quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Ill go with the 220 @3000 fps for long range
target shooting.

whynot the 220 for hunting

quote:

whynot the 220 for hunting

I do use the 220 sometime to hunt but I use a different bullet for looonng range shooting.


sorry boomstick!

I currently own both a .338 Win and a .300 RUM. I recently decided to sell the .300 RUM. I'm getting excellent accuracy from the RUM, .6 MOA, but it is so close in power to the .338 that I feel I don't need it. Besides the .338 kicks less, uses way less powder and I get 3050 fps with a 210 Partition and .75 MOA. What more could anyone want?? I'm zeroed at 270 yards and good to well over 400 yards for elk. I bought a .270 WSM to replace the RUM. I felt this was much more suited to deer and antelope

Recoil is relative to something. I shoot my .340 Weatherby for the thrill of the feel of the thing going off. I don't like 30-30s' though (make my shoulder hurt)

388 Winchester is about as good as it gets , I played with and hunted with a bunch of different cartridges over the years. You could spend the next 50 or so years shooting 10 or 15 head a year and not being able to tell a wits difference. The reality of of it all, in North America and for a good bit of the rest of the world a .30-06 will due. The rest of it is just picking nits. Shoot what ever it is that you want and give it a rest.

does anyone know how the sierra 240s do in hunting? i see that the b.c. for this bullet is over seven!

quote:

Originally posted by ajwsm:
the 338 win mag is old news there are several 30s out now with more knockdown power and long range preformance than the old 338

Yeah, but last time I checked, the 338 win mag is still shooting .338" bullets, and the hot 30's are still limited to shooting .308" bullets.

I don't know a single hunter of larger game that has gotten rid of a 338 mag in preference of the hotter 30's. It will always be the bullet that does the work, and there are times with 30 caliber bullets just aren't the best choice for the task at hand, no matter how heavy they are, or what their BC, SD or BS coeficient is.

338 WM, 21" barrel, 210 TSX at 2,975 fps, 8.25lb's field-ready... I'd take it all day long over any ultra-gag.

i am not saying that the 338 is a pile of crap, it is great and will continue to be a great standard cart. i am getting feedback on comparing to the 300 rum

The time tested 338 is an excellent round but cant hold a candle to the 300RUM in overall preformance

quote:

Originally posted by ajwsm:
The time tested 338 is an excellent round but cant hold a candle to the 300RUM in overall preformance

Please enlighten me, I'm all ears.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by ajwsm:
The time tested 338 is an excellent round but cant hold a candle to the 300RUM in overall preformance

Please enlighten me, I'm all ears.

Mee too. I would like to hear how the .338WM does not hold a candle against the .338WM, specially in bear country such as Alaska.

If I got either one of either it would probably in a win mod 70. They both come in 26" barrels and the rifles are nearly identical.

I did have one of those in a 300 ultra. I was shooting 200's at 3200, 220's at 3050 and 240's at 2850.

The recoil was fine . I will probably get another one.

What gets me is that win uses the same action for both. They just put a spacer in the mag and use a different ejector and bolt stop for the winny. I would prefer to use the mag space. Especially since the mod 70 I have now is a 300 win.

I would go with the 300 ultra. Since the bag limit on Brown bears up here is one every four years at best. And it is nearly impossible for a resident to draw a tag for a Kodiak up here.

I am fond of 250's in the 338 ruger though. It was my first rifle at 15 years old and it might be time to get another one for old times sake.

a 300 RUM will push a 165gr sierra at 3750fps and that generates a ME of 5150 ft Lbs I highly doubt any 338 reload can prduce that kind of muzzle energy

I shoot the 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS, the 250 gr. at 2660 FPS and the 300 gr. Woodliegh at 2450 FPS in my .338 Win., I have not found it lacking on Duiker, Mule Deer and for that matter Cape Buffalo, so I will just hang in there with my old .338 Win...

As to that extra velocity of the RUM, thats just a phase that most hunters go through until they find out that all that flat trajectory is absorbed by distance and hunting conditions..You can only hit at so far, depending on your capabilities, short of the accidents that you remember, and the misses you don't recall!

sjwsm,
Try shooting a Cape buffalo or elephant with all that 165 grs. worth of energy..energy is a nothing more than a worthless figure in the game fields of the world...penitration, cross section of bullet, and blood loss is what kills big animals meaning no disrespect, but your post is misleading IMO..

