Thoughts? Range?

Bullet type and weight? memtb

200 grain Accubond.

Big mess when you gut him , or maybe that's what the bullet does ...I don't know , never tried that shot . Great caliber and good bullet choice .. :-)

Going back a few decades;25-06 IMP, small mule deer buck, was looking at me over his back, off hand 50 to 75 yds., held on his nose and flattened him ,one shot.
Whenn I got to him he was very much alive but his rear half was paralyzed. It was an absolutely perfect Teas heart shot. The bullet angled up hitting the spine about 18" from the rear.

No mess at all. Cleaned out easy. roger

I’d feel better about a shot like that if it were some flavor or TTSX bullet. I still wouldn’t take the shot unless at a wounded elk I was trying to finish off.

Wow

Not knowing how much bullet weight you will lose after impact, I would suggest that the range is primarily dependent upon your ability to place the bullet....between the hams in a direction parallel to that of the elk!

Though, I would strongly suggest going to a Barnes 180 grain TSX or TTSX for this application! memtb

I would not try it on an unwound elk . I would try to spine him or break the hip joint instead of trying to reach the vitals up the tail pipe. Again, only on a wounded elk.

Love the Accubond. I shot a 100ish pound boar where the hip meets the spine. The bullet a 140grain Accubond from a 270 Win broke the spine, unzipped the onside flank and exited the throat. However, I agree this is asking a lot from an Accubond. Elk are bigger than the biggest Euro boar. If you want to stay with Accubond, I would move up to 250 , 338 or 300, 375.

200/220 NP or Barnes 180/200. Not sure how many elk you have shot or how desperate you are but if it’s your first shot and you are trying to reach the heart lung area it’s a pretty shitty way to go about killing an elk. If you can break the spine or hips that helps. A lot can happen from point A to point B on an elk taking a Texas heart shot.

My thoughts are that you not attempt that kind of shot no matter what range. That being said, a 180gr. woodleigh hydro bullet might be enough to get you there.

Just no; wait until it turns. Trying that as a first shot is not for ethical hunters. Too much room for error.

This is a silly question. If you are going to dispatch an animal as quickly as possible, this is not an option. If on the other hand you just want to kill something, well.... Shooting an elk in the ass or breaking a hip borders on cruelty.

Just stirring the pot. I would never consider shooting an elk in the ass. It would be cruel.

As a Texan I'll simply remind you that what you are speaking of is more correctly called the Oklahoma Brain Shot. And if a 200 grain Accubond won't do it then nothing will.

If properly executed, with the proper bullet (bullet exit at sternum area)...expect excellent results. A little messy, perhaps....but, extremely effective! If it’s a “must have” elk, take the shot. If “not” absolutely necessary....wait on a better angle! memtb

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
As a Texan I'll simply remind you that what you are speaking of is more correctly called the Oklahoma Brain Shot. And if a 200 grain Accubond won't do it then nothing will.

Bighorn Breath -- There is a large interesting Indian artifact store in Murfreesboro I have been trying to go visit for a few years. If that sort of thing interests you I'd bet you would enjoy the time spent there.

Another post where I refer people to the terminal bullet performance thread.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/2861098911/p/1

Your answer is in there.

quote:

“must have” elk,

Sorry but this is where hunting really takes a left turn. I've seen enough 3 legged and gut shot animals to come to know there is always another day. No such thing as 'must have'. Bragging rights do not make a hunter, ethics do. Hence all the silly jokes about Texas and Oklahoma. If you just gotta have it, go to one of the pay to shoot outfits. Easily worth 3 fingers of fine single malt scotch and a couple hours worth of BS while your buddies ogle your 'Trophy'.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
As a Texan I'll simply remind you that what you are speaking of is more correctly called the Oklahoma Brain Shot.

One of Elmer Keith's favorite shots according to his writings so he could "take em from any angle".

Sorry if all you Keith fans got insulted.

I can't imagine being so desperate to take such a shot on an unwounded animal.

I know this was more theoretical than particle conversation, but I do want to make it clear my suggestion to spine or break the hip joint was assuming the elk was already wounded.

quote:

Originally posted by Buglemintoday:

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
As a Texan I'll simply remind you that what you are speaking of is more correctly called the Oklahoma Brain Shot. And if a 200 grain Accubond won't do it then nothing will.

