Go to about 17 minutes and 45 second mark and watch Keith Warren take a bull Elk with a Glock 45 ACP shooting Grizzl Ammo 230 grain JHP. These bullets are designed and produced for Grizzly Ammo 1 1/2 percent antimony core and guilding metal jacket with 5 serations

http://keithwarren.net/?p=1512

Pretty impressive if you ask me!

That was awsome. You could see the dust on the first shot going all the way through.

Yep it was a good shot and he got away with it. However that is probably not going to be the norm. ELK are very large and tenacious animals and going after one with hollow point bullet from a 45ACP is not ideal.
If he wanted to handgun hunt a ELK, a 44 Mag loaded with a heavy hardcast bullet would have been a much responsible way to have done it.

David

That bullet is not a 'defense' bullet .The harder core and perhaps thicker jacket makes a substantial difference .That's like the old Speer 44 JSWHP that I used for deer ,lots of penetration.I think a 44 mag is still a better choice with a Barnes, A-Frame or Speer deep curl.

Not impressed.....with the gun, the shot or the shooter.

Any idea how big the high fenced area was that this bull was in?

It was an elk ranch hunt not a free ranging hunt. They might have omitted that from the video but I could have missed that as I didn't watch the whole thing.

Elk ranches have come under heavy criticisms here in Idaho with some of the critters escaping the high fence areas and with some of the diseases they carry infecting the wild elk.

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
Not impressed.....with the gun, the shot or the shooter.

the elk, or the ethical and humane treatment of the elk after the shot -- was too busy celebrating to make certain the elk was dead and cleanly taken...

t-boat -- tm ME.. showing off for the wrong reasons

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by billinthewild:
Not impressed.....with the gun, the shot or the shooter.

the elk, or the ethical and humane treatment of the elk after the shot -- was too busy celebrating to make certain the elk was dead and cleanly taken...

I was thinking the same thing I would have gotten up close and finshed the elk off. Seen to many so called dead critters get up and run a way.

But it was high fence hunt/shoot and he didn't have to worry about it running to far.

I'd like to know where the second shot hit. I wouldn't have had enough confidence in the 45 acp to try the first shot he took. (maybe he missed his spot, did I hear him curse a little under his breath?)

quote:

Originally posted by dvnv:
I'd like to know where the second shot hit. I wouldn't have had enough confidence in the 45 acp to try the first shot he took. (maybe he missed his spot, did I hear him curse a little under his breath?)

He did not miss the first shot, it is very clear in the video where that shot impacted. The bullet severed a main artery and reached the offside. It was obvious the bull was done with the first shot, the second just put the elk down sooner.

I was surprised at the effectiveness of the old war horse.

Had it been a scoped rifle in an "approved" caliber (approved by the Self-Righteous Internet Ethics Police), and reacted in that manner to the shots, everyone would be saying congratulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Had it been a scoped rifle in an "approved" caliber (approved by the Self-Righteous Internet Ethics Police), and reacted in that manner to the shots, everyone would be saying congratulations.

Not to mention how foolish it makes the whole "energy dump" nonsense look.

Since when are you supposed to run up on a downed animal ASAP? I was taught to let it lay down and bleed out. Pretty mandatory in archery, no? Maybe things have changed?

If it was a pig no one would have said shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Had it been a scoped rifle in an "approved" caliber (approved by the Self-Righteous Internet Ethics Police), and reacted in that manner to the shots, everyone would be saying congratulations.

Whitworth. Not to belabor the point. You and I have agreed many times in the past and I do respect your views, but one does not have to be "...Self-Righteous...etc" to have an opinion on appropriate caliber and method of take for an animal like an elk.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Had it been a scoped rifle in an "approved" caliber (approved by the Self-Righteous Internet Ethics Police), and reacted in that manner to the shots, everyone would be saying congratulations.

Well said!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Had it been a scoped rifle in an "approved" caliber (approved by the Self-Righteous Internet Ethics Police), and reacted in that manner to the shots, everyone would be saying congratulations.

Whitworth. Not to belabor the point. You and I have agreed many times in the past and I do respect your views, but one does not have to be "...Self-Righteous...etc" to have an opinion on appropriate caliber and method of take for an animal like an elk.

Bill, no offense was meant to you and I am personally a little surprised by your reaction to this video clip. My comment was more to the state of affairs on the internet with regards to hunting video clips folks post. So many tend to be critical, and in my humble opinion, many are critical for the sake of being critical.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Since when are you supposed to run up on a downed animal ASAP? I was taught to let it lay down and bleed out. Pretty mandatory in archery, no? Maybe things have changed?

