her are a couple ways to go about it shared here previously...

these look pretty good but what do you think is the best way to make a 458 packable sixgun cart?

there is the mighty 458 bone crusher but what about a way to have a non bottlenecked cart?

the 460 xvr s&w seems to perform like a 45-70 with its high preasure so why not inside ream to fit a 458???

what about adding taper but no shoulder to the 480 ruger or 475 linebaugh??? kinda like a 1.4" version of the 45-70 but a smaller rim.

anyway... its a splinter in my mind and the 6 thou between the 45 and 458 can be blurred i think. what say yoos?

I have a Casull that slings 400 grain boolits at 1400 fps. It gets the job done and kicks like a mule. I also have a .475 Linebaugh (which I technically don't have yet as it hasn't been delivered - yet!). If I need something more, I'll grab my .416 Rem or .450 Ackley!

A 1.4-inch 45/70 necked to .510 is a .500 Linebaugh......

Not following Boomie. What is it exactly that you envision here (your post isn't clear to me -- and I'm not being a smartass!).

Please clarify!

the thought is a shorter 45-70 with a smaller rim basicly...

take the 45 colt case and ream it to 458 instead of 452 or the same to the cassul. or start with a new case like the 7.62x54r

quote:

but what do you think is the best way to make a 458 packable sixgun cart?

Seen in the gunrags a few years back a custom five shot Ruger Bisley using cutdown 458 Win Mag brass.

quote:

Originally posted by nordrseta:

quote:

but what do you think is the best way to make a 458 packable sixgun cart?

Seen in the gunrags a few years back a custom five shot Ruger Bisley using cutdown 458 Win Mag brass.

i think you are referring to the 458 devestator

below is the original thread on the 458 in the six gun

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2911043/m/714105136

here you can find the master lee martins 458 devestator stuff. www.singleactions.com

http://www.singleactions.com/458Devastator.pdf

You may want to talk to John Gallagher. He already has a very similar cartridge in a Ruger single action.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
You may want to talk to John Gallagher. He already has a very similar cartridge in a Ruger single action.

any details on the cartridge?

Yeah, Gallagher's got the details. You can reach him at 205-384-5229.

He calls it a .458 X .480 and he shot a 405 grain cast bullet at about 830 fps. This got 31" of penetration in wet newsprint.

the # was no good...

if there was no shoulder than hat would be cool otherwise might as well do te 458 bone crusher.

Also, Linebaugh, use to offer 458 (see http://www.foxwebdesigns.com/Area51/JLSixGun/articles/services.html
) and I have at home magazine with article written by Ross Seyfried describing 458 “standard†and 45 “maximum†Hamilton Bowen built for him. I think that Gallagher used 45-70 case and Linebaugh 458 Winchester Magnum, but I am positive that 458-s Bowen built were based on 458 Winchester Magnum case. Seyfried stated that maximum version offered little velocity increase over standard one and, if I remembered correctly, he didn’t see big advantage of longer version. Although, 7.62x54 might sound attractive, in reality it’s difficult to locate brass for boxer primers, at least in Canada. Advantage of 458 Winchester Magnum brass is that brass has boxer primer pockets, it is easy to find and case could have quite thicker wall so it’s grip on the bullet will be stronger; a BIG plus for heavy recoiling revolvers when bullet “walking†forward could lock the cylinder.

Further to this issue with heavy 45 loads, there is article “A ‘Quite†Big Game Load for 454 Casull†in Handloader’s Digest, 15th edition, 1996. Author described use of 500 gr bullet in 454 FA, lunched at about 1100 fps. The intention was to have powerful load that will have reduced muzzle blast.

