Gentlemen,

After all the helpful tips on my backpacking food thread I was hoping to once again pick your brains.

What would you take in a first aid kit for a two week expedition in the back of beyond?

I have a small kit for cuts and grazes that I take stalking, when I remember of course, but the only thing I have really used is the occasional plaster or paracetamol. I have some first aid training but not much experience, it must be said.

As it is this kit contains:

Sticking plaster - various
Small pair scissors
Hydrocortisone cream
Paracetamol
Ibuprofen
Microporous tape
Tube bandage
1" and 2" gauze bandage.

What would the panel think as appropriate to carry in the pack for a two week excursion to say Karelia or B.C. or somewhere like that?

Do I need to go to the trouble of getting authorised for things like antibiotics or strong analgesics and stuff like that?

What about flying and travelling with prescription drugs that are carried speculatively?

Many thanks,

Get a copy of "Wilderness Medicine" by William Forgey, M.D. Pub: ICS Books

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ghubert:

Do I need to go to the trouble of getting authorised for things like antibiotics or strong analgesics and stuff like that?

QUOTE]

Before I flew to LA for a hunt in Wyoming 25 years ago, I got my doctor to write a letter saying I needed to carry codeine. The main purpose for it was in case I got the squirts. I don't recall any trouble with Customs.

A decent pair of tweezers and a pair of 5" hemostats for slivers. I've gotten slivers where one type will work so not the other so carry both, plus they are handy for other stuff too. A few Q-tip swabs in case you get something in your eye they are the best for getting it out.

Call me an alarmist, but I would add a Quik Clot Combat Gauze packet. If you have a major problem the 2inch gauze square is not going to cut it. Easy to find on E-Bay for less than $20.

Like Mark suggested - a decent pair of tweezers.

For the sheets..... I carry activated charcoal. Activated charcoal can help with mild digestive upsets, stop diarrhea, viral and bacterial infections. Activated Charcoal adsorbs toxins, renders them inert and carries them through the digestive tract. Charcoal is not metabolized or digested by the human body. It is a valuable aid in the treatment of accidental poisonings.

But be aware that activated charcoal can neutralize some perscription drugs. Talk to your doctor about the use of activated charcoal.

I don't know what altitude you will be at..... but if over 2,400 meters take some DIAMOX (Acetazolamide) along. This is for MILD altitude sickness.

Coca leaves (chewed or brewed into tea) are actually better for altitude sickness, but I don't know about their legality in Canada.

If you are going to be climbing to higher altitudes, avoid alcohol the day before.

I have 2 different size kits put together by www.wildernessmedical.com for extended trips. I find them to be of excellent quality. Wonderful people to work with.

D'Arcy,

Which kit of theirs do you recommend?

I have a Grasshopper and the Humbug. The larger has had some extras included, to the point that it looks like a tick. Both models include very good medical instructions as well as good equipment. I think the money I spent gave me at least, excellent value

Thanks. They do look like good kits.

Looking at their prices, I feel like some sting relief already.

Yes, it's all good stuff and I'll probably perish without some part of it; but if we carry every bit of safety kit assorted boffins say we need, on top of the 'must-have' hunting gear, then back strain and falling off the hill increase as dangers.

Stuff for blisters.

This is the most common problem for me when hiking in the mountains. The blister kit in my pack gets used every trip.

Moleskin
Molefoam (if you can find it, much thicker than moleskin)
3M micropore tape
Folding scissors
Some people like the gel packs for blisters, I never cared for them.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have 2 different size kits put together by www.wildernessmedical.com for extended trips. I find them to be of excellent quality. Wonderful people to work with.

I wish they would list what the kits contained.

quote:

Originally posted by bobmn:
Get a copy of "Wilderness Medicine" by William Forgey, M.D. Pub: ICS Books

That looks to be very interesting Bob, thank you.

I have taken a basic first aid course, the sort one get's "volunteered" for at the office, is this that sort of level or a bit more advanced?

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ghubert:

Do I need to go to the trouble of getting authorised for things like antibiotics or strong analgesics and stuff like that?

QUOTE]

Before I flew to LA for a hunt in Wyoming 25 years ago, I got my doctor to write a letter saying I needed to carry codeine. The main purpose for it was in case I got the squirts. I don't recall any trouble with Customs.

I could get proscribed painkillers fairly easily, and have a corker of a scar on my back to attest to why I would need to doubting customs but I was thinking more in terms of antibiotics and possibly other things I might not know about at the moment.

It's good to know that codeine is dual use, for pain and erm, other uses...

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:
A decent pair of tweezers and a pair of 5" hemostats for slivers. I've gotten slivers where one type will work so not the other so carry both, plus they are handy for other stuff too. A few Q-tip swabs in case you get something in your eye they are the best for getting it out.

Thanks Mark, when you say "slivers" I am assuming you mean what we would call "splinters" or bit's wood embedded in you somewhere?

