Did Ruger ever bring out a .338 based on their .375 Ruger case? I am not referring to the.338 RCM.

No sir. Not to date. I read an interesting article back when the 375 and the 416 came out and the writer had some pretty convincing thoughts on why they didn’t. It boiled down to performance versus pressure just didn’t work out in the 338 bore. Don’t remember where or who wrote it.

Thank you for the information Fury.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...Ruger_Compact_Magnum

A short version

The CEO of Ruger at the time was a bean counter. He was not a hunter or rifle nut. He did some hunting on the sponsored shows later. However, he was a a exec hunting not a hunting exec.

The super short mags were the new hotness. Ruger was late to the super short mags, so instead of doing the forward thing that a rifle guy would have down which was give us a full line of full length Ruger cartridges. Ruger gave us trendy, underpowered super short magnums that died shortly after.

This CEO’s thought process also dropped the Sturm from Sturm and Ruger in marketing.

It would have seemed logical to me to have a 300 or 338 before the 416.

I don't go much with Ruger so I might have this wrong but I think I saw some time ago the Ruger African and was in 375 Ruger but also 338 Win and 300 Win. How much better if the 338 and 300 were 375 Ruger based.

I have had a lot to with Mark V Weatherby over umpteen years and with a lot of blokes who have bought them. There is no doubt that a lot of Mark V sales have occurred because of the Wby family of calibres. As a recent example, in Australia plenty of blokes who have bought the 6.5/300 already owned a Mark V in guess what calibre, you guessed it, the 300 Wby.

Also, the 375 Ruger would ne a very good case capacity for the 30 and 338 calibres. I suppose somewhere between the 338 Win and 300 Wby case capacity but much closer to the 300 Wby.

This thread has terminology that has confused me.Maybe someone can help.

I own and shoot a Ruger M77 (with tang safety) in caliber .338 Winchester Magnum. It is a great rifle and has served me well for years.

What is wrong with this Ruger in this caliber?

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
This thread has terminology that has confused me.Maybe someone can help.

I own and shoot a Ruger M77 (with tang safety) in caliber .338 Winchester Magnum. It is a great rifle and has served me well for years.

What is wrong with this Ruger in this caliber?

Well to me it is about Ruger not having a 338 bore size based on the 375 Ruger case.

A .338 Ruger magnum based on the .375 Ruger would only "thin" a limited .338 magnum market to begin with, and really not be any advantage for shooters other than the probability of a few sales to those who want "something different". I predict it wouldn't be a success for the Ruger company any more than a short .338 Win Mag would have been for Winchester -- that they also realised in bringing out the short .325 Win Mag as something different. And that number has been anything but a great success for Winchester in sales.

From a strictly practical view, it's very hard to improve on the original .338 Win based on the .458 Win. The other .338 magnum that has merit, if one wants more than the original .338 Win, is the .340 Wby. The .338 Lapua and .338 RUM don't offer enough more to compensate for the extra noise and recoil in my view and experience with both the Win and Wby.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Correct, we, I, are bemoaning the fact Ruger never did a complete cartridge line up specifically the 338 caliber on the full size 375 cartridge.

This left the field to the Nolser rounds which are based on a shortened and modified Jeffery case like the Dakota rounds (except 450 Dakota). The Dakota cartridges are based on the older Imperial cartridges.

The 338 Ruger would have given 340 WBY ballistics wo the belt, length, and shoulder of the WBY.

The Ruger case is not as fat as the RUM, Dakota, Nosler, Jeffery concept. The Ruger case is also not rebated. Like the 375 Ruger, Winchester Ammunition and FN Winchester would have never loaded or built rifles for it, but so what.

Handloaders have great bullets and powders. Others would have folks like Superior load it w any bullet out there. Most would just shoot Hornady.


However, I am one of the minds that think the full sized 375 Ruger case is the best in terms of design out there. That little case gave us something that use to take near 3 inches or huge girth to get.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Correct, we, I, are bemoaning the fact Ruger never did a complete cartridge line up specifically the 338 caliber on the full size 375 cartridge.

This left the field to the Nolser rounds which are based on a shortened and modified Jeffery case like the Dakota rounds (except 450 Dakota). The Dakota cartridges are based on the older Imperial cartridges.

The 338 Ruger would have given 340 WBY ballistics wo the belt, length, and shoulder of the WBY.

