The new Kahles CSX 1.1-4x 24 mm rifle scope needs some consideration as a choice DG Scope:

The extremely wide field-of-view of the lightweight HELIA CSX rifle scopes creates an outstanding overall view and allows you to shoot with both eyes open.

The CSX reticle on Kahles Rifle scopes is located in the second image focal plane. Since this reticle is non-magnifying, the reticle subtensions become increasingly finer as the magnification is increased. The result, an ideally larger illuminated dot in low magnification for the quick shot and a finer dot in higher magnification for the longer precision shot.

With a reticle located in the non-magnifying second image focal plane of the Kahles 1.1-4x 24mm rifle scope, extremely visible on any target, but always fine and precise, in any light condition. The advanced digital CSX lighting technology is unique in design and function.

With Kahles easy functionality, operation is easy on as the control unit is located conveniently in a third turret on the left side of the housing with On-Off activation that functions intuitively comprehensibly and at the same time silently.

Here are the specs:

AMV multi-layer lens coating provides close to 100% light transmission for crisp, clear images in twilight hours
Light weight rugged construction, water and shockproof design, machined from a single piece of high grade aluminum... includes Prismatic rail
Digital stageless control for day and night lighting, completely silent with memory function and a red indicator ring to identify activation; outstanding battery life of 500+ hours (spare battery located in windage turret cap
Robust etched glass reticle in second image plane does not change size with increased magnification... a decisive advantage at a long distance for the long shot
Extremely precise adjustment mechanism creates absolute repeatability
Exit pupil: 10.5-6 mm
Eye relief: 3 1/2" (90mm)
Diopter compensation: +2/-3.5
Twilight factor: 3.5-9.8
Impact pt. corr.. per click: .54 in. / 100 yards
Elevation / Windage Adj. Range: 11 ft. / 100 yards
Tube diameter / length: 1" / 11". Weighs 16.5 ozs.
F.O.V.: 40-10.5m / 100m
Available in C-Dot reticle.

Warrior

S&B and Swarovski are my favorite glass.

Kahles Helia CL "Multi-Zero" 3-9x42mm Riflescope by Randy Wakeman.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kahles_heliaCL_3-9x42.htm

The only difference between the CL and the CT model is the Multi-Zero feature.

Warrior

Setting Sights on Lynx
By Koos Barnard.
Magnum Magazine August 2008

I jumped at the chance when Michael Rogers, who heads the very well-known South African company Lynx Optics, offered me three scopes from their new Professional LX II series for testing. Like all other Lynx scopes, LX IIs are made in Japan, sport excellent optics, and sell at competitive prices. The new products were a 1.5-5x32, a 3-10x40 and a 4.5-14x42 with an adjustable objective for parallax/focus correction. Lynx also sent a 1-3x20 and a prototype of their yet to be released, 1.5-4.5x24 which sports a 30mm tube and an illuminated reticle. This one will be available within four months. These arrived a little too late for range testing but I did test them for clarity; parallax and I checked the eye-relief.

I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the LX II models. Because we do not have the specialist equipment, the time and the expertise necessary to conduct strictly objective technical tests on the properties and quality of optical lenses, our ‘tests’ are somewhat subjective but we trust are no less useful to our readers. I used a Leupold 4.5-14x40LR and a Swarovski 4-12x50 as controls for my tests and after spending quite some time looking at various objects from 15m right out to almost 400m, found that the clarity and definition of the Lynx 4.5-14x was slightly superior to the Leupold’s. The 3-10x and the 1.5-5x scopes also matched the Leupold’s optics although eye position with the 3-10x Lynx was more critical than with the Leupold at maximum magnification. In poor late afternoon light the Lynx models again matched up to the Leupold but the Swarovski was obviously superior and so it should be, because its retail price is about three times higher than the Lynx’s.

Although the Lynx scopes made a good first impression, the eye-relief of all three models was a disappointing 75mm at maximum magnification. (The Leupold’s was 95mm and the Swarovski’s 85mm.) This shorter eye-relief does not make sense, especially on the low-power variable which I assume was developed for big-bores that kick much more than ordinary hunting calibres. However, the 1-3x and the new 1 .5-4.5x have very generous eye-relief (95 and 120mm respectively at the highest and lowest magnifications) so they should keep you out of the Half-moon Club, should you be scoping a calibre with attitude. (Lynx is investigating the possibility of lengthening the eye-relief, but this is no easy adjustment.)

I was hoping to test the 1.5-5x on my .375 but this scope’s short tube (the front section) prevented me from moving it back far enough to get a full field of view. The same was true for the 3-10x which I tried on my .308 Win Mauser. Lynx promptly sent me extension-type front bases which worked fine for the 3-10x on my .308; but the Lynx rings were not compatible with the custom bases on my .375. As I was reluctant to fit new bases to the .375, I mounted the 1 .5-5x on my .22 Hornet. Another small problem with the 3-10x was the diameter of the ocular bell — measuring 40.6mm it was wide enough to cause the bolt-handle’s stem to just touch it. The Swarovski 4-12x’s ocular bell measures 38.9mm — small enough to allow the handle to clear the scope. Manufacturers (and scope buyers) should give more attention to such ‘seemingly small’ matters.