Also, there are some other interesting loads, listed for 45 LC, see http://www.accuratearms.com/loaddata_caliber_handgun_standard_45cal.htm , go to 45 Colt 30 Cup
Top loads are up to 30,200 CUP. But those that intrigued me are starting loads for 300-350 gr bullets. I would guess that the pressures are in low 20 ksi range.
Despite around 1100 fps, these are still powerful loads, but with pressure slightly above top load for 45 ACP. The result should be lower muzzle blast and recoil. I would say that these could be very useful loads in a backup revolver, where the shooter wouldn’t suffer from ear shattering muzzle blast, when there is no time to put ear muffs.

alright all you pistolero hep cats...

what about the 458 socom in a maximum frame???

the socom case is just shy of 1.6" so unless i am wacky it should work right???

not a wildcat
packable
factory ammo!
reamers and dies off the shelf!

you could have a matching sixgun to your ar15!

try 205-388-0174

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
alright all you pistolero hep cats...

what about the 458 socom in a maximum frame???

the socom case is just shy of 1.6" so unless i am wacky it should work right???

not a wildcat
packable
factory ammo!
reamers and dies off the shelf!

you could have a matching sixgun to your ar15!

Except that bottleneck carts often don't work too well in revolvers. The case tends to back out on firing, jamming up the cylinder.
Stick with a straight walled cart, if you can.
JMHO. Who knows, this might be the one that works...

i would say its not optimal but hey...all off the shelf and factory stuff ammo is hard to beat...

maybe taking out the taper but that would require a custom reamer and fireforming...

if you wanted it to have a rim you could use 450/400 brass and trim the rim back since it is supposed to be the same casehead. then fireforming would be easier.

there are a number of bfr's that have taper to them 50ae 45-70, 30-30, 444 ect.

this would duplicate the better case designed 450 bone crusher... the only advantage would be all the factory and off the shelf stuff.

Try 205-388-0174

i tried a bit ago and got no answer

My .475 Linebaugh still makes a bigger hole!

the 475l is cool as s#!t...

this thought is about shooting 45-70 bullets.

damn if it wouldnt be cool to shoot the 458 socom in a revolver!

That socom could prove painful to the shooter as well!

a heavy 6" pistol carried on the hip with that firepower would be great. how heavy can you make one???

well i talked to mr gallagher and its funny...he has done exatly what i had dreamed of for several carts...

he seemed to ike the 458 socom idea to save at least $500 for off the shelf stuff and you can get classic 45-70 velocities at the same low preasure so that is easier on the gun and the hand in a smaller package than the bfr

he said he would look into the dimensions and see how doable it was.

thanks!

quote:

If I need something more, I'll grab my .416 Rem or .450 Ackley

and soon your 585!

ps sell the 416 since it will be overlap for the ackley

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
...sell the 416...

BAD!! BOOMSTICK! VERY BAD BOY!!!!

Getting back to your idea, dosen't the 452 (same hole basically) offer a lot better bullet selection for this kind of thing? I mean a revolver is going to have a tough time utilizing the 500 gr steel jacketed stuff. The win mag is berated as small cased!! Where are the plinking loads or the bullets for the inevitable short or "Special" to go along with this? As mentioned before the 475 is a bigger hole, already has a "special" (480 ruger) and could be streched even further like the 460 S&W did to the Casull. How will this stack up to the 500 Smith? I think it too already has a special.

Nice shooting the breeze though, what platform do you think it would fit in?

Want to invent something I want? Make a five or four shot something in a 4" N-frame smith with more short range punch than a 44 mag, or is that the 480 ruger already?

There will be no selling of the .416!! If you shot it, you would understand!! Anyhow.....

I don't think there is a shortage of cartridges that fit the bill for what you seek, Boomie. If you want a .45, the options are there from .45 ACP through .460. Now if you want to step up, you don't need more velocity, you need more diameter and bullet weight. These pistol rounds will never ever push a bullet at a high velocity, so you just need a bif, heavt bullet that'll penetrate......

