quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
a Lead Sled and sacks of Lead still attached to the rifle?"
Bubba, "Of course I do, don't you know nuthin `bout huntin BIG Game???"

this is generally called "projection" .. since you have no concept of shooting big bores and that people CAN shoot them without aids, you project your own mental short cut, and tell us how YOU would do it.

quote:

I don't "Shoot Chronographs" anymore. I determined a l-o-n-g time ago that was a complete waste of time and effort.

then I expect you'll never make another post on the subject

quote:

I do appreciate "all the invites" to come shoot(instead of fire) the BIG Bores. I'll have to take a Rain Check on it though.

shoot... stand up on your back legs, pick up a 70 to 120# recoiling rifle and shoot. Since you feel this is beyound you, why don't you give it a rest

quote:

If I ever get a Lobotomy though, I'll look you all up.

scope a 375 rum with a 1" eye relief scope.. and shoot it from the bench

quote:

The current firearms I have with any appreciable Free Recoil don't compare in any way at all to the cannons you all are firing

sporting rifles, DGRs... and yeah, from the under .358 crowd they may look like cannons

quote:

But, I actually "shoot" them.

this is shooting a big bore -- will take a couple minutes for it to download
http://www.weaponsmith.com/mov-550-exp.html

please note, it is possible to shoot a rifle without it sitting on a bench, under sandbags... Hotcore, PICK YOUR RIFLES UP

jeffe

So, let's be clear
you don't shoot big bores
you have NO CLUE as to what I am telling you
and you think shooting big bores requires or equates to a lobotomy.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
...this is generally called "projection" .. since you have no concept of shooting big bores and that people CAN shoot them without aids, you project your own mental short cut, and tell us how YOU would do it.

This is called not knowing "who" you are attempting to run down. I never said I don't have experience "shooting" the BIG Boring rifles. I just don't have any right now.

quote:

then I expect you'll never make another post on the subject

Then your expectations would be "Wrong AGAIN!"

quote:

shoot... stand up on your back legs, pick up a 70 to 120# recoiling rifle and shoot. Since you feel this is beyound you, why don't you give it a rest

Naw, way tooooo much fun seeing how the Band of Bubbas actually use their BIG Bores.

quote:

scope a 375 rum with a 1" eye relief scope.. and shoot it from the bench

Is that what happened to you?

quote:

The current firearms I have with any appreciable Free Recoil don't compare in any way at all to the cannons you all are firing.

Yes, never said I've not had BIG Boring rifles.

quote:

please note, it is possible to shoot a rifle without it sitting on a bench, under sandbags... Hotcore, PICK YOUR RIFLES UP

Your impression of my "Shooting" is far different from reality. But I can understand what has addled your brain.

quote:

So, let's be clear
you don't shoot big bores
you have NO CLUE as to what I am telling you

Once again, your delusions of reality tend to make discussing the issue difficult - but FUNNY!

Band of Bubbas MI:
4. Talking to a Wyoming Outfitter(WO):
Bubba, "You sure you have HUGE Elk in your area?"
WO, "Sure we do. You just have to be willing to go back in far enough and be able to take shots more than 25yds if needed."
Bubba, "No problemo on the l-o-n-g shots, I'll be a usin my good ole trusty 750H&H. Will your horses be able to pull a cart?"
WO, "Pull a cart? HA, some of the terrain is pretty steep, but they can haul back all the Elk meat you kill."
Bubba, "Aaaah, no that isn't what I mean. Huuummm, do you have any Clydesdales?"
WO, "Clydesdales? No. I'm not pulling a Beer Wagon afield. Why do you ask?"
Bubba, "Well, I have to carry so much Lead for my Lead Sled/750H&H to be able to fire it that it has broken-down many normal horses!"

Brief interlude:

What I was getting at in my earlier post was that all scopes should be designed to take the reverse "lurch" when the round is fired; the rifle travels backward, the scope resists and is pulled along anyway.

