I did a search on this forum - the whole forum - and found no thread on this cartridge.

It's something relatively new, developed by Wilson Combat for the AR15.

It's now SAAMI approved. https://www.wilsoncombat.com/300-hamr/

Here's load data from Wilson Combat:

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/w...LOAD-DATA-5-20F1.pdf

Anyway, I figure someone herein will find it interesting. I'm putting an upper together, and have bought dies, brass, powder, bullets as well as the parts for the upper. Some of it has not yet arrived.

Note: The barrel for this chambering is 1 in 13 inch twist rate, which I think is more appropriate (for my use) than the 1 in 7 " twist for the blackout.

BTW, I didn't know whether to start this thread in this section or the reloading section. So I chose this one since it's about the rifle as much as the cartridge and handloading it. Factory SAAMI spec ammo is available now.

Also BTW, my first bullet of choice, to try handloads, is the Barnes 130 gr TTSX, since I have about 80 bullets on the shelf already. Fortunately, I have a few hundred small rifle primers and some appropriate powder. I just ordered two boxes of the 130 gr TTSX and 100 pieces of brass, from Midway.

It seems that rare substance, unobtainium, , used for making primers, is in short supply these days.

Here's an interesting article from Handloader February/March 2019.

https://www.handloadermagazine...ooting-the-300-ham-r

Note: At that time Wilson was using 1 in 15" twist rate barrels, and the cartridge was not yet SAAMI approved.

He has since gone to 1 in 13" twist rate.

Now, I'm a little concerned that the case capacity and magazine capacity will not favor the Barnes TTSX 130 gr. I won't know for sure until I try a few loads. It may be a compressed load.

I'm also wondering if the RN bullets for the 30-30 will feed okay. Again, I won't know for sure until I try a few.

As I recall an interview with Bill Wilson, it’s biggest advantage is the round is impossible to chamber into a .223/5.56 chamber and thus promotes safety.

The .300 BLK has killed very big MN whitetail for me, and that’s out of a 9.something barrel.

I don’t think the Ham’r is a great progression over the .300 BLK performance wise, but it is a bit safer for those who have both chamberings around.

I don’t think a properly set up rifle will have issues with any of the bullets you mention, and as .30-30 bullets are made to expand at lower velocities, likely they will work very well.

The only thing that relatively slow twist barrel does is restrict the use of subsonics and heavy/long bullets.

If your goal is essentially a AR .30-30, the Ham’r is a good choice.

The BLK allows you to get easily obtained .223 brass and relatively easily convert it to .300 BLK. The Ham’r, you will be more at the mercy of finding appropriate brass, but the bullets are easier to get.


For pigs and deer, IMO, either works fine. The Ham’r might have an edge if you might shoot larger game with it.

I thought about it a lot before going this route.

I already have a 6.5 Grendel upper and consider it almost perfect for the AR deer/hog rifle. I also have a 6.5 Grendel in a custom built Ruger 77 MKII stainless action that was a 6mm PPC. My custom build is a sporter weight with a 20" stainless barrel - super accurate. I had it made before the cartridge became readily available in factory rifles.

I also have a 458 SOCOM carbine (16") and only recently got it feeding properly. I almost got rid of it. It was as simple as changing the magazine. Now, I'm really looking forward to playing with it and developing a favorite load. Factory ammo is way too expensive.

I got the urge for something new. I thought about a lever action in 357, or 44 mag or 30-30, but a decent one costs more than I can build an upper for, and I'm not used to the lever action anyway. Also, a good AR will shoot so accurately, it kinda spoils me and it's handy too.

I started considering the 350 Ledgen and quickly abandoned that idea. I don't like cartridges that headspace on the lip of the shell, And I think it's not actually .358. There are too many videos on youtube showing problems.

I considered the 6.8, but that's almost like the 6.5 Grendel. I wanted something different, yet practical. The 300 AR Remington died on the vine.

