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| One of Us |
If the John Deere tills up a Leupold in the pasture, Leupold will fix it or replace it no questions asked. Their customer service is beyond excellent. Besides which, locally it's a cult brand. | |||
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Rothke, They can afford to do so by virtue of them over charging the customer. That said I agree with the idea to buy locally but my wish is that Leupold must beat them on the apects where it has fallen behind. It kinda leaves a bitter taste to admit Asian scopes have better glass - actually an insult for me, and I am not even an American. I do own Leupold scopes. America should bring its manufaturing back and employ Americans, now we see the effect of it - unemployment in the USA and the Asians have work (bread & butter on the table). Warrior | |||
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...would be interesting to know how many employees leupold has state-side...this would provide a sense of the extent to which their scopes are actually assembled in the us (as opposed to, say, merely inspected/tested/packaged)…this would also, concomitantly, evidence the company’s commitment to us industry, a laudable objective if true... | |||
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I believe the Vortex Vipers are being tested to withstand the recoil of the .50BMG. Warrior | |||
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...this is what wikipedia has to say about leupold (see below)...so i suppose it would be safe to say that most of the assembly/inspection/testing/packaging work (in addition to product design + marketing + c/s) is indeed performed state-side...which is, of course, a good thing to say the least... "...By 1996, the company had sales of $100 million.[3] In 1998, the water monitoring portion of Leupold & Stevens was spun off into its own privately held Portland-based business, Stevens Water Monitoring Systems, inc., with Leupold & Stevens also retaining the “Stevens” name as part of their corporate identity[6]. In 2002, Leupold & Stevens won a Wausau Insurance Gold Award for workplace safety at the company’s factory.[7] By 2006, the company employed 600 people at its Beaverton facility.[8] The company is now in its fifth generation of ownership.[2] 2008 sales were reported at $203 million.[citation needed]..." | |||
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As mentioned before, the March scopes are taking the F Class and long-range benchrest world by storm. It is definitely an exciting development for competition, tactical and hunting optics. Theey stepped it up by using ED glass such as is used in Nikkor's professional camera lenses. Obviously it adds to the cost, but competition shooters are not shy to spend the money. I looked through one of their scopes and it is truely clear and bright. Go here ........ http://www.deon.co.jp/march/index.htm Warrior | |||
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http://www.brightguy.com/produ...Dry_Cell_Battery.php Several Duracell(formerly Mallory) batteries are also produced in China. Most button cells (>95%) are made in one of three Chinese factories, no matter what name is applied to them. | |||
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The new Weaver K4, 4x38 mm scope - 80th Anniversary Scope. If you want to read more about this commemorative scope, go here: http://www.opticsplanet.net/we...niversary-scope.html The following comes off the Optics Planet site:- "What is the Micro-Trac 4 Point System? All Weaver Riflescopes have an erector tube. These tubes are equipped with a means to adjust one end. This causes the point toward which the scope is looking (along with the crosshairs) to change. The Micro-Trac 4 Point System is similar to an automobile's dual independent suspension. Any adjustment made to the tube for windage is independent of any elevation changes. Therefore, when you change windage, elevation is unaffected and vice versa. Why the Micro-Trac System is superior? Most conventional conversion systems use 2 screws and 1 spring to adjust their erector tubes. Eventually, adjusting one screw "too much" of your Weaver Rifle Scope will cause the spring to inadvertently affect the adjustment of the other variable. These other systems do not operate independently from one another like the Micro-Trac. Most systems also have the screws baring directly down on the cylinder, whereas the Weaver Micro-Trac System bears down on a specific point of contact. Just like a ball joint in a car, this gives you better precision. The Micro-Trac erector tube is always being directed from the same point; angular motion is consistent. Why does everyone need the Micro-Trac System? The Micro-Trac 4 Point System provides far better control of crosshair adjustments making it much easier to sight-in a rifle. Click adjustments are always consistent to a minute of angle." Warrior | |||