I did a search on hemostats, when you say both types I take it you mean straight and curved?

Good idea on the Q-tips.

quote:

Originally posted by JIm Yackley:
Call me an alarmist, but I would add a Quik Clot Combat Gauze packet. If you have a major problem the 2inch gauze square is not going to cut it. Easy to find on E-Bay for less than $20.

Not at all, tops stuff Jim.

From what I can see it sounds very good for big bleed.

Where would one find good instructions on how to use it?

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
Like Mark suggested - a decent pair of tweezers.

For the sheets..... I carry activated charcoal. Activated charcoal can help with mild digestive upsets, stop diarrhea, viral and bacterial infections. Activated Charcoal adsorbs toxins, renders them inert and carries them through the digestive tract. Charcoal is not metabolized or digested by the human body. It is a valuable aid in the treatment of accidental poisonings.

But be aware that activated charcoal can neutralize some perscription drugs. Talk to your doctor about the use of activated charcoal.

I don't know what altitude you will be at..... but if over 2,400 meters take some DIAMOX (Acetazolamide) along. This is for MILD altitude sickness.

Coca leaves (chewed or brewed into tea) are actually better for altitude sickness, but I don't know about their legality in Canada.

If you are going to be climbing to higher altitudes, avoid alcohol the day before.

Thanks D,

I've heard of charcoal as a homoeopathic remedy for various digestive ailments, looks interesting I'll give it a try the next time I'm stricken and see how it does vs the standard treatments.

I won't be at altitude but note your comments. I fear that Coca leaves would be very difficult to lay hands on over here, thought the refined product possibly not so......


A

Ps.

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have 2 different size kits put together by www.wildernessmedical.com for extended trips. I find them to be of excellent quality. Wonderful people to work with.

I wish they would list what the kits contained.

I found this : http://www.wildernessmedical.c...ess_Medical_Kits.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have 2 different size kits put together by www.wildernessmedical.com for extended trips. I find them to be of excellent quality. Wonderful people to work with.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I have a Grasshopper and the Humbug. The larger has had some extras included, to the point that it looks like a tick. Both models include very good medical instructions as well as good equipment. I think the money I spent gave me at least, excellent value

Thanks D'Arcy that looks like good kit.

I also don't mind spending money on good kit but wanted to put together my own just because, really. I take on board your comments about the excellent instructions however, that could be a bit useful for people who are not already medically trained.

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
Stuff for blisters.

This is the most common problem for me when hiking in the mountains. The blister kit in my pack gets used every trip.

Moleskin
Molefoam (if you can find it, much thicker than moleskin)
3M micropore tape
Folding scissors
Some people like the gel packs for blisters, I never cared for them.

No matter how short the trip you'll not get far without a blister kit!

For possible Giardia if you don't boil your water and get gastric upset, get some metronidazole (Flagyl) 500mg, take one three times a day for 5 days.
for infections and possible tick fevers, have doxycycline 500mg, one once daily for 7-10 days or longer.
since we no longer have tincture of merthiolate, I recommend a small bottle of Iodine to paint infected scrapes and blisters.

Thanks a lot Steve, I hope was hoping you might chime in on this one.

I have spoken to my family Chemist who is happy to smooth over the legal and prescriptive side of the thing with my doctor and give me whatever I feel necessary, or rather what experts like yourself tell me is necessary.

I have so far got as the medicaments:

1. Tube of 1% Hydrocortisone cream (Bites and stings)
2. Small can of spray Iodine Link to it here - would the tincture of iodine be better? ( Wound cleansing )
3. One blister pack (12) each of of Aspirin, Celocoxib, Paracetemol and Tramadol (Anti-inflammatory and analgesics appropriate for different levels of inflammation or pain)
4. One course (15) of metronidazole 500mg (Anti-protozoan antibiotic)
5. One course (10) of doxycycline 500mg (Broad spectrum antibiotic)
6. Some sort of antidiarretic, whether Immodium or Charcoal I don't know but will experiment if the (cough) opportunity arises.

Thank you very much for your help this Steve, much appreciated.

Regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:


Thanks Mark, when you say "slivers" I am assuming you mean what we would call "splinters" or bit's wood embedded in you somewhere?

I did a search on hemostats, when you say both types I take it you mean straight and curved?

Good idea on the Q-tips.

Ghubert,

Apologies for sounding so vague, when I said "both" I meant both a pair of tweezers and a pair of hemostats. I like tweezers with pointy tips:

as you can poke around with them to get stuff, and match them with a small pair of hemostats, I like this size:
.
If you have the straight tweezers then you may want to get the curved hemostats but I suspect it does not matter that much as you will make whichever type you have work for what you need.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

2. Small can of spray Iodine Link to it here - would the tincture of iodine be better? ( Wound cleansing )

Amir

Suggest that you consider a small bottle of liquid rather than the spray. In the US it is Betadine (10% aqueous povidone-iodine) instead of iodine tincture. It works as well, is water soluble so it doesn't sting or burn and causes less tissue damage than the tinctures. It has almost replaced tincture of iodine for most uses in US hospitals.