I never did have a use for the 300 BLK Out, but reconsidered it. I never had a use for 223 either, and still don't. I have no use for subsonic and if I did, I would likely go with a big bore - 44 or 45 caliber, in something that is easy to load subsonic, like the 44 mag or 45-70, etc. With Trail Boss powder the 458 Win Mag can be loaded subsonic! Just don't compress the powder with the seated bullet.

So, I started looking for a 300 BO barrel with a twist rate 1 in 10 or slower. I couldn't find one, nor a custom made one, but one barrel maker I spoke with said I should check out the 300 ham'r.

I called the folks at Wilson Combat and they were quite helpful.

Okay, to address your concerns -- I didn't know that the blackout would chamber in 223. I find that very odd, and in my estimation impossible. A 223 cartridge might chamber in a blackout or 350 L, and that could be a problem for one not paying attention.

Actually, the 1 in 13" twist calculates out to be the proper rate given bullet weight, diameter and velocity.

The blackout has the fast twist for the heavy subsonics. I do not believe that twist rate is the best of both sub and supersonic. The std twist rate for the 30-30 is 1 in 12", and that works for up to 170 gr RN bullets. I will not be using bullets heavier than 150 gr.

The only reason to shoot subsonic IMO is with a suppressor, and I do not plan on spending the money on one or jumping through the hoops to get one.

And besides that, a setup for both sub and supersonic, from the research I did, requires an adjustable gas block, and is a bit tricky functioning. I don't like tricky functioning. If I wanted a rifle to shoot subsonic, I would make it dedicated, and might not go the AR15 platform at all. I think the Henry lever rifle in 44 mag would be a good choice, especially their X Big Boy, which has a threaded barrel for a suppressor.

And I wouldn't form brass from 223 anyway. Properly headstamped and formed brass is readily available, at least right now, from Wilson, Midway, Graf and Sons. Those are the only sources I checked. I figure there's more. I got 200 pieces on the way so that should do me for a while. And the price ain't bad.

I've shot a lot of hogs with various calibers, and since mostly I'm shooting from a stand over a corn feeder, I pick my shots. So far DRT, right behind the ear. Something with 30-30 ballistics certainly ought to be satisfying for my purposes.

Frankly, a MOA single shot in practically any caliber from 243 and larger would serve my purpose well. I just like the AR15, except for hunting the spent brass.

It’s all about what you want!



I don’t have anything against the Ham’r, but as I already have the BLK in a pistol format, it meets the silly MN rules about what I can hunt deer with.

I’ve got a suppressor I can use with it, but haven’t, as I don’t need the aggravation from the fish cops when folks who don’t know the law call them.

Sounds like you’ve got the bases covered already.

The BLK can chamber in a .223. It usually results in damage to the gun. (The bullet gets set back in the case, and it gets swaged through the barrel if things don’t let go before that.). I’ve seen guns that folks did this with. .300 BLK and .223 don’t play well together if you are inattentive. That was Bill Wilson’s biggest point, although the modest increase in velocity and bullet weight don’t hurt it.

Have fun with the new toy!

I can see how the bolt thrust could set the bullet back, but I still don't see how the bolt thrust could be enough to also squeeze the neck down enough to allow the bolt to lock. Seems to me like the worst would be a bad jam.

Anyway, I won't have that problem since I won't have a 223. If someone gave me one, I'd sell it and buy something useful.

Also, I never considered an AR pistol format. If I did, I think the 45 acp would be good. But there are other pistol formats perhaps more traditional that I would favor over the AR15 for a short gun.

Like you said "It's all about what you want". Fortunately, we have the choices.

Re Wilson's point, from the reading I did, it was about the twist rate, which for the Blk Out is for the heavy subsonic first, and all the rest after-thought, or secondary.

Anyway, my point and Wilson's coincided re twist rate, with the added accuracy potential and velocity.

