Just wondering why some seem agitated that the new 338F is available.....it seems 358Win owners do so to gain something measurable in field performance i.e. bang flops over a 308 on large game.

I would think that if a 358 is a step up in killing power, so would the 338F, in fact I believe it without doubt, just as I think of how often 358 users get 'bang flops' with 200gr loads, how a 338F would likely do just the same, and reach a little further, and penetrate more, all else equal. I have on hand 200 gr 35 cal Rems, and 338 Hornady 200gr, and the 338 looks MUCH sleeker, but I admit, the frontal area differential sure looks impressive going to 35 cal.

The 225 sierra's in 35cal are about the same length as the 200 338's, so that would be a 'conversion if you will' to keep case capacity similar in like OAL loads in the 2 ctgs. A 210 partition would do well in the 338F but not sure if 225's would eat valuable powder space, I would have to see data as to if the 338F will push a 225gr about like the 358Win does a 250. I think I hear 2400 with 250s in top loads in BLR's and 2500 with 225's in 358's.

What do you all know about 225's in the 338F? Speer published data shows 2440 in 24", thinking 2400 should be fine in 20-22" hunting rifle but not sure if these loads are 'top loads' or if handloaders will better them within safe limits.

I would want to see downrange comparison, but running some numbers tonight on a ballistics calculator, it looks like the 338F/225 and a 358/250 is about identical for all practical purposes comparing them at 300 and 400 yds in terms of drop and energy.

SO, I don't think you really 'give up' anything using a 338F vs a 358 except recoil. If you want to sling heavy bullets on say elk/bear/moose, I feel the 338 F will 'get r done' just as well as the 358 has proven.

At the velocities used, it is likely say a 225 Hornady/Speer would do well in a 338F and a partition would not give much advantage due to less speed on impact, penetration should be fantastic. I myself will be trying a 338F, but admit, nothing bad to say about 358's, except not enough factory loads nor bolt rifles.

There are those of us that feel the 338F is a solution to a problem that dosen't exist, which is not uncommon with many of the new cartridges, i.e., 450 marlin, super whiz bang mags, etc. However, if it floats ones boat, they should get one. Different strokes for different folks. Lou

The 338F has a use but in my eyes is limited.

Very few big game hunters would choose it over a 338-06 or 338 Mag.

It's use is for those that so love their Savage M-99 that they want to find a little harsher way to say hello to an elk. The use of short actions for big game hunting simply isn't that great with the exception of deer hunters that like very short carbines for the brush hunting. These folks are adequately served by cartridges such as 260 Rem, 7-08 Rem and 308 Win.

Federal apparantly believes in it and they invested in the tooling to make it....so have at it if you like it.

Well the 338/08 Federal will easily equal the old 33 Winchester cartridge...

and in the words of Parker Ackley in his book, " Handbook for Shooters and Reloader" ( page 462) on the 33 Winchester..." the 33 Winchester was a pwerful cartridge which has given a good account of itself on all types of North American game"....

Nothing fancy, but it was more than competent enough for the job in Ackley's opinion... and while A LOT of us have a lot of experience.. I give Ackley credit for having alot more than we all enjoy...

He listed reloads from 1630 fps to 2430 fps....with a 200 grain FN bullet...

for anything I would want to accomplish within 200 to 250 yards.. a 200 grain SP, at most of the velocities mentioned above, would certainly get the job done...and granted I am not taking one grizzly or Alaskan brown bear hunting.....so don't bring those up...

I see a lot more practicality in a 338/08, than I do the marketing hype in an Ultra Mag, or a Short Mag....

and I prefer a 338 bore over a 35 bore the exact same way, some prefer a 7mm bore over a 30 caliber bore...its all academic... but either will get the job done.. so follow what ever suites your desires...

cheers
seafire

We can compare these cartridges all day long, but its awfully hard to beat a properly loaded 308 Win.

bigger diameter kills better and higher velocity kills farther.

Pick your poison.
Choose whatever floats your boat.

I choose the 338 Federal over the 308 and 358.
Hits harder than the 308 and better ballistics than the 358.

All will do the job.

358W,coz it's been there done that .

The 338Fed sounds to me like a near perfect all round pig gun.

Could also be pressed in service on most all other N American and European game.

Built into a light handy rifle, or even better, build one on a short action stutzen.