What concerns me is whether or not they are able to take the reverse force when the rifle isn't allowed to go through its full recoil motion. If the scope normally slows down in say 1/2 second, the forces that it is subjected to are a lot bigger if it has to stop within 1/10 of a second.

So, does anyone know whether scopes are designed to take the full recoil impulse in both directions?

thanks,
irwin

Irwin -

The destructive force on the scope is related to its acceleration. Since the scope is rigidly attached to the gun, their accelerations are the same.

By adding lead to the sled, you are effectively increasing the gun's mass, which will slow down its acceleration and, thus, the destructive force on the scope.

It sounds like a bit of big bore biased is being posted here. I don’t own a lead sled but am considering purchasing one. I’ve shot several hundred rounds through various .375, .416, & .458 caliber rifles. Of all the rounds fired the only ones shot from the bench were to sight in the rifle. Then it’s to field positions for practice, sitting, standing etc.

I’ve just recently purchased a .505 Gibbs and the recoil is significantly greater than that of my .458 Lott. I am doing all of the chronograph work from the standing position. After a load is developed I’ll go to the bench to sight in the scope and check the irons. I’m seriously considering buying a lead sled for this application. As Jeffe and others have stated recoil in the 100 ft-lb range can be debilitating. If you have never fired a rifle of this magnitude you have no concept of what it is like.

There are all different kinds of shooting disciplines and let me assure you that big bore rifles are one unto themselves, to each his own. Criticism of a big bore enthusiast for using a led sled to sight in their rifles is like criticizing a varmint shooter for using a bench to sight in theirs. Hunting with a sled, I’ve never heard of that one, but I’ve heard of guys shooting animals off of bench rests!

I’ve never played football so I don’t criticize the players for wearing helmets either. If you have never fired a true big bore than you have absolutely zero point of reference.

Guys, Hot Core is a trollish sack of hot air that just like to stir up crap. Since he's blathering on about something about which he has no clue it's probably best to just ignore him other than perhaps a sending a few choice insults back his way.............DJ

Hotcore,
whatever .. because you would use this device in that fashion is amusing... the rest of the post is annoying... sort of like a 'sketer biting you on a tush... not much of a bother, just annoying


you views on the useful range of a bigbore demonstrate you being a rank tyro in the matter.

when you feel like acting like an adult, why don't you send me a pm.. you can shoot big bore

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
...this is generally called "projection" .. since you have no concept of shooting big bores and that people CAN shoot them without aids, you project your own mental short cut, and tell us how YOU would do it.

This is called not knowing "who" you are attempting to run down. I never said I don't have experience "shooting" the BIG Boring rifles. I just don't have any right now.

quote:

then I expect you'll never make another post on the subject

Then your expectations would be "Wrong AGAIN!"

quote:

shoot... stand up on your back legs, pick up a 70 to 120# recoiling rifle and shoot. Since you feel this is beyound you, why don't you give it a rest

Naw, way tooooo much fun seeing how the Band of Bubbas actually use their BIG Bores.

quote:

scope a 375 rum with a 1" eye relief scope.. and shoot it from the bench

Is that what happened to you?

quote:

The current firearms I have with any appreciable Free Recoil don't compare in any way at all to the cannons you all are firing.

Yes, never said I've not had BIG Boring rifles.

quote:

please note, it is possible to shoot a rifle without it sitting on a bench, under sandbags... Hotcore, PICK YOUR RIFLES UP

Your impression of my "Shooting" is far different from reality. But I can understand what has addled your brain.

quote:

So, let's be clear
you don't shoot big bores
you have NO CLUE as to what I am telling you

Once again, your delusions of reality tend to make discussing the issue difficult - but FUNNY!