You are the oricle of hunting and you have proved with your own personal accounts that the 338 is suitable for any game on the planet thanx

AJWSM, to push a 165 gr. Sierra SPBT to 3750 fps with a 300 RUM, 26" barrel, and Retumbo powder will take 95,000 PSI - not responsible reloading. 3450 fps is more realistic with 65,000 PSI.

What would i benifit from lying 100.5gr of rel #22 27in Lijia barrel TRG-S action and an H&S aluminum beded stock I dont know the PSI but It can repeat the preformance time and time again thanks for the concern though

People on these forums who qoute energy figures and are enamored with mega velocity are generally dsiplaying their lack of expreience in the game fields... on the other hand you're obviously a good spirited and funny guy!

quote:

ajwsm's quote...

a 300 RUM will push a 165gr sierra at 3750fps and that generates a ME of 5150 ft Lbs I highly doubt any 338 reload can prduce that kind of muzzle energy

Your comments lead me to believe that you don't have a lot of experience in real world hunting...

However, I agree with Brad...

quote:

People on these forums who qoute energy figures and are enamored with mega velocity are generally dsiplaying their lack of expreience in the game fields... on the other hand you're obviously a good spirited and funny guy!

I would much prefer a 210 Nosler at 2900 fps, than the Sierra at 3700. That bullet would likely explode upon impact, and the energy would mean nothing. Unless, the bullet had slowed to a velocity that the bullet was originally designed for. I don't know what range that would be for that given load, but I'm not one to shoot at critters that are waaaaay out there.

Keep in mind that a 30-06 will do 95% of the worlds hunting for you.

ajwsm, I'm not accusing you of lying, but you're loading dangerously HOT! One should try to stay within 65,000 PSI. QL predicts...

300 RUM, 27" barrel
100.7 grs Re22 165 gr. Sierra BT
3635fps,80,000 PSI-at 3750 your over 80,000 PSI!

3750 fps you're closer to 91,000 PSI

94.5 grs. Re22 - 3431 fps @ 65,000 PSI (much safer)

Also, you're under estimating the 338 WinMAG.

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 250, SRA SPBT 2600
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch or 685.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Retumbo/119.4% filling/81.2/2904fps/65000
Reloder-25/116.4%filling/78.3/2893fps/65000

At 2900 fps/250 grs. bullet thats 4664 ft# energy - more than enough.

A lot of these numbers, even if they are real and/or achievable, are of more theoretical advantage than anything else. The truth is, close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades, and unless someone can really and truly SHOOT one of these speed monsters with precision (no subconscious flinch) then the numbers don't mean anything.

Another point: Just buying a 300 RUM doesn't mean anything. One customer at a local gunstore claimed the 300 RUM he purchased didn't deliver more than 3100 FPS. with 180 gr. loads (at least the ones he tried). Any rifle/cartridge combination you invest in is only as accurate as you can shoot in under field conditions, and it's only as fast as the chronograph says it to be.

Quite honestly, I think the 300 RUM is more of a pilgrim's cartridge -- designed to appease the peasants (bigger's always better!) and sell new merchandise for Remington -- than it is anything else. Once you get past 30-06 velocities, the next level of .308 performance occurs between 3000-3100 fps. with 180 gr. bullets. More velocity than that gains you very little advantage in either killing power or practical trajectory, as I've observed many times. I don't care about paper & pencil theory, I mean real-world application. One of my local friends, for several years, carried a 30-378 Weatherby, and there was virtually no difference that either one of us could see between the way it ironed-out deer and elk versus a 300 Win. or 300 Wby. It DID kick like heck, and it was incredibly loud, plus with a 26" bbl. (and 2" or muzzle break) and a weight of over 10 lbs. all-up, it was an absolute pain in the neck to carry anywhere other than from the truck to the shooting bench at the range. It wasn't a practical rifle, and that particular rifle had an accuracy life of 800 rounds, and after than the barrel was SHOTTTTTTTTTTTTT................

