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Jan 1st 2008 Lead Ban.
02 May 2007, 10:07
.366torqueJan 1st 2008 Lead Ban.
From Norma's site:
quote:
2004-12-22
The Lead Ban of January 1, 2008
From January 1, 2008, it will not be possible to sell hunting and sporting ammunition, containing lead, meaning with bullets containing lead cores.
We could load bullets of any kind of material, but we feel that there is no good substitute for lead as of today, and that metallic lead does not cause any environmental problems. The latter opinion is also shared by Björn Gillberg and Ulf Qvarfort, among others.
The present, existing â€alternatives†are nearly all based on copper. The copper is toxic and being as hard as it is, the copper bullet only expands acceptably at a very high velocity. You could load these bullets in a 7 mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag, but hardly in any of the slower European calibers. If the velocity at impact is not high enough, the bullet does not expand, but goes right through, like a full metal jacket. The consequences are long escapes, tracking and unnecessary suffering for the wounded animal.
Therefore, we fully comply with the official letters of the SVA* and the Swedish Hunting Association to the Swedish Government, in which both organizations express their opinion of postponing the lead ban to a time when reasonable alternatives exist.
To be able to continue hunting at all, it must be guaranteed that the killing of the animal is done in an ethical way. Therefore we need to keep the lead – at least for the time being!
PS At hunts for roe deer, moose and wild boar , 6 tons of lead is used every year - at practise and sporting, another 50 tons.
PPS Attemps that the American Army have made, using bullet cores of nickel and tungsten, have been terminated, since this material turned out to be carcinogen.
02 May 2007, 17:29
vapodogObviously I have missed something.....I didn't know that there was a lead ban.....can someone fill me in on the details please?....is it a US law?
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It appears to apply to Sweden
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02 May 2007, 18:29
.366torqueYep! I was fishing for replies. After Fjold wrote this:
quote:
Posted 12 April 2007 20:48 Hide Post
Nosler is looking forward as there will be many lead bullet bans coming up in the next few years.
Frank
02 May 2007, 19:08
DesertRamThere's a movement afoot, particularly in the EU, to ban or severely restrict many lead containing articles. There was some discussion on the topic here on AR several months ago, though I don't recall in which forum. A search should turn it up. Though it probably won't have any immediate impact on sporting ammo in the US, one would be delinquent not to see the writing on the wall.
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03 May 2007, 02:26
DPhillipsCalifornia is currently awaiting their Dept of Fish & Wildlife's (or whatever their Fins and Feathers Dept is called) recommendation from studies on the lead ban issue in the condor's range. There is likely to be a ROD issued sometime early to mid summer. I don't think anyone is anticipating positive results in that state for lead containing bullets.
I suspect bullets are much like cars, as California goes, so goes much of the rest of the union. As it stands now, Barnes has a huge corner of the market share, Nosler is playing catch up. I can't see where others will just stand still.
03 May 2007, 02:34
boom sticktime to start to learn how to swage or stock up for a lifetime
In case anyone really wants to know !.
California is currently awaiting their Dept of Fish & Wildlife's (or whatever their Fins and Feathers Dept is called)
It's Dip Shit Central !.
One will have to ring the Senate though because the Head Dip Shitress is now speaker of what I'm not quite sure of !.
Thanks to her fellow Lackies Boxer & Fienstein it's a wonder anyone in CA is allowed to Breathe . Let alone own a weapon !.
Now they're a true democracy !.
The inevitable failure of a Democratic Society begins when the voice of the minority are allowed to be heard !. ( Roman Emperor Constantine ) ...

I was living out there a few years ago and was shocked that you have use barbless hooks to give the fish a chance. What a crock.
03 May 2007, 07:31
boom stickyes unfortunately cali is a "mother may i" state

thus my tagline...
It's true!! First thoughts about a lead shot ban a decade or three ago kinda took everyone by surprise. NOW WE have to LIVE with it!!
These Dirty B-----Ds will do ANYTHING to "squeeze" us from our guns and hunting.
CHARLEY FOXTROT all over again!!!
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
Hamlet III/ii
Liberal insanity.
They have on sense what-so-ever.
The whole damned world is going loco.