Band of Bubbas MI:
4. Talking to a Wyoming Outfitter(WO):
Bubba, "You sure you have HUGE Elk in your area?"
WO, "Sure we do. You just have to be willing to go back in far enough and be able to take shots more than 25yds if needed."
Bubba, "No problemo on the l-o-n-g shots, I'll be a usin my good ole trusty 750H&H. Will your horses be able to pull a cart?"
WO, "Pull a cart? HA, some of the terrain is pretty steep, but they can haul back all the Elk meat you kill."
Bubba, "Aaaah, no that isn't what I mean. Huuummm, do you have any Clydesdales?"
WO, "Clydesdales? No. I'm not pulling a Beer Wagon afield. Why do you ask?"
Bubba, "Well, I have to carry so much Lead for my Lead Sled/750H&H to be able to fire it that it has broken-down many normal horses!"

Hotcore = JACKASS ... take your ritalin you hyperactive little twit.

Hotcore has a personality disorder. Insane La Main is what we called the hyperactive brat (Berry Lamain) that acted just like hot core in elementery school.

Hot core are you Insane Lamain? Where exactly do you live you little sweety cake?

.

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:
... I’m seriously considering buying a lead sled for this application.

Then, now is the time to buy one because the fine folks at Natchez Shooters Supplies has them On Sale for $99.95.

quote:

Criticism of a big bore enthusiast for using a led sled ...

I believe perhaps you have missed the "spirit" of my posts. I prefer to laugh with people, but have no problem at all laughing at them when they take themselves way too seriously.

As you can see, the surgical placement of the "needle" has brought out the "best" in a few of the responders.
---

5. Scene - Bubbetta's Burgers and Bullets store.

Bubba Senior(aka BS ), "Hey Bubbetta Sue(BS2), how `bout goin shootin with me this afternoon?"
BS2, "I'd luv to, soon`s I finish off this hyear Magnum Sized Bucket of chicken. Hand me mo paper towels to wipe this grease off`en my face."
BS, "I'll need you to help me load up the rifle inta the truck."
BS2, "You know BS, if I didn't know better, I'd think the only reason you take me shootin is to help you load your rifle inta the truck. That ole truck has a hard time`a haulin it anyhow."
BS, "Gotta surprise fer ya. Just traded for an almost new 3/4 ton 1978 truck with barely 300,000 miles on it. All I could afford and still be able to fire the 750H&H."
BS2, "Well, if`n we put the rifle behind you with`n all that Lead, it should justa`bout balance the load with me riddin' shotgun."
BS, "Exac-tick-a-ly!"

is fumbduck an inapproriate thing for a moderator to say?

Notice, I didn't CALL anyone a fumbduck, just asking if the term is bad to use

quote:

Originally posted by RiflemanZ:
Anyone use this product?I want to shoot my .338 from the bench with quite a few rounds and don't want a sore shoulder.I can buy it for $99

Z- I use mine for every caliber I shoot from .243 to .375 H&H. I wish I had one of these a long time ago.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
is fumbduck an inapproriate thing for a moderator to say?

Notice, I didn't CALL anyone a fumbduck, just asking if the term is bad to use

Jeffeosso, Myself, and others I am sure, would prefer you using the "Hide Post" button on the post rather than getting in a

(remember, you should be setting the standards of proper forum discussions for agreeing or disagreeing)

And as for your question, yes it is inappropriate of you to do that on this forum especially since many, including youngins, read posts on this board. (would you be a proud Grandparent to bring your Grandaughter of 12 here and see this type of behavior, from a Moderator no less)

thanks smedley... and i took that opition

jeffe ..

btw, mods are posters too ... sometimes the double standard is funny, but in this case, well taken.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by smedley:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
is fumbduck an inapproriate thing for a moderator to say?

Notice, I didn't CALL anyone a fumbduck, just asking if the term is bad to use

Jeffeosso, Myself, and others I am sure, would prefer you using the "Hide Post" button on the post rather than getting in a

(remember, you should be setting the standards of proper forum discussions for agreeing or disagreeing)

And as for your question, yes it is inappropriate of you to do that on this forum especially since many, including youngins, read posts on this board. (would you be a proud Grandparent to bring your Grandaughter of 12 here and see this type of behavior, from a Moderator no less)

Awwwww Smedley.... I have seen you posting on the political forum.... don't let any younguns go there.

