I have used Barnes bullets almost exclusively since the early 1990's in 6mm thru .416 cal. I have taken 50 + animals and recovered 1 TSX bullet. It came out of a big Saskatchewan whitetail taken at about 250 yds. The bullet broke a front shoulder (deer was quartering towards me) blended part of the lungs went through the paunch and ended up just under the hide on the opposite side ham. The bullet looked just like one from an advertisement and it still weighed 129 grs. All other shots have been pass throughs and I really don't remember any animal going more than 50 yds. Most go 3 or 4 ft.....straight down. I have seen a variety of reasons why people miss a shot. Some sight in their rifle with ammo they used last year but never tried what they are using this year. Some ammo shoots to a very different point of impact. I've seen people shoot from a rest in a tree stand and rest their barrel on that rest rather than the forarm. That will change your POI. Most simply do not practice enough, add a little buck fever to that and we have a miss .I have shot through a pretty big elk with a 7mm STW and 140 gr TTSX bullets. He went maybe 3 steps and fell over.

We usually shoot heart lung, but have done the withers or shoulders.

quote:

Originally posted by TASK1:
My apologies if this has been discussed at length before?

I write this post because I honestly don’t know the answer and would like to hear from those with first-hand, game on the ground experience. From reading hundreds of posters who’ve used Barnes bullets, it appears the majority favor the TSX and TTSX. Many with their strongest recommendation. But there are others who don’t and cite their disappointments as well. Me? I’m just trying to get a better handle on whether they can be trusted to EXPAND. Penetration is not the issue or the question. From what I’ve gathered, their reputation for penetration has already been well established. Likewise for accuracy…mostly high marks.

My experience has been very limited…2 whitetail deer, approximately 140 lbs, distance 90 and 150 yards. 7 Rem Mag handload, 140 gr TTSX. Both pass-through, both deer lost with no blood trail. Rifle is very accurate as was the <moa load. Broadside shots were made from a stand, solid hold, crosshairs tucked behind the elbow. That’s where both bullets went. Both deer exited and vanished with no signs of a hit.

I’d like to try the TTSX in a few other cartridges but, based on the above, have reservations.

Lastly, please don’t remind me that no bullet is perfect and can fail. True. But I’m not the only one voicing “lack of expansion” issues and why I’m asking…before I write these bullets off entirely. I would greatly appreciate any “first hand experiences” you’d like to share.

I hate the things and will never buy another. The remaining rounds I have will be shot at the range only.

We shot them out of a 30-06 and a 270 Winchester. Consistently, we had little to no expansion. I tired of no blood trails.

I had seen my youngest son shoot a nice buck with his 30-06. I saw the impact. I went to the spot and saw the tracks. No blood. I walked into the woods. I found the deer quickly but not a drop of blood. Strange I thought.

I shot a buck. I felt certain I had hit it. I went to look. No blood. I was about to give up. My buddy who fancies himself as a tracker walked into the swamp and found the buck laying there shot perfectly with no blood until a couple of feet before he died. That got my attention. It should have left a big trail.

This happened over and over. The final straw was a hog that I shot. He was no more than 60 yards. I had a good rest. Boom. The hog took off. I was pissed. I was watching the hog run and over 300 yards away I saw him fall. WTF? I climbed down. No blood trail. I walked to the dead hog. It was a good shot. At that point, I decided I had enough of these . I was done.

I switched and have not had another problem since.

Others love them. Good for you. I am happy for you. It will be a cold day in hell before I hunt with them again.

For those who had bad experiences with the TSX and TTSX. Were they handloads or factory ammo? All mine have been handloads, 30 cal, and every one of them performed perfectly.

Factory

As I pointed out above, the mono/solid/unibody/one-brass-sorta-material bullets do not expand like a typical lead core bullet. Instead they peel open. That is a significant difference. If they don't open easily/fast enough then they can be make with a plastic tip in the nose to expedite opening/peeling. The TSX has no tip insert but the TTSX does.

