i am looking into getting a "poor mans 318 westley richards" i am debating between the 33-06, 338ai and 338 hawk, i like heavier bullets at moderate speeds (250 gr @ 2500 fps) and the ability to do 400 yard plinking at the range with lighter stuff. o.k., i am in my bunker now, let'r rip

boom stick,

I had a 338-06 Ackley improved for awhile and liked it fairly well. Were I to do it again, I would opt for the std 338-'06. Brass is easily made from 30-06 brass by necking up to 338 or from 35 Whelen brass by necking down. Properly headstamped brass is available from Weatherby. I have no familiarity with the Hawk round. The Ackley round offers little or no improvement in performance...at least not on my Chrony!

If you want a poor mans then go with the standard. You can even get factory loads. The dies are cheap for it compared to the other two!

There is no reason to go beyond the std. .338-06 IMO. Now there is even factory headstamped brass for it from Norma. 250gr bullets @ 2450fps is easily done from a 22"-23" bbl. Having said that, the cost for any of them is the same as far as the bbl. Dies will be a little cheaper, but so what. I went thru this when I made my .260ai. There really isn't eonough diff., so what ever cycles your bolt my friend.

Agreed, my take is if the standard isn't enough, then just go to the .338 Win Mag. I'm content with the .338-06 but if I wanted more, I wouldn't fool around with the AI, I'd move straight up to the Win Mag.

There must be a conspiracy here......everyone agreeing!!!!!

And I, too, agree.....the way to go is the standard .338-06. If you need more you need a .375 H&H!!!!!

quote:

There must be a conspiracy here......

Can I get in on the vast right-wing conspiracy as well?

Yep, like the others, I have a "standard" 338-06, and don't feel the need for any extra hassles for minimal gain.

std .338-06 will do the 2500 fps with the 250's and that's within 150-200 fps of the .338 WM.

I would go with the 30-06 Springfield. It will shoot heavier bullets and for plinking at 400 yds it will run away from a 338 anything.

Now this is the common sense approach.

On the otherhand ask about reboring a Spartan side by side to 338 rimmed something.

What about shooting a 250 grain/.375 bullet at 2700 fps with 59 grains of powder from an '06 case? The .375 Scovill (Hawk) will give you that. The larger dia bullet makes an impression on game animals. Cases are easy to make out of 35 Whelen brass.

Snapper

the 375 hawk does look yummy on paper...

Quite wasting time, money, and playing games, get serious and get a .338 Win. and you can load it down to any to the rest, or leave it as is and out perform the others..If anyone tells you the recoil is lighter then I have to disagree, they all recoil about the same, they all use the same length action...

I went that route many moons ago, and finally settled on the std .338 Win. Magnum, spent a lot of time and money getting the perfect .33 cal rifle and it was there in front of me all the time....The .338 Win. was a final decision I have never regretted...I shoot 210 Noslers at 3005 FPS and 300 gr. Woodleighs at 2400 FPS and an ocassional 250 gr. Nosler at 2700 FPS..

quote:

boom stick: the 375 hawk does look yummy on paper

Me too. I was looking into a 338-06 but the Hawk looks more interesting and versatile.

I sold my 338 Win Mag to build the 375 Scovill and would do it again today! In fact I did when my daughter wouldn't give mine back after shooting a Black Bear, several Antelope and a couple of Mule deer with my gun in 2003.

Snapper

Get a regular .338 Win. Mag. and load it to 2500 fps. with 250s. This is easy to do......

AD

Until I reloaded for the 338-06 I was a BIG 338 Win Mag fan but the necked up '06 is really the best of all big game rounds for North American hunting. Since it was long a wildcat before A-square, the reloading data for it is justifiably conservative held to 60,000 psi but in a modern bolt rifle it is a 65,000 psi round all the way. In this configuration, the 250 grainers do 2612 fps and the 180 grain Nosler Bts do over 3000 fps. Woodleigh or Hawk 300s do over 2300 fps boasting a sectional density of .375. If you want one or two less in the magazine and 30% more recoil, you can buy 100 to 150 fps more from the 338 Win Mag and not see ANY difference in the field.

Energies match the 300 Win Mag and penetration is better than the 375 H&H.