The 4.5-14x features an extended parallax-free facility which enables the shooter to use it at 15m — ideal for airgun use — and I therefore mounted this scope on my Air Arms 5400 rifle. Due to the generous tube length (15.5cm) I was able to move the scope back far enough to take care of the short eye-relief.

With the scopes mounted on rifles I could easily check whether they were parallax-free at the 100m standard. This was done with the magnification set at maximum and minimum and I am happy to report that all five passed the test. The 4.5-1 4x’s parallax/focus adjustment was then tested at various distances (confirmed with a Leica rangefinder) alongside the 4.5- 14x Leupold which has a side-mounted or saddle focus, parallax adjustment.

In this test the Lynx also did well but the calibration seemed to be slightly out at the longer distances for my eyes. For example, I had to turn the objective bell past the 200m marker to get it properly focused at that distance. This is not a serious problem — I have experienced the same with a Swarovski — the numbers on the bell are actually just a guide. The Leupold has markers but no numbers on its focus drum — a clever way to overcome the calibration ‘problem’. Anyway, the Lynx did well enough to satisfy me and it focused right down to a true 15m.

The Professional LX II scopes feature finger adjustable turrets for easy operation and with the help of a collimator I had the centre-fire rifles on paper at 100m and the air rifle at 15m in no time. Some minor adjustments were made to get the scopes properly zeroed and then it was time for our standard test — checking the accuracy and consistency of the adjustments. This was done at 50m for the centre-fires and 25m for the air- gun by firing two shots (three with the air rifle), adjust the dials 40 clicks to the right, fire two shots, adjust 40 clicks down, 40 left and 40 up, each time firing two shots. The idea is to construe a perfect square. All three scopes did very well in this test. All the test models have the so-called ‘zero storing’ facility. Once you have sighted-in the scope, pull upward on the dial to disengage the drum from the internal mechanism. It will now rotate independently of the mechanism which allows you to turn it to the zero position. Then push the drum downward until it engages the mechanism again. Storing the zero makes it easy to return to it if you have had to make adjustments for say, long range shooting.

I also fired one shot each at all the different magnification settings and none of the scopes showed any evident change in zero. Unfortunately the obviously limited range tests do not allow me to comment on durability as I normally fire only 20 to 40 rounds during a standard scope test. However, the Lynx scopes seemed to be of good quality and I was really impressed by their optics. During my tests (34 shots with the .308 and 30 with the Hornet) the Professional LXs held their zeros perfectly. I did play a lot more with the 4.5-14x, constantly changing the magnification and the focus ring and must have fired well over 200 pellets — no problem either with this one.

Lynx’s little 1-3x is a light, compact model that will appeal to those who carry their rifles more than they shoot them. The 1.5-4.5x is a chubby and fairly heavy scope for its size with a large ocular bell, measuring 43mm at its widest point. Mounting this scope low on some rifles might present a problem. However, because of the 30mm tube it sits “higher” in the rings and just cleared my .308’s bolt-handle. I particularly liked its duplex reticle which comes with an illuminated dot. When switched off for daytime use, the reticle looks like a standard crosshair but when illuminated only a red dot appears at the junction of the crosshair legs. On many scopes the whole reticle lights up which is counterproductive because the illumination is usually too bright and thus prevents you from seeing the target.

The only way to test durability is to use a scope for at least a year and then report on its performance, something which I hope to arrange with Lynx after having one of their high magnification scopes fitted with a long range reticle.

Well, apart from the short eye-relief and the slightly fat ocular bells, the Lynx scopes made a good impression. The suggested retail prices for the test models are: 1-3x20, R2600; 1.5-4.5x24, R5000; 1.5-5x32, R3500; 3-10x40, R3400 and 4.5-14x42, R4100. Lynx scopes are stocked by dealers country wide and with local backup at hand I think these scopes represent good value for money. The Professional Series scopes have a lifetime warranty which is limited to the original purchaser and only applies to products purchased in South Africa. For information on your nearest dealer phone Lynx on 011-792-6644.

Warrior

More good info:

S&B excellent accurate travel on the board.

Zeiss Conquest absolutely terrible and as bad as Burris for accuracy in functioning

For my long range rifles I use S&B and Nightforce. Both are rugged and precise in adjustment and very reliable. S&B has the best optics that one can find in a rifle scope in my experience. The top end zeiss have comparable optics, but are light and less robust


This NXE was on a Special Forces soldiers rifl and took an AK-47 bullet through the tube. He taped up the holes and used the scope for the next 3 days. The report is that the Nightforce was still shooting with-in a 1/4 MOA at 500 meters

I have looked through this scope, amazing that is stil functioned as it should

I've heard good things about the March scopes. Anyone have one that can comment?

It would be interesting to hear some views on who is still using fixed scopes on 4x and 6x? Which type and so forth?

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've heard good things about the March scopes. Anyone have one that can comment?

Hey rc, I'm thinking about getting the 2.5x25x42 Mil with the illuminated MML reticle



Whatcha think?

Woods,

I posted this on another thread ...

