The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 338-06 vrs ?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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The devils in my head are making me do this. Seems a continual pissing contest either condemning or praising the 338-06. The thread usually moves into ad nauseam comparison of it to 338 Mag, or 30-06 the parent case. Of more interst I think is comparison to the 8mm-06, the 333 OKH and the 35 Whelen. Comments? | ||
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There really isn't enough field diff. between them (the OKH is identical). I have my .338-06 & I love it. A bunch of quality bullets available (maybe more 8mm on the way w/ the .323wsm), & good balance between performance vs rifle weight. I like the .338mags but wouldn't want one that weighed 7.5#.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Everything overlaps. It's just one that came late to the party. Don't worry about it. Join the NRA | |||
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The truth is never that complicated. The 338-06 drives bullets that are 20% heavier than the 30-06 to the same velocities, and maintain that velocity and trajectory all the way out to your game, regardless of distance. This means that the 338-06 delivers 300 Win mag energies all along the way with a tad more KO due to weight and diameter advantages. For this, you give up about 2 inches of practical trajectory to the 300. As such, it is 2/3rds of the way to a full 338 Win Mag on an ME basis, but its just 150 fps (100 fps loades to equal pressures) with the same bullets...all good .338s That's it...nothing but the facts. Draw your own conclusions! | |||
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I guess I am not sure what the point is to this? MD | |||
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 The only 8mm-06s I ever saw were mine or the ones I put together for others. I feel it is adequate in the hands of a cool hunter to take any game in the Americas and other continents as well. Bullet availability is not bad now days.Although the .333 OKH has a slight advantage over the 8mm-06 on the more dangerous or larger game, the bullet availability is sadly lacking. The 35 Whelen can be loaded to take any game the other two can and its range capability with lighter bullets is not bad.In fact some fun paper punching can be had with a wide range of cheap pistol bullets. If my hunting were limited to the lower 48 I'd go with the 8mm-06. If bench shooting with reduced loads , hunting large bear or many Afro species and had to choose only between the three I'd have to go with the Whelen. Just my Humble preference at the moment.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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I would take 8x57JS, but he must like to "roll his own". | |||
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the big advantage of the .338-06 over the .338 Magnum is two fold... 1. the larger magazine capacity 2. the ability to have near-magnum power in a much lighter gun. IMO the 338-06 must be built on a very lightweight frame and barrel to be of advantage over the magnum case. If it's as heavy as the .338 magnum there is no-to-little gain IMO. I believe this can be done easily. As to comparing to the .30-06 the energy advantage is quite able to stand on it's own merit. Is it needed?...only if you need the extra to ward off a griz while hunting elk. As a plains game cartridge it's also comforting knowing you might have a little better chance if something that bites wants to crawl into your sleeping bag. The .338-06 can produce close to 4,000 ft-lb of muzzle energy if it's called on. This is of course a substantial gain over the .30-06 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I can tell you why I picked the 338-06. I did not want a "magnum." Better bullet selection than the 8mm or 333. Better bullet ballistics than the whelen. I am huge fan of the 270 win. & the 06 case. I think the Whelen just doesn't have enough case capacity to do the 35 caliber justice. I wanted one. I can't imagine anything in N. America and most of the world that it wouldn't kill with a properly constructed bullet & placed shot. But, with all that being said. Throw all of them in a hat, draw one out and go hunting. I don't think you would be able to tell the difference. After all the research, the 338-06 just made more sense for what I was actually hunting. Elk more than anything. My "hunting" guns are: 22-250, 270 win, 338-06, 375 H&H. If I could own only one "hunting" rifle. It would be a 30 caliber (jack of all trades master of none). But fortunately, I can own multiple rifles. That is my 0.02 on the issue. I surely won't berate anyone for using anything else. There is cartridge overlap all the way from 22 up to 458. Is one better? Isn't it great to have a choice? | |||
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I think this is the subject Hier Schromf wanted comments on. The .338-06 is done on both sides, has been served and digested.Moving right along- - - -  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Well, Finn Aagaard was of the opinion that the 9.3x62 was probably the best of the non-magnum medium bores. He was specifically comparing the .338-06, the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 in the article that I read. I'm inclined to agree with him. I really like my 9.3x62. But, I also have an 8x57JS and a .375 H&H that I really like. -Bob F. | |||