Seems to me the supposed "problem" could have been solved by offering Blk Out barrels in fast and slow twist rates. But they, whoever "they" are, chose to not do that, which is an opening for some innovator like Wilson, perhaps a small niche. But what amazed me is his inventory, which his web site says in stock, mostly. Someone did a lot of work and spent a lot of money making sure that the 300 ham'r had every opportunity to succeed and not fail because of lack of anything needed in inventory. He even published load data, and has all the tools for hand loading, including a tool to make sure the shoulder isn't set back too much and case length too.

In a dedicated suppressed semi-auto pistol platform it seems to me that the 45 acp would be hard to beat.

I found out in my research that there are several custom type shops that make really short AR15 barrels -- Lilja for one.

I don't understand that market.

I can also see the 458 SOCOM used, dedicated subsonic/suppressed, in a carbine AR format. But to me the range would be very short and special purpose, like in a building - not hunting.

Seems to me the AR15 market is indeed divided somewhat for those looking for fantasy toys compared to those looking for tools.

Me -- I take my toys seriously.

Hmm, your project is interesting timing for me. I think I'm about to get a 6.8 SPC built. I read that is intended for carbine stuff and I've seen load development with the TSX.
I'm already into the suppressor stuff so I'm sure I'll go that route here. I guess I don't have anything to hunt with it.

Would you want to use your 458 on moose or not? Purely your opinion, no need for facts or logic.

My 300blk 1-8twist likes light bullets like Sierra varminter 110gr, Horn Vmax 100gr, 115gr Berger hpfb. I does not like 150gr hornady fmj and similar bullets it probably because the throat are set up for long match bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Hmm, your project is interesting timing for me. I think I'm about to get a 6.8 SPC built. I read that is intended for carbine stuff and I've seen load development with the TSX.
I'm already into the suppressor stuff so I'm sure I'll go that route here. I guess I don't have anything to hunt with it.

Would you want to use your 458 on moose or not? Purely your opinion, no need for facts or logic.

"Purely your opinion, no need for facts or logic."


I like to think that's an illogical request of me!!!!

I assume you are talking about my 458 SOCOM?

The answer is yes, of course. The answer is qualified with prior testing for reliable functioning of the firearm.

Delivery of the right bullet, at the right velocity - why would it matter the firearm platform?

There's shot placement too.

I'm not certain what bullet I would use. But I developed a load using the 300 gr Barnes TTSX SOCOM bullet. I'm not sure about the velocity but I estimate 1800 fps at muzzle. It's very accurate. With the SOCOM, the bullet of choice needs to be one where engineered performance is consistent with the velocity the cartridge can get.

I developed a load using the same bullet for my custom 458 Win Mag, also running at estimated 1800 fps. This rifle has a 20 inch twist and 45-70 throat; also very accurate. I shot a very large boar hog with it in the 458 WM, in the neck, and the bullet exited, going through the bone in neck and shoulder. Those large boars have very thick hide in the neck and shoulder. The exit hole was about the size of a golf ball, and I've never seen so much blood at a kill site. Of course all the hog did was drop, twitch and kick. I had to call for help to load it on the receiver hitch platform on the back of my truck. It was so heavy it was a struggle for two strong guys plus me.

But, to answer your question with more reason, facts and logic --- There are better choices, IMO, for moose. I have shot two moose when I lived in Alaska. The first was with a 338 WM, and the second was with my first semi-custom 458 WM, not the one mentioned above, with my handloads. At that time one could buy the 400 gr so-called bonded bear claw bullets. I had them loaded warm. The first moose died after the third shot. The second one took five steps and fell over, into a low place unfortunately, went upside down and died promptly. I also like the 400 gr Swift bullet, at about 2200 - 2300 fps in the Win Mag, but it kicks too hard for me.

But, on second thought, that 400 gr bear claw bullet exited the moose, so logically some of that energy went into the alders. The 300 gr TTSX might expend all its energy in the moose, so the results might equalize. A golf ball size hole through a moose heart -- well you know the results of that. And besides, finding the expanded bullet when butchering would be a trophy in itself.