Bighorn Breath -- There is a large interesting Indian artifact store in Murfreesboro I have been trying to go visit for a few years. If that sort of thing interests you I'd bet you would enjoy the time spent there.

Will have to check that out. Thanks so much.

quote:

Originally posted by kda55:

quote:

“must have” elk,

Sorry but this is where hunting really takes a left turn. I've seen enough 3 legged and gut shot animals to come to know there is always another day. No such thing as 'must have'. Bragging rights do not make a hunter, ethics do. Hence all the silly jokes about Texas and Oklahoma. If you just gotta have it, go to one of the pay to shoot outfits. Easily worth 3 fingers of fine single malt scotch and a couple hours worth of BS while your buddies ogle your 'Trophy'.

Please read my qualifiers for this shot! Certainly “not” recommended as a first option. Have done it once....will do it again under my narrowly defined criteria for the shot. I have no elk in the freezer this year, because I passed on a questionable shot. There are many times that shots should “not” be taken....whether it be the shot distance, high cross-winds, wrong bullet or caliber for the task, or a hunter that can’t ethically make the shot ( buck-fever, exercise induced lack of breath control, etc.). Generally there are more reasons to pass on a shot....than to take the shot! memtb

I would guess that a300wm 200 accubonf would work on that shot from 100-450 yards or so. Placing the shot is much harder than a lung shot due to the size of the target area. Taking it discussion brings out the foolish in is. Elk shot in the rear poorly = elk shot in the front poorly. Long painful death if not rapidly recovered.
Trotting away at slight angle Cow elk. 325 yards. 338wm 275 Speer semispitzer. In flank out neck DRT
Calf elk. Running 45 yards away. 338wm 300 Barnes solid. In anus out throat. Dead in 25 yds of death Sprint.
BIG Whitehair buck looking back 425 yards 30-06 barnes180x. In an inch away from anus out throat DRT
Sum total of 45 years of hunting with that shot. Thanks Elmer.

The Texas heart shot is a deadly shot with a 200 gr. Accubond on deer and elk, the partition is perhaps better..I saw PH Phillip Price shoot my eland with the Texas heart shot and a Rem corelokt in a 243, it came to rest in the base of the neck at the shoulder junction perfectly mushroomed..

One of my favorite honey holes to hunt elk is so thick the only shot you will get is the Texas heart shot short of a miracle..I have found the 30-06 with a 180 or 200 gr. Nosler will work just fine as will the 338 Win with a 210, 225 or 250 gr. Nosler and the 9.3x62 with a 286 Nosler..and Im quite sure the Barnes X will do the same, all have sufficient penetration in flesh..As to killing effect it more often than not will put an elk down quicker than any broadside shot it just tears up more insides along with the lungs and heart..

As to the claim of ruined deer or elk that's just pure BS, a gut shot animal is not ruined if you clean it as fast as possible with snow or water, and in many case for an hour or two..I learned this in Africa many years ago. The myth of the Texas Heart shot is just made by amateur hunters, or unskilled gutters, If a gut shot or gut grazed shot that lets out a little shit was all that bad, lots of folks would be tossing good meat out, and I suspect that happens by those making such claims as Ive listened to over the years..shit can be washed out and does not contaminate meat unless it get into the meat itself and that's hard to do..I it gets into hamburger then your in trouble. but such areas should be discarded..

Apparantly some folks watch tooo much Saturaday morning high fenced elk hunts where you wait until all it perfect at the grain bin..Idahoo elk are wild, and on the move, if the smell or see a hunter: there in Montana by dark..You take what you get or you go home and eat frozen diners the rest of the year..Its dark timber to thick and muddy to walk in or sage brush flats and hills and running shots are a guarantee most of the time, sometimes you get a decent shot, but you better not pass on any opertunity at and Idaho bull, cows are sometimes easier but depends on hunting pressure or what ever, even cows can be hard to come by..that is why the state is usually aroung 10% success..Wait until he is broadside? stay home don't waste your time.

I suggest what ever game you hunt use enough gun to shoot through the animal lengthwise. I usually do this while trophy hunting, for a meat hunt or depredations hunt it makes little difference, and I try for head shots as those are usually easy kills, but as season progresses they too can be difficult.

An elk on opening day can be easy but as the season progresses the elk get damn wild and go in the hard to hunt places.

