The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 358 Win & 35 WhelenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I'm looking at building a 358 Win  .I have a NIB Model 70 Classic Compact 308 Win just awaiting such an order. I have always liked & wanted this cal, but as the years move on it seems to always dodge me. Plus I've already got myself a super accurate 7mm-08 Rem that replaced an older 308. I'm extremely happy with the 7-08, so you can see why I'm thinking about de-barreling the Model 70. Here's the question = Is there much difference between the 358 Win & 35 Whelen using 225 & 250gner's out to 250m? The 35 Whelen option, if I went down that road. Would be to buy a NIB Ruger Hawkeye as the donor. Luv to hear all your thoughts & comments regarding these two great cal's. Cheers, 340  | ||
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340, I've owned a couple of both and I've grown to appreciate the 358 a bit over the whelen. My first Whelen was a Remington Classic that shot like a demon... it loved Sierra 225 SBTs and 225 gr Nosler BTs. Only problem, it was an obnoxious rifle to shoot. I could, and would rather crank a box out of my 416 Rem or 500 A-Square than to do a box of shells out of that Whelen. I had another built on a P17 action that loved the Sierras as well. Recoil wasn't that much of an issue. As for 358's, I had a Douglas barrel put on a Remington 788 that likes the Sierras and is a pleasure to shot (and carry). My newest is a Savage 99 Featherweight. The recoil is up, but not bad, but I haven't been able to get it on paper, even at 20 yards. I'm used to boresighting the old "look-down-the-tube" method I learned at the Armor School... can't do it with a lever. Anyway, when all is said and done, the 358 does the same job as the Whelen (to the naked eye,) and has my vote. That being said... I came within a gnat's ass of buying another Whelen on a BRNO action last weekend. Performance won't slant your choice, your heart's going to have to take over on this one. Ain't life great? | |||
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I have both a BLR and a custom Mauser in the Whelen. I have not had any issue with recoil and the Whelen. Both rifles are very accurate but the Whelen has a big edge with the 250 grain bullets. I like them both and would build a 358 on a short action bolt gun if I didn't have the BLR. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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340, I have a custom sako in a 358 win at the time. I had a 700 classic in a 35 whelen. They both are accurate arms, but for 90% of my hunting the 358 win does it. Mine has a 1-12 twist and just eats 225 grn and 250grn bullets. It is a true one hole wonder gun. When time and dollars allow, I'm going to have Tip Burns rebarrel a short action 700 and make a lightweight 358 for me. If you want more than a 358 win go for a 9.3x62. Just my two centovos! Ed DRSS Member | |||
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So it boils down to Win 70 and 358 Win, or 35 Whelen and Ruger? I shoot a Whelen but would recommend the 358 Win to you. | |||
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with the ruger you could right all the bad things that the whelen was victimized with via remington. use a 1 in 12 twist (recomended by swift for the 280 grainers) throat it long enough and get a chamber that is not sloppy. a custom 35 whelen is the only way to go. swift 280's wooleigh 310's 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I would compare them to the .308 and the 30-06, on paper the 06 and 35 Whelen win by a little, in the hunting field I doubt that anyone could tell the difference... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Several years ago I built a Whelen for myself on a 110 CL Savage action, and it is still a favorite. No. 1 son wants to build a .358 on his Ruger 77RL action this year; both are great rounds for under 250 yards on just about anything. by the way, I like the 250 grain bullets best, very accurate in my Shilen barrel. Walt | |||
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Got and use them both. M700 35 whelen with 225's and 250's for Moose and Elk, and BLR .358 with 200 gr for deer hunting. Neither seemed too fussy for handloading. Seems to me that the package carrying the round might drive you to the shorter or longer cartridge! | |||
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Some of the guys here try to say that bullets heavier than 250 grains are more important that the lighter slugs but I say I don't need anything heavier than 250 grains and if I did I would get a 375 of some sort. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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rickt300 I did just that. I never needed anything over 200 gr with the Savage99. But for the bigger stuff on another continent, If I can ever save enough to go, I have a 9.3 X 74. Packy | |||