The Ruger case is not as fat as the RUM, Dakota, Nosler, Jeffery concept. The Ruger case is also not rebated. Like the 375 Ruger, Winchester Ammunition and FN Winchester would have never loaded or built rifles for it, but so what.

Handloaders have great bullets and powders. Others would have folks like Superior load it w any bullet out there. Most would just shoot Hornady.


However, I am one of the minds that think the full sized 375 Ruger case is the best in terms of design out there. That little case gave us something that use to take near 3 inches or huge girth to get.

Good points. Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Correct, we, I, are bemoaning the fact Ruger never did a complete cartridge line up specifically the 338 caliber on the full size 375 cartridge.

This left the field to the Nolser rounds which are based on a shortened and modified Jeffery case like the Dakota rounds (except 450 Dakota). The Dakota cartridges are based on the older Imperial cartridges.

The 338 Ruger would have given 340 WBY ballistics wo the belt, length, and shoulder of the WBY.

The Ruger case is not as fat as the RUM, Dakota, Nosler, Jeffery concept. The Ruger case is also not rebated. Like the 375 Ruger, Winchester Ammunition and FN Winchester would have never loaded or built rifles for it, but so what.

Handloaders have great bullets and powders. Others would have folks like Superior load it w any bullet out there. Most would just shoot Hornady.


However, I am one of the minds that think the full sized 375 Ruger case is the best in terms of design out there. That little case gave us something that use to take near 3 inches or huge girth to get.

Close but not quite there.

As to belted cases, us older shooters never had and currently don't have problems with belted cases.

In countries like Australia the plus of the 340 Wby (and of course the 338 Winchester) is brass. If stuck then easy to neck up 300 Wby or as many do, neck down 375 H&H cases.

One plus the 338 Winchester has is recoil, far less than a 340 and would also be quite a bit less than a 338/375 Ruger. For many shooters the 338 is right at the limit.

But overall I agree with your post.

I designed s 338-375 ruger -- and a 338 acc-rel -- i was advised to not bother with friends in the industry.

I would be a buyer for a gray stainless hawkeye in a decent wood or lam stock. Factory loads with match ACTUAL factory loads of the 340, as the case capacity is basically identical .. in a standard action...

and, of course, the great thing about big cases is that you can load them down if you like

oh, and let's not bring up "thin audience" .. with the 6,5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x64, 6.5x64r, 260 rem, AND 6.5 credmore - gun guys will buy just about anything

338-378, 340, 338 win, 338-06, 338 federal .. and 8 mauser for honorable mention ..

I really do not hate belts either:

7mm STW
375 HH
416 Rem
458 Lott

The design works, but the 375 Ruger case gives you what use to take a near 3 inch belted case without the girth of the Jeffery modified cases.


I wish I would have thought of it.

WOW! And thank you gents for clarifying the thread for me.

I will stick with the M77 in.338 Win mag as it has decisively killed all American and African game shot with it, including elk and eland. For smaller stuff I use a .308 and for bigger a .411 or .458.
Very old fashioned, but sticking with what has worked for me.

Thanks again.

Belts,

Just a conversation topic. I see little more in a hunting rifle.
I have a 338Win Mag and a 340 Wea.
I have pet loads in each.
210 TTSX in the 338 2980 FPS
250 NP's in the 340. 2980 FPS
Both will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yds.
I suppose a "magical velocity" ??? a lot of rounds down the range to tailor those hand loads

Both go elk hunting with me.
The 340 is a beater but the 338 is a super grade mod 70 glassed in the factory walnut stock, free floated and a trigger job. Rain or shine I take the Weatherby, but I get some personal satisfaction harvesting game with a traditional wood stocked rifle.
A ton of confidence in those guns.
No fancy scopes either: Simply Leupolds with a Leopold dot reticle.

338 WM was my Father’s and my FIL favorite cartridge.

Yeah, I really love the 338WM too, and belts don't bother me, but I'd choose a round without the belt vs. one with a belt, if they were equal ballistically. I own (12) 338WMs: (2) Dakotas, (3) Ruger Express', and (7) Ruger Hawkeyes (some blue/wood Africans, some SS/lam. Africans, and some SS/syn.).

I've taken about half of my Elk with this caliber and I've been to Africa nine times, and the majority of the animals have fallen to my 338WM. It's truly a superb round.

Would I buy a Ruger 338/375 if Ruger would make it? Absolutely!

