Let's talk recoil.

Many of us here love big-bore revolvers. But, there is a price to pay for the big revolvers we are so fond of. Recoil, and lots of it. I have an affinity for revolvers that can hurt me since the first Model 29 I purchased many years ago. I am still very fond of DA revolvers which all things being equal inflict more pain on the shooter than SA revolvers.

I recently got my .500 Linebaugh SRH 5-shot custom which was built from another pleasant gun of mine, a .454 Casull. I shot it roughly 30 times off the bench yesterday afternoon with full-tilt loads. Keep in mind that it weighs just under 3-lbs. I have a sore hand and forearm today, but it is more or less from the amount of pressure I needed to exert to control it off the bench. After that long, drawn-out and painful process, I shot another new acquisition of mine for the first time, a revolver in .50 Alaskan (another Huntington custom based on a prototype D-Max frame). I was already quite fatigued when I shot it, but all was going well until the eighth round when I let my guard down ever so slightly and it kissed my skull -- the front sigh split a two-inch wide gash that made me bleed like a stuck pig. Ouch. I was warned about giving it all of my undivided attention (MS Hitman and jwp475 have both had the "pleasure" of shooting that monster) as it will make you pay if you don't concentrate. Despite the blood bath, I did finish off the cylinder (I'll be damned if it defeats me...... ......yeah, I'm a little stubborn.).

So, let's hear it.

What is your practical limit?

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate?

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

quote:

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

You've got it now. I don't know why I had it for so long... I could shoot it and hit with it but the amount of concentration and muscle tension required was draining to say the least.

Never let it whack me though....

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

You've got it now. I don't know why I had it for so long... I could shoot it and hit with it but the amount of concentration and muscle tension required was draining to say the least.

Never let it whack me though....

I'll bet you a buck it doesn't happen to me again! I should have started the session off with the big .50 and maybe, just maybe it wouldn't have happened.

I agree DAs kick more than SAs. I started out on M29s too and thought they kicked. Then one day I was invited to try a 44 SBH. I shot it and was puzzled at the recoil. So I asked its owner, are these down loaded handloads. He said no, they were full strength factory just like what I'd been using. I actually had trouble believing it.

Here's where I don't mind admitting I draw the line - 44 magnum with a 240 gr at about Cor-Bon strength which is 1450 fps. The "old" 44 Rem factory loads (I have one box left) from the '70s are stronger still IMO. I don't know the exact ballistics, but they feel at least 1450 and I think stronger, probably pushing 1500. I don't know. But that's about it for me.

I have no problem at all with the current factory 240s in Rem & Win (both 1180 fps), Black Hills (1250) and Hornady (1350). And I shoot the C-B but stop there.

I love hearing about the big ones, but I'll leave those for others. And on the "bloodbaths", I get all that I want from sometimes forgetting everything I should know about getting my eye too close to 30-06 scopes.

Btw on the Model 29 I still have one in a 6 1/2 and used to have another in an 8 3/8. Maybe just imagining things, but I thought the longer gun was more pleasant to shoot with the hotter 240s. I was always more accurate with it.

I agree that factory .44 mag ammo was way hotter than it is today. No comparison.

I don't want to side track from the recoil thread here, but just out of curiousity if anyone knows the fps on those early Rem 44 factory loads, feel free to say so. It'd be interesting to know. It's not printed on the box like on modern ammo.

I load my 500 Linebaugh, a 5 1/2" Bisley, at 1100 fps with the 450 gr WLN from Montana Bullet Works and I am about there with regard to recoil tolerance and consistently accurate bullet placement. I know I am giving nothing away in performance on game either with this relatively mild load, certainly on anything I will ever hunt with it.

My .500 Linebaugh load would probably be comfortable to shoot if the gun weighed more......

The .50 AK on he other hand is a exercise in excess.......