I personally feel that the 338F's only niche was for recoil sensitive hunters such as young hunters and women that like to hunt the bigger animals. A good many young hunters and beginers are only effective at the shorter ranges and when they hunt larger game this could be a quite effective round for them IMO. From the numbers it seems the 338F can pack quite a punch at mid range as well as be quite recoil friendly when compared to the 338WM and similar big game carts.

Reloader

I think that .338 federal, would be a prety good cartridge in a fast handeling bolt gun.
personaly If I were going after game bigger than Deer, I would look real hard at the 185 grain Barnes tripple shock. If you get 2700 Fps You would have a very good load. The 225 grainers would be decent too but I think if you want to go that heavy you would be better served to have a bigger case, AKA .338,06 or .338 win.
A 210 grain partrition would be good too !
...tj3006

Here is a comparison of 225 Gr Nosler Accubond bullets in 338 and 35 calibers:

338 Cal 225gr Spitzer Accubond Ballistics:
B.C. .550
S.D. .281
OAL: 1.450

35 Cal 225gr Spitzer Accubond Part #50712 New 2007
B.C. .423
S.D. .251
OAL. 1.375

As can be seen from the above,the 338 is longer, sleeker, and will maintain its velocity better. It will also penetrate deeper and expand adequately compared to the same weight bullet in .35 caliber.

Hodgdon's 2006 Annual Manual lists the top velocities for this bullet weight in the 338-06 and 35 Whelen as given below:

Bullet: 225 Gr. HDY SP Dia: .338 Col: 3.340
H414 69.0 gr 2811 fps @ 51,7000 CUP

Bullet: 225 Gr. SEI SBT Dia: .358 Col: 3.175
Varget 56.o gr 2588 fps @ 46,400 CUP

A 225 bullet weight isn't given for the 35 Remington Magnum but Hodgdon lists a 220 Gr Spear FP @:
H4895 56.0 gr 2651 fps @ 51,200 CUP.

As can be seen from the above the 338 has a significant velocity advantage in addition to the ballistic coefficient and sectional density advantages the sleeker 338 bullets show over the .35s, which should result in more energy at the muzzle and down range, with flatter trajectories over all reasonable ranges. I doubt that the 35's slightly greater frontal area will negate those significant advantages in the 338 Federal...Rusty.

bigger bullet!

lets the blood out and the air in...

Great feedback on both sides, interesting about the 185x comment, having used once an 85x in 243 on a hog with 100% retention, I would imagine a 185x would retain as much or more than say a 210 partition in a 338 bore after impact.....that said I normally prefer heavier bullets for better SD and BC...but the x bullet is a different animal so it cannot be compared for like bullet weights.

As to the 'bigger bullet' that is what I do like about the 338 over smaller bores for the type of hunting I do, mostly deer, mostly in or near brush, where you don't want to have to worry about recovery should they go anywhere, w/o having a good blood trail, if any, or a short one if so.

How much better a 35 can/may/will kill over a 338 is anyone's guess. I think the larger bullets can transmit shock over a wider area -just my opinion' but I did compare above the 225's as some people look at the 338F as a 210 and under bullet wt. round, and the 358 as up thru 250's...wanted to put them on equal footing.

I have no doubt small bores with penetrating bullets kill well when thru vitals, but I was very impressed in how my buddy dropped his deer with my 350, now his, and how my 338/06 dropped some deer for me. I could not tell much difference. I think the 338F will do just what the larger 338's have been doing, just within 300yds vs 400-500.

I will continue using my small bores and place shots well, but in areas where brush is really heavy, and esp. on evening hunts, I want to 'hedge' the shot with the most chance of a bang flop. I don't feel a 'short mag' is needed for what I do, or any 'mag' ctg, but I do think the added weight and frontal area will give me an edge in performance.

As good as the 308 and 30-06 is, my gut tells me with similar bullets and shot placement at normal hunting ranges, that game hit with a 338 bullet will likely travel less and my goal is just that.........I do agree it is a niche ctg for say short levers and bolts, and a good many hunters using it will be after deer.....as likely more deer are taken annually then larger game.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 338-06, but only Weatherby has offered them to my knowledge. I never read accuracy with them approached how my Hart barreled gun shot. If Ruger and others chambered the 338-06 in the future, and the public gave them a try, they would be impressed I believe.....I was. To me it is what you want if having to shoot much beyond 300 yds, though I have only had to kill once further than that-400, and attempted one likely much further on a bedded deer w/o range finder in heavy wind with a 270-no connect! Heavier caliber would not have changed the outcome on that shot. A rangefinder was in order.

