The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 35 whelen.is it really outdated?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Whenever I mention my whelen, someone or other tells me to get something better. If I mention bushveld hunting, I get told to buy a 9.3x62. If we talk slightly over 300 yards suddenly its gotta be a 338 win mag. Even a 338 06 is now suddenly better. When did the whelen get so shit? I grew up reading Keith and dont want to change because I´m suddenly walking around with an old hat caliber. With handloads I see similar trjectories to the 30 06 180gr with a 225gr nosler in the 35. And for closer use I get the same kind of rainbow as my old 303 with a 174gr bullet, using a 250gr in the 35. Am I kidding myself? Are the later offerings really better? | ||
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The whelen outdated... I don't think so. Mine is still going strong and is going bear hunting in 17 days.  ______________________ | |||
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The Whelen has many years of extrordinary service behind it, and many more ahead of it!!! Outdated?, not a chance. It has character up the wazoo, ignore the idiots who will say you are wrong. I pick up my new custom from the stockmaker in 2 weeks. Doug | |||
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The same magazine educated "experts" would also say that about any cartridge more than 15 years old. The real-world problem for those silly B.S. artists is that they believe their own B.S.! That makes them a marketers dream for anything that's "New and improved!" Fact is, there is no ballistic magic in fat or short cartridges nor short bolt throws nor in bore changes measured in a few thousants of an inch. I'd LOVE to own a .35 Whelen but I just don't need it. So, I nurse my wishes and hunt with my even older and more "obselete" Marlin 336 in .35 Rem. and an equally "outdated" .30-06, neither of which has ever let me down. Let 'em talk, you are well ahead of them. | |||
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The Whelen is fully the equal of the 9.3 X 62 but not recognised as a legal DG round in African countries......why?...it's not in their culture! It's as good as ever but is never going to be extremely popular.....popular does not equal excellent! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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There's absolutely no way the 35 Whelen is outdated. It's the caliber I chose for the rifle project at the gunsmithing school I'm currently attending. Consequently, I have to put up with a fair amount of crap from fellow students but it's all in good fun. The .35 caliber rifle cartridges never enjoyed that much popularity to begin with so when you think about it, the Whelen seems to have the most staying power. | |||
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The .35 Whelen outdated???? What a larf! In the 15 or so years Ive been using it, the hundred or so deer, elk, moose, and bears I have taken with it never thought it was outdated.... they never complained at all! | |||
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Outdated because it doesn't go 3000fps, some would say the same for the 06. If it works for you, it doesn't matter. My fav. rifle is my 338-06. My African rifle is a .404jeffery, talk about outdated.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Your 35 Whelen is an old outdated antiquated useless round...you have to face the facts. Becuase I am such a generous soul...I'll give you $200 for it and take it off your hands...  I bet none of those cape buffalo would have died if the the bullet was 17/1000 of an inch smaller and 50 grns lighter and 100 fps slower...yep they all would have just shrugged and walked off. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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For DG at short range the 9.3x62mm is superior in every way (not least of which is that it's generally legal for such purposes, whereas the .35s are not). For medium to longer ranges the .338 Win. Mag. is better. That's why I have two 9.3s and a .338 but no .35 Whelens (or .35 anythings, for that matter). Still, far be it from me to say that there is no place or use for them. As TR said once (forgive the paraphrase), a man's choice of a rifle is as idiosyncratic a thing as his choice of a friend. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Oh Mr. Lex I don't think I can let that one slide...setting the arbitrary African hunting law aside...there is a differene between 8/1000 of an inch and 36 grns? Please do explain the difference...other than culture and the metric system. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I'm sure looking forward to this!!! Cheers... Con | |||
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Maybe it ain't nothin' but the law, Mike. But that's enough for those that don't want to break it. Seriously, .366" is closer than .358" to .458", and way better and heavier solids are made in .366" than .358". Used to be that the .350 Rigby Magnum, using the Rigby steel jacketed solid, the BEST solid of its day, was used by many an inexperienced hunter on elephant. More than a few, however, lived the rest of their short lives after the shot in agonzing pain and regret. Most of the old timers, including Pondoro Taylor himself, thought that that was a bad idea. The same old timers thought that using a 9.3 Mauser with the 286 grain solid was fine. Some, like Pondoro, added that it was fine only if used in more or less open country. Because it got the job done. Could a modern day solid, like a very heavy for caliber Woodleigh, in .35 Whelen get the job done as well as a 9.3. Probably. But that doesn't make it right.