The worst kind of foolishness is going down in flames for the sake of a theory. Try finding replacment ammo for that chambering in Africa (or Soccoro, NM, or Burns, OR), and see how well you think of it then. If the only source of resupply is your reloading bench back home, be it 500 or 10,000 miles away, you've just created for yourself a logistical nightmare (read brainfart), and unnecessarily. There is no hunting chore of any sort, anywhere in the world, that cannot be perfectly carried out with standard factory cartridges. All wildcats do is create problems, and usually in the misguided name of "efficiency".

There's nothing "efficient" about burning powder and wasting bullets fire-forming cases, and there's nothing "efficient" about risking expensive hunts to cartridges that can only be obtained back home.

The .338 Win. Mag. will do all that any .338-06 wildcat will do, and then some, plus it's AVAILABLE, and besides the resale value of rifles in wildcat chamberings is typically abysmal..........

AD

Gee Allen, sounds like a trip through your gun safe would be fairly boring.

I totally agree with the risk of using a wildcat on an expensive and remote hunt.

But,,,,

Boom Stick din't include that information in his original question. We don't know if he is going to TimBucToo (sp) or popping a deer off of his vacation cabin's deck 25 miles from home now do we?

Personally, I'd have a wildcat or too just 'cause which is reason enough for us "loonies" but when it gets to a hunt where the risks are higher, I agree, go with the standard rifle and ammo.

Wildcats in my stable - 338-08 and 338-06 (overlap? ubetcha!)

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
The worst kind of foolishness is going down in flames for the sake of a theory. Try finding replacment ammo for that chambering in Africa (or Soccoro, NM, or Burns, OR), and see how well you think of it then. If the only source of resupply is your reloading bench back home, be it 500 or 10,000 miles away, you've just created for yourself a logistical nightmare (read brainfart), and unnecessarily. There is no hunting chore of any sort, anywhere in the world, that cannot be perfectly carried out with standard factory cartridges. All wildcats do is create problems, and usually in the misguided name of "efficiency".

There's nothing "efficient" about burning powder and wasting bullets fire-forming cases, and there's nothing "efficient" about risking expensive hunts to cartridges that can only be obtained back home.

The .338 Win. Mag. will do all that any .338-06 wildcat will do, and then some, plus it's AVAILABLE, and besides the resale value of rifles in wildcat chamberings is typically abysmal..........

AD

OUCH, I just hate it when people tell the truth and dash others ideas on the rocks of reality. This is of course assuming that one is building a wildcat based on the assumption that there's some performance criteria involved and often this is frigthteningly true.

There are other rerasons however to build a wildcat and among them is the original reason for the .35 Whelen. It was a poor man's .375 and the best way to get anything close to the punch of the .375 in a standard action.

Other reasons are the .375 Tayler.....another way to reach .375 performance without the long action.

I once built a 6 X 45 for legal reasons....the law in Minnesota required a minimum of .23 caliber for deer hunting so I necked up the .223 case to achieve it and was able to achieve a wonderfully light deer rifle and don't tell me the rifle wasn't a good deer killer.....several bucks can not testify to this fact because they are just plane dead!!!

To Me the real reason for a .338-06 is to rebore the barrel of a M-70 FWT rifle to .338 and have a near-.338 Magnum performer in a very lightweight rifle. Yup, the performance falls short of the .338 Mag but it's purely not needed anyway.....there's still plenty of punch in the .338-06 for anything that wants to get into my tent anywhere in North America and Africa as well.

As to the "suppose you leave your ammo home" argument.....that's a violin that has been played way to many times and just don't have any just listening value to it anymore. There's a lot of cartridges that are hard to find in small towns.....such as the .300 H&H, the 7 X 61 S&H, the .358 Norma, .378 & .340 WBY, and even the .280 Rem.

For those wanting to build a wildcat it's simply a matter of knowing what your doing.....understanding that the benefit is very likely not to be found in terminal performance but some other carrying or legal feature.

IMO for those that want a scabbard worthy, light carrying, easy handling rifle with 22" or 24" barrel the .338-06 can offer them a benefit over the heavier .338 Magnum. The loss of velocity is well compensated in carrying advantages and leaving the ammo home leaves you in the same boat as using the .340 Wby.....and no one would ever play the "leave home" violin over the choice of a .340 WBY.

Everything Allen says is true.

Without a doubt you stand a 100 times better chance of finding .338 WM ammo than .338-06. But, I've been in situations where you couldn't even find .30-06 or .30-30 ammo and they are everywhere in the US until you need them. Best just not to loose yours.

