quote:

Originally posted by 44magLeo:
When comparing a standard cartridge to a hypervelocity cartridge you compare the same bullet weight in both cartridges.

No you don't.

Most cartridges have loads for lighter and heavier bullets. You pick the bullet for the appropriate job for your chosen firearm. A 220 grain bullet in a 300 Winchester Magnum is, for instance, comparable to a 168 grain bullet in a 30/06 for big game hunting. Neither is in the so called hypervelocity range in the respective guns.

What is "hypervelocity" anyway? I think it's a poorly chosen term. If you wish it to mean 4,000 fps, the 220 Swift got there a LONG time ago and it's not a magnum. Remember, magnum is just a name.

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

Once and for ALL, bullets DO NOT kill by bullet weight or energy,

quote:

Bullets DO NOT kill by SD, ENERGY or other BS factors like KO figures. They kill from velocity imparting a wave through tissue so tremendous as to cause it to burst it's cells.

Then why do you use a 416 Rigby? Why not a 25-06 or a 223 as they both posses more of the velocity that you hold in such high regard? Clearly they must be the more effective "killers"..

Simply, your idiotic attempt at trying to disparage what I have said with your stupid examples is a waste of my time and others on the forum.

You, sir, are an imbecile.

If you cant answer the question, attack the messenger. I know that in your demented mind you think that your insults make my arguments less valid. Personally, it just reinforces my belief that you are full of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

Once and for ALL, bullets DO NOT kill by bullet weight or energy,

quote:

Bullets DO NOT kill by SD, ENERGY or other BS factors like KO figures. They kill from velocity imparting a wave through tissue so tremendous as to cause it to burst it's cells.

Then why do you use a 416 Rigby? Why not a 25-06 or a 223 as they both posses more of the velocity that you hold in such high regard? Clearly they must be the more effective "killers"..

Simply, your idiotic attempt at trying to disparage what I have said with your stupid examples is a waste of my time and others on the forum.

You, sir, are an imbecile.

If you cant answer the question, attack the messenger. I know that in your demented mind you think that your insults make my arguments less valid. Personally, it just reinforces my belief that you are full of shit.

Answer what question?
Bwahahahahahahahahaha

I really enjoy good quality bullets!

This is a 250grs Rhino bullet taken out of a big Moose's neck. Weight 245grs, 98%!
Shot at 30 yards, velocity 2600fps from a 9,3x62.
Want even think about what this would look like if it was a 270grs Speer or similar "conventional" bullet...

M

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:

Answer what question?
Bwahahahahahahahahaha

The one concept that has always amazed me, and always will, is that so many people are willing to spend thousands of dollars putting together the PERFECT Rifle/Scope combination, and then go Scrooge when it comes to the ammo.

I have never understood that mindset. It doesn't matter how smooth the action on the rifle, or if the rig can stack five shots in the same hole at 200 yards, if the bullet cannot accomplish what it was sent to do, what have you gained???

Just to clarify:

None of the guys I hunt with have spent "thousands of dollars on guns or scopes"

Most only have one gun and they have hunted with that gun for many, many years ! Some of these guys are in their late sixties and mid seventies. Most of the guns are either old Brownings, Winchesters and Remingtons.

The majority of them have not set foot in gun shop for many years. They get their ammo from whatever is available in local fishing stores around here. So the ammo is budget stuff, some ammo now more than 40 years old !

None of them fire their guns on a range , only on a hunt ! Most have not fired their gun other than at a Moose. Most of the guns show quite a bit of abuse from bouncing around in a pick up, most have rust spots and most rarely actually have been cleaned for years.

They have no interest in trophies or ballistics other than they get their moose once a year ....... and here is the thing they do !

Year after year they fill their tags and this really had me wondering and pondering the question I posed.

quote:

Originally posted by 416RigbyHunter:
This is my late take on this subject.
Premium bullets have their place, BUT, the HYPE that comes along for the ride is something we DO NOT need.
This new notion that a bullet requires 100% weight retention is ridiculous.
Once and for ALL, bullets DO NOT kill by bullet weight or energy, they kill by disrupting tissue, vessels and organs causing either/both CNS damage and blood loss. As a bullet loses weight, it is disrupting tissue by throwing off particles in a wave ahead of the actual bullet, destroying/disrupting far more tissue than if it didn't. Mono's and premiums generally produce NARROWER wound channels, although they impart MORE energy due to higher weight retention. The argument for higher weight retention is ridiculous.

Cheers.

