I have been working on a design for a revolver to serve all of the above purposes. The cartridge has to be suitable for back up (large dangerous game at close range), yet, should allow for light loads/shot loads to take small game/vermin if need be. This gun should also produce enough velocity/power to be used as a hunting weapon as well at normal handgun ranges (50 yards or so). The gun itself needs to be compact, and of reasonably light weight for the caliber used. If you could design your dream gun to fullfill the above requirements (regardless of cost)...what kind of revolver would you choose, chambered in which cartridge, and, what modifications would you make to the gun? I am looking for serious input...your ideas are welcome, and would be of interest to me! Thanks! FT

S&W 329 with no J lock and a 5 inch barrel.

Perry

I have two that fit those criteria. A .500 Linebaugh SRH with a 5-inch barrel -- it weighs less than my 6.5-inch M29, and my Redhawk in .454 Casull with a 4-inch barrel. Both packable and very capable.

I have a 329 S&W next to me as I write this, it belongs to a freind of mine who listened to all the gleaming stories of how nice they are to pack...you'll never even know you are carrying it. Well, the fact is, at some point you might need to fire it & when you do reality is going to set in.
If weight is a factor then shed some weight somewhere else & go with a gun that YOU can shoot, your life just might depend on it.
I had my friend shoot his new gun yesterday with some heavy 44 special loads & he fired exactly one shot & said it was brutal. I know there are some out there that swear by these light weight guns & can probably shoot them ok, but the fact remains, most people can not shoot them with any degree of accuracy & absolutely no comfort.
You have to be able to hit the target, whether its a grouse for supper or a mad bear...or perhaps a 2 legged predator, accuracy has to be there with the first shot. A few extra ounces of weight really helps control recoil & just might make the difference. Light weight guns with monster loads are a disaster!
My answer would be a 4-4 1/2" 44 magnum or 45 colt in a standard weight gun with a load that I can shoot accurately, it does not have to be a maximum, full power load to save your hide. Use good bullets & hit with the first shot & you won't go hungry & you will come home safely.

Dick

i use my alaskan, 454 casull, more accurate than it has any right to be and highly packable. other than that i'd also use a 5"S&W model 29. that one's next on the list in .44 mag

I have a Taurus Tracker in 41Mag that is all I need for that purpose. No, it's not a 45 or 50 something or other, but it works for everything I will ever need. It shoots the Montana 220 WFNGC just where I want it to go as well as the Federal 250 castcore.

Thanks for the reply's! Now, the point I am trying to make: we all love our guns as they come from the factory, but there is no such thing as the perfect gun. Each and every one of you, I know, at one time or another, has thought "if this gun was like this, or had that, it would make it so much better"! I am just trying to get everyone to think outside the box, and design a dream gun for the purpose I have stated.....and, maybe some of your ideas (more minds are better than one) can be incorporated in what I am trying to do with this new custom I am going to build. The gun I am starting with is a 44 Mag, Redhawk, 4"...in stainless.

A lot of thought went into my .500 Linebaugh project. I wanted a lightweight packable revolver that would undeniably deliver the goods. It's my "oh sh$@t" gun.

Th .454 was an afterthought and it turned out great!

Whit; I agree, both are nice guns...and they are exactly right for you. For me, I want something even more compact...unobtrusive, so to speak (within reason, of course....I have to consider the caliber).....nothing fancy...simple, light, rugged....you know, a work gun. I just wanted to have folks kick around some ideas. I could learn something here. I started this projsct with a 2" Smith 629 with fixed sights....the perfect gun in my opinion, but, the short cylinder (chambers) didnt allow me to get the most out of the heavy bullets that I shoot. I also make my own full metal shot cartridges, and in the Ruger cylinder they hold a real hefty charge of shot...much more than the shot capsules. Anyway, the Smith went down the road, and the Redhawk became my choice. I also have an old blue 5.5" Redhawk, and for strickly hunting purposes, it is a fine gun....I guess I just want something that has "universal" use abilities in an easy to haul around package.

sounds like the 4 inch redhawk fits the bill nicely as would the 41 mag.