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Just for fun, I did a comparison of 30-06 std, 30-06 AI, 300 WM, and 300 RUM on QL using max PSI of 65,000 for each, 27†barrel, 165 gr. Sierra BT, and AVAILABE slow-burning powders that would give max performance for each. Note that the max velocities for each is:

30-06 std - 3177
30-06 AI - 3257
300 WM - 3406
300 RUM - 3465

I see no significant difference between the 30-06 std and 30-06AI and no significant difference between the 300 WM and the 300 RUM. The RUM is “gas guzzler.â€

Cartridge: .30-06 Spring.
Bullet: .308, 165, SRA SPBT 2145
O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch
Barrel Length: 27.0 inch

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 Mpa or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window. C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations. USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

VihtN560/112.4%/67.5g/3177 fps
Reloader-22/115.2%/67.1g/3164 fps
MAGPRO/115.3%/70.4g/3162 fps
WXR/114.0%/67.4g/3162 fps
7828 SSC/112.6%/66.6g/3142 fps

Cartridge: .30-06 Ack Imp
Bullet: .308, 165, SRA SPBT
Cartridge O.A.L.: 3.332 inch
Barrel Length: 27.0 inch

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

Vihtavuori N560/110.3%/ 71.4g/3257 fps
Accurate MAGPRO/113.2%/74.4g/3243 fps
Alliant Reloder-22/113.1%/70.9g/3239 fps


Cartridge: .300 Win. Mag.(N)
Bullet: .308, 165, SRA SPBT
O.A.L.: 3.340 inch
Barrel Length: 27.0 inch

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

Retumbo/111.7%/90.4 g/3406 fps
N560/100.4%/84.4 g/3397 fps
(Big Boy)/104.9%/90.4 g/3395 fps
Reloder-25/108.8%/87.1 g/3393 fps


Cartridge: .300 Rem Ultra Mag
Bullet: .308, 165, SRA SPBT 2145
O.A.L. L6: 3.598 inch
Barrel Length: 27.0 inch

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders. Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

Vihtavuori N560/93.9%/95.2g/3465 fps
Ramshot (Big Boy)/98.1%/102.0g/3458 fps
MAGPRO/96.4%/99.3g/3457 fps
IMR 7828 SSC/94.8%/94.6g/3455 fps
Hodgdon Retumbo/104.1%/101.7g/3451 fps
Alliant Reloder-25/101.4%/97.9g/ 3440 fps

Just for grins, and assuming you can in fact get that 165 grain projectile to that speed, and keep your face and fingers intact...

A Taylor KO Value of 35 with a bullet that weighs 250 grains, a velocity of 2904, and a diameter of .338.

A Taylor KO Value of 27 with a bullet that weighs 165 grains, a velocity of 3750, and a diameter of .308.

I'll still take the 338 Winchester, even at a more respectable velocity....

A Taylor KO Value of 33 with a bullet that weighs 250 grains, a velocity of 2700, and a diameter of .338.

It will hit harder, and more than likely kill quicker.

And if I use my favorite load in my 338, a Nosler 210 at 2900 fps, I'm still beating that little bomb...

A Taylor KO Value of 29 with a bullet that weighs 210 grains, a velocity of 2900, and a diameter of .338.

You know, there's a reason that Teddy said, "Walk softly, and carry a big stick."

In the case of the 300 RUM, you're better off trading velocity for bullet weight every time. It pays to keep your eyes on the numbers downrange (where the game is) rather than at the muzzle. High velocity alone does not a big game cartridge make. Even with my lowly 300 Win. Mag., I gave up on the lighter 150s & 165s long ago. The 180s and 200s are better in every meaningful way.........

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quote:

lowly 300 Win. Mag.

That's funny but is also a sad commentary on today's rifle scene.

I don't see how the 300 WM is "lowly" - it essentially matches the inefficient big over bores like the 300 RUM. Bigger is not necessarily better in this business. The 300 RUM is burning barrels up and losing accuracy by 500 rounds.

Acley, Allen's comment was certainly "tongue in cheek"...

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Acley, Allen's comment was certainly "tongue in cheek"...

You are correct about Allen, since he uses his .300WM along other cartridges.