6. Back at Bubbetta's Burgers and Bullets

BS, "Yo BS2, How you doin today gal? You recover from me dropping the Lead Sled on your foot???"
BS2, "I'm doing OK I guess, but the hospital Bill will cost you $600."
BS, "#@**&^!%@ Hospital Bill! Well..., why are you smillin so much?"
BS2, "A REAL MAN came in here today and bought that 800H&H I'd just gotten in. He picked it up, spun it around, cycled the Bolt, checked the Bore and asked if`n I had any ammo for it? Then you know what he did?"
BS, "Guuuulp, What???!!?!?!"
BS2, "Why he stepped right out back and "shot" it from his shoulder - 18-20 times. Didn't even ask about usin' no stinkin Lead Sled and never even cussed one time!!! I did ask him why he wasn't cussin and he said that only a World Class FOOL does that in public places!"
BS, "&^#$(@@&^%#$!!*&%"
BS2, "That's all right BS. You can still out cuss him any day - even if you are only shooting that weenie 750H&H. "

Just dragged this thread up from who knows how long ago. Just to say I just bought a led sled, the new "improved" version. I haven't had time to try it out yet. It was on sale at midway, besides.

Why? because I want to develope some shotgun sabot loads. Remembering the beating I took from the old 870 with the Lyman foster cast slugs, I figured I should give the old shoulder a break. Besides, I'm older now and my arthritis is getting much worse.

Anyone willing to use this tool to help in load dev will find that they should keep the weight to about 25#, .. its helps with taming recoil, but if you try to stop the gun entire, it may cause damage.

hotcore's hallucinations about the use or not of the lead sled is exactly that .. he's never shot a big bore rifle, never used a lead sled to get the grunt work done, and his lack of experience in the matter makes his mockery into his self mockery ...

the new leadsled is an improvement in ergonomics over the old one .. though I don't expect it'll upgrade any time soon.

expect to see the lead sled featured heavily in the 375 shoot0out

It would seem to me if a person feels they "need" a Lead Sled, they would be better served with a smaller gun they could actually shoot. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:
It would seem to me if a person feels they "need" a Lead Sled, they would be better served with a smaller gun they could actually shoot. Bill T.

Bill
when you weight lift, do you willingly take and drop a 45lb plate on you right foot?

sort of like having a RECOIL PAD... "yeah, if you need a recoil pad, perhaps you should consider a smaller gun"

same thing can be said for hearing protection ... only a sissy needs that, right? perhaps they need to shoot a quieter gun, to not hurt there ears

..

I'd be interested in hearing your experience with calibers larger than .375 and not a pistol caliber (including 45/70 and 444) ...

I shoot 2, .458 Win. Mags., a Remington 700 and a Winchester Model 70. 2, .375 H&H Mags. A Winchester Model 70 and a Browing A-Bolt Medallion with BOSS. A Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby, and a Weatherby Mark V DeLuxe in .460 Weatherby. I do not own a "Lead Sled". Bill T.

Thinking about a lead sled, friends say it's the one to get. A little information: I bought a hyskore, $249 from cabelas, sent it back. Didn't work for me and didn't even come close to it's claims of +- 3,, more like +-15. I did much better off sandbags at my own range off the back porch shooting bench. Made in China junk, very poor quality & workmanship; but good idea if it worked.

My buddy upriver in Canada has a lead sled and is bringing it down nx trip so I can try it out.

good on you ..
so, boss and recoil pads?
don't you think you need to have something you can handle without all those? after all, boss and 460 weatherby means muzzle brake ... *I* wouldn't have a brake as I don't feel that a person should have those, as those are kinda prissy and sissy, to avoid recoil, right?

yes, i meant that to be a jerk... as talking out off one's arm pit appears to be acceptable


when i use a lead sled, i am doing load dev .. the mostly the sole purpose of use it is to allow me to chrono ..

or to allow me to sight the rifle in and then pick it up and shoot ...

you see, i am bright enough to not have the snot beat out of me during load dev...

just like you with your brakes and recoil pads.