If it was a pig no one would have said shit.

No use chaseing a wounded animal if you can't get another round into him but if you can shoot them again.

When you have a chance to finsh it off and put it down for good.

As some one "Else said the famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad don't shoot again you hit him hard the frist time."

I am a frim beliver in shooting tell they are not moving. If I get a chance I'll put a 2nd or 3rd arrow into them also if I can.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Since when are you supposed to run up on a downed animal ASAP? I was taught to let it lay down and bleed out. Pretty mandatory in archery, no? Maybe things have changed?

If it was a pig no one would have said shit.

No use chaseing a wounded animal if you can't get another round into him but if you can shoot them again.

When you have a chance to finsh it off and put it down for good.

As some one "Else said the famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad don't shoot again you hit him hard the frist time."

I am a frim beliver in shooting tell they are not moving. If I get a chance I'll put a 2nd or 3rd arrow into them also if I can.

He was done for good, so he met your criteria

Pretty amazing given how little the .429 Mag is capable of.

quote:

Originally posted by Boxhead:
Pretty amazing given how little the .429 Mag is capable of.

I'll be the first to say it would not be my first choice, but a clear case of placement be the most important factor -- obviously the bullet needs to penetrate well enough.

I just wish that we could look at a video like this and admire the good shot placement, the obviously good bullet performance, and not turn it into a "discussion" about ethics, minimal calibers, whatever. Obviously it worked out well, end of story. But again, not my first choice. And I'm not a big fan of the .429 Magnum, but I do like the .45 Colt!

[/QUOTE]Not to mention how foolish it makes the whole "energy dump" nonsense look.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm, would this also prove that the claims of hard cast, heavy bullets with wide meplates being more effective than jacketed hollow point bullets are nonsense? Or would that come under the category of "one instance doesn't prove anything"?

Anyway, it looks like Warren is a lot more impressed with himself than most people here are with him, including myself.

No matter what bullet or caliber is used if it destroys enough tissue to stop major funtions.

Heart,lungs, brain, spine ect it well work

quote:

Originally posted by McInnis:

Not to mention how foolish it makes the whole "energy dump" nonsense look.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm, would this also prove that the claims of hard cast, heavy bullets with wide meplates being more effective than jacketed hollow point bullets are nonsense? Or would that come under the category of "one instance doesn't prove anything"?

Anyway, it looks like Warren is a lot more impressed with himself than most people here are with him, including myself.[/QUOTE]



Hardcast, big meplated bullets tend to be more consistent -- that's why I like them. When a hollow-point works well, you can't argue with the results. The question is how will it work the next time......generally speaking.

It worked, what's the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Since when are you supposed to run up on a downed animal ASAP? I was taught to let it lay down and bleed out. Pretty mandatory in archery, no? Maybe things have changed?

If it was a pig no one would have said shit.

No use chaseing a wounded animal if you can't get another round into him but if you can shoot them again.

When you have a chance to finsh it off and put it down for good.

As some one "Else said the famous last words of a trophy fee gone bad don't shoot again you hit him hard the frist time."

I am a frim beliver in shooting tell they are not moving. If I get a chance I'll put a 2nd or 3rd arrow into them also if I can.

I certainly agree with second shots when they're appropriate. But if an animal goes down and stays down a waiting period before walking up on it is SOP around here. One of my close friends was very nearly injured by a whitetail last year when he forgot. I probably should have not said "shit" for that matter. It reads more aggressive than I intended.

IMO...I saw a video of a dedicated hunter who hunted hard for days with no luck, on the last day of the hunt he changes his game, chose to legally use a 45ACP w/ a specially designed hunting premium bullet from Grizzly, belly crawls, made 2 decent shots ethically killing the game, he celebrates his long difficult hunt & accomplished a longtime goal...What is wrong with that?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Boxhead:
Pretty amazing given how little the .429 Mag is capable of.

I'll be the first to say it would not be my first choice, but a clear case of placement be the most important factor -- obviously the bullet needs to penetrate well enough.

I just wish that we could look at a video like this and admire the good shot placement, the obviously good bullet performance, and not turn it into a "discussion" about ethics, minimal calibers, whatever. Obviously it worked out well, end of story. But again, not my first choice. And I'm not a big fan of the .429 Magnum, but I do like the .45 Colt!

You don't like the 44Mag?? Now that's a surprise!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Boxhead:
Pretty amazing given how little the .429 Mag is capable of.

