Maybe a few of you saw a while back I had a boatload of rounds loaded that were too long from head to shoulder, and I need to split them and resize. I also had a bunch with the military equivalent of H380 (W862 or something) that would not completely burn in the short barrel of my AR-15 carbine. I was getting stoppages and powder pitting in the fired cases. I am in the process of disassembling those offending rounds right now. Because I have damned near an entire jug of the H380 stuff, I wondered what was y'all's expert opinion on mixing 10% of a pistol powder (I have AA #5 right at hand) with the H380 and seeing how that would work? I'd mix 30 grains of the AA with 300 grains of the H380, load the rounds to 24 grains with 55-grain bullets in mil-surp cases and see what goes down. I'm thinking the pistol powder burns hot and fast, possibly leading to the more-rapid ignition of the H380. Considered comments are welcomed...

duplex loads are bad, m'kay?
don't do it ... many bad things could happen

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duplex loads are bad, m'kay?
don't do it ... many bad things could happen

I can't say I wasn't warned, but I'm so-o-o curious. Maybe I'll try just a 5% mixture...

Never do i mix

Go with the 10%. If you still have both eyes and both hands, after the test, log on and let us know.

Hey HB, The problem with what you are considering is getting it distributed throughout the H380 evenly. Since the Size and Density of the two Powders will be different, the Smaller stuff tends to settle toward the bottom of the container. No amount of mixing two completely different Powders as you are thinking about doing will result in "consistent" Loads.

There are folks in Africa who have a limited Powder Selection and they do mix two "relatively similar" Powders from the same manufacturer to achieve a Blend. You should be able to locate it by using the "Find" Button above.

And there are Duplex Loads where a small amount of a Fast Powder is placed in a Case and then Slower Powder added above it. This was done a good bit 50yrs ago when the Powder selection was 30% of what it is today. But there are tricks to it, and Compressing the Slower Powder to hold everything in place helps a lot. That does not mean it is a good idea for your situation.

H380 is one of my favorite Powders. I use it a good bit in different calibers. Perhaps you simply need to "buy" a new rifle that will utilize it properly.

What's the old saying about curiosity killing the cat. Too many other powders out there. Do not mix powders and let your safety stand between you and your pocketbook!

There's probably three people at the ARPF that hope you'll try it. (Please don't.)

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I wondered what was y'all's expert opinion on mixing 10% of a pistol powder (I have AA #5 right at hand) with the H380 and seeing how that would work?

I'm not going to take the time write a book on the errors of that idea, just say is not a smart thing to do.

Not high on my list of smart things to do.

NO! NO! NO! You're not even working with known powders. Quick, take the powder you've salvaged and spread it on the lawn before you get any more really ---- (fill in the blank) ideas and then lay down a put a cold rag on your head. Hopefully this spell will pass.

Here is one thing that can and did happen. Started with a case full of 5020 in a 22-250 case. It resulted in a mild bang and a lot of unburned powder. Reduced the 5020 by 1 grain and put in a grain of 680. Not much change but perhaps a little.
Got to 13 gr. 680 and 27.5 gr. 5020 and all powder burned and there really were no pressure signs in perhaps 8 shots.
At 14 gr. 680 and 26 gr. 5020 the bolt was destroyed, the action had a lot of set back and the case was solidly brazed to what was left of the bolt face.
A wise man said that once you get all that powder to burn you may find you got too much of it. In what I do, I have found this statement to be fact more than once. Luckily I'm still here to tell you about it. Once the right temperature and pressure are reached in confinement that stuff is going to take off.
Many of the postings here in have been good advice: play if you must. roger

Thank you to all who responded. I have mixed up a 5% mixture and a 10% mixture. I am planning on using a charge of only about 22.0 grains in both military and commercial brass. I have R-P brass and WCC94 brass. I have an original Colt AR-15 carbine with a heavy barrel at the breech. That should contain any undue pressures. I could shoot a few in my T/C. It has the heavy barrel, the contour of which can handle .30-06 when such a chambering is present. I think it will be OK.

The ersatz H380 I have is small ball, as is the AA #5. I mixed up about 500 grains of H380 to its corresponding percentage AA. The two powders are visually identical, so no problems getting a good mix. Now I'll load 10 of the 5% in commercial and 10 in military, then 10 of the 10% in military and 10 in commercial. If I see flattened primers, ripped rims, bulged cases at the head or the dreaded powder dimples, I'll know to look at other remedies.

My AD&D is paid up, for those of you who might wonder. Lastly, if Man did not dare to dream and then act on those dreams, we'd still be sittin' in caves an' worryin' about the ainmals comin' to eat us...

