What's the best caliber for hunting buffalo, the .454 Cas. .475 linebaugh or the new .500 W.E ?
I 'll use a freedom arms.

..American, African or Asian???

Bob

Go with the 475L as it has more cross section than the 454 with very good penetration and also has more penetration than the 500 without sacrificing the large diameter. You must stay with a hard cast lead bullet for the penetration required on such large animals. There are better rounds with more punch but its not an option if you are staying with a FA factory loading. Go to Gary Reeders website and look at his Professional Hunter model in either the 475L-Max or the 500L-Max and get a lot more power in a revolver.

Penetration testing is showing that one gains little in extra penetration for the extra muzzle blast and recoil from the Linebaugh Longs over the regular Linebaugh calibers. The .475 penetrates a bit better in testing than does the 500 Linebaugh. Anything I say about the .500 WE is speculation at this point as I have yet to shoot one.

I agree with staying with the hard cast bullets. Optimum bullet weights, in my opinion are between 400 and 425 grains for the .475. Cast Performance sells a 425 WFNGC that my friend Larry Rogers used to harvest a large rhino last summer. Another option for evtra penetration is to use Belt Mountains's Punch bullets; these are turned from brass.

Thanks for yours advices.
I hunt in Africa and I hope to shot a buffalo.
Another question ?
What's the best handgun hunting ?

Hmm,

I would never trust someone else to have to deliver the killing punch on a buffalo. So to me....

The best caliber is a stoutly made .400 or larger bullet of over 300 grains but preferrably over 400 fired at over 2000 feet per second from a lever, bolt, or double rifle.

I'll hunt the small stuff with handguns, but the big stuff isn't for me.

Alain,

Define "best" with regards to handgun hunting. It's all fun to me.

The big bore revolver loads do not have the punch of the big bore rifles, but they do penetrate nearly as deep and will get the bullets where they need to go.

Have taken three Cape Buf, 2 with .475L, 1 with .45 LC. There is a new (to me at least) bullet you might want to try in .475L Call me at 800 435-5446 if you wnat more info. I just got back last Sat. and would post a pic if i knew how.

Have you checked out the S&W 460?

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Hmm,

I would never trust someone else to have to deliver the killing punch on a buffalo. So to me....

The best caliber is a stoutly made .400 or larger bullet of over 300 grains but preferrably over 400 fired at over 2000 feet per second from a lever, bolt, or double rifle.

I'll hunt the small stuff with handguns, but the big stuff isn't for me.

D99, I have an Encore handgun in 416 GNR that fires a 400 grain bullet at 2250. Think it would work????

I would not want to piss this guy off

www.ultimateungulate.com

I suspect a 400-425 grain hard cast bullet launched from a 475L would handle him.

no question about it, and right damned quick too...

tembo... yep, that 416GNR would do quite nicely. Hell, I just came back from SA and one of the guys that was with took one down with a 378GNR and 300gr. solids. If the big hole is where it should be he's going down, and if it takes more than one shot that is not unusual even for big bore rifles. Hey, you are paying for some excitement too, thats why its called dangerous game and you are there in the first place.

A 45-70 Encore pistol firing garrett hammerhead rounds should be potent enough.

dont know never did it but shot two bison with the .500 linebaugh and it did well. I know at the linebaugh seminar a couple years back there was a man there that shot a few elephant with handguns and he used both the .500 and the .475 and prefered the .475 becaue it tended to penetrate heavy bone better and in penetration testing weve done the .475 does tend to beat out dammed near anything.

Lloyd,

The .475 does penetrate further than the .500 given its increased sectional density in the 400-425 grain wieghts. Have you shot any of the Grizzly cartridges with the 500 grain bullets? These and the 450 grain Punch bullets in the 500 start closing the gap in penetration between the two calibers.

I would not hesitate to go after dangerous gane with either caliber.

We'll be hunting buffalo in Zimbabwe in September 2006. One of my hunting buddies will be hunting his buffalo with his Thompson Encore pistol. Pistol boasts a 416 Rigby barrel by Bullberry Barrelworks (US).

Will be using 400gr Rhino solid shank bullets (bonded core).

Will keep you guys posted.

quote:

Originally posted by Tembo:

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Hmm,

I would never trust someone else to have to deliver the killing punch on a buffalo. So to me....

The best caliber is a stoutly made .400 or larger bullet of over 300 grains but preferrably over 400 fired at over 2000 feet per second from a lever, bolt, or double rifle.

I'll hunt the small stuff with handguns, but the big stuff isn't for me.

D99, I have an Encore handgun in 416 GNR that fires a 400 grain bullet at 2250. Think it would work????