Yeah, my palm is still sore from a few shots off the bench with the little monster. I would not shoot the AK because the Bisley grip is just wrong for my hands.
I feel the .475 is the highest recoil I can handle to get full accuracy from a gun.
When a gun is so violent that a few ounces change in grip pressure affects the POI a LOT, it is no longer worth getting beat up trying to sight it in.
I can feel a slight difference in recoil with a .475 and call it but not when a gun wants to rip the bench legs out of the ground!
That little blaster comes up so fast I think when the boolit is right at the muzzle it gets flipped end over end!
Some fellas can't even shoot a light .357 and get accuracy depending on strength and hands.
If you want to hit or shoot very small groups but like the big calibers, the gun just has to be very heavy. I HAVE shot the Freedom .475 and shot some good groups but the weight is borderline. The BFR is SOOOO much easier.
Strictly from an accuracy standpoint, light guns will not do it no matter how much accuracy is built in. No man can control where the barrel will be when the boolit leaves. Is it any wonder I laugh at those that want a 2" barrel in a big bore? Your range is down to feet instead of yards.
If Marko wanted a scope on the little .500, he could mount a solid steel bar instead and the gun would break it!

It seems we should be taking recoil characteristics rather than just recoil. My FA in 475 Linebaugh recoils quite severely ie. it is something I have to prepare for (mentally), however I am not sure that my head is in danger of being hit (off a bench). Rather it recoils upward, instead of up and back in a semicircle. Could it be that we have effects due to type of rest used, as well as characteristics of the gun/load, method of gripping etc.
I think Marko should provide a video of his head being hit so that we can all analyze what is happening!!!
Peter.

Whitworth, the one round and gun that makes me think twice is my 4 inch S&W 500 Mag with 700 gr. bullets from Ranger Rick and 25 gr. of H 110.

The recoil is brutal in the 4 inch 500 Mag.
Also my BFR in 500 mag with the same loads are a handful.

I will stick to the 440 gr. in my 500 Mags.

I'm very comfortable with a 44 mag. I can comfortably shoot a 454 casull for 20 rounds. The 460 and 500 are above my tolerance level especially with the 'snub' barrels.

I ran just these thru one of those recoil calculators and assuming a 3 lb gun the recoil energy in foot-pounds came to 25 with a 450 gr @ 1100 and only 12 with a 240 gr @ 1450. That's a rough, rough figure because it doesn't include SA or DA, caliber, powder or barrel length and assumes an arbitrary 3 lb gun.

If even half right it's still a big difference. I expected the lighter bullet at greater speed might not be that far from the heavier bullet at slower speed. But, that's apparently not the way it is.

I don't have the fps on some of the big bore loads, so couldn't compare them (but, it's 37 foot lbs for the 440 gr @ 1350).

Fwiw, the recoil foot lb is only 22 for another gun - the 450/.400 Nitro Express - 9.5 lb double rifle. We've got guys here who could probably shoot that one handed..from the hip..

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
It seems we should be taking recoil characteristics rather than just recoil. My FA in 475 Linebaugh recoils quite severely ie. it is something I have to prepare for (mentally), however I am not sure that my head is in danger of being hit (off a bench). Rather it recoils upward, instead of up and back in a semicircle. Could it be that we have effects due to type of rest used, as well as characteristics of the gun/load, method of gripping etc.
I think Marko should provide a video of his head being hit so that we can all analyze what is happening!!!
Peter.

Indeed. With nearly identical loads, my .475 SRH is a hell-of-a-lot more unpleasant off the bench than bfrshooter's .475 BFR. The DA goes straight back and only rises when it can't go back any further.

Now, let's put things into perspective.



This is a .475 Linebaugh (440 grainer at 1,350 fps) parked next to the .50 Alaskan. Jwp475 has a Freedom 83 chambered in .500 JRH and it is pretty snappy, but I find my DA .500 Linebaugh more punishing due to the recoil characteristics of the DA versus the SA revolver - plus it is quite light in weight. But, those FAs are just light and don't lend themselves well to powerful cartridges loaded to the maximum.

