The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles TSX & TTSX EXPANSION Reliability?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Two things come to mind, Nosler are the bullet by which all others are compared, that alone tells me something, The other thing is Ive seen, bullets pencil through deer and elk, I have been under the assumption that everyone else whos hunted a good deal has observed this, mostly with solids and pointed solids are the most likely to do this..I didn't just make this up for heavens sake, so never say never on bullet behavior.. Yes sir I did see the bullet that came back and hit the tree it was bent like bow or a open horseshoe..nose was pinched shut. It all made since to me, but was astonishing to all in camp apparently...They actually thought someone was shooting there way or at them, so laid low for awhile then went to the elk and the elk had a entrance hole and a exit hole on the same side facing the shooter..It all figured...A phenominum? of course it was and probably as likely to take place again in the next million years..like I said never say never on bullet behavior.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray:  What is interesting and telling is that The good folks at Hornady are actually testing their bullets in ballistic gel and what is more they are doing it head to head with other brands and this is very very insightful. They even publish their tests on their website ! The days of the cup and core bullet or even better the Partition / H mantel type bullet is far from numbered ! ( a word of caution though with the interpretation of ballistics gel tests: The cavity we see in the gel is not a representation of true damage simply because it is a representation of the temporary cavity. This does not necessarily equate to damage) | |||
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I agree, gel ain't flesh, blood and bone by a long shot..I do my testing in dry magazines, they tear a bullet all to hell!! but it does give one an "idea" of which bullets are tough and which ones are soft, then you need to shoot at least 20 or 30 head of game to verify your tests, and a 100 head is a better test..Thank God for cull hunts...AND then your kills didn't match your testing so that was in most cases a waste of time.  such testing is best used with solids it seems to me..Any bullet can and will fail sooner or later for someone, deciding who can identify bullet failure is the hard part as so much bullet failure is a miss or a shot in the guts or wherever...Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My first hand experience is a 6x6 bull elk with a 250Gr Nosler Partition (3 of them) from a 340 Weatherby Mag, a Mule deer, same round 1X, a Moose in the Yukon- 300 Win mag 180 TSX x3, and a Caribou with same rifle 1x. The partitions worked. They shed their front core and mushroomed. Those that hit bone, lost all petals and became a cylinder. Penetration was ok, but they didn't exit. On the Mule Deer, he was shot standing, facing me. Hit him high in the chest and the bullet was in his backstrap, under the skin. For the TSXs- 3 into the ribs of a moose, standing, at a range of 350 yards across a small lake, from prone. Group was about 8-10 inches. One hit a rib and broke it. All found under far side skin, perfectly mushroomed with all petals...pretty as a brochure. Caribou, didn't recover the bullet as it exited. My view...the TSX is a very good bullet. No complaints, would use it again. Maybe not optimal for very light game...but it would work if shot placement was correct. | |||
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Or is based on each individuals Personal belief in what is success and what is failure. I like bullets to exit so there will be a blood trail in case the animal does not drop on the spot while some don't, wanting the bullet to expend all its energy in the animal. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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In my old fashioned mind the best of all possible worlds would be a heavy for caliber bullet with a Woodleigh front, a real partition / A-Frame with no open place on the base for the lead to squeeze out and a boattail. A lot of people say NorthFork is all of that but they don't make anything in .510 caliber (a 600g soft point would be perfect) unless they've just started? Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Crazy, (if you'll accept the old Jackie Gleason conversation partner as a compliment) you've described nicely what people look at. Some want an exit wound, and some want a bullet lump on the offside hide. On strictly hunting grounds, I prefer the exit wound, which means proper bullet for caliber with a high retained sectional density and decent velocity. Of course for souvenirs, I always enjoy a recovered bullet, which sometimes comes from non-broadside shots. As far as expending all the kinetic energy, I lean towards using enough rifle so that I don't see a total energy dump as desirable. A bullet with excessive energy and penetration ability will get the normal jobs done and still have something extra when needed. Yes, I think that the 338 is an excellent deer rifle with good bullets. There are a lot of deep penetrating 338 bullets. For California deer, 160-200 lb live weight, the 243's can work, but a 270 with TTSX on up have some extra reserve, not to mention the 338 again. For buffalo, I like the 416's on up. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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This used to be the best thread out there as many of the old bullets failed and the old Barnes X was the worst of all but many loved it.. Today bullet failure is all but a thing of the past but the thread still prevails for whatever reason of which I don't understand..I would suggest that 99% of the complaints are not valid, but you never know.. What is for sure the is the bullet companies have done their job and deserve good previews.. BTW, the old Winchester PP is still the best cup and core bullet out there followed closely by the Rem Corelokt. I'd use either on NA elk, deer, moose and bear, and find them the equal to most premium bullets. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I pulled two 250 grain Swift A-Frames from a brown bear on Sunday and as usual, it was perfect performance. It dawned on me...how come we never hear complaints about the A Frame? | |||
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Maybe you are the "only" guy using them!  memtbYou should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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Task1 If you are shooting a 7mag, go buy a box of sierra 160gr game kings and your problem will be solved. The 160 bthp works great also, just messier. Your powder of choice and have at it. Great round for elk too. Will save you some money in the process. | |||
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Guys, Directly to the topic of the thread I shot a moose the other day in Newfoundland. Shot was 150 yards and straight on facing me. I was shooting the 338-06 with 210 TTSX at about 2700 fps. Bullet entered the base of the throat through the void that holds the trachea, plowed a 1" furrow down one side of the heart, penetrated the rumen and came to rest in the right ham. Bullet weighed 209 grains and opened nicely. The bull literally went 25 feet and died upright against a tree. Since the bullet hit no heavy bone or dense muscle and still opened I guess we can say that this TTSX opens and since it shot nearly end to end on the moose that penetration was more than adequate. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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My first experience with a Barnes Bullet occurred in 1996 on Newfoundland with the only Moose I have had the chance to shoot. The bullet was a 250 grain Barnes "X" Flat Base, .338 diameter out of my .340 Weatherby. The range was about 60 maybe 70 yards. The moose was standing slightly behind a large evergreen and the only target I had was his chest. It was an offhand shot as the guide and I had walked up on him. I raised the rifle to my shoulder, the scope was an older Steel Tube K6 Weaver with a tapered pointed-top post and cross wire. I held the poit of the post in the hollow between his right shoulder and his neck. At the shot he rocked back on his hind legs, spun to his right and started to run. I had already chambered another round and as his left shoulder swung past, I put the second shot at the rear part of the left shoulder. He stumbled about 10 yards, went down and kicked a time or two and that was it. One of my personal deals on guided hunts is doing the field dressing myself, it just makes the hunt more real to me. Upon the gutting and getting the meat ready for transport, I found the first bullet under the hide at the rear of the left hind leg. It had perfect, "Advertising Quality" expansion and retained about 90% of it original weight. I recovered the second bullet under the skin of its upper neck and it was pretty much in the same condition as the first one. Those two bullets sold me on Barnes bullets. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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My first experience with Barnes TSX, was also with a moose. 338 Win Mag in a Ruger MK II stainless, Federal factory loaded 225 TSX. Approximately, 150 yds, slight angling broadside and very slightly downhill. Shot placement, just behind the leg of the shoulder. Entrance, nicked the rear tendon of leg, took a rib. IF I recall correctly it took a rib or two on the exit. The moose dropped so quickly that I thought that I had missed. I watched the area with my binoculars for a good 5 minutes and listened for any kicking / splashing noise in the swamp. I walked down to check the area which was landmarked by a particular spruce larger than the others. Within about 15 yards of that spruce, I spotted one very dead moose. When field dressing, I was amazed at the effect of the bullet inside the chest cavity. That sold me on Barnes TSX for 338. Plus, that particular factory load shot the tightest groups that I had ever achieved with that rifle. Results on moose have been similar, with hand-loaded 375 Ruger 270gr TSX and 416 Ruger 350 grain TSX. Internal damage has impressed, as well as consistent accuracy. ---------------------------------------------------------------
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I had pretty much the same results on the Musk Ox I shot in Nunavut in 2000. The shots were taken at around 125 yards, + or minus a few yards. The first shot caught the bull tight behind the right shoulder. He stood still for a minute or so and the guides were hollering at me to shoot again and I said let him think about what happened for a minute or so and about that time he began making a stiff legged, shaky turn to the left and when he finally got broadside again the next shot went in behind his left shoulder. He took one step and that was it. I only recovered one bullet, but they it was in the same basic condition as the ones I recovered from the moose 4 years earlier. The only difference this time was that I was using my .375 H&H and 250 grain .375 Barnes "X" Flat Base in my handloads. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Oh, no. I use them too (.338-caliber), and they work just fine. But Swift wants too much money for them. It's a lot cheaper to buy the swift factory ammo. | |||
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The only time I complain about them is at the cash register. Other than that they are great. | |||
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Sounds close to ideal. I'm going to try out some 250gn LRX .338" at 2700fps (just 'cuz we have buffalo around). +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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This is a comment that always amazes me. People have no problem spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on rifles, scopes and hunts, yet squeal like a pig over the cost of a bullet. The one piece of equipment that can make the difference between success or failure, and people want to go cheap, UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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What I amazes me is your reaction to my comments as you don't know anything about me. It should not amaze you that I may differ from your views about bullets, for not two people think alike. I have no idea where you are from, nor how much you pay for bullets. But in Alaska where I live it's difficult for me to buy A-Frame bullets at a price that's at least close to the price I pay for Barnes bullets at the local stores. I have ordered 225 and 250-grain Swift bullets online from Cabela's and other stores, and still have a couple of boxes around. However, the .33-caliber 225-grain 3-Shock Tipped has worked quite well for me on moose, can be loaded faster, and costs less than the Swift bullets. About a month ago i purchased a box of factory-loaded Swift 210-grain Scirocco ammo for $54.00. A bot a 225-grain A-Frame bullets costs me around $62.00 plus shipment. Why should I go out of my way buying the most expensive bullets around when the 3-Shock X Tipped is perfect for me? Do you really think that I am going cheap on this Barnes bullet? Who says that I spend hundreds of dollars on guns and scopes? I do spend a lot of cash on cameras and lenses, but that's all. My coworkers and I don't charge Cash on each other for performing work at each other's homes. I let you figure the rest. | |||
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I simply made a comment about hunters in general!