The word "premium" gets painted with a pretty broad brush,since it encompasses everything these days from an Accubond to a Barnes or other mono. There's differences in expansion characteristics between bullets and how they achieve those sever and extensive wound channels we all love to see.

Contrary to popular myth, a bullet does not have to fragment and throw off chunks of jacket and brittle core to create a severe and extensive wound channel. Some that retain a lot of weight are vicious killers, even on lung shots.
The fact that many bullets fragment is due as much to the use of brittle alloys in cores and jackets that are incapable of withstanding the stress of high velocity impact.

Below are three bullets; all are 140 gr 7mm started at 3080 fps to 3250 fps(left and far right). All impacted medium sized animals, two big mule deer and one 300# black bear.

The two on the right are Bitterroot Bonded Cores. They retained about 138 gr of weight and expanded to about .65 caliber. Both animals hit with these bullets collapsed immediately to the shot,even with a pure lung shot in one case. (what the cool kids like to call "DRT").

(I once ran a dozen animals straight,mostly elk and deer that did not make a track after hits with a Bitterroot, which typically retain in excess of 95% of their weight.The BBC is easily the fastest killing bullet I have ever used, far superior to any C&C bullet I have used or seen used.)

The one on the left is a 140 gr Accubond; it retained about 59 grains;shed a lot of fragments,and did a decent job but did not kill immediately (as conventional wisdom tells us it should). Shoulder smashed, lungs pulped, that buck ran off....not far, but he did.

I've long maintained that extensive wounding is accomplished by an expanded frontal area and that the fragmentation (disintegration?)has nothing to do with it. It's the expanded frontal area that does the tissue damage, not little shards of jacket and core flying around randomly.

Personally I think this stuff about disintegrating bullets killing "better" is a lot of hooey and have never seen it flesh out in real life on animals.If it works so well why don't we use disintegrating bullets on Cape Buffalo and brown bear? YMMV.


BTW, I've seen some C&C bullets that did a decent job but never seen any that impressed the hell out of me, mostly due to erratic and inconsistent performance.

quote:

Originally posted by Eastcoaster:

The word "premium" gets painted with a pretty broad brush,since it encompasses everything these days from an Accubond to a Barnes or other mono. There's differences in expansion characteristics between bullets and how they achieve those sever and extensive wound channels we all love to see.

Contrary to popular myth, a bullet does not have to fragment and throw off chunks of jacket and brittle core to create a severe and extensive wound channel. Some that retain a lot of weight are vicious killers, even on lung shots.
The fact that many bullets fragment is due as much to the use of brittle alloys in cores and jackets that are incapable of withstanding the stress of high velocity impact.

Below are three bullets; all are 140 gr 7mm started at 3080 fps to 3250 fps(left and far right). All impacted medium sized animals, two big mule deer and one 300# black bear.

The two on the right are Bitterroot Bonded Cores. They retained about 138 gr of weight and expanded to about .65 caliber. Both animals hit with these bullets collapsed immediately to the shot,even with a pure lung shot in one case. (what the cool kids like to call "DRT").

(I once ran a dozen animals straight,mostly elk and deer that did not make a track after hits with a Bitterroot, which typically retain in excess of 95% of their weight.The BBC is easily the fastest killing bullet I have ever used, far superior to any C&C bullet I have used or seen used.)

The one on the left is a 140 gr Accubond; it retained about 59 grains;shed a lot of fragments,and did a decent job but did not kill immediately (as conventional wisdom tells us it should). Shoulder smashed, lungs pulped, that buck ran off....not far, but he did.

I've long maintained that extensive wounding is accomplished by an expanded frontal area and that the fragmentation (disintegration?)has nothing to do with it. It's the expanded frontal area that does the tissue damage, not little shards of jacket and core flying around randomly.

Personally I think this stuff about disintegrating bullets killing "better" is a lot of hooey and have never seen it flesh out in real life on animals.If it works so well why don't we use disintegrating bullets on Cape Buffalo and brown bear? YMMV.


BTW, I've seen some C&C bullets that did a decent job but never seen any that impressed the hell out of me, mostly due to erratic and inconsistent performance.

The bullet on the right looks remarkably like the Hornady 139 gr .284 Interbond that I removed after it penetrated diagonally through the entire body of a rather large whitetail, lodging under the hide of the off side hindquarter after striking the scapula & about 25yds.



I had similar results to yours with the Nosler Accubond. I never had a deer drop on the spot with the Accubonds yet all that were hit broadside through the center of the boiler-room with the Interbonds were DRT.