Wouldn't the Smith X-frame work as a platform?? What did you have in mind, Boomie?

the socom idea is just an idea not a wip
it would go on a ruger maximum frame that has been "bisley'd"

gallagher is going to look into it as far as feasability in dimensions. i think it should work though.

i think the 405's will be perfect at 1200 to 1600 fps at lower preasure to help the hand and gun live longer.

seems to be a neet idea...

save lots of money and time using off the shelf stuff for maximum return.

imagine 45-70 bfr performance on a smaller package.

nothing wrong with bfr's they are great but not too packable in 45-70

quote:

I don't think there is a shortage of cartridges that fit the bill for what you seek, Boomie.

yes you are right but i am a demented wildcat enthusiast

You are so very right about the BFR in 45/70 -- that's one BIG revolver! I had the chance to buy a Ruger in .357 Maximum about 17 years ago (new in the box) with the plan to build a big bore like the .475 Linebaugh.......still kicking myself.......

My SRH slings 400 grainers at 1400 fps, and yes, it is a high pressure load! Oh, and it kicks like hell, but it is packable......

I shot a Huntington conversion in .50 Alaskan (525 gr LBT @ 1570) for 51" of penetration in wet newsprint. Shot the same weight and style bullet in a .500 Linebaugh going about 500 fps slower and got the same depth of penetration. I just don't see the advantage of the extra recoil and noise.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I shot a Huntington conversion in .50 Alaskan (525 gr LBT @ 1570) for 51" of penetration in wet newsprint. Shot the same weight and style bullet in a .500 Linebaugh going about 500 fps slower and got the same depth of penetration. I just don't see the advantage of the extra recoil and noise.

thats my point...not maximum speed but lower classic 45-70 velocities in a smaller package 1200 to 1600 but 1350 being my idea of ideal velocity with a 405 rem soft with low preasure.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I shot a Huntington conversion in .50 Alaskan (525 gr LBT @ 1570) for 51" of penetration in wet newsprint. Shot the same weight and style bullet in a .500 Linebaugh going about 500 fps slower and got the same depth of penetration. I just don't see the advantage of the extra recoil and noise.

If my calculation is correct, recoil should be at least 60% less. This is the advantage moderate loads from big bore handguns using heavy bullets. You can still have powerful, effective load without beating yourself with first round. See more here http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm , and here http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/NEW/RugSAbigbore.htm

well i talked to mr linebaugh today and he was saying he loads his stuff to 1200 fps...he seems to think that is the magic # and impact velocity @ 1100 is great.

a 1.4" version of the 45-70 should do that fine with 405's.

what should that be called?

45-45????

40 s&w 45-45 45-70

Cut the 45/70 case down to 1.4-inches, neck to .475 and voila, .475 Linebaugh......Load a 425 grain bullet to 1200 fps and you have a low-recoiling, super-penetrating SOB...... Or, just load the Casull light with a 400 grain bullet....... No need to reinvent the wheel!

yes yes yes but the forbidden fruit of the homecoming queen is a lot tastier than the marge the slightly overweight unpopular everyone had a try girl with a mustache but after 6 beers you dont mind too much.

I shot those two cartridges at this year's Linebaugh seminar at Jackson. Yes, 1,200 fps seems to be the magic velocity. However, there is no denying the effectiveness of big, heavy and slow moving bullets loaded to more moderate velocities.

Jeese, Boomie, are you likening the .475 Linebaugh to the over-weight unpopular girl?

MS Hitman -- moderate like 1350-1400 fps?

No, moderate is 800 to 1,000 fps. I got almost as much penetration with these loads as I do the go-anywhere kill-anything ones.

Sorry I misunderstood you! The 1350 - 1400 range with these heavy bullets are pretty heavy in the recoil department...... I don't really mind the recoil, but it's definitely not for everyone.

As soon as I am again set up for reloading I will be able to experiment more......

the linebaugh is awesome....

i wonder how heavy a bullet you can get to 1200 fps??? 500 @ 1200 ???

A picture of a wound channel in the off side rib cage of a large bull Elk made from a 440 grain flat point hard cast bullet at 950 FPS






How much more speed is needed????

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
a 1.4" version of the 45-70 should do that fine with 405's.

what should that be called?

45-45????

The inventor of the the 45/70 1.4 inch, John Gallagher, called it the .458-400. See Handloader No. 187 (June '97) for details. The cartridge seems to do everything you have in mind.