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Gentleman, My NJ Cousin wants to build a LR elk rifle for elk out to 500 yds. We hunt our elk in very open country with the hunting more like antelope than elk. The average shots here are in the LONG 300 yd range. With many opportunities in the 400-500 yd area. He is a good shooter, has taken a few out to 350 yds+ and is cool under fire. No buck fever issues here. I'm thinking of one of the Remington Sendero's, 26" fluted bbl , have the bedding checked,trigger worked on or replaced, with a Harris bipod. MY dilemma; .300 win mag or .300 Ultra Mag?? To further muddy up the water......bullets are currently so good I've taken several elk with my .280 Rem with zero problems. So that opens up the thought of the 7mm Ultra Mag as well. Any other thoughts on the base rifle are welcome. I have also thought of Weatherby. Scopes will come later. Thanks in advance, FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | ||
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Sounds an awful lot like our conditions here. Our party shoots mostly .300 Winchester Magnums with either 180 or 200 grain bullets. We do have one .300 RUM in the group and two 7mm Remington Magnums as well. I think the .300 Win Mag is a great all around choice...but then that is what I shoot.  | |||
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I don't want to influence the opinions but the .300 WM is MY personal choice as well. We hunt a couple of very large irrigated hayfields on a private ranch. The herds can run to 500 head at times. It's impossible to fool 500 noses and eyes for very long. They hang in the absolute best spots to foil stalks. So LR shots are the norm. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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I like the Ultra Mags for Long Range stuff Personally if you are going to reload. If you could find one I would get a Sendero in .338 Ultra Mag. I wish there were a few more out there. It could be fun. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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I would stay away from the 7mm's on Elk at 500 UNLESS you are going to shoot heavy bullets like the 175 Grain Partitions or something the has good weight retention. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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I've killed several bulls out to the short side of 400 yds and two wounded bulls out past 500 with a .280 Rem and 150 NP's. Best bull I ever shot was at 395 yds and the .280 Rem. NEVER lost anything with the .280 then again I don't shoot unless it's a sure thing, good angle,etc. My Cousin is of the same opinion on taking a shot so all we need to do is pop the lungs and we are in business. NO "raking" shots as Elmer Keith used to say. I personally think a good elk minimum is the thirty calibers but the added velocity of the 7 Ultra does add quite a bit of poop to the ctg at ranges up to 400-500 yds. And bullets right now are so good that core seperations and accuracy problems are a thing of the past. I think we are leaning towards either of the .300 mags but threw the 7 out there to see what You all thought. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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Hey Frank, no fly's on the 300winmag. The RUM may give you another 50yds? I would stay away from the 7mmRUM, I just think it's way over bore, maybe a 7mm STW w/ 160gr or 175gr bullets @ 3200fps. The .30mags, as you know, give you greater energy & bigger holes. What's your cousin's recoil tolerance? LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fred, He is fine with either of the 300 mags. Like I said I'm leaning towards the .300 WM as it has ALWAYS worked well for me. Did I show You the elk area I described. Across the River out in the big irrigated fields?? When Ya coming out? The gophers are starting to come up!! The goldens and bald eagles are REALLY picking them off. Easy targets on the snow drifts. Headed to Reno for the Hilton Show on thursday. BTW.....Do You like Browning High Powers?? Just picked up a NIB FN model, made in Belgium/assembled in Portugal, a .40 S%W for $399. Hell of a "Classic" all steel gun for four hundred bucks. Supplies limited. Let me know. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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The 7RM w/ 160 ABs or 150 XXX would be good at that range. Contrary to what many believe, the Ultra Mags are not all they are cracked up to be. I'm not saying they are not faster by a little but, when you compare the down range ballistics they just aren't much better than just a plain ole' 7 Rem Mag. For instance when loading the 7 Rem Mag w/ 160 ABs at 3100 fps vs loading the 300 RUM w/ 180 ABs at 3200 fps out at 500 yards, there's not a hill of beans of difference. The 7RM drops less than 2" more and hits only 43.8 fps slower. That's not enough difference to get the daylights pounded out of you when you squeeze the trigger and burn 30 more grains of powder. A Sendero in 7RM would be nice. Or maybe even the STW.... Reloader | |||
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Frank-good to hear from you amigo, by the way that property you're talking about is one beaut isn't it! The country I hunt is quite open as well, and shooting to 5 is a day to day event. The rounds I've used the most for this are the 270 with the 130 TX and the 130 Sie BT. I've also used the 7 Mashburn Super a bunch, and for bullets I've used the 140 TX, 150 TX, 150 MK, 150 NBT, 160 TX the 160 Noz and the 175 Noz. Honestly all of them just up and tipped the elk over with no issues. A fella b4 this wrote to use the heavy weights in the big 7's , the 175 Noz I believe is what he said. His reason was retention, I would bet each and every day that a 140 TX or the 150 TX is gonna be every bit as effective as the 175 Noz and the total weight retention is gonna be higher. I've honeslty not used the big 30's much, a few elk and that is it so I won't comment as I don't feel qualified to do so. Now for my main pick, I love the 340 as you well know. And that is where I would go that or the 338 RUM. But I am just a 33 fanantic. Frank I gotta tell you I just don't see that there is any big diff in any of these rounds mentioned. I would find a rifle that fits him/her and get them to put a minimum of 500 rounds a year thru it from field postitions. I would prefer that they have more like 1K rounds a year but that is just me. I would also get them to take a close look at the TX line for whatever they choose. You have a lot of good choices there Frank and as much as most all out there when it comes to taking bulls so I would go with your gut. Good luck Mark D | |||
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Frank, I remember the video you sent me when the herd was coming out of the hills, amazing sight. I'm putting in for elk again, so I probably won't be out until the fall if I get drawn. I love my BHP in 9mm, but don't really need another .40s&w, I know, since when does "need" have anything top do with it?  If your cousin is comfy w/ a .30mag, I think he's fine w/ a .300winmag. Mark, I've just not been a fan of the Barnes 'X', to picky in my rifles, but maybe I should try the new TSX. The reason I like heavier bullets in my 7mm Dakota is high SD/wt. retention @ any impact vel. & the 160grNP just shoots so well in my .280 & 7mmDakota.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Fred- I am no fan of the original X or the XLC, honeslty I will not run them down my tubes. Now the TX is a whole nother cat, I have run it all the cals I use since they came out and just can't say enough good. Try the 210 TX in your 338's. In my 338/06,338 WSM and my 340 it shoots incredibly well. Make it your best day! Mark D | |||
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Don't shoot 160's at that range or even think about the 150 grainers. To light a bullet and wind will play a huge factor. Stick with the 175's for the 7mm. Accubonds lose 1/3 of the weight as a rule of thumb. At least the the bullets I recovered from plains game in Africa, Deer and Elk in Idaho and Pigs in TX did.
You are comparing they 7mm Rem Mag to the 300 RUM with 20 grains of bullet difference. That is a big ass hill of beans difference in my opinion. 20 grains of bullet is a lot of weight especially when you are trying to knock an elk down at 500 yards. The extra 50 fps equals greater foot pounds of energy. If he is afraid of a gun that kicks put a brake on it. If I was shooting LR Elk, I would have a brake on it anyway to see POI.