Here are two videos showing the difference between a mono-metal Barnes TSX bullet and a Hornady lead core SST.

You will not be shooting game this close. But the difference is dramatic. Even at high velocity the opening of TSX pales in comparison the expansion of the SST. California mandates lead free bullets. The tipped TTSX would be a better choice than the TSX if you want a bullet to "expand" (peel). One problem with both the TTSX and TSX is the material that peels back can break off at high velocity. Traditional bullets perform well over a much wider range of velocities.

Note: there is a typo in this video saying the bullet is a gsx. The author corrected it in Youtube stating that it is indeed a Barnes TSX bullet.




This is the same experiment with a Hornady 130gr SST bullet.

They should do the same test on an elk sized animal.

Many people have reported the TSX will "pencil" through game, including elk.

TASK1, I used Barnes X, TSX, and now TTSX bullets exclusively since around '91 or '92, all in the same rifle. My first kill, an elk going almost straight away (I know.... unethical, not sporting, ect, but I wanted the elk). The bullet entered just to the left of vent, crushed the pelvis, traveled through a couple feet of soggy Wyo. grass, punched thru the diaphram, the left lung, exited in the left foreleg pit, re-entered the upper leg, thru the leg muscle, stopping just under the offside foreleg hide. That would be, full length penetration of an elk with three hide penetrations!!!This was the old X Bullet, which is now much improved. I got full expansion, broke off one petal, retaining 95% of its original weight. I taken animals from a fox, coyote, antelope, deer, elk, and moose. If one ever fails me, I "may" consider something else! Until then, I'll stay with the X Bullets. memtb

As with any bullet and any load, factory or handload, everyone's mileage will vary. That will never change! You don't like Barnes bullets, Do Not Use Them!!!!!

Really simple concept. No one that does not like Barnes bullets, mind will be changed! No one that likes Barnes Bullets, mind will be changed!!!!
,
In my opinion, and I may not have had the experience some of you have, but since 1996 I have used Barnes bullets on a variety of game animals, and have NEVER had a problem.

Don't like them, Don't use them and move on to something you like better, but do not expect EVERYONE to believe as you do!!!!!

I have been using them for twenty years and have had great results EVERY TIME!

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Many people have reported the TSX will "pencil" through game, including elk.

It's hard to even believe that based on what I have personally experienced and what the majority of TSX and TTSX users report. I think that is mainly an old complaint from early Barnes X bullets, though a TSX--like any hollow point--can get tissue in the hollow point that will prevent expansion. Certainly the TSX and TTSX do not blow up deer sized animals and the wound channel is smaller in diameter, but they reliably expand and penetrate, causing lots of internal damage and rapid death. Every animal I have field dressed after a TSX or TTSX body shot has had a lot of internal damage and an all but one had an exit hole. I trust no other bullet more.......

Now I have had a 180 gain, 30 cal Sierra Gameking pencil through an animal, but Gamekings have a very narrow performance envelope. The next 180 Gameking lost so much weight it couldn't even get through a small Texas whitetail. Both deer required tracking jobs. I have only had to track one animal 20 yds when using a TSX/TTSX.

I once shot a medium sized hog with a 168 TSX at 200 yds from a 30-06 that according to the three guys watching me shoot turned away as I fired. That made a nice broadside shot into a corner to corner through the full stomach. The TSX completely penetrated and stopped the hog from running off. The next shot was a head shot--the pig turned into the bullet--and that was that. Chances are good a SST wouldn't have done the job.

HOWEVER, I wonder if it has more to do with factory loads vs handloads and using too heavy a TSX or TTSX. My 30-06 168 TSX loads chronoed 2950, factory Federal ammo with the 165 TTSX chronoed 2800. In my 300 WSM the 168 TTSX chronos 3000 and works well to at least 435 yds. I think lighter for caliber TSX and TTSXs are best, especially for deer sized game.

