does the 35 cal rifle use 357 pistol bullets very well. thinking of a wildcat or posibly a whelen but want some light loads too

I use 158 grain gas check home cast lead pistol bullets .358" for reduced loads in my Whelen. But I don't shoot them farther than 50 yards as they're not very aerodynamic.

The two that I have do not.I, however, believe that it is related to fast twist and deep throat more than a .001" difference in diameter. roger

what twist are you guys using if I do a wildcat i can adjust twist to make it work

crusher...

are you going to wildcat the new 375 ruger??? i hope so...

p.s. bartsche has it right.

quote:

what twist are you guys using if I do a wildcat i can adjust twist to make it work

Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen is 1:16 twist. Mine is 21.5" barrel, magnaported.

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Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

what twist are you guys using if I do a wildcat i can adjust twist to make it work

Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen is 1:16 twist. Mine is 21.5" barrel, magnaported.

The 1:16" twist of the whelen is a choice that some of us question and think it should be faster, but as it is it SEEMS to work.

It is more twist than pistol bullets need.

as for the original question, yes, .357 pistol bullets work well as "plinking" loads with the right propellant charge behind them.

You might want to specifically ask B17G about that as he seems to be the resident expert on using BlueDot in rifle cartridges...

BTW, onefunzr2, it's nice to meet someone else from PA!

AllanD

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The 1:16" twist of the whelen is a choice that some of us question and think it should be faster, but as it is it SEEMS to work.

It is more twist than pistol bullets need.

Both my .357 magnum revolver and my .357 rifle have 1-16 twist if that means anything.

I sure wouldn't mess up a .35 whelen by trying to give it a twist to shoot pistol bullets in it.

While the 1-16 "seems" to work it's just not enough for the 270 and 280 grain bullets you may wish to shoot someday. A 14 or 12 inch twist is what many folks recommend. If that then shoots pistol bullets well for you great. Just do first things first. Make the rifle right.

Here we go again. When Howe and Whelen worked on the .35 Whelen, they used a 1 in 12" twist. Their thoughts were the rifle was for heavy game and bullets of 250 to 300 grains would be the norm. The fact that the rifle would also shoot 200 gr. and some pistol bullets well was just icing on the cake.
It is beyond me why Remington and Ruger decided to use a 1 in 16" twist for the Whelen and why Ruger used the 1 in 16" twist for the .358 Win. as well, when Winchester specified a 1 in 12" twist.
My thoughts are, if you want to shoot lighter loads with pistol type bullets for plinking and practice or small game, go with a 200 gr. cast bullet instead. RCBS makes a very nice 200 gr. flat nosed bullet that at pistol speeds would make a nice small game and plinker. Just load it up to about 1200-1500 FPS to find the sweet spot and have fun.
Paul B.

The whelen was designed for the use of 275 to 300 gr bullets, the Poor Man's H&H. Use a 1-12 and you can shoot the heavies and pistol bullets. Use a slow load for the pistol bullets. It works for mine. But I get more fun out of the Savage 99 in 358 WCF. It is also a 1-12 and shoots up to 280 gr bullets well. It uses the 148 gr HBWC in a slow small game load fine at 50 or less.

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BTW, onefunzr2, it's nice to meet someone else from PA!

AllanD

Haven't you noticed? This place is filthy with PA residents. Some even had a meet up when Cabelas opened in Hamburg.

Perhaps the Whelen was designed for 275-300gr bullets but I doubt many handload those heavyweights nowadays. Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate and IMR don't list recipes for them.

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Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

BTW, onefunzr2, it's nice to meet someone else from PA!

AllanD

Haven't you noticed? This place is filthy with PA residents. Some even had a meet up when Cabelas opened in Hamburg.

Perhaps the Whelen was designed for 275-300gr bullets but I doubt many handload those heavyweights nowadays. Hodgdon, Alliant, Accurate and IMR don't list recipes for them.