"I looked through a Zeiss Classic Diatal 6x42 T* and it was one of the brightest scopes that I looked trough - better to my eyes than the Swarovski Z3 3-9x36 that I comapred it with. In fact I compared it also againts 5 other variable scopes set at 6x magnification, and it beat all of them, including the much touted March scope."

Whilst the March scope was as bright as the Zeiss, it suffered greatly with its very sensitive eyebox that blurred into a black view when the eye is slightly off the centre. I had all these scopes out on a tripod rack, all of them plugged in a row, so one could move readily from one to the other, all focused on the same board some distance away, all the eyepieces were focused for optimal clarity and all were set at 6x magnification so it could be compared with the fixed 6x Zeiss scope .... and the Zeiss beat them all. The FOV on the Zeiss was also better than most, including the March scope.

So before you buy the March scope, please go check and see if you concur with me and the shop owner of Safari & Outdoor (where we have done the comparison). I just could not believe it, as so much hype has been created around these March scopes by benchrest shooters. For me it is not a hunting scope - in hunting I want quick target acquisition with a non-sensitive eyebox first and foremost, and then clarity. For this very reason my Leupold VX2 is doing well as a hunting scope, despite the fact that European optics are brighter.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
It would be interesting to hear some views on who is still using fixed scopes on 4x and 6x? Which type and so forth?

Warrior

Yes ... that'd be me. All Leupolds ... two M8 4x powers, two M8 6x36 scopes (one is with Leupold as the objective bell seperated when it slipped in the rings on a Ruger 450/400NE), one M8 2.5x and one 12x ... am awaiting a local price to order a new 3x. May buy a mates older 10x.

I prefer the fixed powers ... as I get older I'm appreciating the 6x more and more.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

I started out with a 4x40 mm Tasco World Class scope and later on changed it for a variable Lynx 3-9x42 mm, and later bought more variables as my rifle collection grew. Then I hunted a little while ago with a Zeiss Diatal 6x42 mm scope for the first time in mountainous terrain, and I guess I have become a fan of the 6x instantly. There was nothing to fiddle with or to distract. It makes for faster shooting, and it is perhaps its sheer simplicity that grows on one. The Zeiss is very bright and target acquisition was very quick, offering a forgiving constant 7 mm exit pupil making for an optimum view.

More and more hunters are buying variable scopes today, because of its flexibility, but there are still a few companies offering the fixed 6x scope. Nikon has discontinued their 6x42 Monarch scope. I have not seen the Swarovski Habicht Nova 6x36 rifle scope either any more. Lynx offers a 6x38 scope and their scopes are now being made in the Nightforce factory in Japan.

One criticism though, most all European scopes have short eye relief such as Zeiss at 80 mm, S&B at 83 mm and Kaps at 85 mm, which limits them to mild recoiling cartridges. Evidently the Kaps factory is right opposite the S&B factory and they offer very similar quality. I looked through some of their models at our local agent.

The best non European 6x scope in my opinion is the Leupold. Leupolds offer the most eye relief with their FX-2 6x36 at 4.3" and the FX-3 6x42 at very generous 4.4". The FX-3 offers slightly better optics though than the much sleeker FX-2 scope. The FX-3 comes with a tube length of 5.4", which I consider to be the minimum mounting length of any scope. For low mounting the FX-3 6x36 is ideal and looks very attractive on a sleek custom built rifle.

The highly rated Schmidt & Bender 6x42 compares very well with the Zeiss, but it is a matter of personal choice which one you prefer. The Zeiss is slimmer and has a smaller objective bell, which I prefer. Also the S&B is heavier at 18 oz against the 14.8 oz of the Zeiss. The Zeiss Diatal 6x42 being a 25 mm tube scope has a generous 6 inches of mounting space, I like its No. 4 reticle and it has brilliant glass. Go here for more info:

http://www.uttings.co.uk/Produ...l-6x42t-rifle-scope/

Carl Zeiss Classic Diatal: 6x42 mm, .... £589.00 (Uttings UK) and (R8500 in SA)

Warrior

Warrior,
I have variables as well ...

I prefer the fixed powers for simplicity in construction and hence perceived durability. I have a few big bore rifles and on these I prefer fixed powers, likewise walkabout varminters.

There's also some benefit I believe to a consistent sight picture with uncluttered reticles.

I buy Leupold (usualy second-hand) because they are slimmer than many Euro models and better priced. The M8 4x scopes even in low rings have tonnes of clearance. The possibility is there to mount them extremely low which I believe makes a rifle handle better. The FX-3 6x42 is one I'd really like to try in the future.

The only variable I'm keen to try is the Zeiss DuraLyte 3-12x50m ... on a 270Win for low light duties where some reach may be required.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've heard good things about the March scopes. Anyone have one that can comment?

Hey rc, I'm thinking about getting the 2.5x25x42 Mil with the illuminated MML reticle



Whatcha think?

I'd go for it! Charley says they're good and have a heck of a reputation.

Who carries them? Maybe if you're not happy (like Warrior says is possible) you can send it back

I think from checking their site and folk's recommendation you'll be happy!