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for what they cost it should have walked home
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Nickel Magnum 1.5-6x30 EDS Here is an interesting design by a high quality manufacturer that only sells directly to the public; no middlemen shaving the profit off. It states that it features a 4.9" eye-relief for high recoiling rifles with a small ocular bell of only 36 mm so it does not get in the way of one's hand when fast cycling of the bolt is necessary. Designed for the DG hunter. At 1,875 Euros with the No. 4 reticle it is more pricey than most others, but may be the quality is also higher. Go here for more info: http://www.nickel-ag.com/en/pr...ts/scopes/15630.aspx Warrior | |||
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Interesting that there is no mention in this very informative list of scopes made by the John Unertl Optical Company.  I used one with good effect on my Remington Varmint Special 22-250Rem until the whole rig was stolen. | |||
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Scopes for Dangerous Game .... by Robert Boatman http://scopesfordangerousgame....up-your-view-of.html Warrior | |||
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DURACELL batteries for the USA market are made in the USA, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia. I worked for Duracell International as an engineer for years and have been to all these plants. They also have other US plants that make or assemble various components or packaging. One of the secrets of the battery business is that there isn't enough business in all the little button cell type batteries for all the manufacturers to make them, so they are often outsourced to a COMPETITOR, who may make them in another country. MALLORY(the original name of Duracell many decades ago) was the inventor of the alkaline cell. Duracell does have facilities in Belgium where they make batteries for the Euopean and other markets, not for the US. | |||
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Hi Dave, Here is some info on the Unertl scope - used extensively by the US military. As for hunting I do not know much about it. Unertl scopes have been replaced a while back by Schmidt and Bender for the USMC contract. I think the Unertl scopes are more of a collectors item today. http://www.snipercountry.com/I...nertl_GoesPublic.asp FORT WORTH, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 29, 2001 21st Century Technologies Inc. (Pink Sheets:TEXN) today announced the acquisition of the John Unertl Optical Company. In October of 2000, 21st Century purchased the assets, patents and the Unertl trademark. The John Unertl Company was founded in 1934 and its primary objective has been to offer the American Sportsman Unertl Rifle and Spotting Telescopes with optical sighting equipment of the highest quality combined with the latest technology. Unertl offers precision instruments manufactured for commercial and military use. Since purchasing Unertl, 21st Century Technologies has evaluated the assets and inventory and will soon begin production of the scopes. The goal of the company is to manufacture the same scopes with a policy of continuous improvement. Extensive repair and reconditioning service for any Unertl Scope will be offered at the Mars, Pa. location. The Fort Worth base will handle all manufacturing. 21st Century Technologies and its wholly owned subsidiaries attended the SHOT Show in New Orleans from Jan. 11-14. SHOT is the acronym for Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade, and represents the largest show of its kind in the world. At the show Unertl announced to the public that it would manufacture and sell publicly the genuine and original Unertl Scopes. Company executives will also pursue the government contracts that Unertl has held for a decade. Manufacturing is slated to commence the second quarter of 2001. The company intends to broaden its product line and already has several new scope designs in process. Financial statements in this news release other than historical facts are "forward-looking" statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. The company intends that such statements about its future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other forward-looking statements (i.e. future operational results and sales) involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time. The company's actual results could differ materially from expected results. Subsequent to the above we had further change of ownership and developments - go here for more info: http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/y....pl?num=1235759204/0 Warrior | |||