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I have had a 35 Whelen for a few years, so, I am somewhat biased: Dad:  Me:  Both killed with my Whelen built on a VZ-24. Regarding the 700 Classic in the Whelen, Dad has one and I'm with Col K; it beats the ever-loving piss out of me!! HURTS!! Must be due to it's light-ish weight. Recoil isn't bothersome at all out of the Mauser. Are you satisfied with 2400-2500 fps with a 225 gr. bullet? If so, get a 358. More interested in 2600-2700 fps range? Get a Whelen. Recently, Dad decided he wanted to have a rifle built for me in any caliber I wanted on a Montana action. Problem was (is) I don't need anymore calibers. But, since he offered, I cheerfully opted for a 358 Norma Mag. It came in today and I plan to start fireforming cases as soon as I get up from the computer. I know, it's another 35, but I can't wait to try it. Leaving for our annual elk hunt in 2 weeks! Good luck deciding. 35W "Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen | |||
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I've got a stainless BLR 358 winchester that I absolutely love. I've also got remington -06 that I converted to a Whelen. The Whelen definitely has the advantage in loading capacity, but you are able to load the 358 wins. beyond the factory loaded ammo. I generally just shoot the 220 grained factory loaded silver tips for the 358, and handload and use factory for the Whelen. Build a Winchester. It's a great ole cal that's perfect for deer, elk, and beer. It's considered a short range or "brush gun" but If you load it up hotter, it's good out to two hundred on elk. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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358, 225 gr sierra game kings at 2500fps with a 12 twist barrel, 22" long do it, and don't look back... jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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That sounds like it might be right on the money! | |||
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Ditto what jeffeosso said. I have a Winchester Classic Featherweight, short action that Pacnor rebarreled to 358. It's a hunting son-of-a-bitch. It really likes 225 Sierra SPBTs and IMR 4320. I also a have a Ruger #1A in 35W that will be a real pleasure to carry. Both rounds are equally great in my book, but if I had to chose one it would the 358 becuase it will fit into a short action bolt gun and it dosen't give up much to the Whelen with 225 grain and lighter bullets. Lou **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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The 2007 Ruger catalog lists the .358 win as a factory chabering in the hawkey . Both stainless and blue. In 06 it was just blue. If I were you I would hang onto that 308 or sell it and finance a whelen project. Ya know there are nt many short action M-70s with a standard bolt face. As to the cartridge preferance, My whelen gives 2600 FPS with a 250 grain. And I have no problem with the recoil...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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I cannot find any listings for the 358Win/Hawkeye-blued configuration in either the 2007 catalog or Rugers website. Where abouts? | |||
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Coincidently I spoke w/ Ruger customer svc last week looking for a blued & walnut .358 H'eye. They told me they'd be shipping them in approx 4-6 weeks. | |||
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From your original post I would do the 358 Win on the model 70 action. Concerning the Rem classic in 35 Whelen
I had the exact same issue with one I owned for a "short" time. | |||
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My first question to questions like these seem to be always the same...what are you going to use it for? What type of game? Hunting conditions... Very open with long shots possible or woods so dense a 50 yard shot is the long average... Style of hunting... Still hunting, tree stand, tower blind, ground blind, spot and stalk at long range?? How long/heavy a rifle you want? Scope power needs..low or high end? Between myself and three freinds we have eight or more rifles in .350 RM, .358 Winchester and .35 Whelen. Almost all of my hunting is in dense stands of trees or sapplings with the longest shot in 20+ deer taken by myself or freinds has been 80 yards. All my rifles are SHORT...the longest barrel is on the M600 .350 RM at 18.5". Can't be beat in the thick stuff or out of a tree stand. Favorite bullets so far have been the Speer 220 HotCore and the 225 Nosler Petition. A friend just took his 5th Black Bear with a M673 using a 220 Speer at 2675 fps....not one bear has taken a step... Many of his friends..this year included, have lost bear with lesser calibers (and probably less than great shot placement). Bob Makowski | |||