I have a copy of Townsend Whelen's article from the September 1923 issue of the American Rifleman titled, "American Heavy Caliber Rifles fo Large Game" which has some of the preliminary load data for the cartridge. Bullet weights are 200 and 250 grains. C.E. "Ed" Harris did an article on the .35 Whelen where he stated that it was developed to use 250 to 300 gr. bullets and that the fact that it also worked with 200 gr. bullets was just a bonus.
Probably the main reason the powder companies don't give data for the heavyweights any more is it's damned hard finding any heavy weight bullets these days. I have a few Hornady 275 gr. round nose bullets left (35 to be exact). I'm saving those in case I ever get to go to Alaska for a big bear. (They were discontinued in 1966-67.) Top velocity according to the First Edition Hornady manual was 2300 FPS. Accrding to one source, a 300 gr. bullet could be pushed to about 2200 FPS. In this high velocity crazy gun world we live in today, those numbers don't sound too impressive, but they worked way back then when people hunted rather than "sniped" their game.
The .35 caliber just does notg wet much respect from the average American shooter, other than the pissant .35 Remington. Those that try and use both the .358 Win. and .35 Whelen know what a good thing they have.
Paul B.

Don't overlook the very inexpensive Remington 180 grain HP for the .357 Max.

My 1-14" twist previously 35 whelen ackley now 350 Rigby does well with pistol bullets at 1200-1500fps, they print 1" groups at 50 yds and are heaps of fun to shoot. I've shot about 1/2 dozent different designs from 150 to 200 gr. The only bullet that leaded terribly was a commercial hard cast bullet that was undersize, had a bevel base and a poor lube.

I haven't had a chance to try pistol bullets through my 350 Rem mag.

12 to 15 gr of unique works well in the whelen.

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Originally posted by CRUSHER:
does the 35 cal rifle use 357 pistol bullets very well. thinking of a wildcat or posibly a whelen but want some light loads too

Yes ... most do. I've used reduced loads using the Rem 158gr in my 358Win (1:14") with excellent results, likewise a friend has used them in his 35Whelen (1:16"). Both rifles will hold MOA with the plinking loads if you do your part. I'm hoping to try the Sierra 158gr FMJ in the 358Win as I'd like something that will feed from the magazine ... and the flat-nosed stuff is hard to get to feed. I've also corresponded with another gent that has experimented with store-bought cast pistol projectiles in 0.358", 0.357" and 0.356" in his 358Win (1:12"). Largest size was most accurate ... but the smallest was acceptable and damn cheap as he was using surplus 9mm pistol projectiles.
If building a .35 wildcat I'd look at the 1:14" as a minimum and be MUCH MUCH happier with a 1:12". I was very pleasantly surprised to find the new Ruger 350RemMag has 1:12" twist, only manufacturer using the correct twist for the .35s!
Cheers...
Con

thanks for the input guys

I'll second the recomendation of Ruger's 350 rem mag. My first handload grouped 5/8", first time I've had a new rifle shoot sub moa with my first load. Still needs some trigger work, but other then that it's about a perfect hunting rifle.

i've done 35s in 1x10, 1x12, 1x16... 10 and 12 seem to give better accuracy.

crusher, you want to borrow a 358 win to kick around with?

Paul H,
How's the feeding on the Ruger 350RemMag? Mine came back from warranty work still refusing to feed RN projectiles. 15 seconds work on the feed rail myself seemed to fix it. Of the first 10 Ruger's that came into Australia, I know of 6 that have had the same problem.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

Don't know about feeding rn's as I haven't tried any yet? Actually, I did try some 280 gr cast rn, and as I recall they fed fine.

I gotta get back out to the range with it, will be headed out hunting in a few weeks, and have spent too little time shooting.

Paul H,
I know the feeling! Had the Ruger shooting sub-MOA with the 250gr RN Woodleigh ... then found out they wouldn't feed! Sent it off to be repaired ... came back still not feeding. Fixed it and I now have to get back to putting the scope back on and resighting. But first I need to reload some ammunition!
Damn I love this hobby!
Cheers...
Con

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with store-bought cast pistol projectiles in 0.358", 0.357" and 0.356" in his 358Win (1:12"). Largest size was most accurate ... but the smallest was acceptable and damn cheap as he was using surplus 9mm pistol projectiles.

That's really pushing things, as 9mm uses .355" bullets. I'd fear they would rattle down the barrel.