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Forgive me if this is stupid but has anyone done a 475 Special? A 1.1ish 475 L/480R Was thinking it be about 44 mag power in a 44 special donor gun with a custom 5 shot cylinder. Any thoughts? Think of this sweet S&W 44 Special but 44 mag power!  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | ||
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I think of it as a sweet .44 Special with as much effectiveness as a .44 Mag without all the muzzle blast and recoil. Carving up .44 Specials should be a hanging offense! If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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LOL well will a 38 special do? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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That was an interesting read. Well I think a 475 Special in a compact or concealable back up gun is a nifty idea. A baby big bore pistol with big boy potential. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Jack Huntington (JRH Advanced Gunsmithing) has been developing one for some time now......I believe on a 5-shot N-frame Smith & Wesson. In fact, it is close to completion. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Exactly what I was thinking! Great minds  A N frame with a 2.5" barrel and birdshead grip. Can you ask him what performace it is getting? I see one advantage is better performance in a shorter barrel with same weight bullets as the 44.
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I will ask him later today. Standby. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Looks like it will be pretty sweet. They are just trying to find the time to get the prototype done. I think every compact big bore nut will want one. I just love the size to power ratio and could be loaded to 45 ACP power to hog poping power. Was thinking it could make a great hunting side arm when bears are around. Compare to the size of a 480 Ruger Alaskan this is a great niche. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Taurus used to make a Tracker double action revolver in 45 Colt.  I'd think you could turn this into a 480 Achilles without too much work. There is 45 Cowboy Special cartridge that you could use for brass. It's basically a 45 Colt cut down to 45 ACP length, but there is factory brass availible for it. 2 years ago at the Linebaugh shoot in Cody someone brought an excellent "one up" of the 480Ach He made a 505 Achilles useing 480 Ruger brass. I don't remember all the details about it. If you want a factory cartridge the 50 GI might be an option. | |||
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Not yet My plan is to get a 9 1/2" 480 ruger, and cut it to 5". The 4" stub will be fit to a ruger super blackhawk, the cylinder cut back to 1.5" and bored to make it a 48 special. I don't want anyone thinking about re-chambering it down the line, and the shorter cylinder will lighten it up. It'll be a six shooter loaded to mild pressures. I figure with my scaled up keith swc 275 gr bullet @ 700-800 fps it'll be a great compact package.  Alas I haven't had the time or funds to pull it off, but one of these days. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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what would really interest me is a 512 special. | |||
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This thread I find rather comical... What are you going to get that is any different from a 300-grain bullet in a 45 Colt, loaded down to about 950 or so? Soften the bullet to Elmer's alloy and you have absolutely the same round, as I see it. Flame suit on, as I know where this is going! | |||
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If you've shot enough 480 rounds, you'll have cases with split necks. What better use for that brass than to aneal it, cut it back to 1.1" and have a "special" gun to fire it in. Sure, it doesn't make much sense, but would be fun. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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The thing that makes this cool is it is the largest you can go on a N frame. Doubles, I see your reality but wildcating is based more in the realm of fantasy  Lloyd, you can do a 512 special but it would still need to go on a larger frame. Paul, you are rich! you live in Alaska! Rich and money are two different things  I think living in such a beautiful land that is teaming with fish and game makes you a rich man. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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you get a bigger hole!!
