I am a pistol lover and always have been but what is enough gun?They just keep getting bigger and faster.What is enough gun in a pistol to take care of our needs in most circumstances in your opinion?So many fps and so big a bullet?

Just curious of your thoughts on "What is enough"?

Take care...Jayco

I'll assume that 'most circumstances' would not include hunting large game or bear defense. In that case, I would say that the old 45 ACP will do for just about anything. It's easy to shoot, accurate and powerful enough for self-defense and putting meat on the table; even deer if you shoot straight and get close (all legalities aside).

The 44 mag for me is too blasty, same with the 454 and bigger. The 45 Colt in a revolver is a great choice. I like it better than the 357, just because it's a lot easier on the ears. Again - easy to shoot (and shoot well), plenty of power for any normal use you can think of from self-defense, to shooting a rattler, or putting down a sick cow, shooting a deer, etc. Normal everyday working guns that you would wear like a pocketknife.

The big cannons are cool (I'd even like a 475 L someday), but truly not needed for 99% of what handguns are typically used for IMHO.

I like a 230 gr bullet at about 900 fps in the 45 ACP and I like a 250 gr bullet at about 1100 fps in my 45 Colt. I also like a 180 gr bullet at about 1200 fps in my 10mm - that's a performance you can take to the bank. None of these will beat you up, and will take care of business.

If you are talking about only owning one gun for everything from pers. def. to taking large game, a 4" .44mag is the best choice (IMO). With light JHP or soft lead swc, it is a very good defense round. Loaded w/ 300grLFP, it will take the largest game. A .45acp would be a better def. pistol, but not my 1st choice for def. agains bignastybiteythings. A 4" .44mag is concealable, shootable & can get it done from rabbits to moose & big bears. Nothing wrong w/ the .45colt either, it's just not available in as many 4" models. I carry a RBH, 4 5/8" .45colt as my backcountry piece. I like that big .45 caliber hole.

For target practice and small game, the 22 rf cannot be beat. For plinking, fun loading and small the medium sized game, the 357 mag is a great round. For big game hunting, I've settled on the 480 ruger launching a 400 gr cast bullet @ 1200 fps, if that isn't enough, it's not a job for handgun, IMHO. I've fired even more powerful and bigger handguns, but to me the 480 is the end of the road, and honestly when I'm not in practice, it is too much for me.

very good response Paul as I am sure you know my opion on this subject concerning the 480 when laoded as you sujest it is a very formiable weapon capabile of taking any game in North America

My idea of general purpose "never know what might happen or when" sort of pistol is the S&W M629 Mtn Gun. It's just compact enough for casual concealment if necessary and light enough to wear all day without giving it a moment's thought. A .429 240 SWC @ 900 will certainly do for defense and put some venison in the freezer last November. I've worn it for bear defense (loaded with Federal 300 grain Castcores) when long guns stayed home. It is a comprimise in almost every category, a jack of all trades and master of none, but it is there when I need it. If I lived in Alaska I might prefer a FA 454 or 475 or a Bowen five shot Bisley conversion but regretfully that is not a problem I have to solve just now. Good hunting!

Carried a S&W M58 in .41 mag (but with a 5" barrel) for years. Have shot elephant, Buffalo, Hyaena and a poacher with it. All one shot kills, so really cannot ask for more...That said I am just retiring the old .41 and replacing it with a S&W 329. I am not planning on handgun hunting anything with it, so it is purely back up when hunting and anti-personel in town.

Any handgun that will make 1.5 times major with a sectional density exceeding .180 and make use of a variety of solid and HP bullets will cover anything, and still be adaptable at reduced loads for defensive purposes.

A 240 grain .429 bullet need only clock 1094 fps to make 1.5 X Major, and a 255 .451 will do the same at 1029 fps. These, of course are representative of 44 Mag and 45 Colt capabilities with 4 inch bbls and fairly modest loads.

Surprisingly, this is also achieved by a 325 gr .475 bullet at only 808 fps...nearly a squib load in the 480 Ruger.