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Lou:
There are those of us that feel the 338F is a solution to a problem that dosen't exist, which is not uncommon with many of the new cartridges, i.e., 450 marlin, super whiz bang mags, etc. Lou

Roger that!

Got a 308
Got a 358
Why a 338?

But one man's trash is another man's treasure.
For me the 338 is trash.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Hook:
Here is a comparison of 225 Gr Nosler Accubond bullets in 338 and 35 calibers:

338 Cal 225gr Spitzer Accubond Ballistics:
B.C. .550
S.D. .281
OAL: 1.450

35 Cal 225gr Spitzer Accubond Part #50712 New 2007
B.C. .423
S.D. .251
OAL. 1.375

As can be seen from the above,the 338 is longer, sleeker, and will maintain its velocity better. It will also penetrate deeper and expand adequately compared to the same weight bullet in .35 caliber.

Hodgdon's 2006 Annual Manual lists the top velocities for this bullet weight in the 338-06 and 35 Whelen as given below:

Bullet: 225 Gr. HDY SP Dia: .338 Col: 3.340
H414 69.0 gr 2811 fps @ 51,7000 CUP

Bullet: 225 Gr. SEI SBT Dia: .358 Col: 3.175
Varget 56.o gr 2588 fps @ 46,400 CUP

A 225 bullet weight isn't given for the 35 Remington Magnum but Hodgdon lists a 220 Gr Spear FP @:
H4895 56.0 gr 2651 fps @ 51,200 CUP.

As can be seen from the above the 338 has a significant velocity advantage in addition to the ballistic coefficient and sectional density advantages the sleeker 338 bullets show over the .35s, which should result in more energy at the muzzle and down range, with flatter trajectories over all reasonable ranges. I doubt that the 35's slightly greater frontal area will negate those significant advantages in the 338 Federal...Rusty.

If you're going to compare 2 bullets ensure they have the same SD NOT weight. Weight proves nothing between different diameters.

Point well made on SD, but at the end of the day, if you run #'s on a 358/250 Partition- .279 SD and .446 BC

and a 338/225 partition= .281 SD and a .454 BC

which is better? I say a 338/225 is on paper EQUAL to the 358/250 so if anyone wants the higher bullet weight, well that is the American way, Mo is better!

But, myself, I like efficiency. To me the 338F is a better big game cartridge than a 308. Don't believe many varmint hunters use 308.

In my mind a 260/708 are lesser recoiling effective deer rounds, while a 338F is better than a 308, and in my logic equal of the 358 on larger game.

Do I suggest anyone go sell or trade a 358 for a 338F?
No, but I own neither a 308, nor a 358, so a 338F is my choice right not, due to firearm availability. If/when factories produce more 358 rifles, or 338-06, than I will consider them also. Still may consider a Ruger 358, but if pressed to just one, I will get a 338F.

Really, in the field, BOTH 33 and 35's are very effective and the difference is more academic.

I just cannot see why people trash the concept, esp. when not considering all the stats, as there is not 50lbs of difference out to 400 yds if that. Nor an inch of drop, this is with partitions, a standard for other large game bullets. With accubonds, etc, the difference may lean a good bit towards 33's.

I can tell anyone this, without reservation, when the smoke clears, game hit with the new 338F is gonna die with shots that are placed equal to 358, and hit the ground just about as fast, if not as fast.

I wonder why someone above has a 358 if their 308 is 'good enough' ...perhaps to shoot pistol bullets I guess.

Oh, if the 338 is trash, then a 308 is worse trash my friend!

Give me a freakin break. I guess if you were standing at the backstops, you would duck 358 bullets, but let 338 bullets just bounce right off of you!

This cracks me up.

The manufacturers have to keep develping new stuff to produce more sales. All the old stuff kills just as good as the new stuff. New stuff has more sex appeal and fuels forums. Neat to shoot new stuff and show off at the range. Any better than what you have already? No, not really. Just something new to play with.