I can guarantee he'll be happy if he gets a S&B. Top notch glass very rugged and precise in adjustments well a well proven track record

Hello Warrior,

Good post! I am a 4x user!! I hunt for Red Deer and Wild Boar in Patagonia, where the possibility of long shots, 300/350 meters are very real.
My scopes are, also, Zeiss. Plus one Kollmorgen 26mm, and one Redfield Bear Cub 1" tube. One a Zeiss Diatal DA 4x32 with Nº1 reticle is in a M1935 Mauser in 7x57. I bought it new in 1973. The 26 mm tube, non-centered reticle model. Great scope! Have suffered some beatings that I doubt any other scope would resist! And the optics are, AT LEAST, as good as my other Zeiss. This is a Zeiss Diatal ZA, 1980´s, the last 26 mm 4x scope made by Zeiss. It is in the .375 H&H M70 Pre-64 (1953). It has a centered reticle and a Nº 4 reticle. The BEST 4x scope I have had! These Diatal 4x are, for me, one of the best designed 4x scopes. From the first ones after WWII, sold with the Hensoldt brand to the last ones. I have one of those Hensoldt, not a Diatal but a Diasta (steel tube) with a Nº 4 reticle. It is in a 7x57, one of the "Plezier" Mausers, Original DWM Sporting Rifles made with the M93 action.
I have had a Scmidt & Bender 4x36 also with Nº 4 reticle. Very good scope, also! But I prefer the Zeiss Diatals because they have slightly longer eye releif, slightly larger field of view, are smaller and lighter than the S&B. But I could live with only the S&B !!
The other two 4x, the Kollmorgen and the Redfield Bear Cub are, in my point of view, two of the better USA made fixed scopes. Both in optics and mechanics. With NOTHING to envy to the Zeiss...! Presently not mounted in any rifle. I also have a Zeiss Victory 1,5-6x42 and a Schmidt & Bender 1,5-6x42. Both great scopes with an advantage to the Zeiss because its longer eye releif. Nothing else.

Regards

PH

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I've heard good things about the March scopes. Anyone have one that can comment?

Hey rc, I'm thinking about getting the 2.5x25x42 Mil with the illuminated MML reticle



Whatcha think?

Hey!

I just went to the link and saw the price

While I think it's probably a great scope, I'd just buy two Leupold Mark IV FF TMR 8-25 if that was the best price I could get!

For hunting, I do like the 2.5 to 25X range options.

One problem that I can see other than the price is that there is no information on the site about whether or not the reticle is a first focal plane or not.

History of Kollmorgen company:

Hi:

Kollmorgen was started c. 1917 by a German Immigrant optical engineer in Brooklyn. They became America's sole maker of submarine periscopes in WWI and were moved by the War Department inland to Northhampton, Ma. to get them away from the coast during WWII. (NY was considered a target for bombers or submraine shelling). Kollmorgen Electro Optics is still in Northhampton and still make Periscopes.

In the early pos-WWII period, the demand for submarine periscopes evaporated. There was a surplus of WWII attack boats and no wars to fight. The Nuclear Navy was still a decade away. So Kollmorgen went on some very lean times. To keep the workforce intact, they produced everything from rifle scopes (for a booming postwar hunting consumer market) to glass ashtrays! Anything to keep the machines working and the workforce together.

The hallmark of the Kollmorgen scopes is incredible optical quality. They were made by the same equipment and machines that were making periscopes, long range naval artillary directors, etc. The optics far outstrip the price that these fetched new and compare favorably to today's best coated optics. The goal wasn't to make a cheap consumer product... it was to do *anything* to keep the workforce together and trained. The consumer was the beneficiary!

Early scopes were Stith branded and had mounts that adjusted, versus having adjustments on the scope. Later ones had traditional dial adjustments. In addition to the consumer versions, they made a 6X that was sourced by the USMC and mounted on their 03A3, Garand and M14 sniper rifles before being succeeded by more modern rifles and Unertl scopes during the Vietnam era.

Redfield acquired Kollmorgen's scope business in, I believe, the late 1950's, though for a while they were co-branded until Redfield took over production.

Kollmorgen Electro-optics still make submarine periscopes, though for many years, the company's main business was Motion Control (servos and motors of high precision.) This business, based in Radford, Va., has been absorbed now by a larger motion control player.

Typical prices for a Bear Cub with the (more usable) dial adjustments are about $100 - 150 in mint condition. Which is a bargain. Non-adjustable w. Stith mounts go for $75 - 100 and are somewhat in demand for Pre '64 Model 70 rifles and similar.

Kollmorgen scopes are eminently usable on today's rifles. I hunt with one on my Sako Finnbear and swear by it. In fact, I am looking for another one (pref. dot reticle) for a Model 70. Anyone have one for sale?

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Pierce

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=9834

Well then rc, how about this IOR?





3.5X18X50 35mm SF MIL/MIL FFP Illuminated MP-8 with zero stop

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Well then rc, how about this IOR?





3.5X18X50 35mm SF MIL/MIL FFP Illuminated MP-8 with zero stop

I'm don't know anything about this one.

I do know that at that price, I would go with the Leupold Mark IV 6.5-20 ERT/FF TMR and save about $800.00

You can get it with the M5 turrets which are in mRad. I just got one.

You can't go wrong! Suspend your disbelief and fear woods!

rc, you will never talk me into a Leupold. I like fine equipment.