The S&W 500 shooting the 400 gr bullet at over 1600 FPS. I think this is enought gun for anything that can be shot with a handgun.

When I can get the animal to vaporize at the impact of the cast bullet,THAT is enough gun.

Sean

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
The S&W 500 shooting the 400 gr bullet at over 1600 FPS. I think this is enought gun for anything that can be shot with a handgun.

I have to agree.

I look at it this way; If I can't settle it with my .475 Linebaugh, I probably shouldn't have started that fight.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Carried a S&W M58 in .41 mag (but with a 5" barrel) for years. Have shot elephant, Buffalo, Hyaena and a poacher with it. All one shot kills, so really cannot ask for more...That said I am just retiring the old .41 and replacing it with a S&W 329. I am not planning on handgun hunting anything with it, so it is purely back up when hunting and anti-personel in town.

POACHER????????

i'm thinkin my 6".357 mag will stop anything in north america..............

It will surely kill anything in North America, but there is a big difference between killing and stopping.

I shoot my 10mm alot, a whole lot, It works for me. Not a powerful as a 44 mag+ but I can place shots fast and on the dot from about any position without any hesitation.

Ganyana...was that a 5" M57 or M58....the M58 was a fixed sight 4" gun...

I also prefer the .41 Magnum and would choose a 4" N-Frame S&W for an all-around gun. That said, if I could not reload and had to travel a great deal then I would go with the M29/629 .44 Magnum.

Bob

Hi RJM It is an M58. Had a 4" barrel some time I'm sure but now sports a 5" inch Barrel. (Gun was sent back to S&W to be rebarreled just before my mommy gave it to me as a 21st birthday present!). Also fitted a lanyard ring.

Tasco- Yup 1 x poacher. Bastard had just shot me through the right shoulder with his AK and I dropped my F.N. rifle when I got hit. He as only about five paces away and fired a 15 round burst at me - only one connected properly thank goodness. 7.62x39 millitary ball= 1 x failure to stop. 1x 220grn hard cast SWC .41 bullet= 1 shot stop.

At the time I always wore the handgun on my left side, with a lanyard over left shoulder, as most of my traveling was on a motor cycle (right hand throtle). Also tended to carry a rifle slung over my right shoulder. It was a good plan that night to have the holster on the left!

"Enough gun" depends on the circumstance. I generally pack a .357 Blackhawk with a 6" barrel mainly because I can hit what I am looking at out to a considerable distance for a pistol. Also I just like the bugger. Pinecones to coyotes dont stand a chance. Now were I going to choose a do everything gun it would probably be a 4" barreled 44mag. I doubt that I could get the accuracy of my Blackhawk because of the shorter barrel but would have considerable more horespower for something or someone that was up close and dangerous.
The Blackhawk is a wonderful pistol but its drawbacks are single action its heavy and the longer barrel takes a bit longer to get into play fast.
When archery hunting I pack a little .380 auto because its light and compact. I suppose if I wound up nose to nose with an hornery black bear I would be wishing for the biggest cannon available. Cougars are my main concern though and figure the .380 would ruin Mr Cougars day bigtime if he decided my hind end looked good to tooth on.
My conclusion is the a 44 mag is "enough" pisol. If a person needs more than that then you need a rifle.

I disagree completely with your blanket assessment on what is needed, but then that is what makes this board so interesting.

I think a 44 mag. with a cast 300 gn bullet at 1200 fps would cover all the bases........JJ

The rifle guys always say something like “as big as you can handle and still shoot accuratelyâ€. I think this, with the added requirement “and still convenient enough that you WILL carry it†about sums it up for me.

You did not specify what it will be used for, I think self defense is pretty well taken care of by .357 magnum in revolver or 40 S&W, 45 ACP or GAP in auto. This leaves 38+P and 9MM as the ones on the cusp to argue over, but this is the handgun hunting forum.

I personally feel the recent development of so many calibers above 44 mag. is more then just fancy marketing. People have been buying Rugers for years so they could “hop-up†the 44 just a little more. I am one of those who think this is a legitimate need. In my book, for most lower 48 states big game the 44 mag is on the edge of what one should consider. Not that somebody can’t kill deer with a 357 or 380. Just my opinion, but if one can shoot a 480 or 500 well, I would not recommend the 44 mag be considered as an option for them, unless cost is a major concern.