For me, the TTSX is the ultimate. The only real question is on broadside shots where no bones are hit, yet I personally haven't had an issue with broadside shots. Of corse, you can always shoot through the shoulder, wasting very little eat and ensuring an anchor. You also have the option of corner-to-corner shots and lengthwise shots. Other controlled expansion bullets do that too, though none as well as the TTSX.

Now the most spectacular performance I have ever seen was from a 300 grain X bullet from a 416 Rem that had an MV of 2800 fps. They were small hogs 60 yds away. Nether I nor the guide saw the second one standing perpendicular to the one broadside to me. The bullet did not expand on the first hog. That pig crawled off 20 yds and died. The bullet went through the second pig lengthwise making a 4" wound channel all the way through. I guess that is what you get when you use a moose bullet on a pig......

quote:

Originally posted by TASK1:
My apologies if this has been discussed at length before?

I write this post because I honestly don’t know the answer and would like to hear from those with first-hand, game on the ground experience. From reading hundreds of posters who’ve used Barnes bullets, it appears the majority favor the TSX and TTSX. Many with their strongest recommendation. But there are others who don’t and cite their disappointments as well. Me? I’m just trying to get a better handle on whether they can be trusted to EXPAND. Penetration is not the issue or the question. From what I’ve gathered, their reputation for penetration has already been well established. Likewise for accuracy…mostly high marks.

My experience has been very limited…2 whitetail deer, approximately 140 lbs, distance 90 and 150 yards. 7 Rem Mag handload, 140 gr TTSX. Both pass-through, both deer lost with no blood trail. Rifle is very accurate as was the <moa load. Broadside shots were made from a stand, solid hold, crosshairs tucked behind the elbow. That’s where both bullets went. Both deer exited and vanished with no signs of a hit.

I’d like to try the TTSX in a few other cartridges but, based on the above, have reservations.

Lastly, please don’t remind me that no bullet is perfect and can fail. True. But I’m not the only one voicing “lack of expansion” issues and why I’m asking…before I write these bullets off entirely. I would greatly appreciate any “first hand experiences” you’d like to share.

Let me put it very simply.

If you hit your deer in a vital spot, they will die.

Regardless of whether the bullet has expanded, or not.

I have been using copper made bullets like the Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets.

I have recovered literally hundreds of them from all sorts of game animals.

Some have expanded so much that all the petals disappeared.

Some have not expanded at all.

And of course a lot more we have never recovered, as they passed all the way through an animal.

We have had several people hunting who claimed to have hit the animal.

But, if we could not find any blood, or a dead animal, then it is considered as a miss.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

We have had several people hunting who claimed to have hit the animal.

But, if we could not find any blood, or a dead animal, then it is considered as a miss.

This was the issue. Yes, any bullet will kill if it hits the right spot. The issue of penetrating or passing through and leaving a small hole is one of rapid demise, blood trail, and follow up. That is a concern many have expressed with regards to bullets that "pencil" through.

I never said they were bad bullets but some here seem to have taken it that way. Nevertheless, their performance is very different from performance of conventional bullets. The story above of the bullet that went "full length penetration of an elk with three hide penetrations!!!" and the statement "I got full expansion, broke off one petal, retaining 95% of its original weight" after such a trip only help illustrate it. If he had shot that elk broadside the bullet would have exited with tremendous energy remaining and ended up in parts unknown We would expect a conventional bullet to perform very differently, expending it's energy more quickly in a shorter passage of elk flesh, resulting in a larger diameter wound "channel". Of course if you are looking for long, deep penetration, especially through some hard stuff, then I can see why they would appeal to you.

California leaves hunters few options when it comes to bullet selection. Lead-free bullets with tips to facilitate opening are probably the best choice.

Does anyone really worry about bullet performance if the situation is a "Bang/Flop" Dead Right There case???????