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with better bullets, dont you think the 338-06 has become more of a contender and more versitile than the 9.3x62? with the bigger and better selection for the 338 and the lack of 9.3 components the edge goes again to the 338-06 the 338x62...now that is a fun thought  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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It's my understanding that the 338-06 will do everything the Westly Richards 318 will do and a little more, the difference in bullet diameter is 8 thou. (318 is 330 338 is 338). The WR has been used to take all manner of game even elephant with solids. Now there's something to be said for a modern 318 equivalent, in an affordable rifle and that's hurrarh!  | |||
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Good joke boom stick. It will only be a matter of time before numerous 9.3x62 "true disciples" rise to the bait. I like to follow the Medium Bore threads and I have noticed an unmistakable habit. Everytime someone posts "anything" on the 338-06 and/or the 35 Whelen, the 9.3 crowd simply can't resist the temptation to inform everyone how messed up they are for not junking the 338-06 and/or 35 Whelen. The 9.3 is sssoooooo.... superior I guess. Oh, to be so certain of a few ft lbs of energy must be the true path Valhalah. To confirm this trend, I did an advanced search in the Medium Bore forum froum 1 Jan 05 to 27 Sep 05, and found the 9.3 bubbas trying to hi- jack 8 of 10 key 338-06 and 35 Whelen threads. Conversely, only two 9.3 threads had any significant injects about 338-06 and/or 35 Whelen. (One was actually an inject by a 9.3 fan that contained a reference to 338-06 and 35 Whelen and preferred the 9.3 over the other two -- which the 9.3 crowd misinterpreted as praising the other two and jumped in the guy's s_ _ _ by mistake -- talk about zealots!) At the same time, the 9.3x62 crowd have started some of the more infamous threads in this forum outright asking to Bury the 35 Whelen and Bash the 336-06. Fun to read, but arn't these guys a little overly serious? Myself, I would prefer the 9.3x62 crowd to generate their own threads. Have at it until the whole gun world recognizes the errors of its ways and all the major companies only build rifles chambered for the 9.3x62 and Congress passes a law declaring all other calibers obsolete!!! I will read the 9.3 threads and I won't go out of my way to inject my unwanted opinions on the 338-06 or 35 Whelen. I won't take "bottom feeding" pop shots at you -- honest. And in return, I ask that when a thread opens on the 338-06 and/or 35 Whelen, that the 9.3x62 crowd demonstrate a little self-restraint. I, and probably most 338-06 and 35 Whelen fans, really don't give a damn about how the 9.3x62 has such "tremendous killing power" [BS] over the other two. Barstooler | |||
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There was a reason I tried to limit this thread, I was fully aware of the 9.3x62, but it seems to get plenty of press on its own without my help. I also attempted to keep the discussion in similar cartridge comparison, and yes the WR 318 is right in this pack. I did notice that Nosler is loading 338-06 ammo nowdays. When is Winchester going to start chambering it? ( Yeah right ) | |||
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schromf The 338-06 is a great caliber, as is the 35 Whelen, 350 Rem Mag, 9,3x62 and my favorite in a double rifle the 9,3x74R. These non magnum mediums are some of the best hunting calibers on the planet. They are not to much for deer sized game, and yet they kill BIG big game with no fuss, no muss. Do not be offended by my talking about the 338-06, the 35's and the 9,3's in the same sentence. They are all great calibers. With proper and correct choice in bullets I do not believe any animal could tell the difference. Read some of the older hunting books where the 318 Westley Richards, 333 Jeffery, and the 400/350 were used. A good Medium Bore is a great hunting rifle. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Hey Fred338 Fred, what gun is yours built on? I think you use Ruger #1's some. I had a Rem 700 hart built for me 338/06, shot best with IMR4320, did my homework for years before building, 23" Shot 2909, 200 ballistic tip 2790 fps with 215 2670 with 225's .4-.6" for 3 at 100 yds with 6x scope 1.25 all day, 200 yds speer/hornady/nosler all shot to EXACT poi at 200 yds with 225gr A stainless #1 with walnut stock would peek my interest. May have to build one again. Kepplinger trigger of course like my 6BR fast twist-it shoots under 1/2 moa w/o load work. | |||