July SRM:

Rick C 58 course record

Mike K 53

Steve M 53

Steve H 52

Shane C 51

Tom P 50

Neal T 50

Ray S 49

C Ward 49

Mike F 47

Hoser 47

David E 46

Troy V 45

Paul G 44

Ken ? 43

Stan S 42 high 308

AJ 40

Tom E 39

Glen P 39

Gary D 36

Bob A 33

Brad M 33

Jake P 33

Bruce A 31

Tom H 31

Brad S 31

Brandon 30

Mickey B 30

Kieth T 30

Cory W 30

Jon G 28

Mick 25

Bill P 25

Greg V 25

RJ D 24

Jim P 24


Bill M 22

Jessie D 21

Ken ? 21

Jeremy H 19

Bob S 14

Dave S 13

Scott 8

Kane K 4


August SRM:

Rick C 55
Todd F 54
C Ward 53
Travis C 52 Lonnie D 52 Jimmy H 52 Zak 52
Shane C 51
Dave M 50
Tom P 49 Niel T 49
Fritz A 48 Bill M 48 High 308 A J 48
Tom E 47 Mike K 47
Dave N 46 Geordie R 46
Jason C 45 George D 45 RJ D 45 Gene K 45 Ken K 45 Glen P 45
Steve H 44 Tom H 44 Gary M 44
Sheldon B 43 David E 43
Mike F 42 Jeff H 42 Chris R 42
Jason H 41 Joe W 41
Doug D 40 Fermin O 40 Lige H 40 Stan S 40
Mick L 39 Ben M 39
Vance B 38 Shane G 38 Tate M 38
Paul G 37 Blake W 37
Micke B 36
Bruce A 33
Jon G 32 John S 32
Tim M 31
Brett H 29
Jake P 27 Jim P 27
Rick B 26 Gary D 26 Mark Q 26
Troy V 25
Cary W 23
Jess D 22
Amy W 20
Justin O 19
Curtis B 17
Jeremy H 14
Steve A 13
Bob S 7 Greg V 7
Chris B 3
Jim M DNF


February SRM:


Paul G 55
Rick C 51
Tom P 45 Sternberg 45 Paul Y 45
Fritz A 43 Zak 43
James V 41 Ken W 41
Gary D 40 Mike F 40 Manuel 40 high 308
C Ward 39
Brian J 38 Mike K 38 Ray S 38
Jason 37
Chaz 36
Mike A 32 Stan S 32
Little Bob 31
Bill M 30
Walter W 29
Doug 25
Dale B 24
Ken 20
Ron 19
Janna 13 Jeff 13


Yeah, I guess that Leupold really sucks!



If you'd like, I could post all the major Sporting events I won with my $800 Browning auto over the years against guys using "fine equipment" in the 20K range too?

Function over Form

Indian trumps the Arrow

either your wallet is to big or your brain is to small. Theres probably more leupolds on rifles picking up trophys then all the others combined.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
rc, you will never talk me into a Leupold. I like fine equipment.

King Optics Canada Ltd

King Optics is a Canadian company with a mission of providing top quality optical equipment to the sportsman and outdoor enthusiast. Our products include riflescopes, spotting scopes, binoculars, telescopes and other hunting accessories.

Our Canadian engineers and designers are working hard to bring a more expansive line of top quality products to the sportsman and outdoor hunting enthusiast. In addition to our top quality optical products, we are expanding our product line to include high quality outdoor gear, hunting gear, footwear and accessories.

Warranty on Riflescopes:

King Optics Canada offers a Lifetime Replacement Warranty on all riflescopes we sell. This warranty is valid for the original purchaser only. Proof of purchase must be supplied.

http://www.kingoptics.com/dangerousgame.htm

Does anyone have one of these Canadian made scopes that can comment on them for us?

Thanks
Warrior

Hey rc, I wouldn't say that I believe you can lay your winning or placing in competitions at the feet of Leupold. I do think Loop-old is a functional optical sighting device. Your success is due to your shooting abilities (and my coaching on some of the finer issues of reloading), not to your scope.

Come to think of it, it is a good strategy for you to use Loop-old so that none of the other competitors can claim you beat them because you had better equipment!

Hey Lloyd Small, ever notice how big wallets kinda follow around the smartest people? Just sayin

rc, how about this one that JWP recommended

5x25x56 FFP MIL Schmidt & Bender





kinda heavy, no zero stop but S&B glass

Awe, shucks!

Thanks for the compliment!

The point is, why pay a premium for a product when there is one available that will get the job done just as well for a lot less? The more expensive scopes aren't gonna help you put a bullet where you want it any better and 100K$ shotguns don't make you win National Championships.

Everybody spends their $ where they see fit.

For instance, I think the Leupold glass is sufficient and nice. You're not gonna spend a lot of time "glassing" through your rifle scope. I put my dollars in the binoculars; Leica Geovid 15x56's. Some may think that's crazy.

If money isn't an issue, any of the high$$$$ scopes will be great; the S&B's are supposed to be awesome!

Let me know what you do then, when it gets warm enough for you (I know how you Texas Boys are) come shoot with me!