Here's another large (very large) cartridge next to the .50 AK -- this time a .500 Smith & Wesson. All I can say is yikes!

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Whitworth, the one round and gun that makes me think twice is my 4 inch S&W 500 Mag with 700 gr. bullets from Ranger Rick and 25 gr. of H 110.

The recoil is brutal in the 4 inch 500 Mag.
Also my BFR in 500 mag with the same loads are a handful.

I will stick to the 440 gr. in my 500 Mags.

I would imagine that load sucks to shoot off the bench! I would still like to try it (glutton for punishment! )! How fast does it go, Alex?

IIRC my Nimrod goes right about 48 oz. Since I am ~10,000 miles away from it I can't weigh it again to confirm but do recall it not being much different than my 45 Accusport.

quote:

Originally posted by Boxhead:
IIRC my Nimrod goes right about 48 oz. Since I am ~10,000 miles away from it I can't weigh it again to confirm but do recall it not being much different than my 45 Accusport.

That's light and really goes a long way to making the recol punishing.

quote:

Posted 11 January 2010 18:39 Hide Post
It seems we should be taking recoil characteristics rather than just recoil. My FA in 475 Linebaugh recoils quite severely ie. it is something I have to prepare for (mentally), however I am not sure that my head is in danger of being hit (off a bench). Rather it recoils upward, instead of up and back in a semicircle. Could it be that we have effects due to type of rest used, as well as characteristics of the gun/load, method of gripping etc.
I think Marko should provide a video of his head being hit so that we can all analyze what is happening!!!
Peter.

I have shot the Freedom .475 from Creedmore using one hand many, many times, also off hand a few times. I shot it from bags quite a few times too and to tell the truth, it is a piece of cake compared to the 3# .500. I have managed less then 1" at 50 yards with my 420 gr load, open sights. BUUUUT, only with the rubber grips. When John puts the pretty ones on, accuracy goes down. Barrel rise and pain in my knuckle goes up.
I have shot the Freedom .454 many, many times and don't feel it is much different then a .44, at least it doesn't bother me at all.
A double action is a whole lot worse in any caliber. The SRH hit my hand harder then a SBH but the nice rubber factory grips did not sting my hand.
If you want a shooter instead of a show piece, find grips that help you shoot no matter how ugly.
The rest does change things, sandbags and the way you hold the gun can whip your wrists until there is pain. Elbows can be beat.
Anyway, if you hold the gun so it doesn't hurt, either off hand or with a standing frame rest, then it is too hard to hold still and keep the sights on the target.
It is always a compromise between recoil and holding the gun still.
Recoil does not bother me much and I will not flinch or move from a rest, vision can be a problem but never moving as I shoot. But when I can no longer gain enough strength to control the gun, I can not shoot groups. This will be different for every shooter and once the gun is too big and you can't control it, it is best to back down.
I have been called a raving liar with my .475 groups but I am the first to admit that the .475 might be my limit for accuracy.
Others might say the .41 is all they can shoot accurately. Others fear the .44. Others think a 1911 kicks like a mule.
Once recoil gets too bad you will not get stronger, you need to be stronger first or the gun will break something in your body.
A lot of those big rifles have pulled guys retinas loose in their eyes and some have torn the heart loose. Why tear your hands and wrists apart to prove you are tough?
I am getting too old for that stuff. Once I can't get accuracy, it is over for that caliber.

you can't make a post saying you hit your head with out pics.We need to see to believe

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Let's talk recoil.

Many of us here love big-bore revolvers. But, there is a price to pay for the big revolvers we are so fond of. Recoil, and lots of it. . . .

So, let's hear it.

What is your practical limit?

What is the maximum recoil you are willing to tollerate?

What is the worst caliber/load/gun combination that you have shot?

