I'll second the vote for a Mountain Gun in .41, .44, or .45Colt flavor.

Mine usually gets loaded with a 240gr lswc and 10.0 gr Unique, but I know I can pep things up if the need arises.

In my opinion there is a BIG difference between a "hunting hangun" and a "protection handgun".

For hunting, the sky is the limit, both in size and power. What ever you can shoot well is good.

However for protection, I think these "super" revolvers are too much of a good thing.

I think a S&W 44 Mag double action, 4 " bbl with heavy cast loads is the best protection handgun out there.
It is powerful enough to bust the skull on even a cape buff [or side brain on a cow elephant, did not test frontal brain], much less any other animal, and can be shot with one hand if necessary without injury. It is very quick to reload, especially with speed loaders.
It is light and handy enough to be carried on your person 100% of the time.
It is the best for protection.

For hunting a FA in 454 or 475 is superior. I have a FA 475, and have shot several 454's. With full power loads they are too much to handle for protection IMHO. On my recent Idaho bear hunt when in camp, I had Buffalo Bore 420 grain cast bullets at 983 fps [chronoed in my 6" FA] their light load, in my revolver. This is a load that kicks about like a 44 mag, and can be shot with one hand without injury.
When I went to hunt, in the stand, I used 400 gr SP BB full power loads.

I would have to agree with above mentioned posts that my 6" Dan Wesson in 41 Mag with Handloads would be my choice of a 1 size fits all firearm

Dan
The only thing I have agains the 41 mag as an allround woods carry gun is the fact that hyou cannot get Speer shot shells for it.
I used to feel the same way aboiut the 45 Colt, but Speer makes them now]
I have found the shot shells SO usefull that I consider them MANDATORY to have at ALL times.

Well NE...I'm in the .41 Camp..shotshells or no.... Maybe if we call Allan he will get Speer to bring out some shotcups in .41 Magnum. It worked two years ago when I "suggested" that a Gold Dot hollowpoint in .41 Magnum be brought out.

Bob...your partner.

Bob
I have an inquiry into Speer right now trying to get them to load shotshells in the 480 Ruger/475.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Bob
I have an inquiry into Speer right now trying to get them to load shotshells in the 480 Ruger/475.

..well since you are asking, ask for some in .41 also....

Bob

I snould hear from them in a day or two. I will put the 41 shotshell bug in their ear.

Enough for what? I really can't shoot anything ACCURATELY larger than a 44 with heavy loads. My current loads are 300gr LBT WFNGC over 21 gr WW296, CCI 350 and a 240gr XTP over 24gr WW296, CCI 350. Practice loads are 240gr cast over 10gr. Unique, CCI 300. In the past I, and in some cases clients, used various jacketed bullets in 240gr. and some cast Keith style all at about 1200 to 1400 fps. Platforms I've used and/or currently use: Ruger Super Black Hawks in 4.5" & 7.5", 7.5" Hunter model with 2X scope and a Super Red Hawk.

My experience with these has been limited though might prove of interest: Current 300gr load out of 4.5": Bull moose with the 300gr load at 60 yards first two shots completely penitrated ribcage, third shot at 20 yds. broke both shoulders, recovered under hide off-side shoulder. (animal dropped at 3rd shot)

Keith style in a 7.5", 2 cow elk and a raghorn bull, all follow-up shots on animals hit poorly with clients rifle. Shoulders broken and/or complete penitration out to 50 yds or so. Animals did not drop at shot but dropped within a minute.

Black bear, most of these were killed over dogs 20+ years ago, by clients with various Rugers & Smiths. Of those shot with cast bullets, as I recall all were complete pass throughs, none of the bears dropped at the shot (except for a couple of head shots), something to think about. Black bear with 240gr. jacketed of various makes, few were pass throughs but several dropped at shot. Shot placement was critial in every case. Head, heart and lung shots result in quick death, everything else is crap. I haven't shot or seen shot enough "spot and stalk" bears with handguns to make any kind of generallizations. Based on what I've seen a 250gr Partition might be the best choise for bear in a hunting and "protection" roll since in my experience unless you wack them in the head bears are not likely to drop at the shot every time.

