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From Norma's site:
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Obviously I have missed something.....I didn't know that there was a lead ban.....can someone fill me in on the details please?....is it a US law? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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It appears to apply to Sweden Wes Webber An Armed Society Is a Polite Society | |||
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Yep! I was fishing for replies. After Fjold wrote this:
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There's a movement afoot, particularly in the EU, to ban or severely restrict many lead containing articles. There was some discussion on the topic here on AR several months ago, though I don't recall in which forum. A search should turn it up. Though it probably won't have any immediate impact on sporting ammo in the US, one would be delinquent not to see the writing on the wall. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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California is currently awaiting their Dept of Fish & Wildlife's (or whatever their Fins and Feathers Dept is called) recommendation from studies on the lead ban issue in the condor's range. There is likely to be a ROD issued sometime early to mid summer. I don't think anyone is anticipating positive results in that state for lead containing bullets. I suspect bullets are much like cars, as California goes, so goes much of the rest of the union. As it stands now, Barnes has a huge corner of the market share, Nosler is playing catch up. I can't see where others will just stand still. | |||
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time to start to learn how to swage or stock up for a lifetime 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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In case anyone really wants to know !. California is currently awaiting their Dept of Fish & Wildlife's (or whatever their Fins and Feathers Dept is called) It's Dip Shit Central !. One will have to ring the Senate though because the Head Dip Shitress is now speaker of what I'm not quite sure of !. Thanks to her fellow Lackies Boxer & Fienstein it's a wonder anyone in CA is allowed to Breathe . Let alone own a weapon !. Now they're a true democracy !. The inevitable failure of a Democratic Society begins when the voice of the minority are allowed to be heard !. ( Roman Emperor Constantine ) ... | |||
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I was living out there a few years ago and was shocked that you have use barbless hooks to give the fish a chance. What a crock. | |||
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yes unfortunately cali is a "mother may i" state thus my tagline... 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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It's true!! First thoughts about a lead shot ban a decade or three ago kinda took everyone by surprise. NOW WE have to LIVE with it!! These Dirty B-----Ds will do ANYTHING to "squeeze" us from our guns and hunting. CHARLEY FOXTROT all over again!!! "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet III/ii | |||
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Liberal insanity. They have on sense what-so-ever. The whole damned world is going loco. Lunatics, all of them. Don | |||
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my crystal ball tells me Barnes is gonna be shipping alot of 6.5's to sweden. | |||
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California has already made it's decision. Reported by Shooting Illustrated in the June 2007 issue on page 12, the article stated that the Tejon Ranch will ban all lead projectiles (rimfire, centerfire, shot, muzzleloader) on the 270,000 public hunting preserve effective during the 2008 hunting season. This is to protect the Condor. Also stated that postponed the ban until 2008 "to allow hunters to obtain and test non-lead alternatives." Hunters, which average more than 1800 per year, will have to be able to certify their bullets are lead free. This is just the first few nails in the coffin. As we all know, California is hyperanal about lead--anything that has trace amounts of lead or has been exposed to lead has warning labels all over it. Interesting that Norma did not think lead causes environmental damage, whie nickel and tungsten are "toxic." | |||
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My understanding was the Tejon Ranch was private organization's decision and not the State of California's ruling. The State will issuing a Record of Decision sometime soon, likely in June, from their Fish & Game Dept's finding. That was from the SCI emails. I do expect that the State will elect to ban lead within the Condor's range, if I were a betting man. Over time, I would guess the rest of the state would follow. With that, I also suspect it will become a Federal policy implemented by USF&WS and implemented on all Fed lands. | |||
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jnemmers quoted, "Interesting that Norma did not think lead causes environmental damage, whie nickel and tungsten are "toxic" Please explain how lead causes a "Environmental" damage from a rifle or shotgun barrel? | |||
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I don't know; that was my point. | |||
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This is certainly going to affect those of us who shoot round lead balls! "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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I don't think we have anything to worry about. A total lead ban would create problems for all the shooting sports, skeet trap, sporting clays etc. Not to mention us round ball shooters. It would be very hard to justify any environmental impact. The lead shot (for waterfowl) ban was because the birds were (supposedly) ingesting the shot and dying from lead poisoning. I would think there would be more environmental argument for banning lead batteries & lead alloys in aluminum etc. But, we've had a pretty friendly administration for the past 6.5 yrs. Who knows what stupidity would ensue if (God forbid) Hillary or one of the other Chicken Little types gets into office. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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They want to save the condors by switching to all copper, etc,? I feel sure I could pop a condor with a Barnes as well as a Core-Lokt. ? Anyway, the lead bullet/fish sinker issue is a matter of the liberal's GlobalWarming religion; "Don't need no stinkin' facts, it's true because I believe it!" Actually, lead is a naturally occuring mineral in the earth - aren't they all? - but the tree huggers fear it so we must dig it up, collect it and put it back in a more special hole in the ground so they can feel safe. That's somewhat like them declaring certain areas to be "gun-free zones", it's not really about safety, it's only that they may "feel" safer! Feelings count a lot with liberals. Thinking doesn't. They "think" (feel) that bullets are bad, even those that have been fired and are now drilled into the dirt are still lethal in the mind of a liberal. | |||