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Yeah... a whole .025" on the inlet, probably somewhat the same on the exit, all things being equal. Sorry, just a lot of money to spend on something that has no real benefit if you already have a .475 or .480... Just soften the alloy and load it down! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lar45: There is 45 Cowboy Special cartridge that you could use for brass. It's basically a 45 Colt cut down to 45 ACP length, but there is factory brass availible for it. ______________________________________________ Wouldn't that simply be .45 Auto Rim brass? | |||
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How many here have both a 2506 and a 3006 or a 7 mag and a 338 mag. How about a 41 mag and a 45 colt. A 50 special would either have a 501 or probably a 512 bullet. thats .36 differnce. thats the differnce in .22250 compared to a 2506! YOu can argue all day that the 41 will kill anything the 44 will and the 44 will kill anything the 45 will and the 45 will kill anything the 475 will. Using that logic a 41 would take care of anything a 475 would. the big advantage to the .500 is that it will shoot heavier bullets at the same speed a 475 will and do it at lower pressures that are easier on the gun. Using your logic i guess i can sell everyone of my guns and just use a 44. It no doubt would take care of anything i hunt but theres better choises for most of my hunting. Next youll be telling me i dont need my 50ak because i allready have a 444 and a 4570. Another problem i have with your post is the soften the alloy approach. Sure you can make a 45 expand to 475 size with soft alloys but penetration of a defomed bullet is miseable and although it would work on deer sized animals i use my big five guns to hunt stuff that i sure wouldnt want a soft expanding bullet in. It is pretty much a given that penetration is the key to handgun lethality. If you want a bigger bullet a bigger caliber is a much better way to do it then expanding a smaller bullet. | |||
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As much as I like my 475,I would rather have a 50 Special in a single action.Push a 400 to 500 gr. bullet about 850 FPS. | |||
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Lloyd, a long time before the "really big bore" revolvers were ever even dreamed of, the 44 Magnum went to Africa and shot everything over there with maybe the exception of the lion, and I'm not sure that wasn't done... All that to say this: dead is dead, and bigger isn't necessarily better. And how did we go from handgun diameters to rifle diameters? That, sir, is comparing apples to kiwi fruits! Finally, a 475 Special is not going to be a hand cannon. It will be pretty amemic in comparison to the original cartridge, based on what I read in the above thread. If you want it, get it. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I am usualy an outlyer on these types of discussions. | |||
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If it gets close to 44 mag power with 350 grain bullets that won't be anything to sneeze at in a much smaller package. I like the idea of it. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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The 44 has never had a solid record for the biggest and baddest of game. It has worked, but I think you'll find most will agree that if you want solid performance on the biggest and baddest, the 475 and 500 have their place, and it is in those applications. As to downloading the 480 or 475. You give up accuracy when you do so. I imagine I've done as much loadwork on the 480 as anyone, and while it's scary accurate at 1000-1200 fps, the groups open up when you throttle it back to 700 fps. This is a gun for someone that just wants something different, and has some .475" molds, a pile of brass, and enjoys wildcats and working up loads as a hobby. Doesn't make sense to most, but it never was about making sense, it's about having fun. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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your wrong when it comes to handguns. Bigger is better. A handgun kills by putting a hole through an animal not by imparting shock. A bigger hole is allways better if pentration is the same. Adding a bunch of velocity is what means little in a handgun. Id feel much better armed with a 475 shooting a 400 lfn at 900 fps at an animal that weighted over 500 lbs then i would with a 44 mag with any load at any velocity. That bigger slug will penetrate deeper every time and break more big bone while its doing it. As to my comparison with rifes i think its more then fair. I hear all the time guys saying there 270 will kill anything an o6 will or a guy saying the same thing comparing 7 mags with 300 mags. Well a 22 to the brain will kill an animal too but for bigger game a 180 grain o6 will punch through more tissue then a comparable 150 grain 270 bullet will. Gramted when it comes to deer sized game it matters little. Ive shot enough deer pigs and black bear with 44s to fill a couple trucks and i find little differnce in killing power of 44s and 475s or 500s on animals that size but when animals get bigger then 500 lbs the big bores definately have there place. If we used your argument the old buffalo hunters would have been happy using 4440s or 45 colts and the big sharps rifles would never have been needed. But they found that heavy large caliber cast bullets killed much better. I chuckle all the time at people that claim that hunting with anything bigger then a 44 is a stunt. In all reality a 500 linebaugh using full power ammo is about on par with a black powder loaded 4570 and not to many people think a rifle at that level is an overkill for hunting. Same guys that balk at using the linebaugh or the big smiths dont think twice about going in the field to hunt a little whitetail or mule deer with there 300 mags. Now theres an overkill!! I would think that a 475 special would be about on par with any 44 mag load you could work up on effectiveness on animals that size and it would do it with less recoil and muzzle blast then a full power 44 mag. Kind of like comparing a 44 special to a 357 mag. The 357 recoils sharper and makes more noise but loaded to a 1000 fps with a 250 grain cast flat nosed bullet the 44 special is hands down a better hunting round. Sorry but bigger IS better, especially when it comes to handguns and the way they kill.