How many on here understand the concept, that there is a spot on a White tail, under the spine and over the lungs, on a standing animal that a bullet, regardless of its brand or construction, or an arrow can pass thru that will not kill the animal, and in fact the animal will recover from.

Then let's all use FMJ bullets.

I had used TSX (130 gr .270 Win and 180 gr .300 Win) since they first came out exclusively 'til last August when for shits-n-grins I tried out GS Customs on a Dall sheep.

I've only recovered 2. One was just beneath the far side hide on a 279 yd elk and the other in the rear ham of a 220# whitetail I shot in the brisket....stem to stern. They were both textbook open petals.

Didn't recover any others on mule deer shot at 259 & 318 yds, elk at 220 yd, nilgai at 183 yds, red stag at 310 yds, tahr, grizzly, brown bear, etc etc etc. Curiously, they all died despite the apparent "pencil" through. But I am a crack shot and aim for the meat between the ribs.

Anecdotally I just envision the petals acting as a propeller and these monometals just slicing through the carcass. Actually, they just don't break apart. Shrapnel is for AAA and piss poor shots...

In all seriousness, bullet construction does not stop an animal in its tracks. Shot placement does, irrespective of distance.

The GS Custom also went through at 350 yds.

PS IIRC, every Hornaday Interlok I've used has failed miserably with core-cup separation- recovered pieces of jackets, portions of bullets, etc in every (dead) deer......

quote:

I never said they were bad bullets but some here seem to have taken it that way.

Gren,

I didn't take it that way. My point was more that a bullet that does a lot of damage on deer sized game--like the SST--is much more limited in the kind of shots you can take, especially on larger animals. I prefer a bullet that expands less and penetrates more as it is more forgiving and more reliable in less than perfect hunting situations.

When I hunted whitetails in Texas from a stand/blind, there was almost always enough time to wait for that perfect broadside shot. The Blacktail bucks here in Oregon are much more wary and larger, and I like to have a bullet that will get to the vitals for whatever shot is presented for the three seconds a mature Blacktail buck will hang around if you are within 200 yds.

Back in the day when I was still guiding for buffalo down here in Aus I bought a couple of cases, yes cases not boxes, of the extremely expensive Federal Premiums in .375 which where loaded with the 300gn TSX's as loaner ammo to go with our loaner rifles for clients.

Over a period of a decade or so that particular load, used in two separate rifles, accounted for well in excess of 60 buffalo bulls a few dozen Wild Oxen (feral cattle bulls) as well as numerous wild boar many approaching and exceeding the 100kg mark.

Never did we have a failure, in-fact that particular load, in my opinion elevated the performance of the .375's well in to the .416 category.

A good friend of mine who is STILL guiding on buff is STILL using the same loads but with the 270gn TSX and he is just as sold on them as I am.

Now as a recreational hunter/shooter all of my rifles from 7mm and on up are loaded with TSX's except for my .500 MDM which is well stoked with CEB Raptors.

I am very surprised to read about individual's failures with the TSX's.

Prior to this I personally thought they were bomb proof.

Maybe a couple of points that I should note;
# I rarely shoot beyond 200yds
# I ALWAYS shoot for the shoulder bone and never the lungs.

I believe the mono's do better at high velocity and perform as advertised when they strike solid material (bone) to open them up ????

quote:

# I ALWAYS shoot for the shoulder bone and never the lungs.

Just my personal opinion, but I firmly believe if more hunters would do that there would be a lot fewer lost animals or long tracking jobs.

I hear folks say they are worried about losing meat, but most critters really don't have all that much meat on their shoulders. I would rather lose part or all of one shoulder than the whole critter.

quote:

If you hit your deer in a vital spot, they will die.

Can not say it any better.

I have tracked several hundreds of game animals all those perfect lung shots that traveled over a 100 yards. When I recovered the animals were not perfect lung shots.

quote:

Then let's all use FMJ bullets.