IMO, the 458 SOCOM would do the job, but also IMO, one would have less margin for error in range and shot placement, which is not really a problem for a good hunter. Same for a possible bear encounter.

Seems some of us have been down the same path here. My AR is currently without an upper. I have had them in 6.5 Grendel, .300 Blackout and .458 SOCOM. I worked up what I considered a capable and accurate load in the SOCOM using the Barnes bullet and hunted elk with it, although I did not get a shot.
A few months ago one of the guys came to our county shooting range with a Ham'r and after looking at it side by side with his buddy's .300 BO, the light bulb came on, as I am interested in handloading a capable hunting cartridge.
My problem is that I like accurate rifles, and I have concluded that I would need to spend quite a bit to get an AR upper that really shoots. My Grendel was an inch gun at 100. I like a half inch. Not needed, but that's just me.
Then I started looking at the 6mm ARC, compared what really good uppers in the caliber are going for -- and saved some money and bought a Savage Axis instead. Basic and homely thought it might be, I expect I will be able to get half-inch or better groups out of this rifle -- and Hornady has released load data for bolt guns that gets 300 fps more out of the ARC than is possible in an AR.

There are really only 2 things you need to know about the .300 BLK. 1) .308 100gr Flat Base Raptor

2) WW 296

It is an amazing little rifle with those components.

100 gr Raptor. Here's what the link says:

This bullet was designed with crimping grooves placed precisely for 300 Whisper, 300 Blackout, 300 WT as well as .308 Winchester. These come with Raptor Tips™ already installed. The Flat Base RaptorS are manufactured out of solid brass bar stock on a CNC Swiss style lathe. Instead of mushrooming, these hollow points are designed so that after 1-2" of penetration, 6 blades break off and radiate outward in a start pattern while the base continues on for even deeper penetration. The required twist rate for this bullet is 1:12" or faster. A minimum impact velocity of 1500fps is required for the hollow point to function as intended.

projection length for .300 Whisper/blackout=.860, projection length for .308 Win=.765, projection for wilson tactical=.675

=================================================

No doubt they will work fine in the 300 ham'r as well.

Note the 1:12" twist rate mention in the site description.

quote:

I like a half inch. Not needed, but that's just me.

IMO, that's high expectations. Good for you.

For me, I would probably get frustrated with that since IMO that would exceed my ability, not the rifle. So I really don't have a way of practically testing that.

If I get one inch groups, I'm very pleased with that. I don't have bench rest rifles, BTW. All hunting rifles. And all of them are capable of one inch groups if all the variables come together correctly. I've had rifles that weren't that accurate and got rid of them.

I also had one rifle that was capable of half inch groups. At that time I was more capable too. It was a 308 built on a SAKO short action. It cost me a bunch too. A guy offered me way more than I had in it and more than I thought it was worth, so I sold it. Now I have an Armalite AR10 in 308, and I'm pretty sure it will do half inch groups, but all I shoot out of it are factory loads - so far. It's a carbine length - very handy thumper, heavy as a brick.

As I said, I like neck shots on hogs. It's very satisfying to see one DRT. I do not want to be following a blood trail on a hog kill.

Also, as I said, IMO the 6.5 Grendel would be my first choice if I could have only one. Mine has the Shien barrel with their matched bolt. Price is about $475 and last I looked Midway has them in stock.

My 300 blk out boltgun is a bit finicky about what it likes. Some light bullets, 110-130 shoot as well as long heavy match bullets.
But, things like 150 Hornady, are poor, 2-3" groups.
Moose are easy to kill. They may take time to realize they are dead, but are not bulletproof. I have guided a half dozen women to moose, killed with one shot each. They all used 7/08 and 150 Rem bullets.
The women listen when I tell them they made a good shot, and stop. The moose may walk a little, lay down and die. Men always want to keep throwing lead after I say stop. The moose "wakes up" and runs. It still takes the same amount of time to die, just farther away, and with a lot of bloodshot meat.