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I am glad to see no flames in this thread ! I thought the one awhile back about burying the Whelen was just rediculas, I remember somthing in there saying the 9.3X62 was clearly better, What nonsence, they are all good cartridges, The OKH was a .33 caliber and bullets selection was I think a total of 1, as I remember old elmer had somebody make his. I like my whelen real well, But my smith has a old mauser with a modle 70 type saftey and a whole bunch of spendy parts and its a 20 inch manlicher,its a .338 06 AI, He agrees with my opinion that the AI is rather silly with the short barrel, but i would love to buy that one ! It would quickly have a VX3 1.5X5 Heavy duplex and i would probably take it On any hunt i go on exept Desert stuff, Makes me want to build a big bore manlicher myself ! Hell all these cartriges are great and the .338 just adds alittle more distance, I have one of those too I like it alot !!! ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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Yep, that was my exact thinking when I got my .338-06. I thought of it as a "poor man's" .318 Westley Richards. The .333 Jeffery (Rimless) also had similar ballistics; a 250 gr bullet at 2500 fps. There was also an equivalent British cartridge to the .35 Whelen back in the good ol' days. The .350 Rigby Magnum (Rimless) fired a .358" 225 gr bullet at approximately 2600 fps. That's exactly what Federal's .35 Whelen load does. (Now, due to a larger case and using modern powders, the .350 Rigby could be loaded to a higher velocity today.) So, if one wants to duplicate .318 W-R or .350 Rigby ballistics today, an easy route to take is to get a .338-06 or a .35 Whelen. I owned both a .338-06 and a .35 Whelen but I sold them when I got my 9.3x62. I just liked the 9.3 a little better. Not a big deal. Any of the three will kill game animals very dead. My two cents.... -Bob F.    | |||
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Last night I did some homework on this, and came up with a several conclusions. First was with 200 grain bullets in any of these cartridges, I would rather have the 30-06. The 8mm-06 is really the only one of these cartridges that competes with the 06 using 200 gr bullets. Second obeservation was looking at the 9.3x62 terminal ballistics, I was expecting more. I figured the Norma ammo was pretty much the gold standard there and its certainly not a 375 H&H and that these other cartridges can compete. Another obeservation which somewhat reinforced and old belief of mine, but at the same time put the 35 Whelen in a different light was bullets in the 35 cal. All the factory fodder pretty much sucks as I suspected. The one exception was the 250 gr load. But while I was studying the 35 Whelen data somethiing became very clear, and I started looking at premium projectiles. Swift and Woodliegh both make heavy 35 cal bullets, 280 and 310 gr. Handloading a 35 Whelen using a a 280 gr Swift A-Frame, it can compete with the 9.3x62's 286 gr loads and in the end I see a dead heat even match. Benefit to the Whelen is cheaper factory brass, and dies, bullet cost is a wash. I am suprised the Whelen fans haven't brought up this combo before. If someone has done some work and hunting with this, details would be appreciated. Then I eyeballed the 338-06. Of immmediate note was the 338-06 is to a 338 Win Mag, as is a 30-06 to a 300 WIn mag. Its 200 fps slower than the 338 mag, with all the pluses and minus. The same reasoning that applys to the 30 cal standard vrs mag argruments apply here. Depends on which side of the fence you decide to camp on. Additional velocity cannot be discounted in the magnums, but with that preformance is the additional burden of recoil. When I compare recoil on the 338 Mag, I place it firmly in competion with a 375 H&H, and thats a whole different story. I am not chapping on the 338 Mag, I just feel that if we chose to compare lets talk 338 Mag vrs 375 H&H, which leads to an N. American vrs African application. Back on the 338-06 its major drawback it is right one the edge of being a standard cartridge and until a major manufacturer jumps on this bandwagon, nothing is going to change its still a quasi wildcat. Interesting thought is that momentum is on its side right now, the ball is in motion so to speak, but I think the laws of physics apply here if that current momentum stops, its going to be real hard to get it moving again, if ever there was a time to get a 338-06 factory rifle in prodcution now is that time. I am aware of the very limited run of the Weatherby rifles, too few rifles, production wasn't long enough, and I think it wasn't in a popular rifle to start with, this needs either big green or Winchester involvement, although CZ could impact this with a catalog item I think. The round is a good one, really I hope it doesn't slide back into obscurity. But right now its off to the salt mine, more later, this thread has turned out better than I expected, and I invite more rational comments. | |||
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There's little disagreement about the performance. It's a coin flip. However from my understanding the 9.3 X 62 makes the grade as a legal DG round in African countries and the .358 don't.....if that's important. That said I truly suspect that none of us would build a 9.3 or a .35 whelen as a DG rifle. We'd all opt to the .375 H&H as a minimum and this leaves us with discussing a big game round. Certainly not a DG round. Assuming we have the .375 H&H then we soon discover that it's also a very excellent big game cartridge. It has range, power, versatility and is the final word in big game. Assuming one also owns a .30-06 there's no way he can justify something between those two cartridges. (unless he JUST WANTS one) In the end the decision between the .338, .358 and 9.3 is found in the decision to live with a "battery" and not a single decision. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Guys: Some interesting examples and thoughts have been given on this thread. This is great for a change, as most of the time this thread is strictly "opinion". Here's a couple of my thoughts on the subject. I don't own a 9.3X62, but own a 338-06 and a 35 Whelen. From my standpoint, and just my experience, I can't see any reason to use any bullets heavier than 250 grains in any of the three. If heavier than that is necessary, the 375 H&H etc, takes over. I believe the 338-06 is best with a 225 grain bullet @ 2700fps or so, I like the Whelen with a 250 grain bullet at 2600+(some guys get them up to 2700). I don't know much about the 9.3X62, but I looked at Hodgdon data for the 9.3X62, and their top load for a 250 grain bullet was with Varget, and the velocity was 2453 fps. That was at 47000, cup's or psi, I don't remember which way they measured it. Thats pretty average performance in my book. Also, I am sure a devout 9.3 fan can get the vels up to 338/Whelen velocities. Point is, I can't see a heck of a lot of difference to hang one's hat on. The bullet selection argument for any of the three, is not relevant as all have a great bullet or two to select from. And I say again, once most shooters find the right load combination, they stick with it. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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Yes that would certainly be a consideration, I would differ any comment on that subject to individuals much more knowledgable on the subject. But back at you do you think a Brown Bear or an Elk could tell the difference in .008 bullet diameter and and 8 grs of bullet weight at similar velocity. The Whelen was an is a North American cartridge. | |||
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Schromf, I think your missing the point as to why that thread turns to the .338 Win. To me it makes all the since in the world...and I have used them all at one time or another for hunting and for.. My reasoning would be they are ALL on the same action, weigh the same and recoil the same and the 338 Win. can beat the socks off all of them...If you want you can load it DOWN to a 338-06 or Load it up to a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS and a 300 gr. Woodleigh to 2450 FPS and walk with the big boys... Anyway that is why that scenario always takes place.. For what its worth... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Once upon a time a guy was in love with three women. All were beautiful and all were caring of him but he couldn't decide which one to marry. So he gave each of them $5,000 to do with as they pleased. He wanted to see how they handled money. The first woman spent all the money on buying gifts for him. She was totally interested in making him happy and used the money it that goal. The second woman invested the money in a business and doubled it and returned to him $10,000. She too wanted him to have the best. The third woman took the money and paid off his credit card debt and had a little left over and with that she took him out to dinner and then to a motel for the night. So which onee did he marry????? The answer is obvious to any man. There's a simple answer to all these questions. We can analize till the cows come home and in the end the answer is right in front of our face. He married the one with the big tits. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Ray, absolutely a true statement, no disargreement from me at all. But the 338 Win Mag doesn't beat the socks off a 375 H&H which is a much more even comparison in my mind. Action length favors the 338 Win Mag, but in current production rifles this is less of an issue as it once was, and I have read your old posts concerning long bolt throw and 3/8" extra doesn't mean much to either of us. My whole purpose of this thread is for N. American use this is definately a whole pack of underdog cartridges. It isn't any trying to detract from the 338 mag, yes if I was headed North I would rather have the 338 mag, but I certainly don't see a need to sell my 30 mags, or my 375 H&H because they are inadequate. | |||
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I wonder if the hunters/shooters back in "the good old days" had these same discussions concerning the 8x60S Mauser vs the .318 Westley Richards vs the .333 Jeffery vs the .350 Rigby Magnum vs the 9.3x62??? I bet some did. Of course, they didn't have the Internet back in those days!! With the Internet, our campfire has just gotten bigger and there's more people around the fire. -Bob F. | |||
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   577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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great post bob  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I understand rationale for 338 mag, some preferences to Whelen and 9.3 For me, I had a Win Mag at same time and it kicked more than I wanted. It may have been around 7.5 lbs vs 8 for 338/06, but the '06 was plenty of muscle for what I do. EASY to load, VERY accurate and easy enough to be shootable. To each their own and they will ALL do the job I agree. I did hear Finn Aaggard I believe say he liked the more substantial shoulder on the 338/06 vs the Whelen for headspace, yet I know there are 375, 411 hawks out there on the 06 case. The 338/06 represented all the power I could use and at a tolerable recoil level. The Magnum bordered being 'painful' Guess too many 6 and 7BR outings have my tolerance for recoil down. Magnum is simple, factory gun and good ammo, GREAT round I love it. In the end, the bullet is what kills and I find when pushed out of the '06 case, it does all I need it to do. Good shooting. | |||