I use a S&W 629 6 inch barrel in 44mag loaded with 24,5gr of H110 to 1400 f/s with 240gr copper plated cast bullets for wild boar in thick cover. For me it is fine because I can handle it easily in double action (6 aimed shots in about 5 seconds) but I think this is not the type of handgun hunting you think of.
My gunsmith some years ago shot a 550lb brown bear with a 1911A1 with commercially available 230 FMJ ammo. He needed one shot placed between the eyes, the distance was 40 yards. Shooting was done on request of the safari park where the bear lived and was suspected of rabies.
I would not have tried but he is a great shot and obviously knew what he was doing.
The point seems to be that shot placement is crucial and I think you may be reasonably successfull with calibers starting in the 9mm class when you know where to shoot and are able to do so.

I prefer my single shots...my 45 Winchester Mag is a nice carry gun. Has a 4x scope and my new hunting load is the Hornady 300 gr XTP with 20 grains of 2400. I haven't clocked the load yet with my chrony, but my calc shows it should be around 1300 fps. Its a 10" barrel so its not too heavy and it points just like a finger with the Herret wood grips.

Admittedly, I cannot get the rapid fire of a wheel-gun...but I am waiting for the right price on an LAR Grizzly...

Darrell

Unless you plan to hunt in Jurassic Park the old .45 Colt will handle any thing in North America with the right bullet and modern power loads. Thes loads are to be used in Rugers, T.C. and F.A. only. You can launch a .325 Grn hard cast only 200 fps slower than the .454 Casul, whle not haveing the muzzle blast, and recoil it has. Now as for Jurasic Park you couldnt go wrong with a .475 Linebaugh.Good hunting. Charlie

1st choice Raging Bull 454 can shoot 45LC or 454.

2nd choice Dan Wesson 44mag.

3rd choice Kimber 45acp (but not Deer legal in Kansas)

4th choice Dan Wesson 357mag. I shot 38spc and 357mag untill I was introduced to the 44mag.

All small game 10" Dan Wesson 22lr still looking for a DW in 22mag.

If I could only own one handgun it would be the 44mag

I have a 480 SRH and cant complain...

Although I have a .454,I am still lusting for a BFR in 45-70.Why?Just to have one I guess and what it is capable of.

As the Lay's potatoe chip commercial says-You can't have just one Big Bore Pistol.

Jayco

It all depends on where you live, and what you do !!! Me ? I had a 375 JDJ TC, for south Ga it was way over the top, so I moved down abit and went with the 44 mag TC, mostly shoot 44 spl for plinking and small hunting but can move up to big 44 mag boomers 310 gr bullets. Very versatile

I'd have a three gun battery for everything: .22 LR auto or revolver for small game, .44 Magnum 4" revolver for hunting / self defense and .45 ACP 1911 auto for "city" carry. I keep switching just for the novelty, heavy .45 Colt loads in Redhawk, 7-30 Waters in 14 inch Contender, .44 Magnum in 6" Revolver for hunting only and 10" Contender for heavier items. Fact is, a good jacketed flat nose .45 ACP will do for hunting and self-defense, all at 800 fps and 230 grains. I'd pick one gun and spend just as much money on reloading equipment and components. A bullet catcher for the recovered lead and you can shoot centerfire for the cost of .22 LRs.

Have tried the .500 S&W, .475 Linebaugh, .454 casull and then got one of the .480 Ruger super Redhawks and that is the one for me.

I shoot a Dan Wesson .44 mag pushing a 320 gr hard cast at about 1350 fps, according to the Hodgdon manual. 22 gr H110. I have been told this load is sufficient to penetrate an elk end to end. I hope to find out this season. I chose this gun and round with Alaska in mind. I can't kill what I can't hit, and I'm not sure how well I can shoot a larger caliber handgun. Also for defense this 44 is managable enough even with these heavy loads for fairly quick follow up shots.

