I'm building a new custom home and have a room with 4 concrete walls giving me the option to build a gun room / safe room. I've been researching gun vault doors and seeing lots of different and conflicting into on what & who makes the best vault doors. Can anyone tell me the must haves on vault doors and gun rooms?? Suggestions pics??

Look at Graffunder and Brown Safe.

http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/vault.html

https://www.brownsafe.com/esta...ult-doors/index.html

https://www.brownsafe.com/cate.../gsa_vault_doors.htm

https://www.brownsafe.com/monu...ault-door/index.html

If you are making a safe room don't forget the ceiling, it's always the weak point.

The other thing is that you have to have some way to get fresh air in an out that can be disconnected from the regular heating and cooling system. I'd recommend putting in steel dampers on the walls connections and run 4" PVC air pipes underground along your water pipes or sewer lines and hide the intake and exhaust as ground drains or in bushes or landscaping. Use regular 4" ball valves to close these off when not used and use a battery operated fan in the exhaust line to set up air flow.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
If you are making a safe room don't forget the ceiling, it's always the weak point.

The other thing is that you have to have some way to get fresh air in an out that can be disconnected from the regular heating and cooling system. I'd recommend putting in steel dampers on the walls connections and run 4" PVC air pipes underground along your water pipes or sewer lines and hide the intake and exhaust as ground drains or in bushes or landscaping. Use regular 4" ball valves to close these off when not used and use a battery operated fan in the exhaust line to set up air flow.

suggestions for ceiling if concrete is not an option??

Ceiling:
Metal 2x6s with cement board on top in several layers. Perhaps sheet iron in between two of the layers.

No matter what you do, always insure to the max. I am, and there are no worries when I travel, hunt, am away from home, etc. Of course, I'd rather have the rifles, but…

Also, as in my home, have a way for water to escape. A basement full of water (leaking pipes, fire hose water to put out a fire) is hell on firearms. Make sure water has an easy escape (drain) and won't settle or flow to the gun room.
Good luck.
Cal

A friend's basement is his gunroom he used 13 gauge metal mesh, 1/2" diamonds (.072" thickness) on the ceiling.

He used two layers of mesh sandwiching a 1/2" cement board as he wanted fire resistance along with security. He ran the two layers of mesh in different directions so none of the seams line up and it has a lot more attaching points. This also cut down on the size of the open space to about 1/4" between the mesh.

It's heavy though, two layers of metal mesh is about 2.5 Lbs per square foot plus the weight of the cement board.

My neighbor has one and included an escape door so that if they are robbed while at home, the criminals cannot lock them in the safe room. I guess there was a famous case in AZ where that happened.

Like Cal says, water is you enemy.
Whatever I used for the ceiling I would probably put sheet metal as the top layer and either peak or slope the roof with drains. Even 29 gauge would work. Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon and a cubic foot has 7.5 gallons in it... so anything that absorbs or restricts the flow of water will cause weight to add up drastically.
Steel loses it's integrity faster than wood does in a fire, so if you use metal studs (4" I-beam would be better, or boxed purlins) insulate them .

I would consider putting tar paper where you have any type of steel mesh or beam that burglars would use a torch to try and cut thru.The smoke is seen for blocks and they never finish the job.I'm in the car wash business and that's how I prevent ceiling break in's.

Also a thing to consider.....that I didn't!

Make sure any doors open INTO the vault/saferoom.

It makes it much harder to become trapped inside.

.

Don't forget communications. Have a HAM radio or such, with an external antenna. This was you can call for help if need be.

Carl mentions insuring to the max. Can we negotiate a lower rate than normal if we have a great vault and great alarm systems? How does a poor guy insure a million dollar collection?

Insuring collectable firarms is a fraction of the cost of SCI and NRA insurance ripoffs @ $1.25 per hundred of value.

Look up insurers that work with collections. You will be surprised.

Tell me, how does a poor guy get a million dollar collection?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Insuring collectable firarms is a fraction of the cost of SCI and NRA insurance ripoffs @ $1.25 per hundred of value.