I prefer bonded bullets when the Mv exceeds 3000fps on bullets under .323.

The one C&C bullet that impressed the heck out of me was the 275 Speer Semi spritzer in my 338 Win Mag. Amazing performance. In the 26" barrel of the Ruger #1, it just broke 2500 fps.
I only ever recovered one. 425 was the paced off yardage across an alfalfa field, impacted large bull in the shoulder spine junction. Broke, no shattered, 4 vertebrae, both shoulders and was recovered in the layer of meat just under the skin on the far side. Weighted 212 grains. A true Premium bullet in my world.
Best regards!

ALF: There's nothing wrong with improving something.
For me, my shots are rarely over 150 yards where a couple inch group at 100 yards is fine. Yet, still, reloading to accuracy using premium bullets is part of the 2-part plan.

1. Proofing the components like the scope, trigger settings, bore condition, action to stock fit, etc. first rules out problems. Most free accuracy was achieved by fine tuning (or replacing the existing) trigger and scrubbing the bore.
2. Finding the best speed and bullet weight is more icing on the cake. More of a challenge than necessity.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

They have no idea as to bullet weight etc and yet after 18 years of hunting with these we have not yet lost a moose as wounded.

It then begs the question, are we nuts to be so anal about ballistics and choice of ammo and bullets ?

quote:

Personally I think this stuff about disintegrating bullets killing "better" is a lot of hooey and have never seen it flesh out in real life on animals.If it works so well why don't we use disintegrating bullets on Cape Buffalo and brown bear? YMMV.

Just for sake of conversation I have taken both Brown bear and Water Buffalo with 180 accubonds taken up
to 3300 fps in a 300 RUM. There was also a scrub bull which like
The water buffalo is bigger than any cape I ever saw. Both died in the approved fashion. With those two as an acid test I wasn't particularly concerned about using the same
Combo on a coastal bear the following year. Left a perfectly good .375 and monobullets in the tent while doing it. Never saw an animal die faster in my life, but many are tied. Contrast that with my first grizzly/brown bear with a .338 and 225 TSXs which wasn't impressive at all.

I like several Premium bullets, and for certain uses they are great. For other uses, some of them
Work against you.
Of t

I am the ultimate nut for improvement and innovation however when I look at these dudes they are quite content to do what they have been doing for many years now.

I think premiums have their place(s); (high velocity, large game, etc). But for the vast majority of hunters who are after WT deer, at "normal" ranges, using 30/06s 30/30s, 308's, 270s. etc, premiums really offer no advantages, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
if the bullet cannot accomplish what it was sent to do, what have you gained???

I think that assertion is getting to the real meat of the issue. Frankly it is very seldom that I dont hear a tale of a "Bullet failure", which are a dime a dozen, and either recognize something about the story that is downright boneheaded or simply doesnt add up leaving me pretty skeptical. And I am certain that "bad bullets" get wrongly accused for what is actually lack of practice, poor shot placement, lack of attention to other equipment, buck fever, poor technique, using the wrong bullet for a particular situation, and you name it. I would wager that there are many more such circumstances where excuses are needed for other in the field issues than there ever have been actual bullet "failures". Do we really need "Premium" bullets? Well, apparently some feel they do. Im not one of them. But the real question might be will that actually fix their problem? More often than not, the right Hornady, Sierra or Speer for the job is "Premium" enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Eastcoaster:


I've long maintained that extensive wounding is accomplished by an expanded frontal area and that the fragmentation (disintegration?)has nothing to do with it.

It is pretty easy to see the variations in wound channels that different bullets provide with ballistic gelatin. Some penetrate like the dickens (which is sometimes just what is required) and some explode very violently, most fall somewhere in between. Again, I think that judical selection of bullets "for a given task" is the prudent approach. And sometimes a "Premium" may well be just the ticket! I just dont think that applies to EVERYTHING..

I like Swift A Frames with my .416. The recovered bullets are all essentially twins. Only difference depends on ditance and if it hits a serious bone.

Premiums have their place, and ammo is generally the least costly part of a hunting trip.

That said, cup and core bullets work, especially if matched to game size and impact velocity. You don't "need" a TSX for a whitetail or pronghorn.

I grew up in a similar community, Ranchers, cowboys on big ranches..All of them had a Win. 94 in one calber or another but mostly 30-30 and 25-35, even recall a 38-55 or two, those that didn't shoot Winchesters had a Savage mod. 99 in 300 Savage or 250-3000 and a few Mod. 95 Winchesters in 30-40 or 30-03 that they shot 30-06 ammo in!! Everything was iron sighted with factory barrel sights..