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Originally posted by homebrewer:
Thank you to all who responded. I have mixed up a 5% mixture and a 10% mixture. I am planning on using a charge of only about 22.0 grains in both military and commercial brass. I have R-P brass and WCC94 brass. I have an original Colt AR-15 carbine with a heavy barrel at the breech. That should contain any undue pressures. I could shoot a few in my T/C. It has the heavy barrel, the contour of which can handle .30-06 when such a chambering is present. I think it will be OK.

The ersatz H380 I have is small ball, as is the AA #5. I mixed up about 500 grains of H380 to its corresponding percentage AA. The two powders are visually identical, so no problems getting a good mix. Now I'll load 10 of the 5% in commercial and 10 in military, then 10 of the 10% in military and 10 in commercial. If I see flattened primers, ripped rims, bulged cases at the head or the dreaded powder dimples, I'll know to look at other remedies.

My AD&D is paid up, for those of you who might wonder. Lastly, if Man did not dare to dream and then act on those dreams, we'd still be sittin' in caves an' worryin' about the ainmals comin' to eat us...

VERY BAD IDEA! DO NOT MIX POWDERS!

It's smooth nuts to risk blowing up an expensive AR15 rifle to save a few bucks on powders.

DON'T DO IT...........................DJ

I appreciate all of the comments and admonishments. But I think just 5 or 10 percent is a pretty small amount compared to the rest of the charge. If the five percenters in the military show signs, I'll not do the ten percenters or any of the commercial. I have to try. Why do men climb mountains, you know?

When I got my first SP-1 way, way back in April of 1983, I went out and bought a Lee Loader. Still have it. Using it today for another purpose. In the kit was a small pamphlet providing reloading data. I went and bought a can of one of the powders. I used a 55-grain bullet and the provided 1.9cc dipper of the powder. I fired the gun. The primer blew out and the casehead expanded. The sound was definitely louder than the factory ammo I had been shooting. There were unburned sticks of powder in the trigger group. Never used the Loader again. Went out and bought a press kit. Worked up a load with that powder and no problems. I think it was IMR 4198...

Doing so would be a poor, poor decision. Don't do it!

One's life or well-being is worth much more than a pound or two of excess powder.

IF you choose to ignore the good advice presented here, you may want to go look in the mirror and call yourself "Stumpy" a few times.

Just might be useful to get used to the name when you start producing your own duplex powder.

Why ask for advice if you are not going to heed it.

The reference to your past reloading experiences might be something you could reflect on.

Is this how you homebrew?

I will add to the list of DONT TO IT!

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Lastly, if Man did not dare to dream and then act on those dreams,

Remember.....dreams and nightmares are found in the very same places!

Also, now that you posted this, doesn't matter if your AD&D is paid. If you try and make a claim, they will deny it because of deliberate unreasonable risk.

This falls in to one of those things you really ought to know better than do.

Yes, the factories blend powder all the time, yes it may work just fine, yes your rifle may be able to handle the pressure. Why risk it?

You don't have a remotely triggered gun with pressure testing to see just what is going on, which the factories do.

You seem to think its worth it. Your choice, you get to live with any bad outcomes too.

this is an UNSAFE act ...

i too advise against mixing powders i had a friend that did this and no longer has his trigger finger . if you want it hotter just try a hotter primer dont mix the powders need help here argueing with the 3 stooges in the political forum be hard to type left handed

I'm very appreciative of all the responses, but I'm gonna do it tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out...

And, rick-- - I am lefthanded. I type with four fingers as it is. I'll just be half as fast. Maybe I can get my stupid friend to pull the trigger. That boy is dumb as a box of hammers...

I'm sure you are trying to be funny, Towlie! Nobody is stupid enough to try to mix fast pistol powder with slow burning rifle powder!

Are they?!!!

PS - That slow burning surplus powder you have is probably WC852 (not W862 which doesn't exist)!

PPS - WC852 has a burn rate more like H414 than H380! I wonder why it doesn't work in light loads in an AR-15?!!!!! Duhhhh?!!!

Maybe if you are trying to ignite 115grs of bluedot in a 4 Bore case using 3grs of bullseye right on top of a 209 primer. Or perhaps your real name is Richard J. Casull. His early loads in 45Colt brass were duplex and triplex loads of Bluedot, H110, and bullseye. What order they were introduced to the case will stay a secret as he says it could damage a Freedom Model 83 if done improperly.


Fate favours the Foolish......so go ahead and try it.