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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you just steped in it...dont you remember the 350 rigby and all the nicities said about that. honestly, there is no diff between them and woodleigh makes 310 grainers 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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You, boom stick, my friend, are way too slow on the button to play on this game show. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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at 6 thou diff and the same weights the only real diff is in the heads of the shooter or non shooter. is there a diff between the 416 and 411??? no but i can shoot pistol bullets in one just like the 358 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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this is what i think of the 9,3 vs 358 issue  the only things that makes the 358 better is avaliability in the us and the matching pistol bullets. the only thing the 9,3 has going for it is it is legal for d.g. in some countries. but unless you are going for style you will hunt with a bigger cal than both! if you find yourself in a charge you will shoot whatever is in your hands regardles of legality, honestly it is africa not a nazi death camp. you could hunt with anything. it is just a matter of taste and style. do people need a 577 nitro? no it is overkill for a hunter, back up yes. is a 9,3 underkill...yes! just like my 45-70 but that would not stop me. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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on topic, it is not outdated just not "vogue" its all about style...the 35 whelen is great but most factory stuff is on the mild side for older firearms and the pump actions. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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p.s. if i shot a buff with a 35 whelen i dont think he would pull out a micrometer to see if he should fall over or not or ask to inspect the stamp on the barrel. i would shoot a buff with a 358 norma or 35 newton every day and twice on holidays but the holiday follow up shot most likely would not be needed. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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there...i think i killed it 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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It's difficult not to disagree with you on this. The Remington factory stuff is laughable (IMO) and I'm very happy that Federal decided to bring back their 225-gr. Bear Claw loading. I do, however, think that the new Double Tap and Nosler Custom offerings take the Whelen to a new level in terms of factory performance. The round has certainly benefitted from more advanced powders and bullet design - that's for sure. | |||
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the 35 whelen shooting the aframe and north fork 270 grains @ 2400 is the cats meow. http://35cal.com/35whelen.htm 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The 35 Whelen was out of date when it was invented because the 9.3 x 62 beat Whelen to the punch back in 1906. | |||
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is this a time race? the 450 nitro is older than the lott but hey, the lott is plenty vogue... the issue was is the 35 whelen a capable cart and old fashioned 60/4320 IMR 220 JRN/Speer 2740fps/3668ft.lbs 1954Speer/catalog 62.5 WW760 280 Lyman cast 2514fps/3930ft.lbs heavy game 45/4198 IMR 250 Lyman/cast 2800fps/4353ft.lbs most powerful 57/A2520 250gr WW JSN 2530fps/3554 ft.lbs heavy game 52/H335 275 JRN 2455 fps/3681 thick skin game 61.5/A2520 180 JSN 3059 fps/3740ft.lbs best all around jacket/load 53/H335 250 gr WW/JSN 2525 fps/3540ft.lbs heavy game 57/ReL #7 150gr Rem Jacketed 3248 fps/3514 ft.lbs medium game 57/WW760 325 Hoch 2210 fps/3525ft.lbs for large game 8/Bullseye 280 Lyman 1001 fps/640 ft.lbs pest/sm game load i would say it is great for lions tigers and bears, oh-my! a d.g. stopper, no a hunter yes. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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 Me thinks you hit his on switch. rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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If you were to punched in your face by either Mike Tyson or George Foreman, standing blindfolded......would you be able to tell the difference from each blow?  I would choose the 9.3 mauser over the whelen because I have access to good rifles and ammo, in that caliber, not because the whelen is so much inferior to the mauser... The animals cannot tell the difference...I don´t believe. Buy the rifle/caliber you find and like  DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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The 35 Whelen is good round for hunting lots of game. I hope it never fades away. I read lots of Col Whelen's writings as a kid, and I identify him with the round, which is a very capable round for Bear, Deer, Elk, and Hogs too. I had a 35 Whelen, but sold it...Not a good move on my part. Mine was accurate too. Sure, there are other capable 35 caliber chamberings, but, it's your call, or mine as to which one to own. If the Whelen works for you, go for it. I'd buy another in a heart beat. Long live the 35 Whelen. Don | |||