I would think the answer to your question about handguns, "What is Enough?" would be whatever you shoot the best, kills what you hunt and what you LIKE the best.

There are far too many makes, models and calibers out there to debate what's "best" because what is best for one thing may not be the best for another.

In the end, what is enough, is what it is that you use the handgun for. A S&W K-22 might be enough if all you shoot are rabbits, squirrels and snakes. A .357 or .44 magnum may be enough for you for all of the above with deer and hogs added in.

What handgun is enough will be the one you use for what you do.

TH

I have taken about 40 deer with handguns and that is all I use after bow season ends. The top gun is the .44 so far. I have the BFR 45-70 and .475 also, plus a .45 Vaquero. All have taken deer. The one I love to hunt with the most is the 45-70. Yes, it is a BIG gun but with a sling, it is still far easier to carry then any rifle. I have made a bunch of molds for the .475 and have put over 1000 rounds through it so far and it will be my starting gun this season. I have a hard time deciding which one to take any given day. I have faith in every one.
I keep hearing things like, "too hard to carry." Remember, this is your primary hunting gun, not a back up gun. I never hear guys complain about carrying a large rifle! A large handgun in a shoulder holster or on a sling is still nicer then a rifle. The same guys complaining about a big gun are the same ones that have a 12" bowie knife strapped on, a shotgun over one shoulder and a rifle over the other!

A friend of mine carry’s a 357 on his hip, a 300 win short mag in his hand and a 7mm or 30-30 over his shoulder. He also carry’s at least 1 box full of shells for each gun when he goes deer hunting. This method seems to work for him, but I would have too much trouble trying to figure out which to shoot when the need arises.

Most of the time I will either carry a pistol or a rifle but not both and only enough extra shells to reload it once.

If I were going to carry a pistol for self defense it would be my Ruger SP 101 357 with a 2.25 inch barrel.

I still say the 44mag is enough gun to kill any game that I have hunted in Kansas.
The gun left home because it is too long or heavy does you no good. Been there done that.

Good luck on your choice.

Swede, thats funny! I can picture him busting through brush! I was joking, never expected to hear it being done.
When I was a varmint hunter I always had 3 guns in the car. A .44 for chucks out to 100 yd's, a .222 for up to 300 and from there to 600 yd's I had a .220 swift. But I never carried more then one while walking.
I can understand a big handgun being a burden in a hip holster. I never carry one that way, too hard on the back and hips.

For game? .41, .44 Magnum or the .45 LC. I don't need anything bigger. In fact, the .41 Magnum works for me. One thing I usually try to accomplish when developing a handgun hunting load is to achieve a minimum kinetic energy of 1000 Ft/lbs. Naturally, proper bullet selection is necessary.

With a strong long barrelled Ruger SA, the .357 Magnum can get you close if you use the proper powder. That doesn't mean anything that says magnum, it means finding the powder that will deliver maximum energy without overfilling the case, or being overpressure. AA#9 is one of the best examples and Accurate does provide 40,000 CUP level handloads, rather than the 35,000 PSI data from recent years by others. Ramshot Enforcer looks like a prime candidate also and I have used Blue Dot as well, but it won't equal the performance of #9. Hodgdon, likewise publishes higher pressure data. Which, BTW was reduced from it's original pressure rating in the 80's of 46,000 CUP. It is actually difficult to achieve 46,000 CUP in the .357 unless you are using the wrong/too fast powder. Many did with powders like Unique and others and finally SAAMI just reduced the pressure rating. 40,000 CUP with a powder like #9 with a 158 gr. softpoint fired from a strong revolver, will get more things done than some care to admit and probably haven't done. Want heavier? go to 180 gr. bullets like the Hornady XTP which can be loaded to achieve 850 Ft/lbs or slightly higher. That is why I never say never when someone asks about taking Whitetail with the .357 magnum. It all depends on the load and I don't recommend factory ammo for this.