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I thought we all agreed that we were going to skip this disgussion this week. Oh, that must have been last week, my bad, carry on.  (Vapodogs abuse of a nags carcass pic here)  | |||
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Schromf, I have no arguement with that, I also have a 300 H&H and a 375 that I am not going to part with anytime soon, but for the NA continent I prefer the .338 Win by a slight margin, I guess, depends on the day of the weak. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I like the .338-06 for the same reasons I like the 9.3x62. I guess my reason for not being a fan of .300 Mags and .338 Mags is that if I want something bigger (and harder kicking) than a 7mm of some sort, I want it a bunch bigger and jump straight to the .375. The .338-06 and 9.3x62 will fill in that medium caliber spot without being real heavy or high recoil. I used my 9.3x62 this spring on a BC bear and was suprised when the guide said he'd seen several of them used before and was impressed with the cartridge particularly on moose. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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I can definately relate to that | |||
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Ray, you must be punch drunk if you can't tell the diference in recoil between a .338-06 and .338 Win mag. I have a .338-06, .35 Whelen, .338 mag and .338-8mag wildcat, and I can sure tell the difference between the '06 based cases and the magnums. | |||
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Maybe so, I sure am glad if thats the case..In equal rifles I cannot tell any difference... Look at it this way..a 210 Nosler at 2800 FPS from a 338-06 and a 210 Nosler at 3000 from a .338 Win, Now tell me their is a huge difference in recoil at the 200 FPS variation, I think not, at least not to most of us.....With a 250 gr. the diversion is even less with a difference of 166 FPS with max loads. Probably your comparing rifles of different weight, bullet weights to come to your conclusion...that would be my guess... I had a M-70 FWT in 338-06 that kicked much worse than my Custom Mauser .338 Win.... Lots of varibles you have to consider. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Kind of like saying there is no difference in recoil between a .30-06 and a .300 Winchester. I would imagine that 99% of the shooters in the world can feel the difference, even if the magnum weighs more. We didn't inherit the land from our fathers, we're borrowing it from our children. | |||
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The felt recoil IMPULSE do to increased bullet velocity and additional powder mass is 12% if you were using identical rifles. Is that a huge difference ????????????  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Ray, A long time ago I came to a conclusion that individual rifles matter more to me than what the rifles are chambered in. I have my favorite cartridges and rounds that qualify as toads in my mind, we all do. But given a rifle I don't like in round I favor, and a rifle I like in a round I am neutral on, I will usually opt for the rifle I like. No that doesn't mean I fund ridiculos projects, when I am building I want both chambering and rifle, for a good combination. I make no bones I favor 7mm's, and 30's. And truth be known although I like my 375 H&H a lot, its heavy, and more rifle than I need for the hunting that I usually do. I don't grizzly bear hunt reqularly, don't need it for blacks, really don't need it on deer, and would rather pack a handier rifle on a elk hunt. You know Idaho's game regs, moose tags are a crap shoot, then its once in a lifetime. Africa for me is a dream, even if I could break away from work, its not something I am likely to fund. Yes somebody in a week moment is going to offer for sale their Model 70 Alaskan chambered in 338 Win Mag, and I will add it to my rifles if the price is right. I can definately see me doing that, and let me say straight up I don't fund mistakes, maybes or unknowns anymore. I think the "average" American hunter is in my boat, Canadians have some more flexibility, and Alaska is not average. For this average hunter for lack of a better word, the rounds being discussed in this thread are overlooked and more than adequate cartridges, and practicle from an economic perspective. I have no statistics to support it but the average hunter really buys a deer rifle, with the odd elk or moose every few years, and I guess this applys to 80% of the hunters. I being fortunate can elk hunt yearly on a resident tag, which probably bumps me out of the average group, and the guaranteed yearly elk tag states are just a few, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, not sure on Wahington or New Mexico any more, anyway we are a small number in the total hunters. My purpose of this thread was this pack of rounds are the Rodney Dangerfields of this board, and they deserve a little better. No I am not running out to build one, but I wouldn't look a gift of one of these in the teeth either. | |||
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