Lunatics, all of them.
Don
03 May 2007, 16:51
KSTEPHENSmy crystal ball tells me Barnes is gonna be shipping alot of 6.5's to sweden.
04 May 2007, 07:06
1911reloaderCalifornia has already made it's decision. Reported by Shooting Illustrated in the June 2007 issue on page 12, the article stated that the Tejon Ranch will ban all lead projectiles (rimfire, centerfire, shot, muzzleloader) on the 270,000 public hunting preserve effective during the 2008 hunting season. This is to protect the Condor. Also stated that postponed the ban until 2008 "to allow hunters to obtain and test non-lead alternatives." Hunters, which average more than 1800 per year, will have to be able to certify their bullets are lead free.
This is just the first few nails in the coffin. As we all know, California is hyperanal about lead--anything that has trace amounts of lead or has been exposed to lead has warning labels all over it.
Interesting that Norma did not think lead causes environmental damage, whie nickel and tungsten are "toxic."
04 May 2007, 08:13
DPhillipsMy understanding was the Tejon Ranch was private organization's decision and not the State of California's ruling. The State will issuing a Record of Decision sometime soon, likely in June, from their Fish & Game Dept's finding.
That was from the SCI emails. I do expect that the State will elect to ban lead within the Condor's range, if I were a betting man. Over time, I would guess the rest of the state would follow. With that, I also suspect it will become a Federal policy implemented by USF&WS and implemented on all Fed lands.
04 May 2007, 10:49
Norsemanjnemmers quoted,
"Interesting that Norma did not think lead causes environmental damage, whie nickel and tungsten are "toxic"
Please explain how lead causes a "Environmental" damage from a rifle or shotgun barrel?
04 May 2007, 16:35
1911reloaderI don't know; that was my point.
04 May 2007, 17:00
El DeguelloThis is certainly going to affect those of us who shoot round lead balls!
"Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen."
04 May 2007, 17:15
brayhavenquote:
Originally posted by El Deguello:
This is certainly going to affect those of us who shoot round lead balls!
I don't think we have anything to worry about. A total lead ban would create problems for all the shooting sports, skeet trap, sporting clays etc. Not to mention us round ball shooters. It would be very hard to justify any environmental impact. The lead shot (for waterfowl) ban was because the birds were (supposedly) ingesting the shot and dying from lead poisoning. I would think there would be more environmental argument for banning lead batteries & lead alloys in aluminum etc.
But, we've had a pretty friendly administration for the past 6.5 yrs. Who knows what stupidity would ensue if (God forbid) Hillary or one of the other Chicken Little types gets into office.
"You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener
04 May 2007, 18:18
Jim C. <><They want to save the condors by switching to all copper, etc,? I feel sure I could pop a condor with a Barnes as well as a Core-Lokt. ?
Anyway, the lead bullet/fish sinker issue is a matter of the liberal's GlobalWarming religion; "Don't need no stinkin' facts, it's true because I believe it!"
Actually, lead is a naturally occuring mineral in the earth - aren't they all? - but the tree huggers fear it so we must dig it up, collect it and put it back in a more special hole in the ground so they can feel safe. That's somewhat like them declaring certain areas to be "gun-free zones", it's not really about safety, it's only that they may "feel" safer!
Feelings count a lot with liberals. Thinking doesn't. They "think" (feel) that bullets are bad, even those that have been fired and are now drilled into the dirt are still lethal in the mind of a liberal.
04 May 2007, 20:05
ClaymanThis has gotta be one of the biggest wastes of time and (still more) taxpayer $$ I've yet seen. Yes, lead is toxic to living things, but where does lead come from? The ground!! How is moving a natural element from one place to another (in pathetic quantities, no less) going to decimate the endangered whatever? It's not like there's mountains of lead being used in hunting situations; hell, most of the time the bullets don't even exit the animal! You've got to be kidding me on this one. It would figure this would happen in Europe, but soon Kalifornia... Here's a better idea: worry about shit that matters! Banning the use of lead in hunting bullets is like peeing in the ocean - no one will ever notice. In all the years buns and bullets have been around, I've never heard of anyone getting poisoned from handling them. These liberals get a bug up their ass and it's a whole campaign...
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No safe queens!
04 May 2007, 22:42
ForrestBImagine what a lead ban would do to the price of 22 RF ammo. Best stock up now - at least it's cheaper to put in a lifetime supply.
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04 May 2007, 23:04
fredj338This isn't about protecting the enviroment, it's about erroding our ability to shoot/own firearms. They can't ban guns but they can make them useless by messing w/ the ammo.

LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
06 May 2007, 01:31
.366torquequote:
Originally posted by fredj338:
This isn't about protecting the enviroment, it's about erroding our ability to shoot/own firearms. They can't ban guns but they can make them useless by messing w/ the ammo.
Yep! The sumbeaches. Sounds like a new approach to slow down guns. The funny part is, they're organized. If we banned together the way they do, our voices would be heard. As Hogkiller says "Ignore your rights and they'll go away".
07 May 2007, 18:51
Claymanquote:
Originally posted by .366torque:
Yep! The sumbeaches. Sounds like a new approach to slow down guns. The funny part is, they're organized. If we banned together the way they do, our voices would be heard. As Hogkiller says "Ignore your rights and they'll go away".
I'm just waiting for the Al Gore "lead" movie to come out and brainwash everyone....
_____________________________________________________
No safe queens!
The Swedish lead ban January 2008 is postponed. Most likley will lead in rifle bullets be allowed in the future according to the current proposition from the departments for the enviroment and chemicals. Lead in shotgun shells will only be allowed when hunting mammals like hares, foxes and roe dears. Clay shooting is limited to steel or alternative pellets, not a big problem when you have a modern 2 3/4" or 3", but a bit awkward when you like me love old british damascus barrels with 2 1/2".
08 May 2007, 00:04
Rich ElliottThe only way a lead core bullet is gonna hurt a Condor is if ya shoot the SOB!

Rich Elliott
Rich Elliott
Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris
quote:
Originally posted by CCCP:
The Swedish lead ban January 2008 is postponed. Most likley will lead in rifle bullets be allowed in the future according to the current proposition from the departments for the enviroment and chemicals. Lead in shotgun shells will only be allowed when hunting mammals like hares, foxes and roe dears. Clay shooting is limited to steel or alternative
pellets, not a big problem when you have a modern 2 3/4" or 3", but a bit awkward when you like me love old british damascus barrels with 2 1/2".
Where did you see that the ban has been postponed? I`ve never seen it. The politicians hav said that "probably the best thing is to postpone the lead ban..."
That is a big difference. 6 and a half month to go....

Yes, your right asti. But the right wing government aswell as the Social Democrats have said that they don't like the total lead ban, only the Green Party likes it. But on the other hand, who trust politicans?
http://jagareforbundet.se/news/ljusning_i_blyfragan.asp08 May 2007, 01:35
KSTEPHENSlets see 'em ban wheel weights.

10 May 2007, 22:55
.366torquequote:
Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
lets see 'em ban wheel weights.