I came across this ... Russian scopes ... being sold in the USA. I quoted from their website:

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/k...ka-optics-warehouse/

You can write to: writing directly to info(at)kalinkaoptics.com.
We are located at:
Kalinka Optics
10608 W Sample Road
Coral Springs, Florida 33065, USA

Fax: 888 817 8097

Why Kalinka Optics?

Our Commitment to Customer Service
Thanks for stopping by The Warehouse®, your one-stop source for all of your optics and accessory needs. You'll love our emphasis on customer service. We have the low prices and unique selection you require but our focus on providing great customer service is the difference. Shopping with Kalinka Optics Warehouse® should be your first choice because we do business the right way. We're fast, friendly, and we get it right the first time. Shop with us and you are assured of a smooth transaction. And that's what you want out of an online store, isn't it!

Our Products
Kalinka Optics Warehouse® specializes in Soviet, Russian and East European military optics and rifle accessories. All the optics we carry are of impeccable quality while selling at a serious discount to comparable Western-produced models. Our rifle accessories are all OEM equipment made in Russia usually on a contract basis for the Red Army. Throughout its existence, the USSR was a leader in military optics. After the Soviet Army entered Germany in WWII, they made a concerted effort to occupy as many industrial factories as possible. They occupied the majority of the German optical plants, including the famous Carl Zeiss-Jena factory. They then took the technology and tooling back to Russia, added their own refinements and began to build similar but even more advanced optics. We think you'll find our products to be extremely rugged and a great value.

You are invited to compare our quality, selection and prices to the typical mail-order supply house or those at your local discount department store, photo shop or nature store. All of our optics have precision ground, multi-coated glass lenses -- no plastic lenses here. The optics featured here will give the much more expensive US, Japanese and German optics you see advertised a real run for the money! As always you have the comfort of knowing that regardless of the optics you have chosen, you'll always have Kalinka Optics Warehouse's® Full 12-month Factory Warranty and 15-day, money-back guarantee as well as any additional factory warranties.*

Warrior

quote:

Hey Lloyd Small, ever notice how big wallets kinda follow around the smartest people? Just sayin

My experience is that the big wallets follow the people with the least amount of ethics.

Let us talk about scopes and not wallets. Let us share our experiences and not begrudge each other as to who wastes money or who cannot afford a more expensive scope.

We are just debating the merits of scopes, either good or bad, and sometimes we just do not have all the facts on the table, and this is where we need all the input from various users.

Thanking you.
Warrior

We're waiting for Warrior's thread here to appear locally on bookshelves.

Check out this link: http://www.kaps-optik.de/english/index_netscape.htm

It is an old German company, they produce only 4.000 scopes p.a.

The new Kaps rifle scope 1-4x22 BA with illuminated daylight reticle was designed for users with high quality
requirements for quick reaction shots during the drive hunting. It is well designed for bright and rough lighting conditions. With the red dot it provides a precise and easy sight against the dark body of a moving animal.

Warrior

Most people with a lot of money got it by not spending foolishly. And I have 25 years in public accounting seeing how people spend their money.

Hi Warrior,

A friend of mine, really a Master Hunter from Belgium, came here a few years ago with a nice Blaser R93 in 8x68. It had a Kaps scope 2,5-10x56 Iluminated Reticle. For me, one of the best scopes I saw throught! Incredible optics and a well designed IR. The mechanics cannot be judged only seeing the scope, but seems to be very good. And these variable Kaps are almost identical in form and dimentions as the variable Schmidt & Bender scopes...

Leupold Customer Service/Warranty Report


Just received my VXIII LR VH reticle 6.5-20 with target knobs back from Leupold. It had a problem accurately dialing. They replaced the guts.

I just returned from my smith's where a precision scope mount was performed and the scope evaluated in all facets of functioning.

It dials with perfect accuracy on the board and tracks perfectly vertically. We also checked the reticle aimpoint subtension spacing to see if what they say is correct (MOA distance between the aimpoints and at which power). My gunsmith says it's one of the best he's seen

Which dangerous game Scope?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=516784

These are some comments from Chris Farris:-

"The Kahles is an excellent scope and easily better than the Leupold you mention. Don't skimp on a dangerous game hunt in any way...whether it be the gun, ammo, mounts, hunt itself or the scope. If it is a one time hunt and money is tight then take the scope off and sell it when the hunt is complete. The all new Kahles Helia CSX 1.1-4x24 was designed and built to be the ultimate dangerous game scope. The new illuminated version with a special dangerous game reticle will be available soon."

When asked:-

"Is it possible for you to describe the technical reasons why the Kahles is so much better than the Leupold VX2 and VX3?"

He replied:-

"The most notable difference is that the Kahles scope uses much higher end glass and coatings making it brighter and clearer. The illuminated versions uses an all new technology never before seen in scopes. The reticle uses digital dimming technology with click control and even has a memory for preselecting brightness levels that work best for a given situation, this can be activated with one simple click. The scope was designed and built to have an illuminated reticle and utilizes a multifunction control located on the side of the scope (opposite the windage adjustment).

The Leupold has a rather obtrusive knob located on the eye piece. The Kahles has a red ring indicator to let you know the reticle is on and even has a spare battery compartment. The Kahles has the reticle set in the second focal plane so the reticle remains constant, the Leupold does not. The 1.1-4 Kahles has a field of view of 10.6 meters - 37 meters at 100 meters. The Leupold 1.5-5 has a field of view of 7.9 meters - 21.9 meters at 100 meters."