PLEASE point out where I used YOURS or anyone else's name??????? My comment was not directed at you or any other particular person, but at an attitude I have noticed over the years, that many hunters have that attitude toward the bullets they use. Somehow you missed all my comments on this discussion concerning my use of Barnes Bullets, I use Barnes bullets almost exclusively, the only exception is my wife's ,257 Robert's as it prefers 117 grain Remington round nose Core-locts, which are no longer available, so I am working on switching it to 115 grain TSX's. I did not mean to offend you in anyway, I simply quoted one of your comments, and made a comment about an attitude I have heard many hunters express over the years concerning the ammunition they use! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I loaded the old 120X in a 7mm Rem mag for my pastor down in Texas. We hunted exotics outside Uvalde. he shot a nice Blackbuck around 120yds that was drt. Later he shot a huge Ibex/Spanish goat cross a tad over 400yds. It ran and rolled dead by 20yds. In my mind ( and in later magnums/standards) in calibers under 338 (or thereabouts anyhow) the lighter weights of monos pushed fast is the berries! Even then, I remember a Black Hwaiian ram I shot at 40yds with a 100TSX from a .257BEE that hit it sideways! Since I hit him tight behind the shoulder, it screwed him up big time and he also was drt. I have heard of a 180X doing the same thing on an elk around 30yds from a 300 winmag. Yaw is factor. OTOH I and some frineds used the older 189xbt from the 300 winmag with perfect results on Plains game from Springbuk, blesbuk, Impala on up through zebra/kudu/wildebeest and the big Namibian gemsbok. Even then, from 338, 35cal, .375 using Barnes X and xbts made bigger holes all the way through, except on one zebras initial shoulder shot. It was a tad over 100yds, I used the 210xbt @3200 from a 340W. She stumbled bad recovered and my second shot I brained her, pass through but no damage to the hide. All this to say that to me, the 7mm mag is a fine deer rifle and I would use the 120 TTSX and pop them in the shoulders. Hogs behind the head with anything ( I like to eat them!  ) | |||
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Just amazes me that some continue to  The typical story on Barnes is "I shot something once and the bullet 'penciled on through'" . Well there are only a few scenarios that fit that experience. Either the impact velocity was so high that the petals blew off or you are used to seeing huge exit holes from conventional bullets which Barnes do not do. Monometals do not impart as much energy in a target animal because they don't open up as much as other bullets but they do out penetrate just about anything else. Aim accordingly and they will work for you. Luckily there are lots of other bullets to choose from so if you don't have confidence in Barnes, use something else. Now can we please  this topic and quit  ?Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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A person should use whatever bullet/caliber/powder/primer/scope/ brand of rifle they like! That is the beauty of things we have the ability to choose. My only hang up is when someone tries something they already do not have confidence in because of the claims of others, One Time , and declares whatever it is to be no good because you already expect them to fail. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CHC, just out of curiosity I went back and counted the number of posts you made in this thread alone. 53 times you have had something to say and most of it is repetitive.......gotta be an AR record of some sort. Congrats. | |||
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What does it matter how many times I respond to a subject I am interested in? I do not recall the PTB's of this place stipulating a limit on how many times a member can respond on any topic. I also do not remember any rules stating that any member had to read or respond to any other members comments/responses. If you are having a problem with my participating on the site, I suggest you contact the PTB's and discuss it with them, maybe they will make new rules limiting members ability to make comments in a discussion they are interested in. By the way, I like using Barnes Bullets. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Sorry, but because of the timing (right after I posted) I thought that your comments were directed at me, so I apologize for the misunderstanding. | |||
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That is okay, no apology necessary. On internet forums it happens all the time someone makes a comment one or two other people respond and comments and their meanings get disjointed. I also did not pay close attention to your mentioning that you used Swift Factory ammo, that was my mistake. If a person is satisfied with the performance they are getting out of the bullets/ammunition they are using, that is all that really matters. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Alf, This 375 bullet was used in a twist that was too slow to stabilize the bullet. The owner sold the rifle because he had trouble with other bullets as well. The incident was reported to me in 2005 and the rifling angle was measured at 5 degrees which is way too little. If GSC drive band bullets are used in the correct twist, the bullets will expand to a double caliber mushroom from impacts as low as 1600fps.  | |||
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Did a little math: If the angle is 5 degrees, the twist is 13.5", not good. For a 12" twist the angle should be 5.62 degrees. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I was watching a video about a Japanese hunter using a short-barreled .308 and Barnes 3-Shock X Tipped bullets to take a long shot on a Sika deer. It's a very interesting video since he shows how to field-dress the deer, and at the end he shows his hand-loads with the Barnes bullets and the reasons why he uses it for long shots. Also, he has a short review of the Elmax knife he used to field dress the deer. Anyway, you can tell that the guy is very particular about the ammo he uses. The bulled passed though the deer, but it was pretty much a bang-flop shot even at that distance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...nue=13&v=HQf9Fw8M0K8 | |||
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