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It was silent but deadly.  A British sniper set a world sharpshooting record by taking out two Taliban soldiers in Afghanistan from more than a mile and a half away -- a distance so great, experts say the terrorists wouldn't have even heard the shots. Craig Harrison killed the two insurgents from an astounding distance of 8,120 feet -- or 1.54 miles -- in Helmand Province last November firing an Accuracy International L11583 long-range rifle. "The first round hit a machine-gunner in the stomach and killed him outright," said Harrison, a corporal of horse in the British Army's Household Cavalry, the equivalent of a sergeant in the American military. "The second insurgent grabbed the weapon and turned as my second shot hit him in the side. He went down, too," Harrison told the Sunday Times of London. The shots -- measured via GPS -- surpassed the previous record held by Canadian Army Cpl. Rob Furlong, who killed an al Qaeda gunman from 7,972 feet in 2002. Harrison's shots were roughly equal to the distance between the Statue of Liberty and Battery Park. Experts called Harrison's sharp shooting as perfect as it gets. "When you are shooting that far, if you miss by a hair, you miss by a mile," said John Plaster, a retired US Army sharp-shooting instructor and author of "The Ultimate Sniper." "That is about as precise as any marksmen on the planet could shoot." He said Harrison's targets likely never knew what was coming. "At a distance like that they cannot even see anyone and they would not even hear the muzzle report," Plaster said. Harrison, who fired the bullets while his colleagues were under fire, said perfect weather helped him nail the perfect shot. "[There was] no wind, mild weather, clear visibility," he said. Harrison learned of his record nine days ago, when he returned to England. In the weeks after his record shot, he suffered a minor gunshot wound and broke his arms when his vehicle hit a roadside bomb. | ||
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Thank you Corporal Harrison for defending freedom. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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Two more assholes looking for their virgins. Perry | |||
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anybody know any more about the L11583? what model is it and what options? I went to the website but couldn't figure that out. I like his modesty, downplaying it and putting in the bit about the wind and weather. Red | |||
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And what caliber??? .338 Lapua??? .50 BMG??? or what? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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That is the L115A3 (Not 83) Firing the 338Lapua. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...cy_International_AWM I expected this ctg to catch on more quickly. The lack of availability in normal price hunting guns is disappointing. I guess to appeal to a 'certain' market a black plastic stock with multitude of special gimmicks is required. And naturally, a $4,000 price tag to assure the buyer all mil-spec's have been meet! The real respect should kick in when these get banned in CA and NY. | |||
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It's a misprint, it is actually a L115A3, 8.59mm bullet http://www.army.mod.uk/equipme...rt-weapons/1459.aspx Jim fur, feathers, & meat in the freezer  "Pass it on to your kids" | |||
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I bet sales of the 338 Lapua will go up. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I own the AW series which is basically the same with the exception of the fore-stock, upper rail (folded) and a few other gizmos. My ability on my best day is a 9 for 10 hit on a 22"X22" plate at 1600 yards. Beyond that It's a matter of my own loading deficiencies, lack of components and my shooting skills. In my opinion anything past 1500 to 1700 yards (with consistency) is magic that can only be achieved by those that have access to equipment and components not available to the general public. I guess that's why we only hear of "military" records at those ranges. Keeping a 250 or 300 grain bullet supersonic to 1600 yards is a feat all in it's own let a lone accuracy. Now go for another 900 to 1000 yards and hit a target 14" to 18" wide twice! This is insane! When you really think about it, it kind of defies all that has been done and seems to violate physics in some capacity. I would kill for the load data and barrel make-up that was used in those two shots! | |||
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Do they only mention one person? I would have assumed this type of shooting required a two man team. | |||
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He had a spotter - the driver of the vehicle he was in acted as a spotter for him. | |||
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I'm gonna hazard to guess the reason we only hear about military personnel doing this is it would be, err, illegal for the rest of us  so anybody breaking records not in the military is probably keeping it hush hush.Red | |||