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Most "new" cartridges are either re-hashes of "obsolete" ones. Shooters/hunters don't look far enough into the details to ascertain that the re-hashes (shorter, fatter, short action, blah,blah,blah) do nothing new and are simply a way for the factories to sell a feew more rifles. That is OK in it's own way. Game animals killed with "obsolete" rounds like the Whelen are just as dead. Careful examination of ballistic tables will show that energy-wise there is very little difference between any of the .30 and up rounds based on the 06 case or the similar 9.3x62. There is some merit to the "bigger hole is better" school of thought but I doubt if the critter can tell the difference | |||
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I love my 35 Whelen, one shot bang! flop! The last one a 350 pound boar. What can be obsolete about that? In politics as in theology! "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, But the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 | |||
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This is really a stupid(but fun) argumanet. If I had both rifles in my safe, I would use the whelen for anything up to Elk and the 9.6X62 for bigger stuff...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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How the .35 Whelen compares to some other classics:  I realize the .35 Whelen can be handloaded to a little higher velocities than the factory ammo specs. I just used the standard factory ammo velocities for all of the cartridges for a common basis for comparison. I think it is interesting how closely the .35 Whelen compares to the 9x57 Mauser and the .350 Rigby Magnum. And, both the 9x57 Mauser and the .350 Rigby Magnum seemed to have good reputations as all around rifles in Africa from what I've read about them. I own a .35 Whelen and a 9.3x62. I like them both. The 9x57 Mauser http://www.african-hunter.com/9x57_mauser.htm  Cheers! -Bob F. | |||
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Back in 1976, when Hornady brought out their first reloading manual, they gave data for a 275 gr. bullet that could be loaded with the powders then available to 2300 FPS. I'm quite sure that with the better propellants we have today that velocity could be increased by 50 to 100 FPS. The chart that BFaucett posted shows the 9.3x62 with a 285 gr. bullet at 2362 FPS for 3530 Ft Lbs. of energy.Now, assuming that we can reach 2350 FPS with a 275 gr. bullet in the Whelen, the muzzle energy is 3373 Ft. Lbs. WOW! a whole 157 Ft. Lbs. difference. Now asuming that 2400 FPS is attainable in some rifles, muzzle energy is 3518 Ft. Lbs., a difference of exactly 12 Ft. Lbs. less than the 9.3x62. WOW! GEE! GOLLY. Obviously with the .35 Whelen lacking in power by all of 12 Ft/ Lbs., obviously it won't eben be adequate for field mice. What bullshit!  Methinks all this putting the Whelen down in favor of the 9.3x62 is nothing but one upmanship snobbery.   I have three rifles chambered to the Whelen and am planning two more. I don't care for the 1 in 16" twist in my Ruger M77 and Remington 700. A custom mauser I got at an estate sale has a 1 in 14" twist, but I would prefer a 1 in 12" twist as specified by Howe and Whelen. So, another Mauser is planned with the proper twist rate as is a Ruger #1 as I like hunting with single shot rifles. I don't think the Whelen is outdated. I think it is underapreciated by those who should know better. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Paul B. | |||
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Paul B You just illustrated the problems with the 35 Whelen. Twist and bullets. Other than that identical to 9.3 but someohow more American. | |||
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My 35 Whelen still kills evrything that it used to. The critters don't know thats its out of date or fashion. | |||
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imho the 35 is the largest you want to go on an 06 case unless you "improve" the case... the improved case is good for up to 416 dia but i would limit to 411. an improved 35 whelen will get you even more. the 35 hawk is not far off factory 358 norma velocities. damn good and good enough. but for 35 whelen "unimproved" it will outlive us and beyond. it is an american classic. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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At what pressures?...near as I can tell there is more  than truth there/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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you mean they make a rifle between .338 and .375? why?  VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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Just because..... -Bob F.  | |||
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I had a 35 Whelen, with 250gr NP it killed everything I ever shot with it DRT. Unfortunately the rifle, a factory Ruger M77, had a 16 twist and never really shot the 250gr NP very well. It was great with the 225gr but then I felt I might as well have a 30-06. So, I had a 9.2x62 made up on the same type of action. So far, I can't tell any real difference and I doubt I will. Both cartridges seem to be at their best by reloading in my experience. Given a custom barrel with appropriate rate of twist either one should do for whatever. Since I'm still allowed more than one rifle here in the US I'm not concerned so much about using this rifle for coyotes or gophers. With the 9.3x62 286gr of various makes will kill anything here, same goes for Africa. One bullet weight and trajectory makes it simple for me, I get confused easily and tend to use only one bullet weight with any one rifle. There are very real legal considerations for some African localities and they may be a serious consideration if you are going to use the rifle there. That's up to you. | |||
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