POP, I don't currently race a horse in this race, but does't the basic laws on internal ballistics indicate that for a given bullet weight the larger caliber shall accelerate faster,i.e., the 358 "should" be the faster 225 grain, barrel length and powder charge etc being equal? One of the things which I feel is being missed in this argument is the fact that there are many calibers and bullet weights which all serve the same basic purposes we share. This being the case, to compare the 338 Fed to the 358 Win is also by omission failing to consider the 243 and the 260, or the 7/08 vs the 308. In all the prior cases I think the majority would agree that the larger of the pairs was superior... But not i the 338/358 intanglement???

There is a point where yes a 708 can shoot a like bullet weight faster than a 260, but the 260 higher BC/SD offset it, and it actually will overtake the 7mm at longer distances-when it matters, unless you use very heavy 7mm bullets where then your velocity is lower and trajectory less flat at normal hunting ranges.

I think what we have here 308 Sako is a point of diminishing returns, a 20-22" 338 bore is going to provide all the 'expansion ratio' needed to make most use of the bullet weights in the 338 or 358 version.

A 358 with HEAVY loads might do 2500 with a 225, the books show 2440 in the 338F, I would venture that the BC is higher and a 338F will be the same or faster at 200 yds and further.

Heck, just build a .473/08 to make a straight wall if you think that will give you the most speed for bullet weight. The 'larger bore' is faster has a 'diminished return' for a given case capacity. I simply see VERY little gain in a 358 vs a 338, therefore put them about equal.

I have never slammed a 358, as it is a very good round, I do not question that, but rather people who tout the 338F as trash.

Yes, I do like shooting something different to suit MY tastes/hunting style, NOT to impress the public, else I might shoot the latest geewhiz short MAGuNum!

Funny how we get all wound up in what kills better and hits harder and all that tech stuff. I have killed lots of deer with a 225 Win, 243 Win , 6mm Rem and 7mm08 and never had to shoot one twice with any of them. Need long range power you say. My longest deer kill was 400 yds with a 243. Second is 350 yds with the 7mm08. Today all that I use is the 7mm08 to hunt with and why? It just feels good in my hands I guess and shoots 100s to 160s in real tight groups. It is just easy to get along with. When you punch the lungs out it doesn't matter what did it or how fast really. They die.

Again, the 338F is a solution; however, I am not sure I know the problem?

I have been reading about all of them this evening and they all have unique assets depending on the story teller. All of them will kill deer and other stuff just fine. May as well throw the 358 Norma Magnum in the discussion.

My longest was about 400, with a 6mm BR, a 'short 243' daylight was still good, so was shot placement, ran all of 20 yds.

Now MANY deer where I hunt come out right at dusk, THAT is the time I want a little extra. NOT foot lbs of energy, but momentum is welcome.

The solution for me is to minimize any extra step a deer might take from where I hit it, to avoid an hour or two of tracking like I had to help my hunting buddy's guest who hit a deer fairly well with a 30-06 last year at dusk in the dark woods and blood was HARD to find, same thing has happened with 243 my buddy used.

I have not had many 'problems' myself but for instance hit a deer high chest last year, spent 2 hours looking, no blood, no deer, hit with 7BR. Next day, buzzards found it 60 yds from hit. In field, half area had water 6-12" deep, deer had fallen into a dry ditch just 5-10 yds from where we were circling with a truck and 4 wheeler. That was a bad night trying to sleep. Buddy lost confidence in my shooting ability and my gun. The gun did it's job, but a bang flop would have saved us both from a headache. The shot was at dusk, with a 120 gr bullet, that went all thru at 150 yds. Gun was 'powerful enough' and killed well, like they all will, but a bang flop, or a HELL of a blood trail would have been welcome. This year, 40 yds, so I head shot the doe with the 6BR I toted. I am not into 'magnum's' but I welcome more mass in a bullet under certain conditions.

Will any deer much less larger animal survive a 308? Doubtful. Will a 338F put them down sooner? I think so. Do you need it? No. Do I want that benefit, or the possibility for that benefit? Absolutely. At the same time I want to eat up to the bullet hole as much as possible, and not give myself whiplash when I light one off. Can you get that? Perhaps not.

Not a solution to a 'problem' as much as it is a hedge against a headache which has happened to me a few times, say less than 10% of shots, but it has happened to most who have much experience and who wants that headache. In the mornings I have little fear as I usually would have lots of time with good daylight (better than a flashlight-not to mention I am color blind and have a hard time seeing the color of blood against the color of fall foliage that has hit the ground) if a tracking job becomes necessary. Mind you I do my best to place shots well, and usually do, but its a 'peace of mind' and 'confidence' thing.