Chris Farris

Sleek 4x Scopes

Sleek 4x scopes are becoming scarce, but here are some that are still readily available:

Sightron S2 4x32
Weaver Anniversary Classic K 4x32
Weaver Classic 4x38
Lynx LX2 4x38
Leupold FX 4x33

Zeiss made an excellent 4X32 in the Conquest series until recently, but no more.

European 4x scopes are very good:
IOR 4x32 mm (also highly rated at have the price of the German scopes)
S&B 4x36 mm
Kahles 4x36 mm (This one we have on a 375 H&H - super scope in all respects)

"Powderburn" telling it the way it is and yet again the point is being made about short-tubed scopes that are difficult to fit:-

"The growing demise of the fixed power scopes is one of the biggest regrets I see in the shooting industry right now. I can certainly understand it in an economic sense as most of today's hunting/shooting crowd think you have to have at least a 12 power scope to hit an target the size of an elk at 300 yds, but don't get me started about that.

I do however think the scope manufacturers have some responsibility in this as they have not priced their fixed power scopes to appeal to the market IMHO. Heck you can buy a VX-II 3-9x40 for about the same as a FX 4x33. This really doesn't make much sense as there are less moving parts to assemble and there should be less CS costs if in deed they are less likely to break. So to the average consumer why not get all the bells and whistles on the 3-9 for the same price. The second problem is many of the 4x offerings are built to be compact so they don't fit on a LA rifle very well.

The old steel tube Weavers were one of the best proportioned scopes ever produced and fit on almost any rifle. I really see a nice niche here for the new Redfield company to introduce a nice fixed 4x and 6x to compete with the Weaver K series. and if Leupold was smart they would market a fixed 4x and 6x in the $199-$225 price range and then have the FX-III higher end stuff. Just my $.02.

Oh and yes I have 2 of my 5 rifles fitted with fixed power scopes and use another as my backup scope."

Powderburn
Edited by powderburn - February/10/2011 at 08:52

From the IOR Valdda web site:

We still love fixed power scopes. This one is the only 1" scope tube we still make. Available reticles: German 1A post, German 4A, 7A / duplex. Superior optics, Classic European design lines, spectacular field of view and great low light performance.

Main Information:

The 4x32 Hunter is our most streamlined rifle scope, and it is an ideal choice when you are aiming for fast target acquisition and a wide field of view. The scope features finger-adjustable turrets with caps for convenience and extra protection in the field. Like all IOR riflescopes, it is environmentally sealed and will operate in temperatures ranging from -40° to +140° F. Fast focus ocular adjustment and glass reticules are all standard. A super quality scope and a great value.

Other Features:

Waterproof
Fogproof
Wide angle ocular with European fast focus adjustment
Finger-adjustable knobs with caps
Photo engraved glass reticle
MC-7 Fully multicoating technology with anti-reflex layers eliminating glare and maximizing light transmission
One piece steel tube, "O" ring sealed and nitrogen filled
Superior optical glass by Schott Glasswerk, Germany

Technical Data:

Magnification .......................................4x
Objective diameter...............................32mm
Field of view at 1000 yards....................290 feet
Exit pupil diameter................................8mm
Eye relief.............................................3.75 inches
Diopter adjustment...............................-4 to +4 DPT
Reticle adjustment range.......................68 MOA
Click adjustment...................................1/2" @ 100
Tube diameter.......................................1 inch
Length..................................................11.5 inches
Weight..................................................14.5 oz
Finish....................................................Satin black


http://swfa.com/IOR-4x32-Hunti...fle-Scope-P6742.aspx

Warrior

The only thing that the eyepeice focus does is focus the Reticle.
It does NOT have anything to do with Parallax.

From the Leupold Answer Guide:

A Clear Understanding of Parallax:

Often, people will pick up and use technical terms without really understanding their meaning. Take, for instance, the term parallax. How often have you heard people talk about parallax? Do you know what it means? Can you explain it to other shooters? If you can't, you're not alone. Many people are confused as to just what this term means. Quite simply, parallax is the situation that occurs when the reticle and the image are not in the same optical plane, causing the image to be unclear or to move in relation to the reticle. "Wait a minute, wait a minute," I can hear you say, "what's all this about optical planes?" Remember when you were a kid and you would burn a piece of paper (or a bug) with a magnifying glass by focusing the light of the sun on it? What you were doing was bringing the magnified image of the sun into the same optical plane as the piece of paper. Therefore, when you are bringing the image of the target into the same optical plane as the reticle, you are doing something similar; you are focusing the image of the target onto the reticle. Bringing the image into the plane of the reticle is important because if it is not in the same plane, the image will not be clear and reliable. Just as you had to move the magnifying glass back and forth to focus the image of the sun on the paper or it would be unclear of blurry and not burn the paper, so you have to move the lens of the scope back and forth to bring the image into the reticle plane or it will be unclear and not be useful. This is what we do in the Leupold factory when we set the parallax of the scope to a distance; we move the lens until an image that is a specific distance away, say 150 yards, focuses perfectly on the same plane as the reticle. You are doing the same thing when you adjust the adjustable objective or side focus dial of a scope with one of those features; moving the lens to focus the image on the same plane as the reticle. All of this is important because if the image and the reticle are not in the same plane, the image will be unclear and the reticle will appear to move in relation to the target. If either of these things happens, the result is obvious: you will not have a consistent point of impact. This becomes more important as the magnification of a scope increases - the greater magnification makes the focusing of the image more sensitive to changes in distance from the target. That is why lower magnification scopes are generally set at the factory for a specific distance and higher magnification scopes feature adjustable objectives or side focus dials. Knowing this and being able to explain it clearly will certainly inspire confidence in you on the part of other shooters. It will also help you in your own shooting activities, as you will better be able to understand how your own scope is performing.

