliver the velocity most of the AI crowd claims. Which is another problem with AI cartridges. They don't show pressure signs as readily as other standard case configurations and when they do its usually in the form of blown cases or stuck bolts. I'd venture to say you'd be lucky to get 100 fps safely with the AI over the standard .280rem. You could take the .280 rem in a 24 or 26 inch barrel with a tight chamber and get the same velocity increase,without all the fireforming bullshit and wondering exactly what pressures you're getting. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles I need some info on replacing a barrel with an Ackley.
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