A pound of powder has 7000 grains in it. Now since he is shooting 30 more grains of powder per shot that means every 233 rounds he goes through an extra pound of powder. Say a 1 pound can of powder costs $16.50 US Funds. Take the 16.50 divide it by 233 which dives you about .07 cents. So every extra shot is costing his 7 cents more or $1.40 per 20 shots. He is spending what on his tags, gas, food and everything else during hunting season. I think he can afford it. If not I will send him a pound of powder for elk season so he won't wound a elk at 500 yards with a 150 grainer out of a 7mm at 500 yards. I would almost go to a 200 grain bullet out of the 300 Rum for shooting LR. Heavy bullets are the best for long range shooting. Compare like calibers and like bullet weights. Shoot heavy bullets for long range. Just my .02. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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RUM fan eh? I knew someone would stomp on the facts. I'll say it again, if less than 2" of trajectory is a major concern as well as 48 fps, you have far more problems to worry about. There's not a hill of beans of difference, a shot from either through the vitals and he's history. The SD and BC is higher on the 160 AB vs the 180 AB so yes, sierrabravo, it is a pretty valid comparison. Now since you've made the comment abou the 160 AB not being big enough  let's compare the 7STW or 7RUM w/ the 160AB to the 300RUM w/ the 180 AB and we'll quickly see that the big 7s will beat it in trajectory and speed and the energy is almost the same.I would even venture to guess that the long 160 AB w/ better SD would out penetrate the 180 at that range if we were to test them. I'm simply stating that the ballistic Facts show us that there is absolutely very minor difference between the two at that range. Not enough to cause anyone to have a miss or to lose an animal. You can argue it all you want, the ballistics calculator will prove they are almost the same w/ those two bullets. Reloader | |||
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The 300 Ultras only hunting advantage over the Winchester is with 200gr bullets. In the field I doubt neither the shooter nor elk could see the difference. The 300 win has no flies at short (500 yards) range. The 338 ultra would bring some extra insurance to the 500 yard (game) shot. The 338 ultra just plain hits like the hammer of THOR.....The Elk wil be THOR and so will you! Sorry, can't help myself, but the 338 Ultra really is amoung the "kings" when it comes to long range game. The 7's in my opinion are among the "Queens". Get THOR! | |||
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I gotta say that in the age of the 30-06 and 270winchester the 7mm Mag was developed to kill elk at between 300 and 400yards, with 140gr bullets. Have Elk gotten more resistant to bullets since 1962? the Ultramag's, Oh please! they are like all those fishing lures that are designed to catch fishermen instead of fish. I suppose they offer SOME advantage if you can control them, But most people have issues shooting a 300Win well... The 7mm MAg will probably do, but don't get rediculous on bullet weight if 150's make you feel better go for it, but the 160's and 175's are "Moose" bullets. If you feel you MUST shoot a 175-180gr bullet get the 300WM, but personally I'd stick to 165's or 180's in it and likely only use 180's on Moose. 165 30cal bullets are NOT designed for killing "deer".... Saying the 7mm Mag isn't enough for 350yd elk is like saying that the 30-30 isn't enough for 150yd Whitetails, and you can scream all you want but that dog just ain't gonna hunt!!! AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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FN You should have known this was going to turn into a "well that's what I have so it is the best" topic. Shot placement at 500 is more important than the three calibers that you have mentioned. I have a .300 ultra and love it, but I'm not saying it's the best. I can load 180 accubonds safely to 3325. Run that in your ballistic calculator against a 7 Rem mag! Just throwing some logs on the fire!  "In case of a thunderstorm stand in the middle of the fairway and hold up a 1 iron, not even God can hit a 1 iron"............Lee Trevino. | |||
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NeverFlinch, I knew it would morph into a small amount of BS but it's all basically good info. A lot of knowledge and expertise out here. I respect the opinions of the posters or I wouldn't have posed the question. Wait until I pose the SCOPE question! Another can of worms. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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Heck Frank, if you're going to go to something as heavy as the Sendero you may as well get all the juice in which case I'd get the 300 Ultra. Recoil in the Sendero won't be an issue in my mind. For a lighter "all around" elk killer I'd do the 300 WSM or 300 WM. Personally, If I were going to do the Sendero I'd second Mark and do a 338 Ultra (were it available).  | |||