I have developed MY 475 load: 403-grain WFN PB (air-dropped wheel weight, .476-inch sized); Hornady brass; CCI 350 primers; and 24.7 grains H110. From one of my 6-inch FA 83s (the only one I used), this chronographs at 1350 fps ±20. From unsupported sitting position, the load delivers quarter-sized 3-shot groups at 25 meters and under Eisenhower-dollar-sized groups at 50 meters. I suspect the load is, in fact, still more precise. I can shoot three rounds per session - that's it. The same everything except loading 22.5 grains H4227 drops the muzzle velocity to 1150 fps ± 30. Accuracy is reduced - that is, groups approximately double in size. This load, with its reduced recoil and muzzle blast I can shoot 50 rounds per session, no sweat. My experience is that muzzle blast is integral with actual recoil when identifying Boomer-shooting discomfort.

I used the H110 load this past season only because it is the most accurate load I can create, so far. However, had the accuracy of H110 and H4227 loads been reversed, I would have used it in a New York minute.

Hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Whitworth, the one round and gun that makes me think twice is my 4 inch S&W 500 Mag with 700 gr. bullets from Ranger Rick and 25 gr. of H 110.

The recoil is brutal in the 4 inch 500 Mag.
Also my BFR in 500 mag with the same loads are a handful.

I will stick to the 440 gr. in my 500 Mags.

I would imagine that load sucks to shoot off the bench! I would still like to try it (glutton for punishment! )! How fast does it go, Alex?

1200 fps

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
you can't make a post saying you hit your head with out pics.We need to see to believe

Here you go......



Now, I tell you what. I'll bring it on the next group hunt and we'll see how many will want to shoot it. I will bring enough ammo for all......and save a few for you, TBEAR! Just promise me in front of our forum members that you will shoot it!

Look at it, and contemplate your fate.......

quote:

I have developed MY 475 load: 403-grain WFN PB (air-dropped wheel weight, .476-inch sized); Hornady brass; CCI 350 primers; and 24.7 grains H110. From one of my 6-inch FA 83s (the only one I used), this chronographs at 1350 fps ±20. From unsupported sitting position, the load delivers quarter-sized 3-shot groups at 25 meters and under Eisenhower-dollar-sized groups at 50 meters. I suspect the load is, in fact, still more precise. I can shoot three rounds per session - that's it. The same everything except loading 22.5 grains H4227 drops the muzzle velocity to 1150 fps ± 30. Accuracy is reduced - that is, groups approximately double in size. This load, with its reduced recoil and muzzle blast I can shoot 50 rounds per session, no sweat. My experience is that muzzle blast is integral with actual recoil when identifying Boomer-shooting discomfort.

I used the H110 load this past season only because it is the most accurate load I can create, so far. However, had the accuracy of H110 and H4227 loads been reversed, I would have used it in a New York minute.

My load in the BFR is 26 gr of 296 behind a 420 gr boolit going 1330 fps out of a 7-1/2" barrel. Marko uses 1/2 gr more powder because of the slower twist so he must be near 1350 fps.
I can shoot most of the day with my BFR but not with Marko's .475. His will wear on a guy.
Magnum Research uses a recoil factor. They take the boolit weight and add the velocity. Multiply that by the velocity, then multiply the weight of the gun by 80 and divide into the first figure.
It just doesn't work!!!! This puts the .500 at 74.47 RF below the SRH .454 at 115.15 RF and equal to the 45-70 BFR at 74.1. I can shoot the BFR all day, hundreds of shots but 5 with Markos gun and I am done.
My BFR .475 with a red dot is 66.03 RF. Now I know darn well the .475 kicks a LOT harder then a .454. Maybe not as sharp but much more recoil.
What we need is a way to figure PAIN INDEX! Big hammer against a little one!

And the Alaskan uses 62 grains of powder......

Tbear,

Don't know you personally, but based on your prior posts; I'd recommend you not take Whitworth up on that dare. You may not be able to handle that pussycat.