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+1 Lloyd! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Awesome post Lloyd! You are much smarter than that Dumb and Dumber character  If the 475 L is considered one of the best wheel gun carts of all time how can a "Special" size be bad? There is the arguably just as good 480 R size and Maximum size so why not? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Okay, guys, if bigger is better, riddle me this: Double the weight of the bullet and maintain the velocity, and energy is doubled. Double the velocity of the bullet and maintain the same weight, and energy is squared. You can talk all you want about penetration, but penetration is a function of two things: mass and velocity, otherwise stated as energy. Velocity plays a much bigger role than mass does, and we all know it. See the first two sentences above. The larger diameter bullet is by pure physics going to meet more resistance simply due to its larger frontal area, assuming we are talking SWCs or similar profiles. Therefore, you have to up the velocity, do you not? And isn't that the reason the Sharps bullets were shaped the way they were? To retain velocity while flying through the air so they maintained enough on impact to kill buffalo? You know as well as I do that the Buffalo Hunters of old sat on hilltops or rock outcroppings and shot slow, heavy bullets at very long ranges because it allowed them to kill the entire herds. From what I have read, they shot the entire herd, waited on them to drown in their own blood, then butchered the entire herd. Bullet construction is also very much a factor. Witness the Nosler HG Partitions. As good as they are, hard cast are better. That we agree on. Finally, if a handgun kills by punching a hole and not by imparting shock, as you state and your cheering section blithely head wags to, tell me why we don't all shoot pointed handgun bullets? Why do Whitworth, JWP, BFR and others scream and holler about full profile hard cast bullets? After all, a hole is a hole, is it not? And thanks for the new moniker, Mr. "Broomstick"... That is the nicest thing that comes to mind for someone whose moniker initials are BS. | |||
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Here we go again...... Actually, I don't have the energy or desire to get into this right now, but a hole is not a hole, but a bigger is always a better hole...... Besides, in a defensive situation Doubless, would you really want a 9mm over a .45 acp? Just curious. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth, there is a world of difference between a hunting situation and life and death. Incapacitation is not required to be instantaneous in a gunfight... And oh, by the way, which firearm and cartridge combination has the best record for one shot stops? It isn't the 45! I have nothing against big bore revolvers. I really don't. I just see them as a marketing ploy, and we are to the point where we are being offered six pound revolvers to handle the recoil of something that is well beyond the realm of reason, as I see it. It is nothing more than a personal preference. I respect your opinion, just don't like being told mine is wrong. I have said before: dead is dead, and you can't get any more dead than dead. | |||
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One shot stop data collected and interpreted by Marshall and Sanow? Not the most credible source of info IMO. They have been debunked long ago. I suspect the .44 mag would have soundly trounced the .357 in one-shot stops had it been used by as many people as the .357...... I agree that there is a difference, but I don't think it is as great as folks think. Humans are animals and flesh and blood like a deer. I still choose bigger in a defensive situation if possible. You're not doing yourself any favors using a 9mm if a .40 is just as concealable and shootable. JMHO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I mistyped... what I meant to say was that incapacitation is required to be instantaneous in a gunfight, not "is not required..." It is possible the .44 might have done better than the 357, I will give you that. But if memory serves, and I may be very wrong, the 10 MM was originally put to use, but it shot through folks and second shots were slow to happen because of muzzle flip. With the combination of the two, it was determined the round was too strong, and the result was the .40. And no question: the .40 is ballistically a much better stopper than a 9. | |||
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With a large bore and low velocity I would be concerned about penetration. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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If you ever attened one of the linebaugh seminars where 100s of differnt guns and loads get pentration tested you see the low velocity and heavy bullets just plain work. Its when you start pushing the envelope in velocity that pentration suffers unless you have a bullet like a punch bullet that will track absoultely straight and will not deform in the smallest ammount. Look at the failures in the old days with stopping rifles on dangerous game and you can nail most of them down to the fact that the bullet riveted. A cast bullet and thats what most big bore handgunners are use cast even out of the hardest alloy has a relitively low velocity threshold befor it will deform. If you make it harder you flirt with bullets fractureing. Ive personaly whitnessed on more then one account a 475 shooting a 400 plus grain cast bullet at 1200-1300fps outpenetrate factory 458 mag out of a rifle. Now im not about to say that the 475 is more effective on big game then a 458. that would be an insane statement but it does show that heavy and slow will get the job done. I also did shoot a 900 lb cow buffalo with a 475 handgun with a 420 lfn cast out of 5050 ww/lyno at about 1100 fps and took it dead center in the chest and the bullet came out the hind quarter. Not bad penetration in anyones book for a slow and heavy bullet. Ive seen simular kills with the 500 linebaugh too.