11 May 2007, 00:40
mr rigbyWell the 6,5 x55 might be banned from big Game hunting in Sweden and only as a hunitng caliber for roedeer , and others, cause the minimum weight is 140 grain.
The Barnes bullets in the weight is to long and it wont hold up to the stabillize the weight properly if the ban comes through
Apparently according to Norma's website:
quote:
The present, existing â€alternatives†are nearly all based on copper. The copper is toxic and being as hard as it is, the copper bullet only expands acceptably at a very high velocity. You could load these bullets in a 7 mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag, but hardly in any of the slower European calibers. If the velocity at impact is not high enough, the bullet does not expand, but goes right through, like a full metal jacket. The consequences are long escapes, tracking and unnecessary suffering for the wounded animal.
Re the bold part above:
quote:
The bullet is designed for longer ranges and high speeds that can be achieved with large cased 7mm Calibers. It will be at it's best when used in barrels with a twist rate of between 1:9" and 1:10.3". Speeds of 3900fps are reachable with calibers such as the 7mm STW with 26" barrels. The bullet will mushroom reliably from impact speeds as low as 1600fps with 100% weight retention and at impact speeds of 4000fps weight retention of better than 50% is expected.
Learn more about the best premium copper bullets on the market
here.
OWLS
My Africa, with which I will never be able to live without!
12 May 2007, 00:22
Claymanquote:
Originally posted by Jagter:
Apparently according to Norma's website:
quote:
The present, existing â€alternatives†are nearly all based on copper. The copper is toxic and being as hard as it is, the copper bullet only expands acceptably at a very high velocity. You could load these bullets in a 7 mm Rem Mag or a 300 Win Mag, but hardly in any of the slower European calibers. If the velocity at impact is not high enough, the bullet does not expand, but goes right through, like a full metal jacket. The consequences are long escapes, tracking and unnecessary suffering for the wounded animal.
Re the bold part above:
quote:
The bullet is designed for longer ranges and high speeds that can be achieved with large cased 7mm Calibers. It will be at it's best when used in barrels with a twist rate of between 1:9" and 1:10.3". Speeds of 3900fps are reachable with calibers such as the 7mm STW with 26" barrels. The bullet will mushroom reliably from impact speeds as low as 1600fps with 100% weight retention and at impact speeds of 4000fps weight retention of better than 50% is expected.
Learn more about the best premium copper bullets on the market
here.
Good point. That apparently used to be an issue with monometal copper bullets, but after some complaints, newer designs (TSX, E-tip, etc.) have been introduced that make this a non issue in modern rifles. I'm still not sure why Norma's website would say something like that - I guess to keep them from having to re-engineer a new bullet to comply with the ban.
_____________________________________________________
No safe queens!
14 May 2007, 08:04
Don Slaterquote:
Originally posted by DPhillips:
California is currently awaiting their Dept of Fish & Wildlife's (or whatever their Fins and Feathers Dept is called) recommendation from studies on the lead ban issue in the condor's range. There is likely to be a ROD issued sometime early to mid summer. I don't think anyone is anticipating positive results in that state for lead containing bullets.
I suspect bullets are much like cars, as California goes, so goes much of the rest of the union. As it stands now, Barnes has a huge corner of the market share, Nosler is playing catch up. I can't see where others will just stand still.
Yes, but California is not part of the real world. Who hunts there anyway, other than those stuck there?
Hopefully, it will soon drop off the edge making Nevada oceanfront property!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
lets see 'em ban wheel weights.

[/QUOTE
I have already seen a lot of ww's made of zinc. It's a real PITA to go through them to seperate the zn from the pb.
15 May 2007, 23:28
Allan DeGroot[QUOTE]Originally posted by brayhaven:
The lead shot (for waterfowl) ban was because the birds were (supposedly) ingesting the shot and dying from lead poisoning. [QUOTE]
Uhh actually that's not quite right...
the ORIGINAL reason for the lead ban for waterfoul hunting was the arguement that waterfoul would eat the lead shot and then in turn be eaten by eagles giving THEM lead poisoning...
If that sounds far-fetched it should, but it was the reason that the first few bans were enacted.
It entirely ignores that the eagles in question ate fish...
as for copper bullets that "only expand at high velocity" they are a bit out of touch...
Barnes manages to make solid copper bullets that expand when fired from a 30-30 and that isn't any slower than various "european calibers".
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16 May 2007, 00:38
DoublessAllen et al:
I was fortunate enough to be exposed to a part of the lead shot ban when it was first researched. I have a good friend who recently retired from the USFWS. Back in the late 70s, one of his tasks was to collect the gizzards of all waterfowl taken on two of the Federal Wildlife Refuges down here in TX where he worked. The refuges allowed waterfowling, and the employees there collected the gizzards, froze them and then later thawed, dissected, etc., looking for lead pellets. They of course found VERY few, because lead sank into the ground below the water to a depth that the ducks and geese couldn't pick it up.
None the less, the lead ban on shot happened. What my friend told me was that there was a man by the name of Stutzenbaker that did a study on the decline of the South Texas Mottled Duck, and blamed it on lead ingestion. In actuality, (and I remember this happening as well), what happened was that during the mid-70s, rice prices fell and soybeans became the crop of choice. A lot of former rice farmers went to dry land farming for soybeans, draining the prairie potholes that the rice fields had in and around them. That took out a lot of nesting areas, and forced the ducks to nest in the salt marsh, where coons, coyotes, skunks, opossums, hawks and every other predator were/are more concentrated. The rest, as they say, is history.