How do I Focus the Eyepiece of my Leupold?:

Focusing the Reticle Have you ever looked through a scope and had the reticle seem soft or fuzzy? If so, this means the eyepiece is not properly adjusted to your eye. Focusing is simple with Leupold scopes, because they have a generous focusing range, and because no tools are required. Just follow these steps: Secure the scope and firearm in a firm rest. Point the scope at a light colored background object. With the scope approximately four inches from your eye the reticle should appear sharp and crisp; if it does not, it is necessary to adjust the focus by means of the eyepiece. If your Leupold scope is one of our models with an eyepiece that has a lock ring, follow these simple steps: 1. Grasp the eyepiece with your hand and back it away from the lock ring. Once the lock ring is free from the eyepiece, turn it clockwise away from the eyepiece to keep it out of the way during the adjustment. 2. If you tend to hold things away from yourself to see them clearly (you are far-sighted) turn the eyepiece counter-clockwise by three or four turns. If you hold things close to yourself to see them clearly (you are near-sighted) turn the eyepiece clockwise by three of four turns. 3. Looking through the scope when pointed at the sky, take a few quick glances at the reticle. The focus of the reticle should be noticeably different from when you started. Continue this process until the reticle appears clear and sharp. 4. When you are satisfied with the image of the reticle, turn the lock ring so that it rests firmly against the eyepiece. If your Leupold scope is one of our models with a fast-focus eyepiece, follow these simple steps: 1. All adjustment is made with the eyepiece. 2. Look through the scope with quick glances while focusing the reticle image. If you tend to hold things away from yourself to see them clearly (far-sighted) turn the eyepiece ring counter-clockwise until the reticle is clear and sharp. If you hold them close to yourself to see them clearly (near-sighted) turn the eyepiece ring clockwise until the reticle is sharp and clear. If your eyesight changes, readjust the eyepiece. As we age, eyesight normally changes. You may want to check the sharpness of the reticle on your scope every few years to ensure it is still adjusted correctly for your eye. NOTE: To protect the integrity of the waterproof seal of every Leupold Golden Ring scope, an internal mechanism prevents the eyepiece from coming off the scope.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
Which dangerous game Scope?



"Is it possible for you to describe the technical reasons why the Kahles is so much better than the Leupold VX2 and VX3?"

That in no way is a comparison between similar scopes: The Kahles (apart from being discontinued) is more than four & a half times the cost of a VX3 & more than SIX TIMES the cost of a VX-II(there is no such thing as a VX2).

That's hardly fair now is it?

Comparing them is disingenuous at best

Hi Oddbod,

Just a few observations here:

1) The comments that are made is not mine, and is given the way it appeared on the other forum which I quoted, and that question as to why it is "better" has been answered by Chris Farris.

2) The Kahles scope is not discontinued as far as I know, in fact you can go to their website and you will see that the Kahles Helia CSX 1.1-4x24 is an all new design as to their best effort to be the ultimate dangerous game scope as far as they are concerned. Also with special mention of their new illuminated version with a special dangerous game reticle.

3) The cost aspect is another matter, and it does not deal with being better or being the best. Cost is a value for money concept in the eyes of the hunter. I think the question asked to Chris Farris was a valid question though, to force him to explain his point of view. And remember, it is his opnion.

To summarize his view briefly, he explained that it revolved around the better glass and coatings, the higher level technology that has gone into it, including the reticle, and lastly the better field of view. There is nothing wrong with his explanation as I am sure he can back it up factually. However, you and me do not have to agree that these benefits are so valuable that we have to have the Kahles. We may just take a view that "VALUE FOR MONEY" the Leupold is a "BETTER BUY" for reasons of our own.

4. The selling price comparison is something like this, depending where you buy:

- Leupold Mark 4 Illuminated 1.5-5x20 (European version with comparable 30 mm tube) - List $1125, Street price is in the order of $900, but here is another one ... http://www.militarywarfighter...._a_7cLeupold_d_67905

- Kahles Helia CSX 1.1-4x24 - $2100 at http://www.kahlesusa.com/Hunti...copes/CSX114X24.html

So the price multiple is more like 2100/900 = 2.33 times.

This is more like an apples to apples comparison, not so?

The new agent for Kahles in the USA is:

GAMO Outdoor USA
3911 SW 47th Ave. Suite 914
33314 Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Phone: 954-581-5822
Fax: 954-581-3165

Warrior