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I have enjoyed shooting my Blaser 338LM for about three years ( and my 308 Blaser a bit longer) now-- I'm looking very closely at building or buying 408 Chey-Tac.(M vel 2890 vs the 50's 2770) It surpasses the 50BMG in energy at 800m (4074 to 4027). ( bullet 419 vs 670, BC .949 vs .630) At 1500m its time of flight is 2.36 to the 50's 3.00 and retained energy is 2150 as to the 50's 1668, with velocity of 1520 compared to the 50's 1067. Looks to be the next anti-personnel long range champ. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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The 375 Rigby variants or 375 Chey-Tac would be better than the 408 IMHO 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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fourbore, I think I saw in a recent American Rifleman that Savage has a version of their 110 bolt gun in 338 Lapua, and I would bet the price is not $4K... | |||
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I found a savage for $2200 really fits the stereo typical Rambo style gun. I am sure all that "stuff" increases accuracy 10 fold. This is the 110BA (bad ass?) Savage has got a good reputation for accuracy vs dollar. And, I am not very good, or patient, with my slow connection to struggle threw their website in search of a normal looking rifle. I see an 1800 Palmer (308win) target Savage at $1800. So the pricing seems fair, or consistent, enough, and at least they do offer a Lapua. For some reason the ctg is offered only in a Rambo gun? Why is that? The 223 is offered in Rambo guns and normal guns. | |||
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The gun you're talking about is the BA110. I think everyone knows I'm a huge Savage fan but I have to admit that I think Savage got it wrong on this one.  It's a run-off of their successful BAS/10-K in .308, the problem here is the barrel is comprised in only "carbon steel". The .338 LM is a very hot round and will burn that barrel up in no time not to mention rapid expansion and contraction (a real accuracy killer).Chrome-moly is the way to go here and I can't believe Savage didn't test out past 500 rounds! It's also available in 300 WM, perhaps more suitable for the CS barrel? I would recommend Armalite, AI and Barret for those looking at the Lapua for sniper purposes. Remington has a special run Lapua series but I would stay away from that as well. | |||
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New information, I did not know this. Special steel required, that might limit the offerings to special guns. Manufactures hate to build special stuff, unless there is a big premium to be had. The RUM ctgs seem similar in capacity. Lapua is loaded "hot"? Either hunting or sniping, seems to me - you don't need an accurate string of shot, you need 'one' shot clean kill from a cold barrel. I want to be truthful, I am not in the market for a Lapua, just making a passing comment that there are not as many guns offered as I would have expected. High recoil, short barrel life, expensive ammo, maybe all add up to explain why. The topper for a guy like me, with no real need, if I was to drop big bucks for a "BA" style gun, I just opt for an entry level 50 BMG single shot. I looked at the Lapua in my reloading manual and though it had hunting potential similar to 340 Wby or 338 RUM. I am more a 375H&H guy, so I dont really know about these HiVel ctgs. It sounds like the Lapua is too hard on barrels to compete with more conventional rounds? Or do the better rifle builders offer chrome molly barrels? | |||
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I wouldn't say "better builders" but perhaps more experienced with this round. The Lapua is interesting in that the data offered for the civilian market seems to be very different than the military applications we hear all the hype about. I want to know how the he!! the new record holder droped two targets 18" wide out at 8,200 feet or roughly 2700 yards keeping his bullet supersonic! That load data can not be found anywhere! As far as I know, there is no load data that will keep a 250+ grain projectile supersonic past 1800 yards! So there is something missing with this round and I think it's very simple. Military weapons are built to tolerate higher pressures than civilian rifles limiting effective ranges. The proof is in the loading manuals and follow up testing! There is no doubt about it. You're better off (based on the current lapua loading data) to go with the 300 WM! Not to many people have put this 2+2 together yet and seem to be held on ranges within current manuals not questioning military achievements. What's up here? | |||
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Impressive shooting there lad!!!!!! | |||
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I can't help being surprised about publishing pictures and names of active service members on a public website?? I realize this information is likely already in the public domain - thanks to our sensation seeking press. Still, I can't see the purpose of that specific information being published here. After all, the firearms specific issues could well be discussed without such details. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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mho I can't believe they published his name etc in the newspapers. Pretty obvious where he could be stationed. | |||
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The bullets were not supersonic at that range. Chrome-moly is not stainless steel, it's carbon steel. .338 Lapua is just a little hotter than .338 RUM. | |||
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Dont forget altitude will play a huge part too. | |||
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on top of it all he fired 3 shots, killing the terrorists with the first 2 and hitting their machine gun with the 3rd | |||