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This has gotta be one of the biggest wastes of time and (still more) taxpayer $$ I've yet seen. Yes, lead is toxic to living things, but where does lead come from? The ground!! How is moving a natural element from one place to another (in pathetic quantities, no less) going to decimate the endangered whatever? It's not like there's mountains of lead being used in hunting situations; hell, most of the time the bullets don't even exit the animal! You've got to be kidding me on this one. It would figure this would happen in Europe, but soon Kalifornia... Here's a better idea: worry about shit that matters! Banning the use of lead in hunting bullets is like peeing in the ocean - no one will ever notice. In all the years buns and bullets have been around, I've never heard of anyone getting poisoned from handling them. These liberals get a bug up their ass and it's a whole campaign... _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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Imagine what a lead ban would do to the price of 22 RF ammo. Best stock up now - at least it's cheaper to put in a lifetime supply. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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This isn't about protecting the enviroment, it's about erroding our ability to shoot/own firearms. They can't ban guns but they can make them useless by messing w/ the ammo. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Yep! The sumbeaches. Sounds like a new approach to slow down guns. The funny part is, they're organized. If we banned together the way they do, our voices would be heard. As Hogkiller says "Ignore your rights and they'll go away". | |||
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I'm just waiting for the Al Gore "lead" movie to come out and brainwash everyone.... _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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The Swedish lead ban January 2008 is postponed. Most likley will lead in rifle bullets be allowed in the future according to the current proposition from the departments for the enviroment and chemicals. Lead in shotgun shells will only be allowed when hunting mammals like hares, foxes and roe dears. Clay shooting is limited to steel or alternative pellets, not a big problem when you have a modern 2 3/4" or 3", but a bit awkward when you like me love old british damascus barrels with 2 1/2". | |||
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The only way a lead core bullet is gonna hurt a Condor is if ya shoot the SOB! Rich Elliott Rich Elliott Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris | |||
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Where did you see that the ban has been postponed? I`ve never seen it. The politicians hav said that "probably the best thing is to postpone the lead ban..." That is a big difference. 6 and a half month to go.... | |||
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Yes, your right asti. But the right wing government aswell as the Social Democrats have said that they don't like the total lead ban, only the Green Party likes it. But on the other hand, who trust politicans? http://jagareforbundet.se/news/ljusning_i_blyfragan.asp | |||
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lets see 'em ban wheel weights. | |||
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Well the 6,5 x55 might be banned from big Game hunting in Sweden and only as a hunitng caliber for roedeer , and others, cause the minimum weight is 140 grain. The Barnes bullets in the weight is to long and it wont hold up to the stabillize the weight properly if the ban comes through | |||
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Apparently according to Norma's website:
Re the bold part above:
Learn more about the best premium copper bullets on the market here. OWLS My Africa, with which I will never be able to live without! | |||
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Good point. That apparently used to be an issue with monometal copper bullets, but after some complaints, newer designs (TSX, E-tip, etc.) have been introduced that make this a non issue in modern rifles. I'm still not sure why Norma's website would say something like that - I guess to keep them from having to re-engineer a new bullet to comply with the ban. _____________________________________________________ No safe queens! | |||
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Yes, but California is not part of the real world. Who hunts there anyway, other than those stuck there? Hopefully, it will soon drop off the edge making Nevada oceanfront property! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by KSTEPHENS: lets see 'em ban wheel weights. [/QUOTE I have already seen a lot of ww's made of zinc. It's a real PITA to go through them to seperate the zn from the pb. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by brayhaven: The lead shot (for waterfowl) ban was because the birds were (supposedly) ingesting the shot and dying from lead poisoning. [QUOTE] Uhh actually that's not quite right... the ORIGINAL reason for the lead ban for waterfoul hunting was the arguement that waterfoul would eat the lead shot and then in turn be eaten by eagles giving THEM lead poisoning... If that sounds far-fetched it should, but it was the reason that the first few bans were enacted. It entirely ignores that the eagles in question ate fish... as for copper bullets that "only expand at high velocity" they are a bit out of touch... Barnes manages to make solid copper bullets that expand when fired from a 30-30 and that isn't any slower than various "european calibers". AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Allen et al: I was fortunate enough to be exposed to a part of the lead shot ban when it was first researched. I have a good friend who recently retired from the USFWS. Back in the late 70s, one of his tasks was to collect the gizzards of all waterfowl taken on two of the Federal Wildlife Refuges down here in TX where he worked. The refuges allowed waterfowling, and the employees there collected the gizzards, froze them and then later thawed, dissected, etc., looking for lead pellets. They of course found VERY few, because lead sank into the ground below the water to a depth that the ducks and geese couldn't pick it up. None the less, the lead ban on shot happened. What my friend told me was that there was a man by the name of Stutzenbaker that did a study on the decline of the South Texas Mottled Duck, and blamed it on lead ingestion. In actuality, (and I remember this happening as well), what happened was that during the mid-70s, rice prices fell and soybeans became the crop of choice. A lot of former rice farmers went to dry land farming for soybeans, draining the prairie potholes that the rice fields had in and around them. That took out a lot of nesting areas, and forced the ducks to nest in the salt marsh, where coons, coyotes, skunks, opossums, hawks and every other predator were/are more concentrated. The rest, as they say, is history. | |||
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