I have a Taurus Tracker Total Titanuim in 45LC that shoots and handles real good, even with the heavier loads. This revolver can take heavy loads, but not quite as heavy as the Ruger can handle. I run 250gr bullets at 1200fps and that is plenty for just about any situation when the shots need to be close in. I belive the empty weight is 20oz for the 4" ported barrel. It has very comfortable "ribber" grips that soak up any nasty recoil. Thats my packin gun.

Thanks all...again. I have (or my wife does...I should say) a Smith model 696...3" 44 special. This is a sweet gun to carry....I would like the Redhawk "there-abouts". A three inch barrel would get me the velocities I need (I have already shot these loads in the 4"er, and they are "cream puffs"), and make the gun compact...I also have an idea for modifying the grip frame to bring the overall size down a bit more. These two modifications will reduce the weight a bit, but, still allow me to shoot my heavy bullet loads, and have a fair sight picture..........I am not recoil shy, so the recoil issue is a non-starter. That 2" Smith 629 I had, with Eagle Secret Service grips, firing hot loads, didnt even hurt..........until I stopped shooting!

I carry a Taurus Ti tracker in 41 mag 215 gr hard cast. I have also carried a 44 redhawk but it gets dam heveay after a while.

the best is the one you have on you at the time you need it.

A titanium Redhawk. Now that would be strong and light

Flattop,

Look at the 4-5/8" SS NMBH in 45LC. It will stand bull stout loads. My daily load is a 280 gr LBT WFN @ 1200 fps. My Alaska load is the 335 gr LBT WFN at 1150 fps. When I bought it used, it had the pearlite grips on it and they went to Alaska 2 yrs back. Now, it carries the Pacmyer's which to me are more comfortable to shoot.

I pack it in a Mernickle Field II holster cross draw and for the most part totally forget it's there except when I pat it for reassurance.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
I have been working on a design for a revolver to serve all of the above purposes. The cartridge has to be suitable for back up (large dangerous game at close range), yet, should allow for light loads/shot loads to take small game/vermin if need be. This gun should also produce enough velocity/power to be used as a hunting weapon as well at normal handgun ranges (50 yards or so). The gun itself needs to be compact, and of reasonably light weight for the caliber used. If you could design your dream gun to fullfill the above requirements (regardless of cost)...what kind of revolver would you choose, chambered in which cartridge, and, what modifications would you make to the gun? I am looking for serious input...your ideas are welcome, and would be of interest to me! Thanks! FT

This is about as close as I've seen. This is my writeup:
S&W329pd information

Whitworth tell us the story behind the SRH 454 Redhawk

quote:

Originally posted by AllStainless:
Whitworth tell us the story behind the SRH 454 Redhawk

The .454 cylinder that we used in the Redhawk actually came out of the SRH that is now a .500 Linebaugh. Didn't take a whole lot of work by Jack Huntington to fit it to a .45 Colt Redhawk. It kicks a bit, bbut it's really packable.

Whit you should be ashamed for messing up a good colt,but I know you and if it ain't trying to twist your hand off or gash your head,or cut up you hands you ain't happy,so I get it.HaHaHaHa

For the OP I think,at least for me they are already out there,the 4" ruger redhawk or the 4 5/8" blackhawk,either in 45colt.In my opinion I own the perfect one.It's a 4 5/8" blackhawk I converted to bisley.A 255gr bullet at 800fps will handle small table fare and two legged intruders,300gr bullet at 1150-1200fps for general hunting,and the 350-360gr bullets at 1100-1200fps for the real nasty stuff.IMO a 300wfn at 1200 could handle just about anything in North America,unless dinasours make a comeback.