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Zeiss Conquest specials may still be availabale: The Conquest 4x and 1.8-5.5x are being discontinued and out on special. I just looked and at Cameraland all is sold out. There may still be other dealers that have a last few. If someone knows who still have stock, please make a posting here for members who may be interested. I have seen very good reviews on these two 2 scopes. Warrior | |||
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Here in SA most people know very little about the optics company Meopta. Just some background: Meopta is an international company with a long rich tradition of developing and making world class optical products. Meopta operates state of the art facilities in both the United States and the Czech Republic. In the Sates, Meopta U.S.A. Inc. with headquarters in Long Island NY is a state of the art manufacturing, assembly, and engineering facility that is home to their aerospace, general defense contracting and North American sports optics divisions. Fully ISO certified, over 120 highly skilled associates manufacture, service and support a broad array of technologically advanced optical systems and assemblies for the industrial, military and consumer markets.For 77 years Meopta has been manufacturing some of the most technologically advanced, high performance optical products in the world. From precision medical and scientific devices to digital cinematic projectors, optics for space exploration, military weapons systems and consumer sports optics. Back to their latest scope offering - namely their 1" scope: The Meopta MeoPro 3-9x42 Riflescope is a classic1" tube hunting scope that offers good glass and at a price point of S400 it is very affordable at $400, being cheaper than its European opposition - the Minox and the Conquest. This scope is not well marketed in many parts of the world, but is designed and engineered to European standards and is setting the bar as the most affordable premium 1" scope. The hunter should be pleased to know that 3-9x42 has an eye relief of 3.75" weight is 14.9 oz altough in the specs it is given as 16 oz. Also actual measured eye relief is 3.68 @ 3X........3.52 @ 9X magnification. The Meopro scopes DO USE THE EXACT SAME GLASS as the Meostar R1 known for its brightness. Meopta is using the same proprietary lens coating MB550 Ion Assisted lens coating that is able to yield 99.8% light transmission per lens coating being the highest in the industry! From the midway website some technical detail: The Meopta Meopro Rifle Scope is a premium scope that provides hunters with crisp and clear images from dawn until dusk. The fully multi-coated lenses feature MB550 Ion Assisted Coatings to provide an amazing 99.8% light transmission per lens surface which will allow you to shoot earlier in the morning and later in the evening. Other features of the Meopro include precision MeoTrak II posi-click finger adjustable windage and elevation turrets, a fast focus eyepiece plus a premium internal optics assembly that is designed to withstand the heaviest recoil. If you have been searching for a new scope for your hunting rifle, look no further than the Meopta Meopro. Technical Information Tube Diameter: 1" Adjustment Click Value: 1/4 MOA Adjustment Type: Click Exposed Turrets: No Finger Adjustable Turrets: Yes Turrets Resettable to Zero: No Zero Stop: No Turret Height: Low Fast Focus Eyepiece: Yes Lens Coating: Fully multi-coated Warranty: Lifetime factory warranty Rings Included: No Sunshade Included: No Sunshade Length: N/A Lens Covers Included: No Power Variability: Variable Min power: 3x Max power: 9x Reticle Construction: Glass etched Reticle: M-Plex Illuminated Reticle: No Holdover reticle: No Reticle Focal Plane Location: 2nd Parallax Adjustment: No Finish: Matte Water/Fogproof: Yes Shockproof: Yes Airgun Rated: No Objective Bell Diameter: 50mm Ocular Bell Diameter: N/A Eye Relief: 3.75" Max Internal Adjustment: 70 MOA Exit Pupil Diameter: 14-4.67mm Weight: 16 oz Field of View at 100 Yards: 36.3' @ 3x 12.1' @ 9x The June/July double issue of Outdoor Life has a comparison & rating of 16 scopes, including the 1" Meopta MeoPro 3-9x42. They have it rated as a "Great Buy", and they describe it as a "killer value" and say that it performs like a scope twice the price. Optical quality is rated 4th best behind these: Swarovski Z5 3.5-18x44, Weaver Super Slam 3-15x42, and Kahles Helia CSX 2.5-10x50, and is rated ahead of others like: Leupold VX-3L, Minox ZA5, Nikon M-223, Vortex Viper, and surprisingly the Zeiss Victory Diavari 6-24x72 which finished 5th in optical quality but rated A+ in image, as compared to a B+ image for the MeoPro. "Testers correctly called Meopta's entry into the riflescope category a "killer value". Optically it performed like a scope twice its price, and panelists noted its clarity across its magnification range. The geometry of the 1-inch tube is a bit boxy, but that's a minor criticism for a marvelous, fairly priced scope." If interested read Koshkin's review: Born in Europe, Assembled in US http://opticsthoughts.com/inde...ope-reviews&Itemid=4 Warrior | |||