Look up insurers that work with collections. You will be surprised.

Tell me, how does a poor guy get a million dollar collection?
Cal

I though that the SCI insurance plan was a bargain compared to USAA rates. You have some place better and cheaper?

https://www.fema.gov/media-lib...ructionPlans_508.pdf This is how I'm planning on building mine. Tornadoes are our biggest concern, so it needs to be able to withstand impact from objects flying through the air. The door needs to open inward in case the roof collapses. The roof needs to be strong enough to survive a roof collapse.

Here in Tyler, more and more people are having safe rooms built into their houses. The master bedroom closet is where I've seen them. Regular doors on the outside that swing out, massive steel doors on the inside that are always open unless needed. Venting is the big issue. If you house is destroyed, resuers will find you. But you might be there for a day or two and more then anything else, you will need air to breath. Add a bucket for a potty with plastic bags, bottled water, an outlet to keep things charged until you lose power. Blankets to keep warm and something to eat that wont go bad.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieWalker:
https://www.fema.gov/media-lib...ructionPlans_508.pdf This is how I'm planning on building mine. Tornadoes are our biggest concern, so it needs to be able to withstand impact from objects flying through the air. The door needs to open inward in case the roof collapses. The roof needs to be strong enough to survive a roof collapse.

Here in Tyler, more and more people are having safe rooms built into their houses. The master bedroom closet is where I've seen them. Regular doors on the outside that swing out, massive steel doors on the inside that are always open unless needed. Venting is the big issue. If you house is destroyed, resuers will find you. But you might be there for a day or two and more then anything else, you will need air to breath. Add a bucket for a potty with plastic bags, bottled water, an outlet to keep things charged until you lose power. Blankets to keep warm and something to eat that wont go bad.

Sounds like a great reason to not live in tornado country.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Insuring collectable firarms is a fraction of the cost of SCI and NRA insurance ripoffs @ $1.25 per hundred of value.

Look up insurers that work with collections. You will be surprised.

Tell me, how does a poor guy get a million dollar collection?
Cal

I though that the SCI insurance plan was a bargain compared to USAA rates. You have some place better and cheaper?

I insure with Eastern Insurance. About 1/3 the cost of SCI and NRA and coverage is far better.
Cal

If I had four walls I would pour the ceiling also.

I just completed my vault. Pouring was not an option, but it has 8" thick walls and a 5" thick ceiling made of "special sauce" in a number of fireproof and cut/drill proof materials.

I went with a Liberty National Security vault door: ~1,000 lbs., 24 1.5" locking bolts, anti-drill plate, auto-relock, interior disabling of dial, interior lock/unlock (doubles as a panic room), and in-swing so the door cannot be prevented from opening.

It's climate controlled by the house HVAC with an auto shut-off if it detects a temperature increase or smoke. It has a venting fan/duct that is also temperature triggered and will draw make-up air from outside in that scenario.

4K security camera system and additional rings of cameras and alarm sensors elsewhere. My alarm system is cellular, hidden, and on battery back-up for 12+ hours, and so is the camera system. I also live about a half mile from the local Police station and about 3 miles from the Sheriff's station.

And: what did that cost?

Some of us would like to know so we could look
into putting things together too.

Thanks,

George

I really like the idea of a gun vault doing double duty as a safe room and a room to protect from a tornado. However, my guess is if the bad guys get to you when your home and they coerce you to open the doors, they will probably shoot you and then it won't really matter. Many years ago a gun buff in St Louis was broke into when he was home and they beat him senseless for the combination, he gave it up, they beat him more and then took all his guns. He never really recovered and died a few years after that. You cannot protect yourself against everything, but I guess you can try.

quote:

Originally posted by jlabreck7316:


It's climate controlled by the house HVAC with an auto shut-off if it detects a temperature increase or smoke. It has a venting fan/duct that is also temperature triggered and will draw make-up air from outside in that scenario.

Can you explain this HVAC system to me?
Where is the auto shut off? Outside the safe room i assume?
Did you have a hole cut in the concrete for the ductwork?