Mule deer and whitetail, does mostly for meat so shoulder shots were avoided. Cast bullets work fine, pass through every time. Doe runs 25 to 100 yds. Jacketed bullets generally drop the doe in her tracks. Personally I would prefer 240gr jacketed bullets for deer and antelope based on my prior experiences. In open country cast vs. jackleted might not make a difference but I've had to drag a couple of whitetail does out of brush choked creek bottoms and that sucks. The 240gr XTP's and such work well but again the 250 Partition might be the end all and be all here.

I don't like using my 44's for small game such as grouse, legal here in Montana. Head shots are fine but too much noise, body shots, gack! I prefer a 22 LR with low velocity loads for grouse. I tried shotshells but the birds get into the tree branches and well that didn't work out as well as with the 22LR. For finishing head shots on deer and antelope a 22LR works better than a 44, again the "messiness" factor on head shots.

wow now thats an impressive list of animals to shoot with a .41!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Carried a S&W M58 in .41 mag (but with a 5" barrel) for years. Have shot elephant, Buffalo, Hyaena and a poacher with it. All one shot kills, so really cannot ask for more...That said I am just retiring the old .41 and replacing it with a S&W 329. I am not planning on handgun hunting anything with it, so it is purely back up when hunting and anti-personel in town.

While youse guys are at it, how about mentioning .510 shot cups Thanks

HunterMontana: Nice to hear that someone else has had better stops with JHPs...sometimes thought I might be the only one. I also like partitions...accurate, fly well, hit hard...kind of expensive though. dvnv

The shotshell consideration is a good one. I bought a 3" Ruger SP-101 in .357 Magnum to carry in snake environs, personal protection and general use. If I only owned the .41 Magnum, I would shoot shotshells through it and in the absence of capsules from SPEER, you can still make them using wads from several different materials to seperate the powder charge from the shot and crimp the casemouth over a plastic disc to hold the shot in place. Small charges of powder are the norm and you can tailor the shot to your own requirements.

I totally agree that "Enough Gun" is the one that you can shoot accurately and heavily constructed Magnum JHP's will work on deer.

Montana Hunter and dvnv
I have shot deer with 240 Hollow points, 240 Soft points and 240 cast bullets.
I agree the jacketed bullets are a better choice for that sized game.
I have also killed quite a few deer with a Ruger 44 Mag Deerstalker [the old model, it was my first deer rifle]. Back in those days the 240 grainers was where it was at.
That 44 killed deer out to 125 yards as well as ANY rifle I have ever used.
My Niece killed a pig @ 250 to 275 with my Trapper 44 Winchester with factory 250 Nosler Partitions. It was Bang, Flop. The pig never moved. Hit behind the shoulder complete pass through.
My longest shot with a pistol [6.5" S&W] was on a good buck at 85 yards with a Speer 240 SP over 24 grains of H-110. The deer jumped foward about 8 feet and snowplowed into the fround. The bullet was recovered against the skin on the off side, perfectly expanded. That is the only 44 bullet I have recovered from a deer
The 44 Mag, in rifle or revolver is a great hunting calibre.

Dusty
Can you elaborate on your previous post?
I appreciate you quoting me, but do you agree or disagree?

Smith @ Wesson 629 Classic, 240gr XTP, 1550fps will kill anything that walks in north america, i think thats enough.

Re: the _captain

"I like a 250 grain bullet at about 1100 fps in my 45 Colt"

Captain:
Will you please share with me your reloading data for this load.