I'll be the first to say it would not be my first choice, but a clear case of placement be the most important factor -- obviously the bullet needs to penetrate well enough.

I just wish that we could look at a video like this and admire the good shot placement, the obviously good bullet performance, and not turn it into a "discussion" about ethics, minimal calibers, whatever. Obviously it worked out well, end of story. But again, not my first choice. And I'm not a big fan of the .429 Magnum, but I do like the .45 Colt!

I posted this video after seeing it posted on another site. I'll be the first to admit that I was very surprised at how effective it worked on this elk.
I taken deer with the 45 ACP many years ago and the amount of penetration that I got just didn't give me the warm and fuzzies to use on elk.

I can't argue with how quickly the bull went down. I also recommend heavier bullet driven hard than the 45 ACP because in the hunting fields I don't want to be limited severly on shot angles.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
You don't like the 44Mag?? Now that's a surprise!!!!!!!!!

Are you funnin' or being sarcastic? I like the .41 mag better than the .429 mag even. I still have a few and hunt with them, but they aren't first choice.

is the skill needed to take an animal with a 45 acp pretty high? yeppers.. i've taken hogs with a 10mm, and its very challenging.

i, however, am appalled at a televised event of a dude over celebrating while the animal is still falling.

now, to get realistic .. his ACP load is likely not FAR off from a 45cal BP muzzleloader from 200 years ago, in terms of ballistics ...

and it worked......

Sure it takes skill and this guy exhibited some real skills as well as a little luck. It takes a lot of trigger time to hunt with a handgun successfully. Looks like this guy put in the time.

the results are in question .. bang.. bang.. flop .. great..

the actions of the loose nut behind the trigger bother me...

not a question of results... rather actions

45ACP would not be my first choice. However, 22Mag would not be 1st choice for many hunters of exotics and I did harvest a Scimitar Oryx with it.

The point we need to look at here is shot placement with just about anything in the right hands, with lots of practice and the correct bullet will simply amaze and defy belief.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by McInnis:

Not to mention how foolish it makes the whole "energy dump" nonsense look.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm, would this also prove that the claims of hard cast, heavy bullets with wide meplates being more effective than jacketed hollow point bullets are nonsense? Or would that come under the category of "one instance doesn't prove anything"?

Anyway, it looks like Warren is a lot more impressed with himself than most people here are with him, including myself.[/QUOTE]

My understanding of the matter is this bullet is made a bit harder and would therefore, more closely mimic the performance of a cast bullet.

Not my first choice for an elk cartridge, but this also blows the whole "minimum cartridge for a deer is the .44 Magnum" argument out the water.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
The real problem as far as I see it is all the greenhorns out there that now think they can cleanly kill elk with their handy 45acp.

They will give no thought to type of bullet, amount of practice and other conditioning involved in making a shot such as this.

I envision dozens of unnecessarily wounded majestic animals that deserved a quicker death.

Were I to chose a GLOCK to do this with it would have been a 10mm loaded the way 10mm USED TO BE LOADED. Also I would not use an expanding bullet. I would select something hardcast or solid copper.



Poor choice especially for something going out on the airwaves.

This is what amazes me. Call people out because and idiot might do something wrong is ridiculous. To call the 45 ACP a poor choice after see how fast the Elk went down defies logic

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:

quote:

Originally posted by CamoManJ:
IMO...I saw a video of a dedicated hunter who hunted hard for days with no luck, on the last day of the hunt he changes his game.............

If he was equipped to make a rifle shot, then it was either the outfitter or it was premeditated. If he was properly equipped and they were able to call the bull in to pistol range, then certainly at some point prior to that it was in rifle range and a much more ethical(my opinion) and responsible kill could have been made.

Cheers!

Seems that bow hunting isn't an ethecal way to hunt by your reasoning

The kill was clean, what was unethical about it??

I don't worry about idiots trying to emulate this at all. Idiots will do what idiots do, no matter what, as far as I am concerned. JMHO.

The whole problem is some folks put limitations on what they do and judge everybody else by those limitations.Only thing is it is pretty hard to argue with success.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
The whole problem is some folks put limitations on what they do and judge everybody else by those limitations.Only thing is it is pretty hard to argue with success.

Well said!!

No, go back and read everything I have written. Again, not my first choice, but under the circumstances it worked. And it didn't barely work, it worked quite convincingly. Why can't we just leave it at that? Why is everyone so damn critical?

Most folks who hunt with rifles consider the paper ballistics of the rounds we handgun hunters use to be inadequate. I don't put much stock in those opinions having experienced the effectiveness of our handguns on big game.