I am framing a house for myself right now. Have plans to have a gun safe room next to my reloading room
Fire protection is taken care of,now worried about temp and moisture control

OK ive decided to go this route;
Ft. Knox Executive 8240 in-swing door, Redundant Lock. Room will be both a gun room and loading room. I will have exhaust ventilation but not quite sure what i'm going to do to control humidity? thoughts??

I don't want the slop of a reloading room in my gun vault. That's just my take on it. I don't worry about fresh air because I'm in there every day with the door open.

What is Eastern's rate per 100? Question #2, why can't anyone, clients, not insurers, tell us what their rates are? If I bother to post on a forum to answer questions about my insurance, I would have those basic answers in hand.

My 30" inward opening vault door was ordered from Homeland Safes. So far, no one has gotten in there that is not related to me by blood.

Just started on my gunroom/vault,we have a walk out basement with 12 of concrete on top under our sunroom. Vault will be 12 x 16 with 12 in of reinforced concrete on all sides. Took the easy way out and ordered a 42x82 Browning clamshell door with the new style biometric fingerprint lock. I will be able to lock and unlock it from the inside for a panic room. Lining it with stained tongue and groove siding. Drain in floor for dehumidifier. Mark

I built my house back in the 1980's, before people ever thought about safe rooms or substantial concrete vaults, so my room is less substantial, but provides great protection nonetheless.

What I did was build a room that is completely sheathed in 2 layers of 5/8" type "X" fire rated Sheetrock with a layer of heavy sheet metal (I for get the gauge, but it's thick sheet metal) sandwiched between the Sheetrock layers. I added a 1 hour fire rated door and frame. My house is 1 1/2 miles from fire station and I have a hydrant in my front yard, so I figured this was a good option.

If I ever build a new house (doubt it) I'd go with a full panic room that'd double as a gun/valuables vault.

I am jumping in here late but I have lived with a 10 ft. by 13 ft. walk in vault for 30+ yrs. now and I would never have another house without a vault nor handicap rails in bathrooms.
Not knowing I was doing right I built it right in the middle of the three bedroom layout of my single story house. Great for when you hear something in the middle of the night that sounds like a freight train inbound but you don't live near tracks! TORNADO! run in and slam door.
Make sure the door opens to inside of vault. I did not but then I had never seen a vault/shelter before I built mine.
A vault is just like your gun safe...never big enough but at some point you have to stop.
You pick your door and door frame. I bought mine from Browning Pro Steel in 1985. Welded it to the rebar coming out of the foundation. Most vaults are built with concrete I am sure but the tilt wall guy wanted a fortune to build mine so I built it all from 1/2" steel welded inside and out.
The steel ceiling is supported buy the weld and three L shape steel supports welded across to support the roof weight.
Now it was time for sheetrock, insulation, floor carpet and wood paneling on walls. Electrical outlets around three walls, fluorescent lighting and carpeting.
I built two levels of guns high but forgot about length of shotgun barrels. Went back later and drilled with hole saw holes behind the shelf holding top guns. Barrels IF they poke do so behind the buttstock of upper gun. No damage to worry with.
Later on I went in and on one half of west wall made adjustable shelving for cased items. Below are pull out drawers for knives, handguns, game calls, etc.
In the center of the vault I later built a large island with adjustable shelving for storage of ammo primarily. Top of island is carpeted too so you have a place to lay guns down while doing show and tell etc. The height of center island is measured by putting your elbow on a stand up bar and then moving your hand to your mouth! Just the right height :-).
There has been many a conversation in there while standing around the island looking as some gun.
As to humidity. At one time I had a dehumidifyer in there with removable bucket but through the years I learned that if I am comfortable in the house then the guns are comfortable in the vault. I have no rust problems. The vault is has normal household AC.
A large commercial fire extinguisher sits just inside the door. Blanket, bucket, water, flashlights, battery radio etc. are in there too in case of tornado.
On one of your pull out drawers I would make sure there is a key lock just to keep that drawer from being out of the way of prying eyes.
What would I do different? Build it single car garage size I reckon. Make sure door opens to inside and all the other stuff I talked about above.
I would never put one where water could leak into it like a basement!
This vault door opening is in a hallway with normal household door hiding the vault door from view. If does not yell...VAULT HERE!.