There is a significant step from the .30-06 to the .300WM. If I had to choose between the .300WM and the .300RUM, I would pick the .300WM any time, and my reasons are as follows:

a. Both still use the same bullets
b. Higher velocity reduces penetration on game sometimes
c. The .300WM ammo is cheap (like the .338WM's)

I have 2 Rem 700 s/s BDL's with 26" barrels chambered in 300 RUM and 375 RUM.

When my 300 RUM with 200gr Swift A-Frame bullets @ 3200fps are not enough, I switch to my 375 RUM with 260gr Nosler Accubonds @ 3000fps or 300gr Partitions @ 2750fps.

Sorry guys but the 338 Win or 338 RUM just don't interest me.

.338 win.mag.thanks.

I completely agree the 300 RUM is a waste with lighter bullets. It's real advantage over the 300 Win is not more velocity, but being able to shoot bullets 20-30 grains heavier at the same velocity. Unfortunately some of that is negated by the lack of bullet choices above 200 grains--but that isn't the fault of the cartridge.

As for the Quickload predictions, with my experience with this cartridge and the program so far, I've come to the conclusion that the default .5 Weighting Factor is overly conservative in this round--especially for lighter bullets. If you read about what that is, it makes good sense that a lower one may be more appropriate. In any case, when it's consitantly predicting lower maximum charges and velocities with higher pressures than many reloading manuals I wouldn't put absolute faith in it without a bit of "adjusting."

For boom stick's question: Unless you really enjoy whacking things really hard far, far away, I'd say the 338 Win is easily the better choice. If you're into the above or want to be, that's where the 300 RUM really shines.

I shoot both the .338 Win and the .300 RUM a lot at long range.

At ranges beyond 600 yards, I run out of elevation with my .338 but can shoot out to 700 yards using the bottom post. I never miss because the .338 doesn't have enough velocity in terms of drop - hell, just laser the range and crank the knobs.

The only advantage the .300 RUM has in terms of distance is wind deflection. It is the most forgiving cartridge I have ever shot at long range in terms of wind deflection. But then again, give me a guy who shoots a .338 all day long, and he will be able to dope the wind better than a casual .300 RUM user.

To paraphrase Jim Carmichel's quote..."There are lots of 600 yard rifles...but where are the riflemen who practice at that range?"

I know I sound like a broken record, but practice is more important than the cartridge.

I have killed most of my game with a .338 Win Mag (or maybe a 7mm Rem). But I do like the .300 RUM.

Nosler's maximum load for the 300 RUM with a 165 gr. bullet and a 26" barrel is 3368 fps (90grs of Re22). QL is giving the 300 RUM more room than that. Nosler's maximum for the 300 WM with a 165 gr. bullet and a 24" barrel is 3290 fps (79 grs. of Re22) - two more inches of barrel and that's 3350 fps. Why bother with the RUM?

Once you reach the 30-338 Mag (308 Norma Mag) adding more case capacity buys very little added value in performance - just more over bore, with shorter barrel life, and increased expense to supply the "gas."

My 26" 300 RUM 180gr Scirroco load gives me 3361fps average velocity with 98.5grs Retumbo with 3/4" groups @ 100 yards and when I do my part 3" @ 300 yards. There is absolutely no pressure signs of any kind with this load.

An article on the 300 RUM by Brian Pierce in a popular magazine showed loads up to 101grs Retumbo as a max load with the 180gr Scirroco bullet.

75grs Norma MRP with a 180gr bullet gave me 3060fps in my 26" 308 Norma mag.

It may take a bit more fuel to get these velocities in my 300 RUM but it is totally worth it.

Nosler's 300 RUM data is worthless. Hogdon lists 3414 for the 165 out of a 24", Barnes lists loads over 3500, etc....

But that's not the point. The point is why bother with any 30 Cal Magnum to shoot 165's? That's a fine bullet weight for the 308 Winchester. The big magnums won't be very efficient with it and it's a waste IMHO.

One "bothers with" a RUM to shoot 200's as fast as the Win can shoot 180's, 220's faster than the Win can shoot 200's, and 240's nearly as fast as most shoot 200's from the Win.

Yes, a 500 HP engine is pretty worthless when one can't get traction because of his skinny all-season tires. All it does is "guzzle gas." That's not the engine's fault, it's the fault of the owner who doesn't know how to use it in a manor that allows it to perform up to its potential.

AZ, as usual, your comments are excellent.

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