Lane, I realize the Blackout can be very capable with the right bullets. The Barnes 110 black tip has an enviable reputation.
Magine, I like to fiddle with a rifle that I can dream of pushing out beyond 600 yards, possibly to 1,000 -- on paper or steel of course. The 6mm ARC has that capability when using the super-high BC bullets from Hornady, Berger and Nosler.

Yea, TB40, that's true with moose, IMO.

I think that's what happened with my first moose kill and I was using a 338. It took a while for the moose to realize he was dead, and I got excited.

But still, the results of that 400 gr 458 bullet impressed me and the moose.

Also, there was a very notable difference in the amount of bloodshot meat comparing the 338 and the 458 kill.

You also get some odd results. One guy I took out, hit a smallish fork horn bull in the lungs with a .308. It fell in it's tracks, groaned and gurgled and kicked a few times while we walked up, and was dead when we got there. No absolutes with anything.

quote:

I like to fiddle with a rifle that I can dream of pushing out beyond 600 yards, possibly to 1,000 -- on paper or steel of course. The 6mm ARC has that capability when using the super-high BC bullets from Hornady, Berger and Nosler.

Whole different ball game. Again, good for you. Have fun.

TB40, to me a moose hunt is a once or twice thing for a lifetime.

Sure, I would take a 308 moose hunting and consider it perfectly adequate. At the time, though, special hunt - special firearm.

Talking about fantasy toys - that's what my custom 458 WM is for me. Needed - heck no, but I sure like playing with it.

I've loaded it from subsonic using Trail Boss powder up to about 2500 fps with Barnes TSX 350 gr., different powder, and lots in between. I've also loaded some 460 gr cast gascheck bullets at about 1200 fps. All fun.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Lane, I realize the Blackout can be very capable with the right bullets. The Barnes 110 black tip has an enviable reputation.
Magine, I like to fiddle with a rifle that I can dream of pushing out beyond 600 yards, possibly to 1,000 -- on paper or steel of course. The 6mm ARC has that capability when using the super-high BC bullets from Hornady, Berger and Nosler.

We used to shoot the Barnes 110 until Michael McCourry got me shooting those 100g flat base CEB non-cons. That little cheap Ruger American Martin is carrying shoots those bullets at ~2650 w/ 20.5g of WW296 and all into one ragged hole at 100 off the bench. At 150…it shoots to the same POI. At 200 it is just 4” low.

Those milled brass CEB bullets have been incredibly accurate in multiple calibers in multiple rifles for me and they are killing machines.

Martin has now killed a pickup load of whitetails and hogs with that load. While I would never choose it…if I had it in my hands…I would not hesitate to take a good broadside shot on a moose inside 150 yds.

I am taking him and that rifle to Africa this summer.

Lane, as I mentioned my primary AR15 is the 6.5 Grendel, so I kinda measure off that comparing.

The Grendel uses a 123 gr bullet. I started out prepared to handload for it, but then I got some Hornady ammo, and the accuracy was so good that I never handloaded for it. All I use is the Hornady factory ammo in that rifle. At the time I could buy a box for around $20, so I still have several boxes. Now the price is more than doubled.

So, that's why I figured to start with 130 - 140 gr in the 300. I was thinking to retain similar BC and sectional density in a .308 bullet compared to the 123 gr 6.5mm.

Your results are impressive.

Also, that's why I figured to try the Barnes 130 gr TTSX first, and I already have some on the shelf.

My concern is that they won't work out well because of the bullet length. I may have to seat them too deep. And there's the ogive in relation to the throat and where the lands start. And then there's the velocity issue. I read somewhere that Barnes says they will open up as low as 1800 fps. That means there is another practical limit as to range. But probably that won't be a problem for me since 150 yds is about my self-imposed limit anyway. I haven't shot a hog or deer at over about 80 yds in years.