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neverflinch, if you run the numbers 7STW/160@3250 vs 300rum/180@3250 (both attainable in most rifles), the 7stw gives up 200ft# of energy & nothing in wind or drop for quite a bit more recoil. Either will do the job on elk out to 500yds. Frank, let's hear the scope question? I vote Leup. 4.5x14 30mm if I was making it a LR rig. Mil-dot or B&C ret. bipod of course. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Well of the calibers you have thrown out there I would not feel under guned with any of them. I shoot a 300 ultra and I like it,do I think it's the best, NO. This all comes down to personnel issues. Your likes, how good a rifleman you are,terrain,etc.In short buy or build what you want your shooting it so you have to like it or you'll never really shoot it well. My personnel elk rifle favorite is my 358 STA built on a 700 remington action, shilen barrel with a brake an a McMillian stock shooting 225's at 3004 FPS.This rifle works very well and makes a great elk round.Just my 2 cents. Hoeram  NRA Benefactor Member USAF Ret. | |||
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500 yards is not an awesome long shot, any of the cartridges mentioned above will work provided you have reasonable accuracy, BC and proper construction for the bullet at the appropriate impact velocity. Oh yeah, it helps if the shooter is up to it in every regard.  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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Fred, Great minds DO think alike!! Same scope I had in mind; the 4.5-14 30mm with the B&C reticle. I have a couple of spare 3.5-10X 1" std's. So I can at least get it shooting until we figure out a scope. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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I said against a 7 Rem Mag. Per federal cartride web site. Both used Barnes triple shock. 160gr. for 7 rem mag, 180 gr for .300 ultra. ALL FIGURES ARE AT 500 YARDS. 7 Rem mag with 2780 muzzle velocity: Velocity: 1660 fps Energy: 979 ft./lbs. Wind Drift 10 mph: 28.3 inches Drop zeroed at 200: 52.6 inches .300 ultra mag with 3150 muzzle velocity: Velocity: 2322 fps Energy: 2154 ft./lbs. Wind drift 10 mph: 13.8 inches drop zeroed at 200: 32.6 inches Over 600 ft. per second velocity, 1100 ft./lbs, 15 inches of wind drift, and 20 inches of drop difference. Not even in the same ball park. "In case of a thunderstorm stand in the middle of the fairway and hold up a 1 iron, not even God can hit a 1 iron"............Lee Trevino. | |||
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Reloader, I actually don't own a RUM, but it is my belief that Big Bullets and Big Calibers help a bit if you miss the vitals. 500 yards is a long ways off. What happens if you don't hit the vitals? 20 or 40 more grains ripping around in there will probably help you. The lighter the bullet the greater the wind drift. Who cares about sectional density, penetration and energy if you can't hit them because the wind blew your bullet off course!!!! Allan, We are talking about 500 yards not 350. Read the post again. ________________________________________________ I would like to pose a question to you all. How many elk have you killed??? Please list ranges, calibers and bullet weights/brand. I will take many post with more than a grain of salt if you have experience elk hunting. I get aggravated though at the "Computer Experienced Elk Hunters" I have only killed 3 in my 8 years of elk hunting. So I probably don't have as much experience as some of you. 1. 275 yards, 30-06, 150 grain Ballistic Tip. One shot through the chest. It was a good shot and the elk fell over. The bullet hit no ribs and completly demolished the chest. Even though it was one shot, I won't try that one again with Ballistic Tips. 2. 200 yards, .300 Win Mag, 180 Grain Nosler Partition, One shot behind the shoulder. 3. 30 yards, .300 Win Mag, 180 Grain Nosler Partion. Two shots through the chest. Both bullets exited. After the first shot elk stood there so I shot it again. Then it fell over. I have passed on longer shots since I did not shoot enough 6 or 7 years ago at 400 to 500 yards. Now I feel comfortable taking those shots. To FN, I apologize for getting everybody riled up. To the others who I have argued with, I will apologize to you if you show experience shooting elk at close or long range. I really just get aggravated at "Computer Experience" compared to real hunting experience. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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neverflinch, Thanks for posting the numbers. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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I gotta go with Allan on this one, although I'm not sure about taking too many shots at Elk with a 270 at 500 yards. I'm sure that it is completly doable with today's selection of bullets but you would have to be darn comfortable shooting at that range and the range better be confirmed not guessed at. The TSX bullets IMO are the best for this type of situation, my B-I-L shot a Moose in Northern Id last year with a 150g TSX out of a 300Wby mag did a perfect job, he also killed a 165 class Ram in Eastern OR the year before with a 95g TSX from a 243 one shot kill @ 250 yards. I think the 300 WM is a good choice the "Ultra Mags" I think if you want to shoot one life is good, I don't think they are needed. And with the premium bullet offerings now I don't think you need the extra heavy bullets to do a "bang" up job on an elk, the heaviest I would go would be the 180g TSX. As for the wind drift if your not comfortable doping the wind at 500 you probably should not take the shot, the ultras will help some on wind drift but not enought to make up for a good understanding of what that wind will do to your shot at that range. And if you spend the time required shooting at the expected MAX range and learning what the wind will do and how to compensate the ultra mag point is irrelevant. | |||
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250 Gr 338/378 W'by, a real winner | |||
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My point wasn't that the 270m was adequate for 500yds, I don't think anyone thinks it is, but rather that the 7mmRemMag was to extend another 150yards past what a 270 really is capable of, around 300yards. If you can hit something with a 7mm at 500yards good for you, but if you can't an "7mm ultra" whatever isn't going to help, and a harder kicking 30cal is simply going to make a bad situation worse. I cannot buy the idea that the difference between 7mm and 7.6mm is all that great. or that any "reasonable" Elk weight TSX's won't do just as much dammage. Myself, either a 7mmMag with 150's or an '06 with 165's and plan on a lot of belly crawling to get closer. I gotta invite a need for my asbostos suit here, but I'm betting that 98% of the shooters participating in this thread couldn't hit the driver's door of a Ford Explorer at 500yds 10-of-10 tries let along hit an elk properly and that ONLY if they estimate the range correctly. and there is no wind. At 500yards in open country crossrange drift can be several feet in a relatively mild crosswind. Very few people can allow for all those variables WITH experience, why assume this complete stranger is in that league? I think a Sendero in either 7mmMag or 300Mag in short a rifle which he is more likely to practice with before the trip is probably the way to go... And picking a rifle for a stranger who I've never met? I tend to recommend towards a somewhat lighter caliber because it's better to avoid a rifle that'll generate a flinch. To all those out there who will cheerfully recommend a flinch generator... you just ain't thinkin' it through... Or the short form the original pose asked 300Winchester Mag or 300Remington Ultra Mag? My answer? 300Winchester and stay away from the 200gr bullets, if you are going to use partitions or TSX's stick with the 180's and think seriously about 165's. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Allen: In 1962 the 7Mag was introduced with 2 bullet weights. A 150gr at a CLAIMED 3260 fps and a 175gr at a CLAIMED 3070 fps. According to Ken Waters in a Pet Loads article, the actual velocities in a 24" bbl were 3151 and 2998. IIRC a 125gr load was introduced in the late '60's or early '70's at a CLAIMED velocity of about 3350. It seems to me that the 175 was for elk and the 150 and later 125 were for deer/antelope. Not to pic nits but I don't remember anything about it being developed to kill elk with 140's. | |||
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You are more than likely right, that was before the time I stopped having trouble crawling... Remember that the bullets of the time (Nosler partition aside as back then it was a handload only proposition) weren't real reliable anyway... I think if I were Elk hunting in 1962 and was forced to use remington CoreLokt ammo I'd probably opt for the 175 myself. But it isn't 1962, it's 2006 and I have 140gr Barnes TSX bullets available. "claimed" 3070 for 175's? I have an issue with that. that velocity is hard to achieve with the most modern propellants 44 years later. 3250 for a 150gr IS possible with modern handloads, personally I like 140's at 3350 or from one particularly fast 26" Remington I've tested at 3430! Has the guy ever shot a 300Mag? many people complain about a 30-06 with 180's think they are going to complain less or practice more with a rifle that shoots the same bullets 200fps faster? Or an Ultra Mag that shoots them ANOTHER 200fps faster? And after all that and practice, practice practicing the elk will probably walk out from behind a clump of brush at 35yards... because life is always perverse.... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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At long range the problem is not only hiting but hiting hard. I use a 7mm Ultra on long range deer but if I were looking for something for Elk I would get the Sendero in .338 Ultra if I could find one. Another good bet is the .338-.378 Weatherby. | |||