DON'T MIX POWDERS UNLESS YOU ARE AN ENGINEER AND HAVE A TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU FUCK YOURSELF UP!!!

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WE DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU FUCK YOURSELF UP!!!

Maybe you don't, but there's one here who might...

Can you film it for us. Might come in handy for the Humor forum.

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Can you film it for us. Might come in handy for the Humor forum.

Are you nuts? The shrapnel might hit my videocamera...

Powder are designed to burn a given rate a change in pressures at apoint in the burn that isn`t suppose to be there can change the rate of the remaining powder. You have no idea what the mixture is going to do for sure.
The "barrel thickness at the action" also has very little to do with how the rifle will do. The weak link is the brass and once it goes what happens next is anyones guess.

I`m adding a late request that you drop the idea.

I'm not going to post doom and gloom and offer to send you a complimentary eyepatch, but I am pretty curious as to what you are trying to accomplish here? you'll prove to yourself that you can indeed mix powders and get away with it, but I'd be curious to see if you loaded up 100 rounds what the standard deviation as well as extreme spread of the velocities is going to be.

My hunch is that even though you might be able to do this safely you shouldn't use these rounds to hunt prairie dogs at ranges of over 75 yards as you'll probably miss a bunch of them.

the faster powder goes under the slower powder.
it's a common practice with black powder.
you donot want to mix the two powders.
you can easily have more than one ignition spot in the case.
bulged chambers, good god i don't have enough time to say all that can go wrong.
you either go slowest over slow or fast under too slow.
i'd just switch to the proper powder to keep your rifle in operating condition.

Well at first I though HB was a troll and shining you all on. Now I see he is drunk, high, or is suffering from a severe case of depression and has suicidal tendencies.

I second the notion for HB to Film it for us C'mon HB! It might make saeeds video circuit.

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Well at first I though HB was a troll and shining you all on. Now I see he is drunk, high, or is suffering from a severe case of depression and has suicidal tendencies.

Wrong on all counts, Go. I am interested. I have always been a tinkerer. As a kid, I took things apart only to have my dad lay the back of his hand across my face when I couldn't put his lawnmower back together. Firearms fascinate me. Reloading fascinates me.

I have thoroughly mixed the powders and loaded up 20 rounds in mil-surp and factory, in 5% and 10% concentrations. I think everything will be alright because Steve's Pages lists 26.5 to 28.5 grains of genuine H380 for the 55-grain bullet. I am loading mine to only 23 grains. If I loaded the H380 to the middle value of 27.5 grains, my load is 16.4% lower than that-- considerably under the customary 10% you always load down to when you start developing a load. I hardly think the small dilution of pistol powder will cause my gun to blow up in my face. I am appreciative of your concern. Never let it be said that I am not. What I seek is to use this ersatz H380 as .223 powder. I know 27.5 grains of it does not burn in a short barrel. I am hoping my reduced load with its pistol powder "kicker" will burn all the powder and I can use the alleged H380 as plinkin' powder. I have a jug of H322, a small amount of AA2230 left and a bit of a one-pound jug of BL-C(2). Then I have this nearly full jug of H380. I have about 6,000 cases, damned near most of them primed and ready for the bullet. I can't see not using this powder. I do use it as powder for foulers in my big gun, but I hardly ever shoot that thing. So it's just setting there, unused. Look, gasoline has 10% ethanol in it. You hardly notice it, right? I don't. It's gonna be interesting. If I come back in one piece, I'll give you a full report. If it doesn't dimple the cases, I think I have found a use for the powder. Wish me luck...

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Wish me luck...

Well, you asked, and you're on your own.

I think from the very first he intended to do this thing regardless of what we said. The call for advice was merely a "look at me" to make sure that we were all paying attention.
If he gets away with this stunt, it's on to bigger and more absurd things. I think trying to identify powder by appearance is pretty far fetched to begin with.
Tinker away, Homebrew. We're watching.

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Look, gasoline has 10% ethanol in it. You hardly notice it, right?

You're a genius


.

There are always numerous applicants for the Darwin Award. However most of them are incredibly stupid.....................

You gotta be kidding, right? Duplexing smokeless?
Bear in Fairbanks

I normally try to ask:
1. What are my potential gains?
2. What are my potential risks?

Take it from there!

and to think I get accused of being nuts for using Blue Dot in rifle cases...

a local moron here, use to like to mix powder to see how much velocity he could get out of a round.

in fact he was bragging about blowing up three Mauser actions in one year...

heard he quit when he landed in the hospital with facial damage and missing a couple of fingers..

have never seen him back at the range, since I have heard of his hospital visit.