Another issue important to me is that I like a bullet that doesn't shed its weight, at all or very little. At the speed I'll be running the Barnes, it likely won't shed at all.

Another thing, one recommended powder is designed to minimize copper fouling.

https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...018362272?pid=686376 Hodgdon CFE BLK "This excellent rifle propellant utilizes the Hodgdon CFE formula, Copper Fouling Eraser, virtually eliminating copper fouling, clean burning and minimal muzzle flash."

Here's another good powder: https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...022626355?pid=284326 I have some of this powder, and it's available from Midway. I use this powder for my 458 SOCOM.

Refer to Wilson's load data chart.

Comparing the SAAMI drawings for the HAM'R and the BLACKOUT shows that the HAM'R case is straighter and about 1/4" longer both in shoulder location and overall case length. As I see it, that gives it both advantages and disadvantages. The HAM'R will hold more powder but not a whole lot more because the extra case length is in the shoulder and neck and not in the middle of the case. Still, more is better, right? On the other hand, because of the longer case, bullets will need to be seated further into the case mouth (OALs are the same) and that could limit bullet selection. For example, I expect the long ogive of the 125gr bullet shown below would not seat in the HAM'R.



Frankly, I don't see much reason to choose the obscure HAM'R over the ubiquitous 300 Blackout.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Hmm, your project is interesting timing for me. I think I'm about to get a 6.8 SPC built. I read that is intended for carbine stuff and I've seen load development with the TSX.
I'm already into the suppressor stuff so I'm sure I'll go that route here. I guess I don't have anything to hunt with it.

Would you want to use your 458 on moose or not? Purely your opinion, no need for facts or logic.

"Purely your opinion, no need for facts or logic."


I like to think that's an illogical request of me!!!!

I assume you are talking about my 458 SOCOM?

The answer is yes, of course. The answer is qualified with prior testing for reliable functioning of the firearm.

Delivery of the right bullet, at the right velocity - why would it matter the firearm platform?

There's shot placement too.

I'm not certain what bullet I would use. But I developed a load using the 300 gr Barnes TTSX SOCOM bullet. I'm not sure about the velocity but I estimate 1800 fps at muzzle. It's very accurate. With the SOCOM, the bullet of choice needs to be one where engineered performance is consistent with the velocity the cartridge can get.

I developed a load using the same bullet for my custom 458 Win Mag, also running at estimated 1800 fps. This rifle has a 20 inch twist and 45-70 throat; also very accurate. I shot a very large boar hog with it in the 458 WM, in the neck, and the bullet exited, going through the bone in neck and shoulder. Those large boars have very thick hide in the neck and shoulder. The exit hole was about the size of a golf ball, and I've never seen so much blood at a kill site. Of course all the hog did was drop, twitch and kick. I had to call for help to load it on the receiver hitch platform on the back of my truck. It was so heavy it was a struggle for two strong guys plus me.

But, to answer your question with more reason, facts and logic --- There are better choices, IMO, for moose. I have shot two moose when I lived in Alaska. The first was with a 338 WM, and the second was with my first semi-custom 458 WM, not the one mentioned above, with my handloads. At that time one could buy the 400 gr so-called bonded bear claw bullets. I had them loaded warm. The first moose died after the third shot. The second one took five steps and fell over, into a low place unfortunately, went upside down and died promptly. I also like the 400 gr Swift bullet, at about 2200 - 2300 fps in the Win Mag, but it kicks too hard for me.

But, on second thought, that 400 gr bear claw bullet exited the moose, so logically some of that energy went into the alders. The 300 gr TTSX might expend all its energy in the moose, so the results might equalize. A golf ball size hole through a moose heart -- well you know the results of that. And besides, finding the expanded bullet when butchering would be a trophy in itself.

IMO, the 458 SOCOM would do the job, but also IMO, one would have less margin for error in range and shot placement, which is not really a problem for a good hunter. Same for a possible bear encounter.