They all grew up hunting and wild game was common fair for supper. The rifle got most thru the big depression when beef sold for 14 cents a lb. All land was deeded, no gov land and most felt the deer belonged to them, they fed them and managed them..I recall when my dad came in and said we better start eating beef, these deer are worth $50.00 each and we were in the hunting business from that time until this day. It took me a year to develope a taste for beef, it was damn greasy IMO...

Could they shoot, some could and some couldn't that has never changed, could they hunt, most only if they had too, but they could track and get close enough to bring home the bacon, most cowboys can track or they would lose a lot of cows in that big country. My dad told us boys in no uncertain terms find the cows they will be in the last four tracks they made, same as any other animal..He was deadly at 50 to 75 yards, but he could find them when nobody else was having luck..

The had no knowledge of handloading and it was viewed as dangerous, bullet weitht was something they were unfamiliar with, they just bought a box of ammo that fit the caliber..Premium was gasoline, and nobody used it..

If we wanted a deer you stuck your saddle gun in a scabbard and rode out every day as usual checking cows or fence, working on a windmill or whatever then "when" not "if" you saw a deer, you shot it, laid it over the front of your saddle in your lap and rode to the house..If it was winter you hung on the poarch, in the summer in the root celler..For elk and larger animals you went to the house and got a pack horse.

Today its a different world, and hunting is costly, most don't have the skills, time, or opertunity the old guys had, so long range guns and premium bullets give you the edge you may need..Either way its an option and its free choice, and it don't hurt a thing...

I was a gun nut from the get go, I advanced more than my kin on that subject, I have no problem with that. They recognize me as a better shot than they are, and don't really give a dame and hey I get to fix their guns free of charge, I sell their hunts as Im interested in such, they are not, Im a relative so I get no commission. I amaze some of them with even my limited knowledge of guns, but my success rate isn't much better than theirs, I have worked at it harder and its paid off to a certain degree perhaps. I like cup and core bullets for deer and antelope and premiums for the big stuff, they just look at me with a blank stare when I discuss it with them, so I don't...

I think we as hunters have advance to that point, right or wrong, but I remember a hell of a lot of bullet failures back then..I like testing bullets and Im an avid gut digger for bullets..If a new bullet comes out Im the first to try it on game. The old timers would think Im crazy, bordering on nasty!! but sad to say, they are mostly gone now and I might not be all that far b,,,ehind th,em..Those old bodys are all good memories filled with all my respect. Survival was just a way of life with them.

Yah 1 Nuts is about right. roger

Maybe the bigger issue we should be discussing is what ACTUALLY constitutes Bullet Failure in our individual opinions????

For me at least, it's an expanding bullets failure to either penetrate or expand. I care less about weight retention as long as the bullet penetrates and expends it's energy in the animal. So I'm absolutely fine with Nosler Partitions as well as CoreLokts on elk, black bear, deer, etc. For something more dangerous I prefer A-Frames for having all of the Partitions virtues plus 90% weigh retention.

Ray. You tell a good tale my friend, l almost feel like l knew those ol fellas

I need premium bullets because I shoot enough with all my rifles and Chronograph 90% of my loads and know what bullets shoot with accuracy at the higher speeds. Because I do this I know which bullets will hold up on particular animals. I am a speed nut and will admit it so therefore I like the tougher bullets. Most of my buddies know enough to use Premium bullets, some have no clue. Bad shots are bad shots with premium bullets or the old style bullets, in the case of a bad shot all bets are off. Good shooting.

quote:

Do we really need Premium bullets?

I look at it like an insurance policy.....and a cheap one at that. For only a few dollars I can guard against a jacket separation on a very expensive elk hunt. I usually get better BC with (accubonds) and that yields better trajectories.....and of course better down range energy.

A-Frames and bonded bullets as well as partitions run about fifty cents a bullet more than the others.....and when I shell out $5,000 for a hunt, that's very cheap insurance.

It's not a matter of need....it's simply a decision and for me an easy one.....I shoot premium bullets on big game always....but do not consider deer to be "big game"...interlocks work fine on these big varmints.

quote:

I look at it like an insurance policy.....and a cheap one at that. For only a few dollars I can guard against a jacket separation on a very expensive elk hunt. I usually get better BC with (accubonds) and that yields better trajectories.....and of course better down range energy.