Harry, you are me. I implemented all of your ideas in the last year, except for the size of the room. Mine is a bit, OK, a lot larger. A lot of issues brought up by other posters are superfluous. If you ever get to D.C., let me know so you can visit. You are the man on this thread. By the way, wall treatments in mine are also two level, from 7.62X54R.net A great website for gun room racks.

I had a friend who bought a nice gun vault..Someone stole it with all his guns in it.
so get a heavy one connected to a cement floor..

I just used a big double wide closet to make a gun case and its protected by a bad dog, rather a loud dog..If you open the door it will pull the pin on my case of WW2
granades...that'll teach.um.

I have designed a home that has space for vaulted room.
My thought was to build it with cinder blocks on the side walls with #5 rebar slid in the cavities from the top and then fill the remaining civility space with concrete or sand.
Would have #5 rebar embedded in the foundation to set the first two rows of cinder blocks on. Perhaps foam insulation which would hamper a torch cutting the rebar.
Good thoughts on the ceilings posted.

EZ

Corvens Insurance are the only guys to use. They insure a high percentage of the large sporting arms dealers. Great guys and excellent prices.
https://www.corevensguninsurance.com/

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Insuring collectable firarms is a fraction of the cost of SCI and NRA insurance ripoffs @ $1.25 per hundred of value.

Look up insurers that work with collections. You will be surprised.

Tell me, how does a poor guy get a million dollar collection?
Cal

I though that the SCI insurance plan was a bargain compared to USAA rates. You have some place better and cheaper?

I insure with Eastern Insurance. About 1/3 the cost of SCI and NRA and coverage is far better.
Cal

+1

If not mentioned, landline phone into the vault is a good idea as your cell may not work in the concrete room and / or you might not be able to grab your cell if running for your life.

A friend just built a major underground vault / safe room encased in concrete with a monster door, fresh air, vibration sensors, and a double redundant cellular network with battery back ups. Top of the line.

Oh boy, I’m sure glad I live in rural Montana
No vault necessary, money for vault is spent on hunting

The new house I'm having built in TX has a 12 x 12 safe room. The footer for it was dug and poured, with long pieces of rebar sticking up. Then they poured the slab over the safe room footer. Concrete walls and ceiling with the rebar from the footer long enough to bend over and be incorporated into the ceiling "slab".

Maybe if all you keep in there is guns and ammo. You might have enough room.

Bedrooms in my old house are 12'x12' and they're sure as hell not big enough for much.

Room I use for my gun room is 11'x19' and it's sure not big enough either. Mostly due to the other shit that's migrated in there.

Best of luck, hope it's just what you wished for.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If you open the door it will pull the pin on my case of WW2
granades...that'll teach.um.

It will also teach you when your ass is hauled to jail. Seriously illegal to do this; as a former LEO I would think you would know this...

Gentlemen,

If we’re also talking about using gun vaults/rooms as safe rooms, there are some special considerations. I’ve evaluated safe rooms in some international conflict zones and have seen common shortcomings.

1. Life support. Safe rooms must protect occupants when the building burns down around them. They must provide a continuous supply of breathable air.
2. Survival. A widespread disaster—natural or man made—might mean help could be days away. Food, water, and sanitation must be considered.
3. Communications. How many ways can you call for help? For a commo plan, think PACE: Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency methods of communication.
4. Eyes. Hunkered down in the safe room, you’ll want to see out. Has the home invasion ended? Are the people banging on the door rescuers or a threat? Are any bad actors elsewhere in the home or building?

Before you expand the portfolio of your gun vault or room, take the time to ensure it is up to the task.

BTW, some call them panic rooms, but if you have one there’s no need to panic.