Probably should have asked for your gut feeling. You gave it quite nicely so

I have shot and seen shot a bunch of moose and my gut opinion is a larger than 30 cal, an -06 sized case and a mono metal like a tsx. I've used my 458 win mag twice and at the shot it was four feet in the air. 450 tsx loaded to max.

Seems like with our two different projects velocity and bullet weight we'll be able to use them for something more than short range medium game.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Frankly, I don't see much reason to choose the obscure HAM'R over the ubiquitous 300 Blackout.

Your info given seems good. We shall see.

So far the HAM"R is still somewhat obscure, but I think it won't stay that way. The marketeers are betting on it, and stocked up.

I would not have "discovered" it had I not started looking for an "ubiquitous 300 Blackout" barrel with a proper twist rate for 125 - 150 gr bullets, supersonic.

Here's something: how to make 300 ham'r cases from 223 brass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0elcfH4f6go

There are several of these videos. This is one of the shorter videos.

A couple more short videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHanfaIGxi4

The last test was a waste of good meat, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bckByxWfIoA

I've searched for something about actual handloading for the 300 ham'r and so far the only meaningful info I've found is here:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar...g-Thread/121-761597/

About one year ago.

Lots of good precautionary info.

Plus here's a sample, which I think was posted by Wilson:

"You can load the Speer 150gr BTSP nearly 75fps faster than the Speer 150gr Gold Dot at the same pressure, the same goes for the Speer 135gr HAM'R BONDED over the Hornady 135gr FTX and the Sierra 125gr SPT PH over the Hornady 125gr FMJ"

Wilson shows load data for Hornady 135gr FTX.

https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...018229522?pid=725652

Personally I would choose the Blackout. But, whichever you choose…shoot some of those 100 gr CEB flat-base raptors. They are killers and I have yet to recover one.

Thanks Lane for your feedback.

I keep discovering new sources of info that I deem reliable. I try my best to screen my posts with links to avoid BS if possible.

Here's one:

https://www.gunsandammo.com/ed...mbat-300-hamr/358869

Wilson Combat 300 HAM'R, March 26, 2019

It seems to do a good job comparing the 300 Ham'r with the 300 BLK. It may be hyped a little, but it does show the two cartridges side-by-side for a visual comparison.

Have you considered the 30 HRT (aka TAC-30)?

Simpler to form than a 300 HAM'R.

quote:

30 HRT is easily formed by full length sizing 6.8 SPC brass in a 30 Herrett die.
Then you simply load using 30 Herret dies.

If you want to shoot subsonic then choosing the 300 HAM'R because it's faster than 300 Blackout is counter intuitive. If you want to push .308" bullets to higher hunting velocities then the 30 HRT will launch a 110gr TTSX 2800fps from a 16" barrel.

30 HRT -- 300 HAM'R -- 300 Blackout

Didn't read any of the above; but the picture looks like a 7.62x39 invented in 1943.
Just more useless crap so the rifle and ammo companies can sell a new product; offers zero new or useful.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Didn't read any of the above; but the picture looks like a 7.62x39 invented in 1943.
Just more useless crap so the rifle and ammo companies can sell a new product; offers zero new or useful.

There's wisdom in those words. The biggest complaint people cite about shooting 7.62x39 in ARs is feeding problems. That's caused by the tapered case requiring a curved magazine. Curved magazines are made for that but the magazine well of the AR15 is straight. So, the upper part of a 7.62x39 magazine is straight, not curved. There are a few companies that make specialty AR15 lowers with curved magazine wells for fully curved 7.62x39 magazines. If you use a standard AR15 lower it feeds fine as long as you stick with a 5 or 10 round magazine.