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Loyd I thought there had been some discussion that some of the 500 bore handguns were lacking in penetration on actual game animals, but the 475 was "plenty good". That is why when I went "more power" than the 44 Mag I went to the 475L. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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It depends mostly on bullet selection. A 500 shooting a 400 grain bullet has poor penetration while a 475 shooting a 400 has excellent pentration. take a 500 and shoot a 500 grain lfn at 1200 fps and things change. I wont say it will outpenetrate a 475 using say a 430 grain lfn but it will surely punch through any game animal alive. If i was going to hunt say elephant and needed max penetration i would probably opt for a 475 and use a punch bullet and load it to about 1400 fps but in all reality the same combo with a 500 using a 500 grain punch would probably do just as well. Using cast the alloy is just as important as the weight. You absolutely need an alloy that matches your velocity. What i use for the most part in the linebaughs is 5050 ww/linotype. Its hard enough to resist deforming in all but the most severe situations and is less brittle then linotype or water dropped bullets. It also has a small advantage over straight linotype in that a bullet will have a tad more weight. Combine that alloy with a 480-500 grain bullet with a lfn profile. Wfns have to much meplat in a bullet that big in diameter and wont pentrate as well. Push it to no more then 1300 fps. 1200 seems to be a sweet spot and the 500 will do some serious penetrating. Not near as well as a punch bullet will but there a bunch easier on the wallet. Now keep one thing in mind. Im not going to bs you and tell you ive shot a ton of really big animals with these loads and know for a fact how there going to do. The biggest ive shot with a 500 is cow buffalo. the three i shot averaged probably a 1000 lbs each. We have done some pretty extensive pentration testing on them and my buddy and I even did a bunch of testing for kelly shlepp with his punch bullets. Thing is that pentration testing isnt an exact science by a long shot but we found that usually its more of a severe test then actual flesh and blood animals are. | |||
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What would the velocity of the "475 Special" with a short barrel be? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have tested Garrett 44 Mag ammo, and Buffalo Bore 475 ammo and some 475 reloads with some custom solid copper bullets on elephant brain shots. I only shot the 44 Mag side brain. The 475's side and frontal brain. ALL penetrated plenty good. The Garrett lead bullets are the toughest "lead" bullets I have ever fired... The Buffalo Bore lost some weight/length but still penetrated plenty good into the brain. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Maybe some quick load guru can play with the numbers to get an estimate but usable case capacity should be pretty decent with the lighter bullets. I would say a 300 grain hard cast flat point with 65% meplat would be ideal or the 325 Speer gold dots. I talked to Mr Linebaugh about 4 years ago and I think he said he was loading his stuff to 1,100 fps. So what bullets and bullet weights can you get to 1,100 fps in the 1.165" case to max cylinder length. When I called and asked about the project he mentioned something about lengthening the cylinder on the N frame a bit. I'd have to ask what that length was. 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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wouldnt want to guess as ive never seen it done. But if a guy could push 400s to 900-1000 fps hed have a hell of a good game gun.
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I envy your oportunitys to really test bullets. Not many on the internet can lay claim to having shot one elephant let alone more then one.
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting Has anyone done a 475 Special? A 1.1ish 475 L/480R
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