A-Frames and bonded bullets as well as partitions run about fifty cents a bullet more than the others.....and when I shell out $5,000 for a hunt, that's very cheap insurance.

It's not a matter of need....it's simply a decision and for me an easy one.....I shoot premium bullets on big game always....but do not consider deer to be "big game"...interlocks work fine on these big varmints.

Excellent response. I have never been able to understand why people will spend Thousands of dollars on their rifle and scope rig, guided hunts, binoculars, airline flights, etc. etc. etc. yet when it come to the one piece of equipment that success or failure rests upon, they want to go cheap.

Perhaps because they have been using them successfully for decades, with perfect results.

After I had posted that I had not killed anything in Africa with premium bullets, I read with some surprise on this thread that Nosler Accubonds were premium bullets. I had used 200 grain Accubonds out of a 300 Weatherby Magnum to take 16 Springbok, a Warthog, a Gemsbok, a Bushbuck and probably some other stuff all without knowing I was shooting a premium bullet. In a cursory search on a couple of web sites I didn't find them referred to a premium by any manufacturer.

Weatherby loads Accubonds in their "high quality" ammunition. Swift declares that their "High Grade" ammunition is "as good as it gets." When I Googled premium 308 Ammo, up came Federal Premium ammunition loaded with Nosler Partitions.

So firstly, I don't think ya'll know what premium is and secondly I believe Remington should induct their Core-Lokt line into the premium hall of fame by naming it some sort of premium stuff.

Tnanks Alf for starting this.

I guess for me the discussion would actually be meaningful if the issue concerned something that people were being FORCED to do!

I do not care what a person chooses to use as long as it is legal and they are satisfied with the results. To me it is strictly a matter of personal choice, I just don't get the idea of going cheap on the ammo after spending so much on the other necessary equipment and the hunt.

I'm not irritated; just amused.

Im not sure what bullet failure is..I always liked the old WW open point expanding bullet in my 270 and 30-06 on deer etc...It was soft and expanded rapidly, always shed its jacket and killed them on the spot everytime.

Most bullet failures I have seen and that's actually many came from the days when gun nuts proclaimed the 220 swift with 40 gr. bullets at 4000 FPS were deer rifles and others shot bullets designed for the 35 Rem in 35 Whelens and 350 Magnums, not to mention target bullets in their 30-06, and the ball started rolling.

I remember using the first Noslers on deer in my 7x57, the old screw gizzies, they pretty much drilled the deer and the animal ran half a mile, but today those old bullets rare and bring big bucks and are proclaimed to be the best of Noslers, that's bunk, they were the worst..Noslers best bullets are todays bullets..

The best bullets ever, premiums included are still the Rem RN Corelokt and the WW Power Point, and I like Hornday Interlocks also, but all at 30-06 velocity....I like todays Nosler partitions and Accubonds as well as anything..CS Customs and Woodleighs, no flys on Speer bullets either.

There are so many good bullets out there, that its no longer a credible campfire discussion, use what you want, 99.9% chance it will work just fine and yes that includes Sierras that have a undeserved reputation for coming apart, but Ive never had one fail..I think a lot of things have changed since the mid 1900s and most all the bullet manufacturers have listened and corrected all those old faults, But the reputation has been handed down and lots of folks believe what they read 50 years ago is still in effect..

Alfs old buddies. like my folks, just never knew better, never had to..Many of us on the other hand created a non existent problem to argue or discuss depending on who doing the talking, but it certainly drew a crowd!

Just my take on the subject but Im not the bullet cop, use what blows your skirt up...

Today, I think the only criteria for a clean kill is good shot placement.

First, I will admit that I have NEVER paid more than $20 for a box of bullets of any type. I tend to use the bullet that shoots the best out of the particular rifle I am using. For instance, I was sighting in a new to me Colt Light Rifle in 30-06 with plain Winchester 150 Power Points. When they shot an inch or less at 100 yards, I just went to the store and bought a couple boxes more. That was good enough for my hunting. It took a 200 pound hog at 200 yards with a single shot.

Do I buy "premium" bullets, sure, but I don't see the need to pay full price for them. I have Partitions, Accubonds, GMX, TSX that I bought from Shooter's Pro Shop or other kind folks here, and I believe TTSX that I found on the clearance shelf at Grafs. There is no reason not to play in the premium bullet world because of the cost factor. You may just have to be patient as to how and when you get them. For me, that way if they go not shoot well out of any of my rifles, I don't think twice about selling them or giving them away. I have a BUNCH or Nosler Partitions from SPS that make up the bulk of my premium bullets. I also have a bunch of Sierra bullets that just plain work. I also get them from the outlet at the factory cheaply.