How do all those critters shot with FMJs or solid lead bullets that do not expand die.

I would have no trouble using FMJs.

quote:

Originally posted by INTJ:
My approach has always been to shoot behind the shoulder with frangible bullets and to shoot on the shoulder with tougher bullets. The argument for tougher bullets like the TTSX is you get okay performance behind the shoulder and great performance on the shoulder. With a frangible bullet you don't have the on-the-shoulder option and lengthwise shots are iffy. Seems like you get the most flexibility out of a tougher bullet.......

This is the way it's done. I try to hit bone with the TTSX. I've shot a few truckloads of whitetails with the 7x57 and 140's. I had to shoot one twice, and that is the only one that had tracking involved. He ran by me at about 30 yards, I hit him through the front leg/brisket, left him alone about 45 minutes, walked up and shot him as he lay down. I've also shot a good amount of larger game as well with the same results. I think you do need to change your shooting spot, they aren't ballistic tips.

I agree with the others. I can't imagine how you came to the conclusion that you had pass throughs without finding any blood or the animal. I would think you missed?

I have had the opportunity to shoot quiet a few whitetails out of stands in the last 5-6 years. Between 4-9 deer in a weekend and a lot of coyotes too out of the same stands.

All done with a 140 TSX .277 and most with a 120TTSX .264. I like the TTSX for slower cartridges as I think it helps with expansion.

Anyway for the first year or two I pulled every shot just behind the shoulder. Got tired of occasionally needing to pull them out of the woods for 100-200 yards. Now I just shoot them through the shoulder so they only go 20-40 yards.

Anyway, I have never lost one yet. Everyone of them bleed like stuck hogs and often lung chunks are hanging in the grass/brush behind where the animal stood.

I just can't imagine no blood anywhere after being hit at probably 3100ish FPS?

As far as TSX pencil right through an animal. Yes I can absolutely see that happening on say longer shots with lower speeds close to 2000ish. Thats why almost always if it is not a magnum I use the TTSX.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

As far as TSX pencil right through an animal. Yes I can absolutely see that happening on say longer shots with lower speeds close to 2000ish. Thats why almost always if it is not a magnum I use the TTSX.

The TSX did just that, pencil, at high velocity and close proximity - see the video above. He is shooting a .270 and if he was two or three times the distance from that deer, as in a tree stand or hide, the results would surely have been the same. If the animal wasn't already dead it would have been dead after the shot. Still, the bullet didn't expand the way you would expect a bullet of conventional construction to expand.

Yes, for the reasons above I consider the TTSX the better bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

As far as TSX pencil right through an animal. Yes I can absolutely see that happening on say longer shots with lower speeds close to 2000ish. Thats why almost always if it is not a magnum I use the TTSX.

The TSX did just that, pencil, at high velocity and close proximity - see the video above. He is shooting a .270 and if he was two or three times the distance from that deer, as in a tree stand or hide, the results would surely have been the same. If the animal wasn't already dead it would have been dead after the shot. Still, the bullet didn't expand the way you would expect a bullet of conventional construction to expand.

Yes, for the reasons above I consider the TTSX the better bullet.

I don't doubt the video. But what is a GSX bullet and how fast? All I know is they work for me and have not lost an animal with them. And no I dont use them exclusively. I use Woodleighs, CEB's, Noslers, and Swifts as well.

300 Win Mag. 168 and 180 TSX. 30 plus African Game.
6.5x57R 120 TTSX 40ish+ deer. 10+ coyotes
300 H&H 180 TSX 3-4 Elk
7RM 160 TSX 10+ cow elk
270 140 TSX 9 Deer (Only used it one weekend)

And I'm probably missing more.

Is all I am saying is if it did pencil through. I still think there will be blood. If he indeed did punch through the lungs the deer would be dead within a couple hundred yards.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

I don't doubt the video. But what is a GSX bullet and how fast?