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This is the first I've seen this thread. All things Scopes has been an interesting topic for me for some time and I have some good experience and thoughts to share. I shoot precision/tactical matches, Sporting Rifle Matches where small targets are engaged at up to 900 yards and, of course, I hunt. Before I began to have an interest in any competitive target or long range shooting/hunting, I only hunted. I shot varmints, prarie dogs and big game with a rifle. The scopes I used were used like any guy who was a casual hunter used them; mounted securely on a rifle, sighted in and left til something changed. Never knew enough about shooting a rifle to venture into knowing ballistic data to dial into a target knob, just "held over and hoped" if the shot was long. For this shooter, just about any scope with a crosshair and decent glass that will hold a -0-will do and many lower end scope manufacturers will meet the needs. These are the needs of probably 95% of rifle shooters. For the shooter/hunter that is "more into it" than the average who needs to be able to accurately put shots on small targets at longer ranges, the above scope is basically an improved upon iron sight. I have owned Leupold, Burris, Weaver, Bushnell scopes. I have a good friend who is my gunsmith; one of the best in the country. He is a competitive shooter as well. He has designed a "jig" on which to perform precision scope mounting where the scope is set in the rings precisely level to a precisely level barreled action. The scope can then be evaluated as to function and to accuracy of any ballistic reticle subtensions. He has constructed a sighting board at a specific distance in his parking lot that is accurately marked in MOA and mRad on the vertical. A precisely mounted scope can be tested for tracking, accuracy in dialing (if 7.5 MOA are dialed, how much did the mechanism move the reticle?) etc. The results of mounting and testing many different manufacturers products are interesting to know, and I know them. You would be astounded at the dismal failings of some of the scopes you have listed. Mil dot scopes where the reticle marked in mils are not even close to accurate. Elevation and Windage turrets that when dialed do not move the reticle the amount marked on the turret... And on and on. He has passed this information on to many of the manufacturers who make scopes that basically don't work. Back to Leupold. His testing has yielded results on Leupold scopes. He, I and many guys I know use the Leupold Mark IV FF TMR and we use it for a reason. The scopes work in all facets from function to reticle subtension accuracy. I have used the scope to set a course record at the SRM at Whittington, have won two of the events and finish well just about every time. I have two VX-II's on hunting rifles that I have installed aftermarket Stoney Point target knobs on and they function flawlessly. I have dialed and shot things at 930 yards. Not bad for a 400$ scope. Have I ever had a problem with a Leupold product? Yes I have, but this is where their fantastic customer service shines over other manufacturers....they actually fix them. I believe that Leupold scopes are a great value and for my application only NightForce is on par. | |||
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rcamuglia, Just curious if you ever tested any Sightron SIII or SII big sky scopes with the gunsmith setup. Some competition shooters use Sightron and was wondering how they compare to NF or Leupold. Thanks BigB | |||
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Yes, in fact Sightron has failed terribly on the Jig. My gunsmith has tested more than one of their models. I have a buddy who was a little cost conscious so my smith gave a 6-20 power with target turrets and a mil dot reticle a try. I'm not sure of the model, but a second focal plane scope. The mil dots were not even close to being Mils on any power setting and the target turrets moved the reticle in a fashion unrelated to what the markings were. It was immediately returned and my buddy opted for the same scope I have At the first SRM he won the .308 class the first time he used the new rifle in competition. | |||