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The 300 win mag will do it! I'm getting 3200 fps with a 180 gr Barnes TSX with no pressure signs and 3/4" groups. At 7000 feet altitude that's 2500 ft lbs at 500 yards. As far as scopes go http://www.riflescopes.com/products/51733/kahles_4-12x5...izero_riflescope.htm JMHO ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Man but You guys really like to read things into a question. I know LR shooting is a hotbutton issue but there are people who are capable to pull it off. We are looking for the ability IF NEEDED to kill an elk out to 500 yds. We will of course strive to shoot much closer to 200 yds if we can. The future owner of the rifle is a very accomplished shooter. Recoil and skill is not going to be a concern. I am leaning towards a .300 Win mag in a Sendero. Sorry I started such a pissin match. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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My Leica LRF 1200 said that this Elk was 536 yds away when I made a "lucky" shot:  The rifle is a 300 RUM Sako M-75 with Swarovski 4-16x50 PH with a TDS reticle. It's the rifle I would take along if I was hunting with you. I think the 300 RUM is a slightly better choice than the 300 Win for LR hunting because it will shoot 200gr bullets to about the same velocities that the 300 WIN will shoot 180gr Bullets. The 200gr bullets drift less, penetrate more and arrive with more authority than 180gr bullets. I think the TDS reticle is the finest long range hunting reticle currently available. It's not too busy and simple to use. Also it's available in some great scopes. The 4-16PH is a little heavy but nice for Long Range. For short to mid range I opt for a 3-12Ph with the TDS. The Leupold Boone and Crocket is an unlicensed knock-off of the TDS and as such is still a decent reticle even if it miffs TD Smith, and Leupolds are decent scopes if not as good Optically as the Swarovski PH's they are lighter. Nothing really wrong with the other 300's I just think the 300 RUM with 200gr bullets is about ideal for long range Elk, at least it's worked for me so far..................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Thank you DJpaintles for responding to my question. I see that the 300RUM with 200 grainers worked for you. Congratulations on the elk. Mink and Wall Tents don't go together. Especially when you are sleeping in the Wall Tent. DRSS .470 & .500 | |||
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300 RUM of course. | |||
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My own elk rifles are a pair of custom 300ultramags built on 700 actions with match grade medium varmint barrels,bedded into mcmillan stocks.My hunting load drives the 180gr tsx at 3380fps which is quite flat shooting and retains more than enough energy at 500 yards. Then again my 7mmstws launching the 140gr tsx at 3500fps shoot slightly flatter and still provide adequate energy and penetration at 500 yards. | |||
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If you ar eopen to suggestions, skip the sendero, you will only be firing one or two shots, you won't need the bull barrel. Instead invest into something with a quality match barrel, it will give you a good first shot through a clean barrel which is more important and will be easy to carry. As for caliber, I would lean more to the .338 (either Win , Lapua, or RUM) over the 300. The bullets will have the energy at 500 that the 300's can only dream of. Also, the .338 have a high B.C which will help them avoid wind drift. John | |||
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neverflinch, I know you said 7remmag but I thought a more realistic comparison was w/ the 7STW or a 7RUm, if you just have to burn that much powder. I like my 7mmDakota & would feel fine w/ a 160grNP @ 3250fps from a good rest & little wind (yeah, like that happens much in Montana). I love ht ebig .34s but it's a lot of pounding for a once a year shot. The big 7s or a .30mag is a bit more user friendly.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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