Ghubert: The book I recommended is written by a Doctor who is very experienced in wilderness travel. He understands the limitations imposed by backcountry travel so the items recommended in his medical kits have multiple uses. He also shows how to set a dislocated shoulder by using a water container to apply traction which is just one examble of his grasp of the subject. He really understands the limitations imposed by not being able to call 911 for help.

+1 for Quickclot - or a product called Celox.
The are slightly different but both will stop a severe bleed including an arterial one.
I have used Quickclot ACS+ which is basically a big tea bag full of granular powder. You just stuff it into the hole and apply direct pressure. After maybe 3 mins you should have controlled the bleed. Keep the bag on the wound and patch up.

A couple of sanitary napkins from the wifes stash are good for smaller cuts, a triangular bandage. Also a tampon with plastic applicator for deep puncture wounds-especailly suggested for bowhunters who may stumble onto a broadhead tipped arrow or quadders who might get speared with a stick. The quick clot sounds like a good idea.

All the rest of the stuff mentioned plus antibiotic ear drops for my ever present ear infections. there are eye/ear drops that might work for both, stuff in the eyes is pretty common. But safety glasses are the best insurance in the back of an open vehicle or quad etc. Some tylenol #3 and aspirin powder that can be taken without water-small insurance for heart attacks and stroke.

If we're canoeing we take a big kit but for backpacking it's just not practical-we choose to be careful instesad of well prepared. You'll be a heck of a lot more careful when you realize you're not well prepared.

By way of qualification / experience: US Army Medical Corpsman, Red Cross First Aid, Fire Dept. First Responder.

First aid skills are more useful than meds and bandages. You can dispense with a lot of the "sickness meds" by understanding and practicing good field sanitation.

Yeah, for sure "Sh*t Happens" . . . but most emergencies can be avoided with some basic safety procedures, around axes, knives, shovels, firearms, archery.

It's entirely possible, probable to go out into the field and return without getting sick or injured. That's the FIRST part of your "first aid."

Tweezers, forceps, a good sharp knife. Some antibiotic/disinfectant swipes, blister treatment (mole skin, adhesive tape), basic bandages -- adhesive strips.

Anything larger by way of a wound and you go to using your clothing -- T-shirts, socks.

These days I think the most essential item in an "Emergency Kit" is a reliable cell-phone -- and some basic understanding of First Aid.

quote:

Originally posted by Rothke:
By way of qualification / experience: US Army Medical Corpsman, Red Cross First Aid, Fire Dept. First Responder.

First aid skills are more useful than meds and bandages. You can dispense with a lot of the "sickness meds" by understanding and practicing good field sanitation.

Yeah, for sure "Sh*t Happens" . . . but most emergencies can be avoided with some basic safety procedures, around axes, knives, shovels, firearms, archery.

It's entirely possible, probable to go out into the field and return without getting sick or injured. That's the FIRST part of your "first aid."

Tweezers, forceps, a good sharp knife. Some antibiotic/disinfectant swipes, blister treatment (mole skin, adhesive tape), basic bandages -- adhesive strips.

Anything larger by way of a wound and you go to using your clothing -- T-shirts, socks.

These days I think the most essential item in an "Emergency Kit" is a reliable cell-phone -- and some basic understanding of First Aid.

Not sure where you live, but most places I haunt, a cell phone is just a poor paper weight. It is possible to go into the field without an incident, but you better not count on it. Granted, illness is less likely, but injury can happen before you know it and you'd better have the means of dealing with it. Using your clothing?

For bad cuts
4-6 butterfly closures are a godsend & takeup less space then 1/2 a credit card.

Pain relief is the most important item after wound dressings.
If you have to get yourself out after controlling blood loss & repairing yourself, managing the pain, serious debilitating pain, is very important to be able to move effectively.
The more remote you are the more you need.
I don't play in the middle ground, just Panadeine for minor stuff & then the strongest stuff I can get my hands on.

The only medical tool I double up on is tweezers.
2pr tweezers & sml forceps.( 5 grams of insurance against dropping & losing the first pair ).
In my small daytrip kit I delete the forceps &
carry 1Pr pointy conventional tweezers & 1 Pr flatnose plier type tweezers.

Small stanley type blade ( double laminated in plastic yourself after sterilising) is much more handy than a small folder or hunting knife
...........no matter how sharp that knife is.
besides which, its in your kit & not elsewhere, nor used for something else before you need it.

don't just have you medical kit on your expedition pack checklist...........check its contents for quantity & condition.

You are your own first response team, & all too often the first response to someone else.
My little wallet sized EDC kit has been used 10 times more for someone else than for myself.

He He ........same deal with my little EDC 1 x AA LED torch & its spare battery in a pill container.