Rumor has it that Hotsh$t using his Lead Sled for load development in his .20 air rifle. Seems like he is posting more there since he got run off the medium caliber threads.

Chickensh$t

Look, if you like "lead sleds", go for it. I don't care for lugging all that crap around. Big bores were being shot accurately, and loads developed for them long before Caldwell came along. Have a nice day. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
hotcore's hallucinations about the use or not of the lead sled is exactly that .. he's never shot a big bore rifle,

That would be a Lie and fits both jeffee and teenScum perfectly.

quote:

(he)never used a lead sled to get the grunt work done,

Some truth snuck in which I feel sure is an accident.

quote:

and his lack of experience in the matter makes his mockery into his self mockery ... ...

And Lies on top of Lies in the finest of jeffe and teenScum traditions.

BillT is correct. Using a Lead Sled will ingrain a fear of the rifle into the user so he never becomes accustomed to the Recoil. Nothing complex about it.

I do understand why jeffee loves the Lead Sled, because it allows him to "claim" he fires Big Bores, when in reality the truth is as pitiful as teenScum.

you are so right, hotsore .. i forget the true legends for your hunting skills...

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
It was a Dog Drive and the 7-pointer came out of the woods low-to-the-ground(aka wide-open). The 00BuckShot from the old Blue Paper Peters Hulls hit just a bit too far back, because I had to shoot at the Deer left handed while sitting on the ground. The Deer rolled 2-3 flips and was bawling, but could not regain it's footing.

Before I could get off the ground, a tall-lanky guy went past me.... He ran right up to the Deer and I heard a small "pooft". He had placed the 25ACP in the Deer's ear and Killed it.

It was illegal because of the barrel length and cartridge. Pistols/revolvers had to be 6" or more and 357Mags or better. The 12ga he was also carrying would have been legal.

But the 25ACP did Kill that 7-pointer.

There were 5 other people in that group and they had "other problems" on the land as well. So, they never got to come back.

Hotsore, at the ready, in his hunting poise!
you go, hotsore.. keep on blasting them many thouands

I recently borrowed (more like forced to take it) a lead sled from a friend. I'm doing some load development for the 300 WM. Previously when shooting off bags, I could only handle about 20-25 shots and I was spent. Then, I'd need to wait a day or two to let things heal up a bit. Now, I can shoot on back to back days and can't even tell I've even shot for the past two days. I think they certainly have their place when doing load development and shooting more than 10-15 shots at one setting.

I bought one this spring and like it alot. There's no doubt in my mind that it helps with accuracy and thus load developement. Mine isn't the double frame ls but it is an upgraded model over the original. I don't use any wt's with mine so I feel (hope) I'm not being too hard on the stock or scope. It can still move around pretty good with 300 mag and up loadings.

Hopefully Hotcores "arsehole pill" has worn off by now...but if he want's to ridicule me he can go for it. I always get a kick out of people that don't try a product either at all or not long enough to understand all its workings.....then seem to know everything about it's virtues....or lack there of.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
I don't use any wt's with mine so I feel (hope) I'm not being too hard on the stock or scope.

That is one of the main reasons I don't use one. When a large caliber, heavy rifle goes into recoil, all of that energy has to go somewhere. When you have the weapon up against an immovable object, the stock is going to be forced to absorb all of it. This can, and in fact will, split a wood stock in short order. I've seen it happen so no one is going to tell me different. In a synthetic stocked gun, especially one with a full length Aluminum bedding block, this is less likely to happen, but it will subject the optics mounted on the gun to more violent movement than most were designed to take. No one likes to be subjected to excessive recoil, and it does impede accurate shooting, but "lead sleds", and products like them do little to address the issue properly without placing undo stresses on the gun, stock, scope, and mounts.