Tembo, how many rounds can you get off in a 25 yard dash? 1?

I think I will stand by my previous statment!

MS Hitman
I just got back from Zambia last Sat. and one of Grizzly's Belt Mtn. Punch bullets worked great in .475 (Bowen Bisley)It penetrated thru to the off shoulder of a pretty good Buff after taking out the top of the heart. I have shot 2 other Buff with LBT hard cast (one with .475 420gr and one with 325 gr .45) They worked but IMO this Punch bullet is the answer. I have noticed some shearing with lead bullets, especially finishing shots down thru the spine. My conjecture is the the sharp edges of the vertebrae may be the reason. I fired one of the Punch Bullets thru the spine of this last animal and I think you could have reloaded it just the way it came out.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

quote:

Originally posted by Tembo:

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Hmm,

I would never trust someone else to have to deliver the killing punch on a buffalo. So to me....

The best caliber is a stoutly made .400 or larger bullet of over 300 grains but preferrably over 400 fired at over 2000 feet per second from a lever, bolt, or double rifle.

I'll hunt the small stuff with handguns, but the big stuff isn't for me.

D99, I have an Encore handgun in 416 GNR that fires a 400 grain bullet at 2250. Think it would work????

Tembo, how many rounds can you get off in a 25 yard dash? 1?

I think I will stand by my previous statment!

All a good hunter needs is 1. By your logic, everyone should be hunting DG with a semi auto. Thank God you weren't around in Africa when all they had were muzzleloaders.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Lloyd,

The .475 does penetrate further than the .500 given its increased sectional density in the 400-425 grain wieghts. Have you shot any of the Grizzly cartridges with the 500 grain bullets? These and the 450 grain Punch bullets in the 500 start closing the gap in penetration between the two calibers.

I would not hesitate to go after dangerous gane with either caliber.[/QUOTE/]

The Cast Performance 525 grain as loaded by Buffalo Bore to 1120 fps will out penetrate the 420 grain 475 ( Buffalo Bore) at 1420 fps. The 525 grain is quite amazing out of the 500 Linebaugh

The thing is WHO'S GOING TO BE CRAZY ENOUGH TO LET YOU DO IT.

quote:

The thing is WHO'S GOING TO BE CRAZY ENOUGH TO LET YOU DO IT.

Checkout the Buffalo Bore web site and you will see Cape Buffalo and American Bison that have been taken with big bore revolvers and Buffalo Bore factory loads

http://buffalobore.com/hunts/Default.htm

only grizzly ammo i shot was some that Mike gave us at the seminar a couple years back and it was dammed good ammo. Ive shot alot of kellys punch bullets. My buddy AL and i have tested them for kelly in every caliber he makes and they are by far the cadilacs of bullets. They will penetrate better then any cast bullet. Sometimes drasticaly so. They may be expensive but if i was going to africa to hunt theyd be in my guns!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
dont know never did it but shot two bison with the .500 linebaugh and it did well. I know at the linebaugh seminar a couple years back there was a man there that shot a few elephant with handguns and he used both the .500 and the .475 and prefered the .475 becaue it tended to penetrate heavy bone better and in penetration testing weve done the .475 does tend to beat out dammed near anything.

youve got a good point. I made a blanket statement that the .475 will outpenetrate the .500 but in all reality loaded properly theres very little differnce. Especially with punch bullets. I woundnt be afraid to hunt any animal on the planet with even a 45 colt loaded properly using a punch bullet. They really are that dammed good.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Lloyd,

The .475 does penetrate further than the .500 given its increased sectional density in the 400-425 grain wieghts. Have you shot any of the Grizzly cartridges with the 500 grain bullets? These and the 450 grain Punch bullets in the 500 start closing the gap in penetration between the two calibers.

I would not hesitate to go after dangerous gane with either caliber.[/QUOTE/]

The Cast Performance 525 grain as loaded by Buffalo Bore to 1120 fps will out penetrate the 420 grain 475 ( Buffalo Bore) at 1420 fps. The 525 grain is quite amazing out of the 500 Linebaugh

That pic looks like 'Death' waiting to happen. For me, for something that big & ugly, with a handgun my #1 choice would be my .500 S&W. Loads, one of the following; 400gr Sierra FPJ, 440gr cast GC or the 500gr Hornady JFP. I'm trying to set up for a handgun hunt for Moose in Alaska, hopefully 2008 or 9 and the .500 S&W is what I would use. There was an article in The American Handgunner, To Africa With A .500 S&W by Mark Hampton where they hunted Elephant & Cape Buffalo. I'll settle for Moose.

quote:

Originally posted by "JB":
I would not want to piss this guy off

www.ultimateungulate.com

The Grizzly Cartridge Co bought Cast Performance source of their bullets.

