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And a 308 180 grain hot core penetrates about 17" _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Since a bullet strike is an inelastic colision most of the energy is transformed into other forms of energy, so very little energy is every transfered in any bullet strike The ballistic pendelum is a perfect example of this. A 55 grain 22 cal bullet at 3600 fps calculates to more energy than a 45 cal 360 grain bullet at 1400 fps. Shoot each into a ballistics pendelum and measure the arc of the pendelum and you will find that the 360 grain bullet with the least amount of energy caused a greater arc swing than did the slightly higher energy 55 grain bullet. That is because MOMENTUM is transfered in ALL colisions and the 360 grain bullet has more momentum even whith the lessor amount of energy Useing energy in any form to rate lethality is a losing proposition _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Well said, jwp! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Why is someone always wanting to do something that borders on the ridiculous? I think most of them have nothing better to do than yank our chain. Probably has no intention at all of hunting elk with a .45 acp. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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A hiker killed a Grizz in Denali Park in I believe March of last year with a 45 ACP _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I know what you mean; every time I see someone bring FPE into one of these discussions, I have that very thought. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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You and me both...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I see no reason a standard velocity .45 Colt and an equivalent .45 ACP wouldn't work. I've used both to put two holes in animals of appropriate size. I lean toward revolvers to get the most out of .45 ACP cartridges in full moon clips, to prevent their use in unaltered .45 ACP pistols. A 255 grain hard cast bullet can do over 1000 fps in a 6.5 inch barreled .45 ACP revolver. I haven't used more than a 230 grain Hornady full metal jacket flat point at 980 fps in a Kimber 1911 semi-auto with standard spring set. The slide velocity was too high and did not cycle appropriately. Either will penetrate a big pig (250+ pounds) or water buffalo cow (700+ pounds) on a broadside shot. I like a revolver because of the wider variety of bullets that can be used effectively. The Buffalo Bore 255 grain round mentioned would be my choice in a semi-auto, but I would want to have more than just a week to find the right elk. Getting within 50 yards during rifle season would take some great hunting! The original poster did not describe the .45 ACP he had. The discussion would have more focus as well as the advice with this information. Most elk hunters don't come home with the biggest bull out there, making the .45 ACP with appropriate ammunition an option. | |||
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Thanks for your reply. Very good information from someone that has shot a 700 pound cow buffalo. I'd say that proves that it would work, but would take some excellent hunting to make it happen, as you have stated and I agree  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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so what we have here in this thread is several people saying "been there, done that." and several still saying it can't be done. amazing. | |||
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It's mind boggling, isn't it? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Unfortunately, some people still insist on forcing their limitations on others. It is one thing to say, " I can't/won't do ______"; and another to say "______ can't be done". The latter is much easier for most people to say. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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It never ceases to amaze me what little qualifications one must have to possess to become a moderator! One might think basic reading skills would be among them! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Nor me for someone to have nearly 26,000 posts and have any time to actually do anything other than play on the computer. Your turn. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Nearly 26,000 posts and not one of any meaningful information. Dumbfucktitude has reached a level unknown before to mankind. A real legend in his own mind, a douche bag among douche bags, congratulations. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Now let's take a look at what vapodog has offered.   "Essentially it's a put your money where your trigger finger is!" Several photos have been provided where people have. "For folks that say that energy means nothing, I'm wondering why we just don't use the .25 ACP....." IMO anyone who makes a statement like that has no credibility because he canot back his information with facts he has to be sarcastic."Who says I don't hunt with a handgun.....?" Several folks did,and this is what you offered in return "I've owned five .44 Magnum revolvers, one .41 Magnum and a .357 Magnum and am not a newcomer to handgunning or hunting with the same. Said I didn't have much use for one....never said I didn't know how to use one" Still no proof,yet you thought a little quote from a movie personality and maybe what we'd think you were like him?"For those that want to hunt cape buffalo with your 45-70, go at it and have a ball.....it's just one of the ways we scrub the Gene pool!" It has been done for example In the summer of 2002, Vince Lupo of Tampa, Florida successfully completed his quest to take the African Big Six with his Marlin 45-70 lever-gun and Garrett Hammerhead Ammo. Vince's efforts spanned a 13-month period, a remarkably short time given the broken ankle Vince suffered during his safaris. From the 220-pound charging leopard Vince stopped point-blank, to his remarkable SCI Gold Medal white rhino and huge elephant, Vince's safaris have demonstrated an exceptional combination of tenacity and outstanding marksmanship. Vince Lupo is the first to take the African Big Five or Six with the 45-70 lever-gun.And he is not the only one.Again this prooves what most are saying,"choose the RIGHT bullet. Now SGraves155 how can you be so pat on the back when previously you though he was inadequate?"Fantastic moose. Congratulations. Of course, no 45ACP 1911 can fire a 355 gr bullet at 1150fps and get almost 1000FPE." Because previously you had this to say "In Zimbabwe, elk sized critters can only be hunted with cartridges developing over 2000FPE. That might be a good idea for some of the elk hunting states to look at" and "What a magnificent group it must be to be able to hold at naught the regulations devised by the Zim PHs regarding the caliber/energy restrictions for the different game classes. What do those guys know, anyway? A few hundred elephant, buffalo, and wildebeest each and they think they are qualified to make those kind of decisions." Yet the fellow takes a critter twice as large as a elk with less than 1000ftlbs of energy and you pat him on the back,to me that makes you a hypocrite.We are a magnificent group,those of us who go afield every year and according to the uneducated fill or tags,freezers,and later our bellies with the game of animals according to you and vaodog and a few others feel nothing short of a howitzer will cleanly take,[COLOR:RED]for those of you I know,keep at it good buddies,for those of you I don't I salute you,but for those who choose to do nothing but criticize and offer nothing,"GET OFF THE DAMN PORCH ! because you don't belong with the big dogs,not on the porch not in the state my preference is the uneducated not even be on the planet.If you are ignorant that is one thing if you choose to be that says alot. "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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Dang, cottonstalk, tell us how you really feel!