All Nonsense; of course, if the shot is Perfectly placed, then sure, it will kill game.
But how many amateur hunters can place that bullet, perfectly, every time. Because every time you don't hit that sub two inch target, you have shot an elk in the ham; maybe anchoring it, maybe not depending on the angle.
No responsible hunter should try it.
Only irresponsible ones who are overconfident in their abilities.
I know, all AR members can hit that two inch hole every time at 350 yards on running elk.
But for the average hunter; do not encourage it.

There is a lot of difference in 25 to 75 yards, I don't know why anyone would try a Texas heart shot beyond 100 yards nor see the need to..but I guarantee you I will take it everytime if need be up to 100yards standing, and up to 50 or better running. That's all your going to get North of my house. South of my house 100 to 300 or more is the rule..

The 300 Wby with a 200 gr. Accubond or a partition is deadly on an elk for about any shot but the hunter has to place any shot correctly or its all for naught. BTW been using the Accubonds in my 30-06 and .338 win. To my surprise the Accubond is as good as the partition on all counts..

quote:

All Nonsense; of course, if the shot is Perfectly placed, then sure, it will kill game.
But how many amateur hunters can place that bullet, perfectly, every time. Because every time you don't hit that sub two inch target, you have shot an elk in the ham; maybe anchoring it, maybe not depending on the angle.

DCPD,
Respectfully you raised the point and I hope I respectfully answer it. I certainly intend to.

The answer to your question sir is; "the same amount of amateur hunters that can place that bullet perfectly every time as can place that bullet perfectly every time anyplace else. That number is 0."
Secondly to your point of where the bullet ends up with a shot in the ham, first the soft area of the anus and around the anus until hard bone is found is beyond "sub 2 inch" as a target. More like 6" to 8" target. Either way, that is why I thanked Elmer. From any angle on a elk, the 275 Speer SS at 2450-2500 FPS at the muzzle will end up in and or through the vitals if properly aimed at them when the shot is fired. On a Whitetail, so will a Barnes 180 X 30 caliber bullet fired at 2800 FPS at the muzzle.
What I called foolish is thinking the elk is somehow more injured, hurt or offended by being poorly shot directly up in the rear compared to having his jaw, Front leg, or shot just behind the diaphragm into the stomach happen to him. I don't think that is reasonable or observable. In fact, I think death would likely be quicker with the massive blood loss from the major veins in the rear leg than any of the other site I mention even if the bullet did not range into the vitals.
All shots must only be measured by the man pulling the trigger against his ability to do so and the wisdom of him believing he can. I try to be thoughtful about that before I press the trigger.
Just my thoughts.
BTW, I shot a small doe a couple of seasons ago directly in the chest as she came running out of a thicket at about 10 yards with a .458 WM 485 flatnose cast bullet at 1750 FPS. Where the bullet exited her flank quite a bit of her insides did as well. She died at the shot and I do not think she suffered any less than if I had shot her from the opposite direction.
Best regards and wishing you all a perfect standing broadside shot at 100 yards!

Sigh, so many opinions, so little experience.
Except maybe RayA.

Taken in 2012 in southeast Colorado with
Texas heart shot on elk running for cover and getting close to it. Guides laser rangefinder said 110 yards at the shot. See the blood on the left of rump? Slightly left of anus due to his angle of flight.
Ruger 77 in .338 win mag using 210 grain Nosler in factory ammo. When this rifle fires with the Leupold crosshairs on the target, the hunt is over. I usually shoot Federal with 225 grain Noslers, but was out. I saw the impact of bullet and knew I had him.
Guide did not see the hit and asked if I hit him; just gave him the look and went to collect bull. He ran 75 yards into sparse brush and was dying on his feet when I put the next one through both lungs. Double lung shots are the death toll for elk and sooo hard to miss; always my favorite if available.

FWIIW, I would have killed this running bull with my 1895 .405 Winchester and 300 grain bullets or my .308 with 180 grain bullets.

Plus, the object of hunting is to kill the game, so please no more crap about ethics or sportsmanship. Just go out and do it. Just use enough gun.

Well living in western Washington I don't need any lessons on how thick it can get in the timber. The Pacific Northwest coastal country pretty much defines it, even compared to Idaho or wherever.

Never in 40+ years of hunting have I found a need or desperation to shoot anything unwounded in the ass. If an animal doesn't present a better angle than I wait and continue the stalk. That doesn't mean a perfectly broadside shot either which seems to be the excuse given in these discussions.

Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but that's life and my personal values. Some here obviously have have different ones. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

quote:

All Nonsense; of course, if the shot is Perfectly placed, then sure, it will kill game.

A lot of shots if muffed well results in a wounded animal.

That said I never preformed a Texas heart shot on purpose on non wounded game.

Haven't had to would I under the right circumstances.

Yes if I had the right rifle and bullet combo but so far I haven't had to in 50 years of big game hunting.

But I shot many heads of game head on center of the chest.

The same mess happens.

The worse was a 90lb whitetail with a 350gr 416 at 2450fps at about 30 yards.

Every thing from the front hole to the back hole was mush and all mixed to gather. Was as bad as any gut shot animal I've seen.

Gutted had it home in 30min. washed it out with a hose and was good eating.

Reasons you have for not shooting a game animal through the vitals with an entry point in the rear might be a next logical thought.
Chance of wounding too high?
Don't have enough gun/bullet to reach vitals?
Chance of ruining meat too high?
Just think it is wrong to shoot an animal there?
I personally think all these except the last one are decent reasons if they apply to you.
We are free to choose our own way in this pursuit of happiness.

To answer BighornBreath's question I couldn't be sure as I have not used the 200 ACB in that application. I will tell you though that and '06 with a 180 TSX will work perfectly on that shot because I've done it on an elk myself so I see no reason that a 300 WBY would not do the same.

As for the shot being ethical, proper or whatever you want to call it I think it depends solely on the circumstances. On an initial shot on an undisturbed elk or any animal of course you should wait for a better presentation. On the other hand on your 4th day of a five day trophy elk hunt and your 360 bull is disappearing into the trees and going straight away aim carefully between the hams and fire if you have the right caliber and bullet.

I personally in 60 years of big game hunting have only shot three animals with a true "Texas Heart Shot". In all three cases it was as if the rug had been pulled out from under them. it flat works.

Mark

Mark, I concur! memtb

Ray and Mark roger

I've used that shot on wounded game. I have not been in the circumstance where it was my first shot choice. Smallest caliber I did that with was a 300WM/Barnes 180 and it was in South Africa...a "money hunt", IOW, I was going to pay for any wounded/lost animal, and rightly so. I wonder which bullet would be best for that kind of shot in a 270W?

.270 Win. .....Barnes 140 TSX or 130 TTSX or as a somewhat distant second 150 partition.

Estimated retained weight after close range impact

Barnes 140 TSX....138 grains

Nosler Partition 150 grain.... grains 90 grains (I may have been a little generous)


I’ll take the 138 grains retained......every time! memtb

Yes sir, the bullets I used in South Africa for that were the 300WM/Barnes 180 and the 35 Whelen AI/Barnes 250X. Both did splendidly and did NOT make a big mess, surprisingly. the 300 took a Blesbuck and the Whelen took a zebra, both out about 150yds. The Blesbuck I gut shot "twice", as I couldn't believe "my lying eyes", from 340W that had kicked the guts out of its "2nd" scope and my zero was two feet right of aim. The 2nd was a zebra I had wounded (my friend wanted me to use his 300WM/180xbt to see what it would do) about 90yds off. Three hours later, we caught up with the herd and I tried to tailbone him at 150yds. the 250x went right alongside his spine for 3 ft, knoecked him down, but he got back up. when he turned sideways I shot him behind the shoulder. complete penetration on that one. We recovered the spine shot, perfect X and weighed 249gr! Not too shabby. ha.

That first shot on the zebra was a shoulder shot ( I thought). He was in the shade (those stripes are great camouflage!) and was turned more to the right than I thought. I clipped him way forward ( brisket) and turns out just the very forward edge of one lung. The 30 cal holes closed right up! He only left blood when he (a) coughed a gout every now and then and (b) if he scarped against a shrub. He went a bout 6 miles I kid you not!

A Texas heart shot is not necessarily elective. Might be all you have, tho.

Had to finish something I started, outbound steep quartering 6x6 bull. Steep enough angle such that putting it just ahead of the hip meant headed to a point between front legs. .300 Win, 180 gr NP from about 75 yds. Bullet never made it to chest cavity. Did put it down on the spot. Finisher to neck.

Killing is not retrieving. And putting something down is not the same as cleanly killing. A properly executed THS can put something down.