I spoke with Mike right after he got it. He's a very nice guy and I hope he does well with it.

I believe that Grizzly Ammo will be loading the next Factory run of the 500 JRH cartridge.Buffalo Bore loaded the first run

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I spoke with Mike right after he got it. He's a very nice guy and I hope he does well with it.

He should cast performance staff are remaining with him.

I'm wondering, is the 454 more on the small side for something as large as Buffalo?
There were some comments about the 475 Linebaugh penetrating better than the 500 L, but when going to the long 475 and 500 cartriges on the stretch frames, isn't the 500 supposed to be even better than the regular 475?
With that thought, would the 500 S&W be better/ more versatile? With the longer/larger case, it could be loaded to higher velocity when needed, but could also be loaded down to regular 500 Linebaugh levels.
Plus there is always the 700gn loadings from Ballistic Supply. Does anybody know if the 700gn bullets are stable while penetrating?
What about the 500 JRH ammo, does it shoot acceptably well in the 500 S&W chambers? kind of like the 458 Win and Lott?

I think the 500 S&W cases need a bigger rim. I've noticed that sometimes a case will slip over the extractor and be only half way out. That sure would suck if you had to do a fast reload.
Speaking of fast reloads, has anyone made a speed loader for the 500 S&W yet?

quote:

Originally posted by Dev Moring:
Have taken three Cape Buf, 2 with .475L, 1 with .45 LC. There is a new (to me at least) bullet you might want to try in .475L Call me at 800 435-5446 if you wnat more info. I just got back last Sat. and would post a pic if i knew how.

pm me and i'll post them for you

Penetration testing to date has shown there is not a sginificant increase in penetratio when going from the standard to the maximum Linebaugh calibers. Therefore, I can surmise that the .500 S&W is not going to penetrate much more than a regular .500 Linebaugh.

I don't have load data on the.500 Linebaugh but I understand there are distinct velocity differences between the two, it being somewhat higher for the .500 S&W. IF so, for the same bullet weights, velocity translates to ft. lbs of energy, therefore hitting power and probably penetration.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
Penetration testing to date has shown there is not a sginificant increase in penetratio when going from the standard to the maximum Linebaugh calibers. Therefore, I can surmise that the .500 S&W is not going to penetrate much more than a regular .500 Linebaugh.

bullet design is a big factor...similar s.d and meplats should penetrate proportionaly but the bigger the meplat the faster it needs to go proportionaly...did that make sense???

speed does not give you more penetration in a handgun over a certain point. Testing weve done with cast bullets shows an optimum velocity of 1200-1300 and actually theres not much differnce betwee 1000-1200. Over 1300 and you open a can of worms with bullet failure. Once a cast bullet has deformed in any way its penetration suffers drastically. To soft of an alloy can mushroom and to hard can fracture. If i was to take dangerous game it would be with a heavy for caliber lfn or kieth cast out of 5050 ww/lynotype at about 1200 fps. Testing has shown that thats about optimal. Or better yet buck up for some of kellys punch bullets. Now theres a bullet that penetrates!!!!!!

Lloyd,

In relation to Lymans #2, just where does your 50/50 mix fall hardness wise?

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
speed does not give you more penetration in a handgun over a certain point. Testing weve done with cast bullets shows an optimum velocity of 1200-1300 and actually theres not much differnce betwee 1000-1200. Over 1300 and you open a can of worms with bullet failure. Once a cast bullet has deformed in any way its penetration suffers drastically. To soft of an alloy can mushroom and to hard can fracture. If i was to take dangerous game it would be with a heavy for caliber lfn or kieth cast out of 5050 ww/lynotype at about 1200 fps. Testing has shown that thats about optimal. Or better yet buck up for some of kellys punch bullets. Now theres a bullet that penetrates!!!!!!

This post is right on the money,more speed definately does not nessecarly mean more penetration.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnn:
That pic looks like 'Death' waiting to happen. For me, for something that big & ugly, with a handgun my #1 choice would be my .500 S&W. Loads, one of the following; 400gr Sierra FPJ, 440gr cast GC or the 500gr Hornady JFP. I'm trying to set up for a handgun hunt for Moose in Alaska, hopefully 2008 or 9 and the .500 S&W is what I would use. There was an article in The American Handgunner, To Africa With A .500 S&W by Mark Hampton where they hunted Elephant & Cape Buffalo. I'll settle for Moose.

quote:

Originally posted by "JB":
I would not want to piss this guy off

www.ultimateungulate.com

Soft Boss...who wants to shoot him?