I have no argument and or criticism for those who use them, I just prefer not to for the reasons I've stated. And for what it's worth, with all of the big bores I own and shoot with regularity, none are akin to "dropping a 45 pound weight on my foot." Bill T.

Seriously they are not worth a .02 for accuracy. Have a buddy who is recoil timid along with his dad and will use them on anything bigger than a 30-06!! If you are not tough enough to shoot without it then accuracy must not be very high on your list---for those who are mounting scopes on the big cannons this would be a tool to consider.

Bill,
I've used them extensively wood stocked guns with more than 100# of recoil, using about 25# .. *I* have never seen broken stocks resutling from it..

so, tell us, what gun, caliber, stock type and weight used in the sled did you see a stock break?

I myself HAVE broken bigbores on the bench .. and with one exception, it was because i locked the gun in, put the toe on the bench and took "free" recoil .. cracks them at the tang, 3 times!

as for dropping a weight on the foot, it was an absurd statement regarding protection .. you aren't liekly to remove you recoil pad, muzzle brake and hearing protection and take your 460 to the bench for a 50 round load dev session are you?

No, you aren't ..

and NO it doesn't add "undue stresses" to the guns, if you do not try to stop the gun .. no more than a 120# greater weight shooter does ..

idiots can break guns, and there's no point in trying to stop them .. leadsleds with a reasonable amount of weight aren't breaking stocks .. or there would be a class action suit against them!

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Hoss:
Seriously they are not worth a .02 for accuracy. Have a buddy who is recoil timid along with his dad and will use them on anything bigger than a 30-06!! If you are not tough enough to shoot without it then accuracy must not be very high on your list---for those who are mounting scopes on the big cannons this would be a tool to consider.

Boss,
i don't use them for accuracy ... i use them for load dev and then, perhaps getting the scopes or irons roughly inline ..

there's only so much abuse a fella should take, and being rattled to death BEFORE the accuracy shooting starts sounds dumb to me.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
you are so right, hotsore .. i forget the true legends for your hunting skills...

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
It was a Dog Drive and the 7-pointer came out of the woods low-to-the-ground(aka wide-open). The 00BuckShot from the old Blue Paper Peters Hulls hit just a bit too far back, because I had to shoot at the Deer left handed while sitting on the ground. The Deer rolled 2-3 flips and was bawling, but could not regain it's footing.

Before I could get off the ground, a tall-lanky guy went past me.... He ran right up to the Deer and I heard a small "pooft". He had placed the 25ACP in the Deer's ear and Killed it.

It was illegal because of the barrel length and cartridge. Pistols/revolvers had to be 6" or more and 357Mags or better. The 12ga he was also carrying would have been legal.

But the 25ACP did Kill that 7-pointer.

There were 5 other people in that group and they had "other problems" on the land as well. So, they never got to come back.

Hotsore, at the ready, in his hunting poise!
you go, hotsore.. keep on blasting them many thouands

jeffeosso

Thanks for the cute picture of our hunting and reloading hero Hotsh$t. Looks like he's in his hunting position for butt shooting 1,000's of deer with his Blue Dot shotgun loads. Either that or he is recovering from load testing his .20 air rifle using the lead sled. I think he's trying for a load development that reduces his ricochets.

Very very pitiful and dangerous!!!

Agree with part of your statement but when developing loads is not a rather significant part accuracy evaluation?

Most of my problem is attempting to avoid the dreaded "scope bite" lol. Have a couple of small scars from my 338 Lapua Imp W/O Brake (338 Slowpoke and a 30-378 I had a few years back) but the recoil has never really bothered me much as long as the round count was below 30 or so. Had a sore shoulder but I guess it is a mental thing with me as I know the Sled is detrimental to accuracy but will concede that it has its purpose.

Well I see the fight is far from over concerning the lead sled.

The reason I brought this up again was to say a person CAN change his mind about something for the reason given. If your mind is frozen in place because of macho feelings, you're never going to wake up.