I would shoot it but Marko refuses to put grips on it to get me away from the trigger guard. He likes the slippery grips that aid in head bashing.
I offered him a hard hat.
I think I detect a little flattening of the front sight! Talk about a hard head.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I would shoot it but Marko refuses to put grips on it to get me away from the trigger guard. He likes the slippery grips that aid in head bashing.
I offered him a hard hat.
I think I detect a little flattening of the front sight! Talk about a hard head.

Just tape your damn finger, Nancy boy! No excuses!

Here is the little jewel in full recoil

The "little jewel!" That's rich!

I agree

I know I will pass on shooting it. Does not look like fun at all...

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
I know I will pass on shooting it. Does not look like fun at all...

It actually is in a wild, frightening, chaotic, out-of-control sort of way!

My .500 Max, with the Bisley grip, and 525's at 1350 fps is MORE then I want.

I feel comfortable with 400 grains at 1350 in my FA 83 .475's, provided the grips are fit to my hand size.

I'm dropping in bullet weight to 265-350 grains for pretty much all my shooting, and, going off the low
end of the reloading tables with 4227.

I see NO reason to beat up my expensive Ruger Max with heavy bullets and high pressure.

I found with small grips, my Seville became unshootable much over 265 grains at 1450 fps.

325-360 grain bullets, at between 1350-1550 fps where just horrible in my Seville.

My take on that old Remington 44 ammo, special at least, was they used horrible, cheap, high recoiling powder
that gave a ton of recoil, little velocity, but made you think you were shooting something powerful.

My hot 500gr slugs were bad enough but 29.2gr of 4198 and RR 700gr slugs in this little beast is all I can stand.



After the first shot the fingers on my shooting hand went numb, and I was wearing shooting gloves! The third shot busted a blood vessel in my trigger finger. 5 shots was all I could take. NEVER again. I didn't try shooting anything for two weeks afterwards. It was an accurate load @25yds though

Less we forget the REAL recoil king:


I shot ONE round of full house buffalobore ammo, unloaded the gun, and gave the ammo to a friend who had a REAL .357...

quote:

Originally posted by GS:I see NO reason to beat up my expensive Ruger Max with heavy bullets and high pressure.

You see, that's the beauty of the .50 Alaskan, 525s at 1,575 aren't high-pressure loads! Hell, you could load it faster -- if your screws are loose enough.......

quote:

Originally posted by DEC:
My hot 500gr slugs were bad enough but 29.2gr of 4198 and RR 700gr slugs in this little beast is all I can stand.



After the first shot the fingers on my shooting hand went numb, and I was wearing shooting gloves! The third shot busted a blood vessel in my trigger finger. 5 shots was all I could take. NEVER again. I didn't try shooting anything for two weeks afterwards. It was an accurate load @25yds though

DEC, that doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun! How fast can that snubby push a 700 grain bullet?

quote:

DEC, that doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun! shocker How fast can that snubby push a 700 grain bullet?

That's OK Marko, hospitals have lots of stitches, scalpels and MRI machines!
After Obama gets done, ALL of us can get fixed FREE.

The 50 Alaskan's recoil is well destributed by the grips and is not painful to the hand, it just hurts if you don't use enough muscle tension to keep the sight out of your head

[quote]After Obama gets done, ALL of us can get fixed FREE.] Maybe or maybe not, after taking a number and standing in line forever to wait to be assigned to your EEO selected "doctor" nobody's ever heard of. But, I certainly have to give the guy credit..he's got one hell of a fear factor going for him..every time he opens his mouth it scares all normal folks to death..

Here's a recoil question I've been wondering about. Some of the biggies I assume are sold for self defense against the largest bears. I've never shot the real hard kickers, but if the recoil puts the barrel in contact with one's head and such, then isn't that going to be a "one and done" shot when needed? I mean, those bears have been clocked at what? 35 mph in a short burst? Wouldn't it be better to use something in the range of a .44 mag with a 240 grainer at whatever is a good stiff fps for those? From a DA it might improve the odds of follow ups.