30 RAR?
https://www.outdoorhub.com/rev...ader-dead-gunwriter/

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Comparing the SAAMI drawings for the HAM'R and the BLACKOUT shows that the HAM'R case is straighter and about 1/4" longer both in shoulder location and overall case length. As I see it, that gives it both advantages and disadvantages. The HAM'R will hold more powder but not a whole lot more because the extra case length is in the shoulder and neck and not in the middle of the case. Still, more is better, right? On the other hand, because of the longer case, bullets will need to be seated further into the case mouth (OALs are the same) and that could limit bullet selection. For example, I expect the long ogive of the 125gr bullet shown below would not seat in the HAM'R.



Frankly, I don't see much reason to choose the obscure HAM'R over the ubiquitous 300 Blackout.

The Hamrs throat are optimized for 125gr then the blk are for 220gr match bullets.

I had a 7.62x39 in a little CZ bolt action carbine, but traded it to a guy for some electrical wiring work. I wounded a nice size for butchering hog in Texas with it because it was about 120 yds. (stepped off later) I forgot to hold a little high to account for the drop. I already had a perfectly good 308 carbine bolt action, and decided right then to get rid of the 7.62x39. IMO there are several reasons to not own one in any platform.

When ther first came out, I also had an AR15 whole factory rifle in the 30 RAR and bought dies and worked with it a lot, handloads etc. I never did find a load, factory or handload, that would get better than about 3" groups. So, I sold the upper and dies and loaded ammo and brass to a guy. I kept the lower partially because there was nothing wrong with it and I had a custom trigger installed.

I still have the lower, plus another generic one.

I don't plan on using subsonic in anything right now.

That 30 HRT looks interesting. I assume it's a wildcat, but it's about as simple as a wildcat can get.

Who has the reamer? Or who makes a barrel?

Answered my own question, in part:

https://pacifictoolandgauge.co...-chamber-reamer.html

I think the 30 HRT is also called the TAC 30.

And there is also a wildcat formed by necking up the 6.5 Grendel to 30.

And there's a wildcat called the 358 MGP, and probably several others. https://www.68forums.com/threa...-bear-whacker.31638/

IMO, getting into wildcats for the AR15 is another ball game.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The BLK can chamber in a .223. It usually results in damage to the gun. (The bullet gets set back in the case, and it gets swaged through the barrel if things don’t let go before that.). I’ve seen guns that folks did this with. .300 BLK and .223 don’t play well together if you are inattentive. That was Bill Wilson’s biggest point, although the modest increase in velocity and bullet weight don’t hurt it.

I saw some pictures of the BLK with the Ham'r and others side by side. Now I can see how maybe a 300 BLK can be jammed into a barrel chambered in 223, and fire.

My apologies DOC.

https://www.68forums.com/threa...30-harret-ar.125719/

All the parts arrived, and the dies, brass, bullets. I went over to a friend's house last evening and he put the upper together. He has the right tools and lots of experience.

The main parts came from Wilson Combat - the assembled receiver, barrel and nut, flash hider, magazines. The bolt carrier group came from Brownells. The stainless/nitrate gas block and tube and sling attachment came from Midway.

I'm happy with it so far. I think he put it together correctly. We visited and talked the whole time - about two hours, and I watched while he assembled.

He helps several of his friends with similar projects. He has a milling machine and does the trick on the 80% lowers, etc.

One thing that bothers me a little is he harps about the BCA stuff - Bear Creek Arsenal. He likes their stuff because he says the price is right and good quality, and his friends are happy with them. However, I looked online and found lots of negative reviews.

So, that's why I ignored his initial recommendation and sourced the parts as I saw fit. BCA doesn't make the Ham'r anyway.

Now, I need to load some ammo and try it out. BTW, I got some Hodgdon CFE BLK powder two days ago. That's the powder Wilson recommends. I also got some 135 gr FTX Hornady bullets. And I have Star brass. I don't have magnum small rifle primers, but I do have Federal SR primers. I have some Barnes 130 gr TTSX but I think they are too long. Won't know for sure till I try.

Awaiting your field trials. I think you were wise to order the parts you did, and not BCA. I've seen the reviews as well, although I know a couple of shooters that are very satisfied with their BCA uppers.