I bought the weight bags for mine. I then went looking for some lead shot. Ca-rumba, they sure are proud of that now! So I loaded some muffin ingots into both bags. After reading some of the comments, I do believe I will just use one bag at first, then see how much it tames the jolt from a slug gun.

quote:

Had a sore shoulder but I guess it is a mental thing with me as I know the Sled is detrimental to accuracy but will concede that it has its purpose. Wink

Why? What makes people say that? Anything that holds the rifle solid will IMPROVE accuracy. Saying that makes you think that plain sandbags will be better for small groups than a nice tripod rest like the Caldwell rock. Or just shooting off you car hood with a wadded up jacket!

I've always believed that the more consistent the hold is when shooting for groups off a bench, the better the groups will be. Every time the same grip, amount of shoulder contact, face weld, everything the same each and every time. It seems to me the lead sled would be MORE the same each time, so why wouldn't the groups be more uniform???¿¿

I'm glad to hear how lead sleds ruin accuracy.
This group was shot off a friends home made holder which mirrors the lead sled. GOSH my gun must really be a shooter!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
So, tell us, what gun, caliber, stock type and weight used in the sled did you see a stock break?

I was at the Ben Avery Public Shooting Range here in Phoenix and I personally saw a wood stocked Winchester Super Express in .458 Win. Mag. split at the tang. He was shooting from a Caldwell Lead Sled DFT.

In yet another incident at the Buckeye Hills Shooting Range I saw a CZ 550 in .458 Lott split a Turkish Walnut stock right behind the trigger guard. Same deal, but with a standard Caldwell Lead Sled. Both had 50 pounds of shot in the cradles.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso: you aren't liekly to remove you recoil pad.

"Recoil pads" on big bores are a total joke. Most all of them are hard as a rock, and pretty much do jack $h!t as far as delivering any comfort, or taking away any pain for that matter. Savage is on the right track with the softer pads they're installing on their FCP-K models. I have one on my 110 FCP-K in .300 Win. Mag. It is somewhat of an improvement over the rock hard Remington, and red rubber Winchester models which are all but worthless.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso: NO it doesn't add "undue stresses" to the guns, if you do not try to stop the gun.

"You" don't have to because the contraption with 50 pounds of lead in it is doing it for you. What is harder to move, your shoulder or some weighted down machine that is using dead weight to counteract what you the shooter normally receive. This is common sense. Those shooters didn't crack those stocks by themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso: idiots can break guns.

True, but they break them a lot faster when they use "lead sleds".

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
There would be a class action suit against them!

Don't quit your day job to become an attorney anytime soon. Class action suits are very expensive to file, and even more expensive to litigate and win. No attorney worth his weight in $h!t is going to take one on in order to represent a few guys with broken rifle stocks from a plethora of different rifles all broken by the same silly contraption. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

plethora of different rifles all broken by the same silly contraption. Bill T.


Bill T.

plethora aint two, bill

So, by your statement, recoil pads are also worthless.. dang, you are far more macho than me... when are you cutting off the muzzle brakes, too?

so, you got 2 idiots not reading instructions, and breaking their guns by abuse?

that's sort of like blaming forks for rosie being fat, aint it?

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
I'm glad to hear how lead sleds ruin accuracy.
This group was shot off a friends home made holder which mirrors the lead sled. GOSH my gun must really be a shooter!!!

Sorry do not mean to be condescending but I take accuracy to a different level than most. Have the equipment and knowledge to be successful. If you do not understand why the Sled is not conducive to accuracy then it is a waste of time to try and explain the subtleties of why it is important to have the rifle absolutely level in the rest, the slide test to make sure POA is constant when the rifle is slid rearward back in the rest and rear bag and is returned to the front stop, etc would be lost.

I also understand that others are not tolerant of recoil and flinch---I do not but that still does not change the fact that the Lead Sled is not conducive to greater accuracy that a proper rest such as the one below will provide. I had more than one top made to facilitate my match guns as well.