I have a friend who swears by his 308 and 30-06, and that is fine, I just find 30's boring myself, being middle of the road, not a bad place for a one gun big game hunter. I have found by experience to see a measurable affect on game dropping from say a 6.5-7mm, going to 338 gives a profound increase in 'drop em quick' effect. The military knew the 45 did much better than a 38, but since, everyone in law enforcement -many rather, use a 40 for similar performance with less recoil perhaps. If a 45 killed that much better, wouldn't all the police use it instead of a 'inadequate 40 cal?' Was the 40 'needed?' no, but there were perceived advantages/reasons why 40's are commonplace.

Shootability being perhaps one.

The thing about the 338 federal is that you will get extra velocity if you buy factory loads, as they all use High Energy powder.

Speer has come out with loading data and with a 200 grain soft point will get around 2550fps. The factory loads will get around 100-150fps more. So, providing the factory loads shoot in your rifle and you can afford them you are getting two kinds of loads.

Maybe one thing to do might be to work up a deer load with a 200 grain bullet and use a 210g partition factory load for bigger stuff.

Until more load data comes out, by experience shooters and not just some of the more 'conservative' data, I am compelled to believe the powders available will put it very close if not at a minimum equal to published specs. Remember, a 358 gets a 225 at 2500 in top loads, and I have no reason to doubt a 338F can meet spec speeds with 210's without using
'special high energy' powders. There are always a few powders that shine in every cartridge balancing velocity and accuracy. I don't think the 338F is going to come up short of factory speeds if you roll your own. Just my .02.

I get 2960 in a 708 with 139's and that is with a 21" barrel and 4064/varget. I don't think any 'high energy' powder will do any better.

Anyone share similar experience, or otherwise I would be interested in hearing it.

It is a paradox to me, that a nice little round like .338-08 i s badmouthed, whilst a round like .300RUM is cherished. I would say That 98% of all users would shoot a lot better with an easy shooting cartridge than any RUM. Note, that is not 98% of this forum - that is a huge difference.

It is no less usefull than any other caliber based on the .308 Win, and earns its place just like the others.

I am a handgun hunter with a 338 JDJ barrel. The 338 JDJ No 2 is based on the 444 Marlin case, necked down to 338 caliber with one pass through the sizing die. It has a fairly sharp shoulder and minimum body taper.

I also have a 6.5 JDJ and a 6.5 Mini-Dreadnaught. The MD is based on the 220 Swift case given a 60 degree shoulder with minimum body taper. It has about the same powder capacity as the 338 JDJ No 2. I was much impressed with the power of 338 bullets over the 6.5s in the cavities they left in a clay and cobble stone bank.

On one of my early range sessions with the 338, after we had had a lot of rain, I moved over to the first bench and put a 210 Gr Nosler Partition into a fresh target so I could examine the penetration into the red clay and cobble stone sediment bank that is the back drop for the firing line on the 100 yard range.

I stuck my hand into the hole until my arm was getting muddy above my elbow. I wasn't able to reach the end of the cavity. I opened my fist and I couldn't touch the sides of the cavity the 338 210 NP created. This was out of a 14 inch barreled Contender handgun at 100 yards.

This case actually holds more powder than a 338 Federal does but has to work at lower pressures because of the weaker break action the Contender utilizes, so I am quite confident that the 338 Federal will do exactly what 6.5Br wants it to do for him - make a bigger hole and get an easier to see blood trail.

On the expansion ratio thing, in a perfect world the larger bore would always start out faster. As 6.5Br stated, higher BC bullets will eventually catch up. Review the load data I presented from Hodgdon's Manual. The higher BC bullets have more bearing surface, creating more resistance, allowing for more progressive powders to be used that keep pushing the bullet/ piston up the barrel longer, resulting in higher muzzle velocities for the 338-06 as compared to the 35 Whelen with the identical bullet weights sighted.

I took the fastest load published in that 2000 and 6 manual for each cartridge at the 225 gr bullet weight. If I picked a bullet in 338 the caliber that comes closest to the 225 grain .35 caliber BC numbers, it would have to be the 200 Gr 338 Accubond and the velocity differential would be even greater, - 2856 fps with 59.5 gr of BL-c(2) @ 64,300 PSI as opposed to 2588 fps for the 35 Whelen. In the real world, bigger bullet diameters do not always result in faster muzzle velocities.