What we really want is a 358/375 Ruger with a thick, bonded 275 grain bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
What we really want is a 358/375 Ruger with a thick, bonded 275 grain bullet.

BINGO!!

I think I'd hunt with that round for the rest of my life...

I might buy one of those. Agree on the 270-275 gr bonded bullet.
What would you push it? 2800 FPS?
You could build one on a CZ 550 and have enough room to seat the bullets way out in that long magazine and save more room for powder.

I think with some recent load development in the 375 H&H where you can push a 270 TTSX / TSX at 2850 FPS (Either Ramshot Hunter or Big Game) it might be hard to justify.
Easy to find cheap brass down this path.

EZ

quote:

Originally posted by surefire7:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
What we really want is a 358/375 Ruger with a thick, bonded 275 grain bullet.

BINGO!!

I think I'd hunt with that round for the rest of my life...

I would spec it at 2800 FPS. I am not a ballistictian, but looking at the STA case compared to the Ruger case 2800 would not be the top potential velo.

275 grain bullet has the same SD as 300 grain 375 and better BCs shape for shape than 270 grain 375.

Of course when my STA gets here The 358/375 would be personally redundant, but I got 4 375s. Therefore, redundancy is not a problem for me.

There is no real justification for a big 358 over the 375. There were a lot of 358 cartridges that got killed in the crib when Western-Winchester made the 375 HH.

I built several .338/Rugers early on, they were wildcats at the time, built them for a local doctor...The improvement over a 338 Win.was not very impressive over my chronographs. I suspect that had something to do with it, same for the Rum in my opinion at least in the hunting field inasmuch as the .338 Win will out penetrate a 375 H&H on elephant skulls, but lacks the cross section that's important on DG IMO..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by eezridr:
I might buy one of those. Agree on the 270-275 gr bonded bullet.
What would you push it? 2800 FPS?
You could build one on a CZ 550 and have enough room to seat the bullets way out in that long magazine and save more room for powder.

I think with some recent load development in the 375 H&H where you can push a 270 TTSX / TSX at 2850 FPS (Either Ramshot Hunter or Big Game) it might be hard to justify.
Easy to find cheap brass down this path.

EZ
[QUOTE]

I would shoot 280 gr. SAF @ about 2,600-2,700 fps.

But I would buy (hopefully) a new Ruger in this caliber, like a blue/wood or SS/Lam. in an African model, which currently weigh around 7.5 lbs. Add a scope & rings to bring it up to around 8.5 lbs. Nice short, light, handy, powerful rifle, easy to carry all day.

Yes, one has to consider that a 375 H&H shooting 270 gr. bullets would do the same thing, but now you have a magnum length rifle that will probably weigh about 1-1.5 lbs. more, and be a bit longer to boot.

A Ruger African (no muzzle brake) in this 358/375 Ruger would be my dream medium bore rifle. I would probably have to retire my beloved 338WMs...

All very nice but I think the reason that Ruger never made the plunge was they took a look at the .338 RUM and saw the lack of enthusiasm in yet another .338 magnum that likely wouldn't go anywhere. Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:

Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

Totally.

A big plus it has is riles like the M70 are 7mm Rem/300 Win in size and price. The 375 is the big jump in rifle size and price. Even the 338/378 is available in the cheaper Synthetic Mark Vs but a 378 is the Deluxe Mark V as minimum entry point.

I suppose when it comes to a 338/375 Ruger they would need to sell a heap more rifles (and ammo/brass) than Wby needs to make the 340 and 338/378 a going concern because of the very high Wby pricing for rifles and ammo and brass.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

and let's face it, the 375HH owned the .375 class, as well ..

wanna bet ruger sold more 375 rugers than CZ in the same time frame? Frankly, I've seen more boxes of 375 ruger in stores than HH ...

As an avid fan of the 375 H&H for many many years, I found a Ruger 77 (discontinued modelonly manufactured in 1908) at a great price so bought it, shot it tested it not expecting anything I didn't already know like the H&H couldn't be replaced..wrong!

The 77RS, mod. 77RS 07 07129 is a 375 Ruger, at 7.5 lbs. naked and 8.5 lbs scoped, 23 inch barrel, wood and blue; lean and mean; m-70 type safety (mk 2 ?) is the best .375 Ive ever owned. and the full equal of the Holland and Holland IMO, and replaced my H&H and .338 Win, at least for now..