As mentioned when I posted the video it contains a typo. It was not a gsx bullet. The bullet was a TSX from a .270. The correction was posted with the video on YouTube. And, if you listen carefully and can get through the think Scottish accents, you can also hear a gentleman say it is a TSX.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

I don't doubt the video. But what is a GSX bullet and how fast?

As mentioned when I posted the video it contains a typo. It was not a gsx bullet. The bullet was a TSX from a .270. The correction was posted with the video on YouTube. And, if you listen carefully and can get through the think Scottish accents, you can also hear a gentleman say it is a TSX.

Gotcha, still would like to know the fps.

quote:

As mentioned when I posted the video it contains a typo. It was not a gsx bullet. The bullet was a TSX from a .270. The correction was posted with the video on YouTube. And, if you listen carefully and can get through the think Scottish accents, you can also hear a gentleman say it is a TSX.

Shooting dead animals proves one thing how the bullet perform on dead animals.

Live animals are different.

The only Barnes bullets that I've ever recovered. Three 300 grain Barnes TSX loaded to a muzzle velocity of 2500 fps.

The first one was up the tailpipe of Cape Buffalo. It was found in the left lung after penetrating a full paunch and the diaphragm. The second from a Gemsbok, it hit a branch and then entered the brisket sideways. The third one was a straight on shot on a bushbuck, broke it's neck and about 6 vertebrae and was found under the skin of the left ham. The buffalo was a followup shot at 100 yards, the gemsbok was hit at 150 yards and the bushbuck was shot at about 75 yards.

Sitka Black Tail Deer, Elk x 2, Caribou, wild pig, Black Bear and no failures. Longest run was about 30 yards. Shortest, straight line from standing to the ground. No animals required 2 shots and none got away. Longest shot was elk at 260+ yards. Elk this year was about 180 yards and it went the 30 yards after being hit with a downhill shot. (a little high) Shortest- about 40 yards on a pig. 9.3x62 and 270 Weatherby. I used a mix of TSX and TTSX bullets.

No, they do not typically make a bloody mess. No fantastic mushrooms but they do possess great weight retention. I do think of them as a propeller once they are in an animal cutting as they spin. Always have an exit wound.

I know some brown bear guides here in Alaska who use these bullets exclusively when they could shoot anything they want. They back up their clients and they swear by them.

Matt

fmj's produce much smaller, narrower wound channels which is why every state game dept. that I am aware of outlaw their use on big game. the object is not only to kill the game animal but do it quick enough that you can find it and the animals suffering is held to a bare minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Then let's all use FMJ bullets.

How do all those critters shot with FMJs or solid lead bullets that do not expand die.

I would have no trouble using FMJs.

the object is to kill the animal quick enough that you can find it. Animals shot with fmj's take a long time to die unless it is a cns shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
As with any bullet and any load, factory or handload, everyone's mileage will vary. That will never change! You don't like Barnes bullets, Do Not Use Them!!!!!

Really simple concept. No one that does not like Barnes bullets, mind will be changed! No one that likes Barnes Bullets, mind will be changed!!!!
,
In my opinion, and I may not have had the experience some of you have, but since 1996 I have used Barnes bullets on a variety of game animals, and have NEVER had a problem.

Don't like them, Don't use them and move on to something you like better, but do not expect EVERYONE to believe as you do!!!!!

I have been using them for twenty years and have had great results EVERY TIME!

^^^^This,
Zeke

quote:

fmj's produce much smaller, narrower wound channels which is why every state game dept. that I am aware of outlaw their use on big game

More likely a political agenda In Wis, they didn't out law FMJs for big game hunting till the 90's.

Right after they tried to outlaw military type of ammunition.

Then all of a sudden the rules read you couldn't use it for hunting.

Anti's are sneaky and un trust worthy.

As I stated before you can use cast bullets in most all states and most of them do not expand.