In looking this up, I noticed that I misquoted the velocity on the 225 338-06 load. It should have read:

H414 60.0 Gr. 2675 fps @ 59,900 PSI

as compared with the 35 Whelen 225 Gr load of 2588 fps for the same bullet weight. I mistakenly quoted the 338 Winchester Magnum load, as the powder charge of 69.0 grains and the CUP pressure rating of 51,700 should indicate. I am surprised that none of the 35 fans out there caught my mistake and didn't nail me to the wall for making it. I owe you all an apology and you have it forth with. I will try to do better in the future, Rusty.

for bigger than 30 cal projectiles i want a case longer than 51 w/ 57mm being the absolute minimum. for cartriges that are sub 30 cal i want the words weatherby in the title.

The way I see it, if you place the bullet, and it is within the 'velocity window' for expansion, than higher velocity just helps give more range by less drop to contend with.....but I don't know how much better it kills. Moderate speed, controlled expansion with penetration will get it done.

A 357 mag 158 HP at 1200 in a handgun has killed many deer within 50 yds with lung hits, so I think a 200 gr 338 bullet at 1900 minimum impact would do it assuming some expansion.

http://www.gunsandhunting.com/bulletshootout.html

nice article on bullet performance

quote:

Originally posted by SlowHand:
The thing about the 338 federal is that you will get extra velocity if you buy factory loads, as they all use High Energy powder.

Speer has come out with loading data and with a 200 grain soft point will get around 2550fps. The factory loads will get around 100-150fps more. So, providing the factory loads shoot in your rifle and you can afford them you are getting two kinds of loads.

Maybe one thing to do might be to work up a deer load with a 200 grain bullet and use a 210g partition factory load for bigger stuff.

I was looking over some of the load data in some reload books at the 308 with 190, and 200 grain bullets... and then the 358 with 200, 220 and 250 grain bullets...

These cartridges actually seem to get some respectable velocities out of powders that are good in the 223...like RL 7, 3031, 4198, H 322...

I am thinking RL 10 might also be a good powder for top velocities in these cases and the 338 Federal...

I know playing with the 8 x 57, using powders common to the 223s, that I load a lot for ( the 8mm Mauser looks like a big 223 case to me)... I was actually getting some pretty obscene velocities using powders like RL 7, IMR 4198 and 170 grain and 175 grain bullets...

Maybe the 338/08 will also spawn a few more 338 bore bullets, that are below 200 grains in weight...( didn't Nosler can the 180 grain B Tip in 338 bore?)....

and I never tried any of Barnes's X bullets in 160 grain, 175 grain etc...but the 338/08 seems like a good fit for those bullets...

as a handloader, I could care less what the factory offers....but I see potential in the case for velocity and the reputation for accuracy in any 308 based case is already proven...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:


I was looking over some of the load data in some reload books at the 308 with 190, and 200 grain bullets... and then the 358 with 200, 220 and 250 grain bullets...

These cartridges actually seem to get some respectable velocities out of powders that are good in the 223...like RL 7, 3031, 4198, H 322...

I am thinking RL 10 might also be a good powder for top velocities in these cases and the 338 Federal...

...

Yeah, brother, keep on preachin' Good observations!!!...I'm going at it right now with my .358 Win and RL10x...beats crushing Varget into the case and watching the bullet sloooowly inch its way out...

For me, it's less the actual cartridge than it is the "platform" I wish to shoot. I prefer a short action bolt rifle...I won't go into why, I just do.
I used a Pre64 model 70 in .338 mag for many years to shoot elk. Looking to replace the M70 with something lighter and shorter I happened upon the little SAKO L579. It still needed to be an "elk rifle" so I made it into a .358.
I almost went with the wildcat .338x08 to take advantage of the great spectrum of .338 bullet types out there.. but Im a cheap bastid and didn't want to have to buy the expencive dies. Nor did I want to have a rifle to hand down to a non-reloading son and have no factory ammo available for it.
Either cartridge makes a powerful short action package with reasonable recoil and more range than most folks give them credit for.
Game is killed by disrupting tissue. Big bullets destroy more tissue than little bullets. Velocity is a useful tool to flatten trajectory and expand bullets - it can also destroy bullets and adds signifant unpleasant recoil.
As long as one of these two fine little cartridges is offered in the gun Im interested in, Im a happy guy.
I also pay little heed to SD/BC and lot'sa attention to bullet construction for the game Im hunting. JMHO