That said and btw I can't imagine an improvement over the standard .338 Win. that's kind to all bullets and performs as well as anything Ive shot..It will out penetrate any of the 375 btw

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

and let's face it, the 375HH owned the .375 class, as well ..

wanna bet ruger sold more 375 rugers than CZ in the same time frame? Frankly, I've seen more boxes of 375 ruger in stores than HH ...

Jeffe,

Big difference with a 338/375 Ruger is that with the 338 Wichester standard price and weight rifles abound everywhere including the M70. It was a different story with the 375 H&H Vs 375 Ruger.

I think jus abou any rifle that is chambered for the 7mm Rem or 300 Win will be chambered in 338 Winchester and at 300 Winchester weight.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

and let's face it, the 375HH owned the .375 class, as well ..

wanna bet ruger sold more 375 rugers than CZ in the same time frame? Frankly, I've seen more boxes of 375 ruger in stores than HH ...

I'm not sure how a .375 relates to a .338 but where I live the H&H has far more choices than the Ruger. Besides what are the factory ammo choices for a Ruger? One or two?

The point is no matter how much you personally like your Ruger based cartridge I'm sure they looked at the RUM series and said not at this time. It's just pure marketing.

The new big deal were the Super Short Magnums. Ruger Compact Magnum went trend following with the 338 Ruger. It was slower than the 338 WM and the whole super short magnum trend went bust.

How many Single Shot Falling blocks were being sold when Ruger introduced the Ruger No.1? You got to shot the dice.

The Ruger cases fixes the problems with the RUM came with.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

The Ruger cases fixes the problems with the RUM came with.

I have never seen problems with the RUMS. The rebate has not been a problem from my experience. It is less than the 378 Wby case and heaps of people go after dangerous game with the 500 A2 and no one mentions the rebate on the 378 case.

Where the RUM case is really great is far easier with actions than the Lapua/378 case and gives the same case capacity as the 338 Lapua.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Let's face it the .338 Winchester pretty much owns that bore size in the market.

and let's face it, the 375HH owned the .375 class, as well ..

wanna bet ruger sold more 375 rugers than CZ in the same time frame? Frankly, I've seen more boxes of 375 ruger in stores than HH ...

I'm not sure how a .375 relates to a .338 but where I live the H&H has far more choices than the Ruger. Besides what are the factory ammo choices for a Ruger? One or two?

The point is no matter how much you personally like your Ruger based cartridge I'm sure they looked at the RUM series and said not at this time. It's just pure marketing.

I imagine that the person you answered to (about the .338 Winchester) was referring to the .338WM. I could be wrong, of course.

Anyway .338 bullet weights start at 165 grains, and end at 300. The 225-grain TTSX is quite popular with .338 hunters in Alaska.

For the NA continent, I can't think of a better cartridge if you include Brown bear than the .338 Win. unless you have an old mod 70, 30/06 laying around...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For the NA continent, I can't think of a better cartridge if you include Brown bear than the .338 Win. unless you have an old mod 70, 30/06 laying around...

. . . or any 35 Whelen!

quote:

Originally posted by whelenite:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For the NA continent, I can't think of a better cartridge if you include Brown bear than the .338 Win. unless you have an old mod 70, 30/06 laying around...

. . . or any 35 Whelen!

quote:

Originally posted by whelenite:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For the NA continent, I can't think of a better cartridge if you include Brown bear than the .338 Win. unless you have an old mod 70, 30/06 laying around...

. . . or any 35 Whelen!

Or a .375, or .45/70, or .558 Lott, and so on. However, the .35 Whelen is not as popular or common in Alaska as the .338WM, .30-06, and .300WM are.

Yes, we all have a favorite cartridge (s) based on their names (Wheelen, Hollan & Hollan, and so on), but in reality what's more important out in real life is the bullet it was designed on, not the name of the design.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
For the NA continent, I can't think of a better cartridge if you include Brown bear than the .338 Win. unless you have an old mod 70, 30/06 laying around...

The .30-06 with heavier bullets has been used for may years for bear hunting in Alaska. It works just fine, and so a super .30-06: a .300 WM or similar, since these launch the same bullet a little farther. But the .313 SD of a 250-grain .33-caliber bullet gives a ballistics edge over a lot of other bullets. In Alaska my favorite cartridge is the "Alaskan," so called in 1958.

We now have a run away train! and too many "ors"

BTW the RUM was still born, and a catastrophic failure! thats my story and Im sticking to it..