Now JWPs wesson/hawk maybe the ticket with a little shorter barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
Whit you should be ashamed for messing up a good colt,but I know you and if it ain't trying to twist your hand off or gash your head,or cut up you hands you ain't happy,so I get it.HaHaHaHa

I can't help myself!

Over the years I've put a lot of thought into what I thought was the perfect back-up pistol (at least for my uses). My requirements are to be convenient to carry yet accurate at distance if I get caught without a rifle. Enough power to stop the wounded boars I have to follow, but light enough recoil to allow fast follow-up shots.

After 20+ years of guiding, I've played with guns from .357 Mag. to .500 S&W. In between were the 10mm, .41 Mag., .44 Mag., .45 ACP and .480 Ruger.

The guns included many different S&W revolvers, a Glock, a couple Rugers (both SA & DA), a Desert Eagle and a custom double stack 1911 clone. Barrel lengths from 3" to 8 3/8".

The Glock just plan couldn't cut it in accuracy for longer ranges. The .45 and .357's didn't have the needed stopping power or penetration I wanted on big boars. The Desert Eagle was a bad idea all the way around - not reliable, accurate or portable enough to be useful. The .500 is too heavy to carry and kicks too much for quick follow-up shots. The .480 disappeared too quickly to get cheap enough bullets and brass to be able to practice regularly. The .41 is a great cartridge, but bullets and brass aren't as easy to come by in quantity as the .44.

The .44 Mag. really makes the most sense for my uses. Common enough brass and bullets to allow regular practice. Decent stopping power and penetration, but plenty reasonable enough recoil for fast follow-up shots.

The longer barrels worked great for recovery between shots and longer distance, but were really difficult when crawling through extremely thick cover (which is where my back-up guns earn their living). The 4" barrels are nice to carry, but I still can't palm them like a 3". The 3" guns were the easiest to crawl with and could be readied extremely fast in the tight places. They're a bit slower in recovery between shots though.

In several panicked situations the difference between getting off 2 or 3 shots instead of 1 is what kept everyone safe. Therefore in my experience DA revolvers with modest recoil are the only way to go -I've found there was absolutely no way to have time to use an SA or even take off a safety in tight situations.

The slighted tuned S&W actions have made me a real trigger snob. Unless I could get a "Python" in .44 Mag, I don't think anything else could compare to the N frames for me.

Right now I'm really impressed with the S&W 329 in 4". Most of the 3" .44's I've carry have had trimmed K frame Hogue's fitted to their round N frames (they fit much better than people would think with a tiny bit of trimming). My hands are large, but the smaller grip makes the gun easier to palm while crawling.

That tiny K frame grip was just a bit much with the recoil of the 329, so I went with the Hogue 500 grips. They're bulky, but they sure are more comfortable to shoot. I may go back to the K frame grips at some point to try them again. The light weight of the 329 makes it a true pleasure to pack.

The one modification that I think is HORRIBLY overlooked is cutting the cylinder for moon-clips. Other than action jobs and maybe grip changes, it's the best thing I've ever tried on a hunting handgun. Since you can still single load or use speed loaders you don't lose any features. But in a pinch you can reload very fast even with poor light or cold and wet hands. No fumbling, no possibility of dropping shells. Carrying your extra ammo in moon clips is extremely quiet as well (I stuff a rubber glove, used for field dressing, in each loaded moon clip to keep them completely silent).

Just recently I swapped that whacky shallow "V" notch rear blade on the 329 for a white outline square notch. I'm stunned at the accuracy difference it made. So far it looks like I've literally cut my groups from barely consistently in the black at 25 yards to 10 ring or better with the same exact loads. My only regret is that it took me so long to change this silly $10 part.

Wood stocks look great, but with cold, wet and muddy hands I think rubber is the only way to go. When crawling with a gun I can do way too much damage to wood grips anyway.

After many types of holsters I'm really sold on the vertical shoulder holster for the short barreled guns. Quick to draw, yet tucked under your arm to protect the gun and keep it from flopping around. I really like the Galco holsters with a double speedloader case to balance the off side with spare loaded moon clips.