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Hey there..BECoole, I have been a certified aircraft welder for over 25 years and a certified/licensed inspector for about 15 years now. If there is one thing I know...It's metal! The first thing we need to get straight here is the spelling it's: Chromoly NOT Chrome-Moly. Chromoly is like steel on steroids. It contains Chromium and molybdenum a splash of carbon and mostly iron. When the mixture is correct and hot rolled, this is one of the worlds strongest metals! It is about 2 1/2 times stronger than regular carbon steel. It also has a much higher heat tolerance since the molecules are much more dense. This is what the military uses on all cannon, tank, artillery and basically everything that spits out a projectile. Now for the "not super sonic" part. If this is true, how in the heck is the projectile stabilized and at what point does it go sub-sonic? Mathematically speaking and based on all my tests, I just don't see how this can happen? Unless it goes sub-sonic at perhaps 2500 yards, but still, how do you keep the projectile super-sonic at 2500 yards? Finally "The Lapua is just a little hotter than the .338 RUM" You are 100% correct based on current loading data. However, the mystery still stands at the military's magic Lapua rounds reaching out 2700 yards with less than 16" M.O.A. I think I am right based on all the available info that the military is using weapons that have a higher pressure tolerance built into the breech, bbl and receiver allowing them to surpass civilian load data and have developed their own long range data that is not available to civilians. Someone please prove me wrong! I want that data! | |||
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Has anyone considered the possibility that it didn't happen the way it was told? I've heard these long range stories many times, and skepticism is appropriate IMO. Seems that a good percentage of those who claim such-and-such are as good or better at exaggeration as shooting. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Before I bought my .408 Cheytac I got the opportunity to go to the Yuma proving grounds and watch some testing that was being done on it as well as other LR rounds including the Lapua. The SAFR requirement was to punch a 20"X30" plate at 1500 meters (5 round volley). There were several calibers but the top 4 as I remember were 1> .408 Ct, 2> .338 Lapua, 3> .300WM, 4> .50BMG. The fifty had accuracy problems the day I was there but from what I understand came up in the ranking a few days later. The key here is that I saw the Lapua effortlessly ping it's target and just for good measures the OIC moved the target out to 2000 yards were the Lapua continued to ping its target. I was there to watch the Cheytac and I am glad I purchased it but I wish I put a little more attention into the Lapua. At the time the Cheytac beat everyone on the line hands down due to its ballistic characteristics the weapon itself and simple math. But what I want to know is; what type of changes (militarily) have been made to the Lapua round that it know competes with the .408 and has magically wondered off to the 2700 yard line? I don't have any reason to think they are filling us with BS., I just think that the round has been modified as well as the weapon (s) to shoot higher pressure loads!?????? | |||
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Considering it says he learn't about it after returning to England, I would disagree with you. And they say it was measured by GPS. It could have all come out in the after action report - which was when someone might have made a note of the distance when they realised how far it was. | |||
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You don't need to be super sonic for stabilization. We shoot .308 at 1,000 all the time that isn't supersonic. I shoot .22LR out to 200yds in Mini-Palma that wasn't supersonic when it left the muzzle. Spin is what stabilizes.
I didn't see any elevation quotes, and using a 250gr Scenar @ 3,000fps, there isn't any way that is accurate. In fact, it goes subsonic about 1600yds. Brass is the limiting factor on loads. Go to JBMballistics.com and run the numbers. It looks like you'd still have about 800fps at 2,800yds, which is pretty much like getting hit by a .45 auto. | |||
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"harassing fire out to 1,100 metres," I guess shooting two guys dead counts as the ultimate in harassing fire!!! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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The 250 Lock-base was the initial "std' mil-spec round, the 250 Scenar, 300 Scenar ,AP , and other special purpose rounds by Lapua and others followed. The bullets are not supersonic at the distance of the killing hits in this story. No magical super-velocity, super pressure, "secret" military recipe. They are most likely boattails , whether Scenar or another "brand' name. Generally,speaking, boattails pass the trans-sonic zone as they slow with greater stability and mantain that stability than do flat base designs. Flat base on the other hand were generally preferred by benchrest shooters out to 300yds, appearing to be more accurrate at the 100 to 300yd distances. (may still be, I have not competed in several years.) DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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[QUOTE} I didn't see any elevation quotes, and using a 250gr Scenar @ 3,000fps, there isn't any way that is accurate. In fact, it goes subsonic about 1600yds. Brass is the limiting factor on loads. Go to JBMballistics.com and run the numbers. It looks like you'd still have about 800fps at 2,800yds, which is pretty much like getting hit by a .45 auto.