I think everyone agrees that the .338WM is the more pwerful cartridge compared to any of the -06 based .338's. So, what? If the shooter has determined that they don't need that extra power why would they want to load down the .338WM when they could simply load the .338-06 or similar chambering to its normal state?

Again, without a doubt, the most practical choice is the .338 WM. It is a stellar cartridge, one of the best IMHO but it's not for everyone.

If we only looked @ performance & ammo availability, then all anyone needs to hunt the world over is a .30-06 & a .375h&h. Now how boring would that be.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
If we only looked @ performance & ammo availability, then all anyone needs to hunt the world over is a .30-06 & a .375h&h. Now how boring would that be.

I agree Fred, I've been looking at the 375 Hawk/Scovill myself. Don't need it but it might be fun to play around with.

quote:

Originally posted by Elkslayer:
Gee Allen, sounds like a trip through your gun safe would be fairly boring.

I totally agree with the risk of using a wildcat on an expensive and remote hunt.

But,,,,

Boom Stick din't include that information in his original question. We don't know if he is going to TimBucToo (sp) or popping a deer off of his vacation cabin's deck 25 miles from home now do we?

Personally, I'd have a wildcat or too just 'cause which is reason enough for us "loonies" but when it gets to a hunt where the risks are higher, I agree, go with the standard rifle and ammo.

Wildcats in my stable - 338-08 and 338-06 (overlap? ubetcha!)

i was thinking north america and reloading

Although I think the 338 Win mag is a good choice, the 338-06 comments are mostly inaccureate:

1. It does not need fire forming. Just expand any 'o6 neck to .338 and you are done.

2. When traveling, a 338-06 owner can just keep a Lee hand press and 338-06 seating die and bullet puller die in his kit. Any factory 30-06 ammo in 180 grain load will accept 225 gr Speers without neck expansion due to the boat tail design. The factory charge weights will give 50 to 100 fps less than the '06 180 grainers. Work up these loads at home first, starting with .338 180s and 200s or 210s first to account for differences in chambers and throats.

quote:

I find that it is really easy to talk yourself into buying or building rifles when you are at home, bored stiff, but, when you are in the field, the supposed advantages of your "dream" rig(s) end up being mostly wishful thinking.

quote:

The worst kind of foolishness is going down in flames for the sake of a theory. Try finding replacment ammo for that chambering in Africa (or Soccoro, NM, or Burns, OR), and see how well you think of it then. If the only source of resupply is your reloading bench back home, be it 500 or 10,000 miles away, you've just created for yourself a logistical nightmare (read brainfart), and unnecessarily. There is no hunting chore of any sort, anywhere in the world, that cannot be perfectly carried out with standard factory cartridges. All wildcats do is create problems, and usually in the misguided name of "efficiency"..[/

.

This is pretty solid advice. I hunt and use a wildcat 30-338 and if I was planning an away hunt IE: Alaska/Africa I would pack a replacement rifle as a spare in a standard caliber. I haven't ever walked into a store and seen 30-338 ammo anywhere. I am not saying it isn't possible cause this is one of the most popular wildcats, but your odds of scoring on a hunt when your ammo is lost, is about zip.

I considered a 338-06 chambering in the current rifle I am building, common sense knocked me on the noggin and I changed my mind. If you really want a 338 get a mag, you can always load that down, but you can't get a 338-06 to ever match the 338 Mag.

Edit: to repair my FOD's ( fingers of doom )

quote:

I haven't ever walked into a store and seen 30-338 ammo anywhere

I can't buy this idea of the lack of OTS ammo being a problem. In 40 years of hunting, a helluva lot of which has involved airlines and other trickly logistical problems, I haven't once, nor have any of my hunting companions, had to scrounge up (buy, beg, borrow, or steal) ammo. A spare rifle on a long, faraway, trip where I won't have somebody else's to borrow isn't a bad idea, but I'd have ammo with me for that caliber, too. I have been on 2 hunts where a rifle got broken (neither time was it mine) and the owner had to borrow one from somebody else in the party. In neither case was it a "no ammo" problem, and if it had been, we were so far out in the sticks that buying any ammo in any caliber wasn't an option. Nope, just because it eats unusual ammo is no reason not to go with a wildcat.