HighSlot,
I'd be interested in your loads using 10x in the 358Win as I'm waiting on some to be delivered. Out of interest why do you use Varget in the 358Win? Mine gets along just fine with AR2207 (H4198). But I admit I havent put any of my loads over a Chrony yet either. I'd also like to try Benchmark in the 358Win (we call it BM2) plus the slightly faster BM1 (not on the US market) as the grain size is noticeably smaller on both powders compared to Varget (AR2208)
Cheers...
Con

I love all three of theses calibers & would like to have custom rifles built for each to fulfill a specialized hunting situation. I really want a .358 built on a Savage 99 action & a .338 Fed. as a lightweight mountain rifle. With good bullets and proper shot placement, I doubt that one is more deadly than the other, but a vivid imagination can create a perfect situation for almost any caliber.

Dave

quote:

.338 Fed. as a lightweight mountain rifle.

Dave,

Now that is an idea, I hadn't really thought of it that way.

Who wants to tote an ultralightweight cutsom rifle chambered in 300WM, 338WM, or 338-06? Sure maybe there's a few hunters that like to get the snot knocked out of them when they squeeze the trigger but, 99% of us prefer a rifle that we can comfortably do bench work-ups w/ and not have to deal w/ a eardrum splitting Muzzle break.

I believe a super light weight custom chambered in 338F and topped w/ a light weight compact Leupie would be a dream to carry around the mountains and have plenty of punch on elk sized critters at reasonable ranges. I'm not a big fan of really light rifles but, I can definitely see the merit in the above rifle for an avid hunter that covers a good bit of ground.

Reloader

There's no doubt that the .338F is a great little round. There's a nitch for it w/ younger/smaller and/or female hunters that might hunt large animals or the potential of large animals.

I lived in BC for several years and my wife's family is there. She loves her .257 IMP, but its just a little light for moose, especially when there is the possability of Grizzly.

Some years ago I decided to equip her w/ the 8mm Mauser. 180-200 gr. slugs at 2700-2500 (respectively). More in every way than a .308; comparable to the '06 w/ a larger frontal diameter and less recoil.

Where I doing it now, I might opt for the .338F. At least on paper it shows a little more punch, but the 8mm works fine.

It may be tough to sell because the nitch is so specialized. I agree that it is a solution to a non-existant problem, but how many cartridges today are in the same catagory?

Did the .260 and 7-08 do something that couldn't be handled by the .243 or .308? Did the .280 accomplish more than the .270? Why all the hoopla about the WSMs? Even more so, the WSSMs?

I say the more cartridges the better! Diversity is the spice of life. Whatever blows your skirt up, get that one and have fun!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
The 338F has a use but in my eyes is limited.

Very few big game hunters would choose it over a 338-06 or 338 Mag.

Good point. I own a .338-06 and love it. Ammo is available at the local gun shop (Wby w/210g Noslers) or on the internet.

Although the 338 Win is a great cartridge, it kicks too much for many. The 338-06 is nice alternative to the Win version. Ammo availability for non-reloaders is abundant.

The advantage with the 338 Fed is that it's a short action. For many that's a big selling point. Ammo should be readily avaialble for non-reloaders.

It's nice to have options.

quote:

Originally posted by Tex21:
We can compare these cartridges all day long, but its awfully hard to beat a properly loaded 308 Win.

sure is the truth... all the way to a .356 bullet

One more thought: IMO, the .338 Fed should be a great all around close range (< 150 yard) cartridge for all NA game outside of the big bears.

I'm sure it could take a big brownie but I would choose something else. Just my .02.

As the owner of a 308 and a 356 the only real disadvantage the 338 Fed starts with is bullet availabilty. Look at bullets in the 358 range for handloaders, leaving out molds for cast, and 308 diameters. I predict that we will soon here of 338 Fed owners complaining that bullets designed for 338 Win Mag didn't open up at 350 yards with their gun. This may open the door for more mfg's to come out with loads and bullets but I think it will take a while. I consider the new federal as a 300 yd cartridge as I do it's dad and uncle the 308 & 358. Gianni.