[/QUOTE] ================================================================================================ I'm not sure what you are saying in the top "I didn't see any elevation quotes, and using a 250gr Scenar @ 3,000fps, there isn't any way that is accurate." ? But in any event, your data is true based on C.O.E software and printed data but is ballistically inaccurate in the field. With the load you provided we have 14 or 15 tests that indicate 319 FPS at 2700 YDS less 3 minutes. But even out where the speed is around 8 and 900 FPS, the dimensional properties not just the Senar but any known bullet (.338 cal)is going to fail stabilization (POA). It may hold spin, but it's AOF (angle of flight) will be well into the 80% range giving you absolutely no accuracy at all. The fact is, we need 1190 FPS in the 250 size projectile (min, coe .725) to achieve consistent (POI) point of impact and keep the (AOF) in the upper 60% range. The number fits mathematically and confirms our field tests for the dimensional values of this projectile. You can't compare the .45 auto muzzle speed, bullet dimensions and flight characteristics to that of the .338 down range ballistics. I know you're smart enough to know this so I won't go in to it. But just for grins, really look into this. I have been for the last two years or so! I have plenty of available case space left to bump my current load up to 102 grains and get the velocity I need to make it happen. (16 more grains). Problem is, without an internal Rockwell, I'm not going to push my chamber knowing it may fail. BTW, some day there will be transporters, just like Star-Trek. Then you can just beam on over and we can go over our data, bang heads, have a beer and probably not come up with anything. But it sure beats the online debate!  | |||
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Given the commercial Balistics on the 338 Luapa I say they have tweaked the Cartridge just aliittle to get out to the range these shots were made - no other way to explain the ability to get over TWICE the effective range! As the sniper said the conditions were perfect! That takes alott of the guess work out of that extra-ordinary shot! Good on him any way you can kill them do it !!! One shot One Kill | |||
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One shot One Kill | |||
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WhatThe I have never seen any proof that milltary rifles are built to take higher pressure. Most likely just the opposite They are built to take ammo that work in at very specific opperating pressures. More so with the auto weapons or semi autos on the civie side they need a certain pressure range to operate properly. With lieabilty the way it is know one is going to make a weapon that isn't going to operating properly/safely with what ever ammo of the proper kind is going to put in it. Ie 223 rem or 5.56 mil. A cilvilen rifle has to work with a much wider range of ammo then a milltary one from 30gr varmint ammo to 80 gr vlds. where the mil rifles only have to operate properly with the standard mil ammo. | |||
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I'm saying, I have no idea where you are oming up with this "16MOA elevation" figure. Even if he was starting with a 1,000yd zero he would need far more elevation.
Apparently you are wrong. He did it. No magic barrels, bullets, overloaded cartridges or anything else except skill & luck involved. I argue that there are plenty of instances of boattail bullets maintaining stability well below supersonic. I just saw someone shoot 75gr AMAX out of a .223 accurately out to 1,700 yards. That calculates out to about 800fps at range.
A 230gr .45 moving 800fps is indeed very similar to a 250gr .338 at the same speed - plenty of wallop! Internal Rockwell??? Where are you going? Are you talking about having a special steel so you can overload your rifle? The brass case is the limiting factor, not a modern action or barrel. | |||
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I agree to the point of "NATO" compatibility in that standard issue weapons comply with NATO specifications. However, specialty weapons such as a sniper rifle are not required to meet those specs. Therefore the military (in this case) the BCSF (British Commando Special Forces) are free to pursue weapons to facilitate their needs as long as it complies with the regulations set by The Geneva Convention. These are pretty lose in order and as far as I know, have not limited the size of a projectile but rather it's design i.e. No SP's, HP's etc. therefore the famous FMJ. You can still plug someone with an incendiary round though! | |||
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I think some of the bullets used in the 2 theatres had plastic tips on them. They might have been used by Contractors as opposed to Mil Forces but some discussion was had when it was noticed in a photo. What's the law on Contractors and the Geneva Convention ? Anyone know ? | |||
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Okay guy's we are over my head here, but we know they are doing it. How about saboted bullets? Seems like the reports on the remington 22 cal sabots fired in the 3006 rifles were fast and accurate. Could be A game changer. | |||
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