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I didn't read all the posts, but the guys that have said that the whelen beats them up, if I may, try a recoil pad such as limbsaver or at least a pachmyer(better looking of the two). I have the m700 in cdl it comes with a limbsaver on it, there is no way I would shoot it with a old style recoil pad or with a plastic butt plate," whew" that would hurt. As to getting either a 358 or a 35 whelen the whelen would do both jobs, in the woods and more range in open country. Pick the rifle you like best in whichever caliber it comes in. Straight shootin to ya | |||
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I've got a lovely little pre-64 m-70 FWT in .358 Win that I LOVE. she shoots well and with 225 gr TSX's is a very deadly little girl. The problem is the little gal is getting to be so rare and valuable I'm half afraid to take her out hunt with her anymore. | |||
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I really can't tell much of a differenc in recoil between my 358 and my whelen. Even when I'm shooting 250 grains out of a 7.5 pound remington, it's not much worse than an -06. However, felt recoil is relative and it really does depend on the stock of the gun, and the guy shooting it. "Sometimes nothing can be a pretty cool hand." 470 Heym; 9.3x74r Chapuis, Heym 450/400 on it's way | |||
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It's not just the Whelen's recoil...it's the recoil of the Whelen in the 700 Classic. I'm tellin' ya, unreal. My 7 lb. Marlin 45-70 with hot 300 gr. loads and a thin plastic buttplate doesn't hurt like the Whelen Classic. 35W "Only accurate rifles are interesting"- Col. Townsend Whelen | |||
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ps...why did the BeanCounters at Remington discontinue the original one caliber a year "Classic" series without doing a nice .358 Winchester. The whole production run would have probably been reserved before the first rifle was made. Done with a 20" barrel and open sights just like the M7 CDL .350 RM now looks like it would have been a no-brainer. Instead they do a 8mm Mauser that they could not GIVE away... Bob | |||
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I have owned and shot both in Ruger MkI's. I would really like to add something, or say there is a big difference. Can't do it. They are a lot alike, but I settled on he Whelen. I just like it better. It's the 358 only a little bit more so. Besides, I like it. Probably how you should decide. Pick the one you like. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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# Large deer. # Mostly woods hunting with 300yd shots on odd occasions. 100-200yd shots the norm. # Spot & stalk with occasional long range shots(My version of long range in 350yds MAX). # 7.9lbs or 3.6kg(field ready) is max I will take up into the mountains, as that is 95% of my hunting. # I only use Leupold Vx11 or Vx111 scopes. With the 2-7x33 being my pet. 340 | |||
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I will agree that the recoil from my Classic is stout and not fun to bench shoot. However, it is one of the easiest rifles I have to sight in, and certainly very nice to carry while hunting. | |||
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On page 52 of my 2007 ruger catalog , it shows the calibers for the hawkeye. It lists both the .338 federal and the .358 win vailable in both the stainless and the blue. My earlier post states the 06 catalog showed only blue for the .358 , but I was mistaken It was only available in SS. I wish they would make it in the whelen in blue, and put sights on it. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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Page 52 on my 2007 only lists the S/S having the 338Fed & 358Win, no listings for the blued/timber. I must have an very early 2007 catalog, as they must of changed this? I will order a new one ASAP. A 35 Whelen with open-sights, my my now your talking. What a sweet deal that would be! 340 PS- Also not listed on the online catalog http://www.ruger.com/Firearms/PDF/Catalogs/RugerFirearms2007-Sm.pdf | |||
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bet my catalog has a mistake and they reprinted your with a corection. The .358 win should have sights too. I would work up a load with a 250 grain round nose for a whelens open sights and use QD scope rings., for loads with spire pointed bullets. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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My 2007 catalog has the cowboy on the cover astride his horse. A blued .358 is not my catalog. Evidently they've revised the catalogs. But, like I mentioned, when I spoke w/ Ruger, they indicated they won't be shipping the blued .358s for another 4-6 weeks. | |||
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Anyone have one of these blued/walnut Hawkeyes in .358 yet? I haven't seen one in the flesh, but am tempted to order one. | |||
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