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Spot on, Cottonstalk......... _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And with your lack of qualifications it surprises me that he haven't been offered a position of moderator. God knows you spend more time on AR than any of the moderators. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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He has certainly and consistently proven to be exceptionaly clueless, so let's not forget his qualifications. If total and complete dumbfucktitude is a qualification then Vapodog is without peer. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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It just goes to show how out of date you are RMiller, I use 40 grain .22 LRs at 1100 fps in my High Standard Victor. Low velocity .25 ACPs, 50 grains at 800 fps, just try to make up with diameter and weight what they lack in velocity and energy. Be careful of those behind the shoulder shots, they can charge! I may have to ask my wife if I can borrow her Beretta Jetfire and go big game hunting during spring squirrel season. | |||
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Again as I have stated before, it all comes down to having enough penetration and making a decent hole... However I can say that I have seen several people killed with a single 22 short or a single 25 ACP.... In those cases, there was enough penetration... And they did not get to the hospital quick enough... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Now that all the fighting and discussions about rifle calibers is over. A 250 hard cast rn fp going 750 fps [I dont know If I could push it to 800 safely] The pistol is a highly accurized colt gold cup.I have killed elk with a 454 gr arrow doing less than 200 fps. I know the 45 wont have even 1/2 the wound channel than a 1 1/2 inch broad head has. But!!!for all the hand gun hunters out there thank you for the response.Like I said this is a dream of mine.. Just like it's a "dream" for a local to draw an elk tag !!! HA HA.. | |||
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We have on occasion, big bore rifle shooters who like to come over and try to "straighten" us handgun hunters out. They are usually long on opinion, yet very short on experience; and they don't understand physics either. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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From the owner of Beartooth bullets; ________________________________________________ http://shootersforum.com/showt...?p=544958#post544958 For those that have .45's that are ramped properly, our .452"-255gWFNPB bullet is an amazing game harvester in a .45ACP. I load it with WLPP and 7.0g AA#5 with the COL Somewhat shorter than with other bullets simply so that the bearing surface of the forward driving band just clears the lands in the throat of the chamber. These bullets, with their huge frontal area redefine the game harvesting potential of the .45ACP! These bullets have a meplat diameter of .360", and with the above load in a standard Govt configuration 1911 will get about 950 fps. This puts the ACP into the same tier as the old .45 Colt factory loads, albeit with the advantage of a well designed, wide meplat bullet for optimal game performance. ________________________________________________ Looks like 950 FPS is obtainable _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And some of us handgun hunters own and hunt with big bore rifles yet don't assign any magic to them. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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If David Copperfield owned them then one could assign magic to them  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Technically, you are correct.  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Why do people always ask,"is it possible" instead of, "should I", if you have to ask if its possble then the automatic thought should be, if it was ethical and something you should be doing, you wouldn't have ask. Big game animals deserve more than being LIVE TARGETS to experiment on and to die a lingering death when those experiments don't work out. EVERYTHING we do as hunters, reflects on all other hunters. Either do it right or go cheat at golf, where its expected. | |||
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Perhaps you missed this post;
The gentleman has shot them completely through 700 pound buffalo. I can remember a time when the response to a question about hunting with a handgun brought on responses just like yours about a the 45 ACP. We ask in order to learn from others, kinda like why we send our children to school. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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With a 22 lb spring in my Ed Brown Special Forces, I too have taken Veral Smith's LBT 230 gr LFN to about 960 fps with AA5. Legally I can't use it for Elk in Utah as Utah requires 500 FPE @ 100 yds and this combo is not quite there. IIRC, I need about 980 fps to obtain. I could have kept testing, but decided to simply go with my NMBH in 45 Colt. Alan   | |||
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no magic in rifle calibers, my 460 weatherby penetrates forever if good tech bullets are used. soon gonna give a shot to the 405 gr punch bullets and run them through a bit. that rifle works and shoots like gangbusters but to date, i have never shot a buff, bison or waterbuff that i wished i had it, it's a novelty and a rifle i'd use only if a country was too retarded to let me use my 454's. marksmanship and pickin' correct bullets is all it takes. i'd rather have some here backing me up on a dangerous game hunt with their pistol than some ph that's never had a charge with a 505 gibbs or 577 nitro (remember how many ph's talked about how they never had a charge or only had one or two when mark sullivan's vids came out) | |||
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Well said, tradmark! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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X 2,well said big dawg! "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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what a sleeper. invented before the h&h with good bullets an proper placement i suppose you do like york did the germans on a bunch of charging rinocerous, funny they invented the 357 cause they didnt think the 45 was up to the penetration thing, guess i was using the wrong bullets when my 45 bounced off an empty paint can If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
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You bounced a 45 off an empty paint can? What were you throwing a pistol at a paint can for????? Was it a Glock?????? | |||
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+ 1 But the Glock might have broken upon making contact..... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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As I read once, "Nothing says 'pistol-whip' like a N-frame S&W". If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Whitworth: He was right about bullets though.............some heavier bullets give the glock better balance when thrown at attackers. I haven't practiced on GPCAT(Glock Paint Can Action Throwing). Never appealed to me. Though factory support and safety record have been very good...... | |||
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MS Hitman; And there is the simple beauty of the Model 28...... | |||
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