So I'm sticking to the 4" 329 for a while - that's the long version of my 2 cents worth.

quote:

Just recently I swapped that whacky shallow "V" notch rear blade on the 329 for a white outline square notch. I'm stunned at the accuracy difference it made. So far it looks like I've literally cut my groups from barely consistently in the black at 25 yards to 10 ring or better with the same exact loads. My only regret is that it took me so long to change this silly $10 part.

IMHO those express style sights are horrible for accuracy on a revolver

jwp -- post up some pics of your Ruger/Dan Wesson hybrid!

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
A titanium Redhawk. Now that would be strong and light

JWP; You are always on the "cutting edge" of firearms technology!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GSSP:
Flattop,

Look at the 4-5/8" SS NMBH in 45LC. It will stand bull stout loads. My daily load is a 280 gr LBT WFN @ 1200 fps. My Alaska load is the 335 gr LBT WFN at 1150 fps. When I bought it used, it had the pearlite grips on it and they went to Alaska 2 yrs back. Now, it carries the Pacmyer's which to me are more comfortable to shoot.

I pack it in a Mernickle Field II holster cross draw and for the most part totally forget it's there except when I pat it for reassurance.

Alan

Alan; A few years back I took my old and well worn 5 1/2 SBH in 44 mag, and gave her a face lift. I did a complete action retrofit, shortened the barrel to 4" and obtained and fitted an as cast birds head grip frame from Ruger. After a few other modifications, I designed a crossdraw rig, and had Alan, at Chisholms Trail Leathers make it up for me....Its called a "Ranger Flat Top Crossdraw". This piece is an outstanding "carry gun" in this rig, and as you probably know all too well, a 4" barreled Blackhawk is probably the most well balanced handgun out there! I cannot post photos on this website, but would be glad to send you some pics if you are so interested.......believe me, I share your joy!!!! My next step in the "do all handgun" progression was to build a DA...As I stated above, I started with a Smith 629, 2", but the long cylinder lenght of the Redhawk more suited my use of heavier bullets (I shoot 325's and 405's, and the Smith just couldnt get me the velocities that I needed (and stay in one piece for any amount of time). Dont get me wrong, the Smith was a thoroughbred....but, I needed a work horse, and so chose the Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
For the OP I think,at least for me they are already out there,the 4" ruger redhawk or the 4 5/8" blackhawk,either in 45colt.In my opinion I own the perfect one.It's a 4 5/8" blackhawk I converted to bisley.A 255gr bullet at 800fps will handle small table fare and two legged intruders,300gr bullet at 1150-1200fps for general hunting,and the 350-360gr bullets at 1100-1200fps for the real nasty stuff.IMO a 300wfn at 1200 could handle just about anything in North America,unless dinasours make a comeback.

Now JWPs wesson/hawk maybe the ticket with a little shorter barrel.

Cottonstalk: I use a 325 grain at 1063 for hunting, a 405 at 1020 for back up......both are superb penetrators. I also make my own full metal shotshells...they hold well over a half ounce of shot. For self defense (against two legged vermin), I use a soft 250 Kieth that I put a .250 X .300 hollowpoint in (223 grain)....at 1000 fps it is devistating, and penetration is sufficient for the purpose....good "home, or close up self defense load. To use the 325, 405, and shotshell requires the long cylinder of the Redhawk. The Redhawk cylinder allows me to move those long bullets out of the case, reduce pressures, and thus reduce recoil (these are cream puff loads in a Redhawk)...and allow for the extra volume of shot in my shotshells. I have everything ready to go, and now I need to build a gun around those loads. I really like my 4" SBH, but, 300 grain bullets is the most that I shoot in that gun.

quote:

Originally posted by dla:

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
I have been working on a design for a revolver to serve all of the above purposes. The cartridge has to be suitable for back up (large dangerous game at close range), yet, should allow for light loads/shot loads to take small game/vermin if need be. This gun should also produce enough velocity/power to be used as a hunting weapon as well at normal handgun ranges (50 yards or so). The gun itself needs to be compact, and of reasonably light weight for the caliber used. If you could design your dream gun to fullfill the above requirements (regardless of cost)...what kind of revolver would you choose, chambered in which cartridge, and, what modifications would you make to the gun? I am looking for serious input...your ideas are welcome, and would be of interest to me! Thanks! FT

This is about as close as I've seen. This is my writeup:
S&W329pd information

dla; Excellent, and very thorough!!!! Everybody that I know of that owns these lightweights love them, but, they dont shoot them like you do yours!!! I find that a bit of weight in a handgun helps my shooting....I guess I am trying to find the perfect balance of all things considered. Size would be my first concern, and weight my second.....but, thats just me.

Kyler; Thanks! There is nothing like actual field reports/ use, to wring out an idea. Your post was very helpful!!! I am a big fan of the 44 Mag as well, and find it to be the best balanced, most versatile all-round handgun cartridge ever concieved. If there was no 44 Mag, I would make the 45 LC in a modern handgun, my choice, or the 41 Mag with the 270 and 300 grain bullets....it is no pushover by any means! anything larger or more powerful is just too much for me, and anything smaller wont get the job done.

Whit, Whit, Whit........May I suggest that you regularly shoot a 22 LR revolver, just to "come down" to where the rest of us folks are.

whitworth, lemmee guess, 400 grain double tap loads there, you can see the box, but based on nose profile i'd say 400?

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
whitworth, lemmee guess, 400 grain double tap loads there, you can see the box, but based on nose profile i'd say 400?

Of course, what did you expect, light and fast? LOL!

re: design your dream gun



I'm reading this thread with great interest.

I hope it ain't true that: "there is no such thing as the perfect gun."

while certainly not max, they aren't slow. they clock over 1450 out of my 7.5" FA on my last box. nice pistols btw.

Hawkeye Mountaineer; I have been following this thread with interest as well. Its amazing how varied the input has been. I believe there is such a thing as the perfect gun, within reason, and, for a specific purpose.....My 4" barreled SBH is about as close as I have come so far, but, I really wanted a DA....only that would make "perfect" a reality for me. Dont get me wrong, the SA I built is a sweet gun to carry and shoot, but, where speed is important the DA rules. I sure hope that more folks chime in on this....I am absorbing everything that is said.

quote:

Originally posted by flat top:
Hawkeye Mountaineer; I have been following this thread with interest as well. Its amazing how varied the input has been. I believe there is such a thing as the perfect gun, within reason, and, for a specific purpose.....My 4" barreled SBH is about as close as I have come so far, but, I really wanted a DA....only that would make "perfect" a reality for me. Dont get me wrong, the SA I built is a sweet gun to carry and shoot, but, where speed is important the DA rules. I sure hope that more folks chime in on this....I am absorbing everything that is said.

Don't bet on that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcZHVspVIDs

JWP;..............I will rephrase my last statement..."but, where speed is important the DA rules for me....cause I aint no Bob Munden!!!!" LOL!!!!

Practice

If you are underneath something large, hairy, and toothy, there is an advantage to being able to squeeze without cocking. Maybe, in the off chance this happens, the DA has an advantage. It probably isn't enough to concern me as I shoot my DAs almost exclusively SA......

JWP; At my age, there is not enough time to practice.....if I dont have it down pat by now, I never will!

Whit; Other than initial load development, I always shoot my DA's in DA......I fully intend to get my money's worth for the guns that I buy. I think that the DA does have its good points, but, I know some folks that are damn good and remarkedly fast and accurate with a single action...I am not one of them. For hunting purposes I am ok with the SA, but, if I need multiple shots in quick order, I am better off with the DA............I know my limitations.