Maybe the only things I can really say are shoot what works best in your rifle and I am cheap.

I know this: Prior to 1992/3, I spent a lot of time walking after customer's game, after the game was hit. I spent time walking after my own game, after the shot was fired. We used many different types of cartridges, ammo and bullets for reloading, all cup and core.

Since 1992/3 I started using monometallic copper bullets and encouraged customers to do the same. Since 1992/3 I only walked after game that have been hit with cup and core bullets.

quote:

The one concept that has always amazed me, and always will, is that so many people are willing to spend thousands of dollars putting together the PERFECT Rifle/Scope combination, and then go Scrooge when it comes to the ammo.

No, CHC, they're the same guys that when they go fishing having spent big on rod, reel, fly line and etc., then Scrooge on the last nine feet of nylon cast (or as some call it leader).

I will go out on a limb here:
You can go to any store, select a bullet weight say 180 gr in say a 30-06 and choose any brand available out there, from what is seen as premium or to the lowliest no name brand; go out and there will not be a North American animal out there that will not go down if shot say in the chest with that bullet !

Alf, I'm certainly not trying to argue as I completely agree with your statement...... In a perfect world!!! I prefer to have insurance! !!! I have auto insurance ,not because I plan on having an accident,but things happen beyond our control. We must all determine what risks we take..... some folks love sky diving while other folks "can't fathom jumping out of a perfectly good airplane"! When I "saddle up to the bar at my favorite sporting goods store..... "Make mine a Premium" !!!!! memtb

Probably not, but premium bullets are useful if you are trying to shoot something a bit bigger than your rifle is really designed for - a 243 on big red deer for example.

But we need to remember that those of us who are on the likes of AR are gun nuts to some degree. Vast majority of hunters just view a gun as a tool that is handed down through the family. They enjoy the hunt but a not worried by the gun. It works, game falls over.

Much of the premium bullets, new actions scopes etc is pushing the boundaries of technology. Go back 150 years and most guns in everyday use were muzzle loaders. Go back 60 or 70 and most were military surplus shooting 303 ammo. Non of this newfangled 243 / 270 etc.

All modern cars have ABS - 20 years ago it was an optional extra. Is needed - no, but does it help the man / woman in the street for whom a car is something to get from a to b - well I hope that person has abs rather than jamming on the breaks and skidding into me when a cat walks out in front of them!

Alf ----- I also agree with you and I was a great fan of the old Winchester Silver Tip and Remington Core Lokt bullets in my pre Reloading days. When I started reloading and discovered the Nosler Partitions and saw what it did to huge Brown Bear I became thrilled with premium bullets. Later Nosler established the Pro Shooters Shop and the rest is history for this shooter-hunter-reloader. When you can buy premium bullets like Pattitions, Accubonds and Ballistic Tips for $4.95 to $14.95 per box depending on Caliber why not use them and stock up when they have a sale, which is often. They even put first run overun bullets on great sales. In the past I didn't blow the Nosler horn but after being anal for years I now have enough for my great grandsons to never have to worry about buying anymore bullet or brass. This is my reason for using premium bullets for what it is worth. Good Shooting.

In 1972 the UN enacted sanctions against South Africa because of the apartheid issue and the US played by the book. It meant a significant slow down in supply of sporting arms and ammo out of the USA. By 1977 this was very apparent for us. There was quite a bit on sanctions busting going on so some stuff did come through via the back door.

This meant that stuff like bullets were in short supply and we scrounged around shooting anything we could lay our hands on.

We could not be picky ! If someone got in small supply of Sierra's we bought and loaded them, Speer, Hornady and then stuff you dont see on the US shelves. Hirtenberg, RWS, and off course stuff from the Czech's. We shot old ammo from DWM, FN and Kynoch.

PMP in Pretoria made bullets cases, primers and powder ( initially only a few burn rate options)
We mixed powders to get better burn rate options.
The bullets were basic cup and core non bonded softs.


In all of this we hunted and some hunted a lot !

And in spite of all this we still did not see what could be seen as outright bullet failures , animals died, some quite blood shot because of vary soft bullets. Yes there were wounded animals but not because bullets failed, they were because of badly placed shots.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

We mixed powders to get better burn rate options.

Eeee, Haw!