Thanks

If you can shoot and reload a 6" 44 mag will do it all...if not, you also need a S&W 22 LR kit gun or a K22 or a ruger or a colt or a High Standard or your choice of .22lr and use it to learn how to shoot...then a 6" 44 Mag will do it all shooting a 250 gr Keith SWC places in the right spot.

my question is the same - almost. Why all the big bores? I have owned 2 Casulls an thorougly enjoyed the accuracy and loved the recoil, punishing though it be. I tend to think that their has to be a happy medium that would involve ballastics and shot timing. You would have to get off the shots as fast as needed and be accurate and still do the job. I personally have this affair with my Bisley .45Colt 4 5/8 with a Belt Mtn base pin, Lett Stag grips(fitted by me) and a trigger/hammer job that is just plain unexplainable I can either have it loaded up for 2 legged critters or the biggest of the 4 legs. Smith in a 41mag or a 45 colt Mtn gun or the famous 44 magnum-owned most of em a time or two and still do. My curiosity is still on the .460 Smith for range shots but not likely to happen. My use of handguns is just to get to my rifle anyways so bigger is not better in this case and it will do. I shoot my own loaded up hardcast right around 1200fps. and for my wife around 950-1000fps hope that helps.

I've never been a fan of excessive handgun recoil. And as I've gotten older my body tolerates it less and less.

Have a 6" FA in .454 Casull thats probably overkill for even elk. With hot .45 colt loads with 260 LBT's (on deer) and 323/335 gr LBT's at 1100 fps on elk I've yet to find a bullet. They are in the hillside someplace.

My S&W 696 a 3" 5 shot L framed .44 spcl with 245 Keith #429421 loads over 7.5 of Unique for 900 fps and change kills deer just fine.

Can't see the need for much more.

Fn in MT

Can anyone reading this post tell me where to buy the Keith 250 gr. (.45) SWC cast bullets? They will be used in my .45 Blackhawk with 5 1/2" barrel. Posters on this forum seem to be divided between the 250 Keith and the XTP. The XTP loads produce good groups in my .45 with the loads developed so far. Also, anyone having load data that will push the 250 XTP or Keith at about 1200 fps. in a 5 1/2" barrel please let me know.

Does anyone know about how much kinetic energy transferred is considered the minimum to take a whitetail? In other words, Ft. lbs. I have worked up a 200 gr. cast SWC load that will cloverleaf at 25 yds. but afraid it does not have enough ass to take a whitetail. However, I have not chronographed it to determine ballistics. I figure it's more of a practice load -- 10gr. of SR 4756 inside Starline Brass.

All info provided so far has helped and I appreciate it. Thanks.

Mt. Baldy has your bullet or you might try BeartoothBullets

Ditto on Beartooth......good slugs and nice people to deal with.

I have a friend who casts me the 270 gr Keith style from an RCBS mould in .452" They work VERY well even at 900 fps on deer.

The SWC design you have loaded is that a target type semi wadcutter?? The NOSE is what does the work on game on a lead slug. The usual target type SWC has a small nose, I would not use it for deer.

I'd think that on yor smallish TX whitetails most any 250 gr SWC at 850-900 at the muzzle would get the job done. They are 10" thick at the heart/lung area, not a lot of penetration required to pop both lungs.

I routinely kill road hit muleys with my .357 SIG duty gun pretty easily. I've never found ANY deer to be tough to kill. Stick a slug through both lungs and they are soon DEAD.
I just don't understand all the stuff you read here of guys agonizing over having ENOUGH gun for deer.

FN

Re: FN in Montana

Yes, the cast SWC I loaded is of the target type. I have an answer in the preceding post as to where I can buy Keith type SWC cast hunting bullets. I'll make an order tonight.

Leadhead Bullets makes an excellent Keith bullet and it is very reasonably priced. I just received 1000 of thise .41 caliber 230 Keiths and theye shoot very well.

Bob

Here you go.



http://www.proshootpro.com/

I would grab my .475 if it was the first firearm I could get my hands on if the need arose. I did some testing on brick masonry walls I found at a local dump. The .475 would just pulverize the first section set up, but would not damage the second section of wall. So, based on my primative testing, it appears one could shoot through a wall either into or out from the house, but not get a bullet through both sides of a brick veneer house.

I answered that question for myself long ago. After using a .454 Casull and .375JDJ for some years I decided a plain vanilla .44 Magnum would do anything I wanted to do with a handgun. I presently use a S&W Classic DX and Ruger Super Blackhawk for my handgun hunting. Open sights on both and shooting cast bullets of either Kieth style or LBTs.