I have seen guys at the range preparing to go on a hunt that were not very accurate, even with the .44 Magnum at 25 yards. Why? because they don't shoot 'em enough. So, I have never really had a desire for anything beyond what a .41, .44 or .45 LC is actually capable of. Some of the bigger revovers make sense for bigger game if you feel you need the additional power, but the cost to shoot them to practice with an equivelant hunting load, does not. So how proficient are the other 98% of guys that have them? It does not take a 300 gr. bullet to drop a whitetail. A 210/220 gr. JHP/JSP leaving the muzzle of a .41 Magnum at 1500 FPS generates 1049/1099 Ft/lbs of muzzle energy. If you shoot heavier bullets at lower velocity you are essentially replicating the same energy levels with a bullet of higher sectional density. You will not find many factory laoded .44 Magnum cartridges that will achieve 1000 Ft/lbs of energy until you shell out the money for a premium load, or your barrel is 7.5" or longer. .45 LC requires handloading to begin with. With handloads, the .44 Magnum will outpower the .41, but get someone to shoot a .44 loaded to an equal kinetic energy level with a guy that knows how to shoot the .41 at the same kinetic energy level and things get interesting. Like I said, the .41 Magnum works for me and I mostly shoot hunting equivelant velocity loads.

I live in maybe the most heavily populated Whitetail deer county in the United States and all sorts of handloads get kicked around, so I have taken the best from all of them. I use a 220 gr. Sierra Tournament Master that will expand if bone is struck and I load it to 1500 FPS for 1100 Ft/lbs of energy. When someone finds something that will kill a whitetail any quicker or any deader . . .

Why are the big magnums poorer stoppers against human aggressors? Because they develop excessive energy for the performance of the bullet in most cases and travel through the target before expansion is adequate unless a vital organ has been struck.

For defense cartridges the rule of thumb drops to 500 Ft/lbs. +/- 50. Check any of the best stoppers and you will find they have one thing in common. 500 Ft/lbs of KE with a good JHP design that both penetrates and expands. Not just one or the other. Good 9mm +P 124 gr. JHP loads are available that achieve 450 Ft/lbs even a little better. The best stoppers in .357 SIG and the .40 S&W hover around 500 Ft/Lbs. There are 230 gr. JHP loads in .45 ACP that are deadly and don't generate 500 Ft/Lbs, but they are around 400. My load equals the best of them and does generate 500 Ft/lbs, well actually 497. From the factory it is the 185 gr. +P Golden Saber and if you believe you need a 230 gr. JHP for reasons of penetration you have read too much from Morgue Monsters or ammo brochures and not enough about the benefits of expansion with penetration. Start talking about home or self defense and inevitably someone will bring up autoglass penetration, but I can't think of many examples where a homebreaker used his car to break through the front door.

What to do if you own only revolvers? Even the 10mm for that matter. Load down! I won't disagree completely with the multiples of major theory because theory is what it is. What is evidence? The 125 gr. JHP from a 4" .357 Magnum @ 1350-1400 FPS from a 4" revolver that has yet to be bested as a combat cartridge. KE? 506-544 Ft/lbs. So you have a 4" .41 Magnum and need to use it for defense? Sierra 170 gr. JHP loaded to 1150 FPS, +/-. Looks kinda like the best stopper in .40 S&W: the 165 gr. Golden Saber. How about a .44 Magnum? 200/210 gr. Gold Dot JHP loaded to 1061/1036 FPS or slightly higher depending on the bullet. The 200 gr. .44 is actually designed for the .44 Special and 1061 FPS isn't out of the realm of performance.

KLN, thank you for a great post. I agree with you 100%. I would never grab my .475 if someone was breaking into my house. It would poke holes through the bad guy and my house and car. I would most likely grab my .22 auto since it is the smallest gun I own, or the shotgun. For hunting I don't like anything smaller then the .41.

i think enough gun is that one captain kirk uses...although i dont care for that "stun" setting

i think the best ballance of cool factor, accuracy, "enough gun" and the dirty harry quotient goes to the 475 linebaugh

Enough gun is equal to what you can handle.
A well place shot with a lesser caliber is always better than a poor shot with a larger one.
Another thought?
You can always "download a more powerful caliber"