Just as with caliber bans a misguided attempt to force some ones convictions onto others.

Glad to see several picked out the hypocrisy of "no" to solids, but "yes" to cast, balls and other relative solids projectiles. To be fair about what we call "solids" this site is full of pictures of "expanded" solids. We call it "bullet failure" usually but it begs the question, is not a solid an expanding bullet? Of course they are. Drive them fast enough against tough enough targets and they indeed "expand." I have necroposied enough solid killed animals to know that the can and do create plenty of damage to kill well, even the ones that did not expand. I have hunted whitetail with 433 grain Flat point Hard cast .458 bullets for the last couple years and on a whitetail, they are a solid I assure you. However; Also shot a small doe dead on in the chest and pre-field dressed her at the bullets exit point in her flank. Shot through shoulders you can eat up to the Hole as Elmer used to say. Darned sure dead though.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

fmj's produce much smaller, narrower wound channels which is why every state game dept. that I am aware of outlaw their use on big game

More likely a political agenda In Wis, they didn't out law FMJs for big game hunting till the 90's.

Right after they tried to outlaw military type of ammunition.

Then all of a sudden the rules read you couldn't use it for hunting.

Anti's are sneaky and un trust worthy.

As I stated before you can use cast bullets in most all states and most of them do not expand.

Just as with caliber bans a misguided attempt to force some ones convictions onto others.

I can't figure out why I can hunt deer with a 36 grain varmint grenade from my 223 but I can't use a 500 grain solid from my 458 Win Mag.

If you’ve been around as long as I have…and many of you have…then you’ve heard instances of just about every bullet failing at one time or another. So I don't believe it's fair to judge anyone in the thread who posted his/her field results. I started this this thread, not to complain, but to report what I believe I witnessed, and ask about your results with these bullets. Your responses have been tremendously informative and helpful.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

fmj's produce much smaller, narrower wound channels which is why every state game dept. that I am aware of outlaw their use on big game

More likely a political agenda In Wis, they didn't out law FMJs for big game hunting till the 90's.

Right after they tried to outlaw military type of ammunition.

Then all of a sudden the rules read you couldn't use it for hunting.

Anti's are sneaky and un trust worthy.

As I stated before you can use cast bullets in most all states and most of them do not expand.

Just as with caliber bans a misguided attempt to force some ones convictions onto others.

I can't figure out why I can hunt deer with a 36 grain varmint grenade from my 223 but I can't use a 500 grain solid from my 458 Win Mag.

Just as with caliber bans a misguided attempt to force some ones convictions onto others.

quote:

If you’ve been around as long as I have…and many of you have…then you’ve heard instances of just about every bullet failing at one time or another. So I don't believe it's fair to judge anyone in the thread who posted his/her field results. I started this this thread, not to complain, but to report what I believe I witnessed, and ask about your results with these bullets. Your responses have been tremendously informative and helpful.

The concept is, what constitutes a bullet failure to the individual???

Various beliefs on what is or is not bullet failure.

A complete pass thru, leaving a clear blood trail! Bullet should have expended all of its energy in the animal! Flip side being many folks want a blood trail.

Animal did not DRT at the shot! Unless the CNS is hit, none of them will fall dead at the shot.

Animal ran too far after the shot, that is not a problem with the bullet but the animal that was shot, it did not know it was supposed to be DRT!

As Crazyhorse alluded...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and so is bullet failure...if you're gnawing on your game meat then the bullet DIDN'T fail no matter WHAT it did.

Those Barnes bullets are about as close to the ideal combination between a FMJ full pass through and a minimally expanding bullet with deep penetration...you get the best parts...you can make some of the people happy some of the time and some of the people unhappy some of the time but NOT all of the people happy all of the time...and some people are just NEVER happy anytime.

I'm just way to cheap to spend that kind of money on one bullet when I have a ton of cup'n'core bullets and FMJ'S that have been working just fine for half a century.

Luck