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you know, back when I first got out of college, got a "real job" and started to be able to afford "better" scopes, I too thought boy those leupolds just seem overpriced compared to many of the japanese scopes etc that offered "better" glass for less money. But then a strange thing happened, I purchased scopes by Weaver, Bausch & Lomb (now Bushnell elite) Burris, Leupold, Nikon...pretty much you name it I have owned it in the "middle of the road" priced brands (no not swarovskis and zeiss', they're just a bit too rich for my blood). Yes, Weaver Grand Slams and Nikon Monarch's have some nice glass. On a nice bright sunny day they often seem to be marginally sharper than a Leupold or Burris, etc. But strangely in real world hunting and shooting situations I started to find that often the Burris and Leupold scopes seemed preferable to me. The Leupolds offered a less restrictive field of view, were less fussy about eye position, had nice eye relief, and were WAY easier to mount. (I finally actually sold my Weaver Grand Slam because, even though it may have had some of the nicest glass of any scope I owned, man it was a pia to try to mount on a rifle. Something about the short length and long bell etc and you couldn't get it positioned right with standard rings.) I've had similar problems with my Nikon Monarch--only actually fit on one of my rifles without having to go to offset rings or something. I have NEVER had that problemw with a Leupold--slap them on any rifle in my collection and there is no problem properly positioning them. Yes, Leupold's may seem a bit pricier than similar quality foreign brands, but they still seem to get things overall better somehow, the best blending to me of qualities. Do I still own scopes by multiple manufacturers and would any of them do for most folks? You bet. But there is certainly nothing wrong with Leupold's and they have much to recommend them. It's unfortunate so many folks like to bash them really, often ones I suspect have never owned them. Sort of like the folks who tell you you don't NEED 4wd or awd in the snow, you can get by JUST FINE with fwd's and all seasons--always know they have never owned a 4wd or awd with snows, because yes you CAN get through the winter without them--and I have many years--and yes it's more money for 4wd and awd and they have their issues, but damn every time you are going 30 miles an hr through that white knuckle blizzard you are thinking "damn am I glad I went for 4wd..." and they are not at ALL the same in the white stuff... | |||
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rcamuglia, Welcome and thanks for posting on this thread to share your experience with us as well as from your gunsmith's testing. This is what this thread is all about to learn about what works and what does not. Please list the findings of your gunsmith on all scopes tested. This is what we need to look at from all angles, and with different tests by different people. That way we get the most balanced info on the table. I would appreciate if you could compile a report for us on the items that were being tested. Thank you Warrior | |||
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IMHO there is more to a scope then just the glass. Fit,durability. I to buy mid range scopes and will pay a little more for peace of mind. | |||
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Without having a conversation with him about every brand he's tested at this time of night, I can certainly comment on the Burris scopes I own and have personally tested on his Jig. His experience with Burris mirrors this story. Before I go into the particulars, I know there are a lot of Burris fans out there. Most of them must fit into the 95%tile I was speaking of in my first post. The glass is clear and nice and the scope has a crosshair. That's about the extent of the nice things I have to say about them. Mine are for sale for anyone who is a fan. I have 3 of them; 2- 8-32 Signatures and a 6-24 signature. The 32x had target knobs. They would not return to -0- after dialing. Their total travel is pitiful at about 17 MOA. A 30mm Leupold has about 80 MOA of travel. I sent them back to Burris to have them repaired. At the same time I told them to put target knobs on the 6-24 I had. The repairs were free and the knob installation was $80. When they got back, I went to my smith to have them put on. They are on my prarie dog rifles; a .223 and a 22-.250. We put them on the Jig.....  On one when you dial 7.5 MOA, the reticle moves 7MOA. On another, when 7.5 MOA is dialed the reticle moves 8 MOA. They are simple duplex reticles. Here is a pic of the $80 target knobs. I hope you can make out the details as I just took the pic with my phone. Note that it is a 1/8" click scope. But look at the distance between 8 MOA and -0- which would be a full revolution. It is only 1/2 MOA or 4 clicks. If you need to dial anything past 8 MOA, you'll be between the marked numbers for whole MOA! WTF???  I called them and went around and around with them explaining the dialing issues and the stupid target knobs that I actually paid $80 for. Josh is the lead tech. After having good conversation with him he knew he was talking to someone who was informed. He was embarrassed at the design of the knobs and said he has spoken to the designers about them before to no avail. He also knows about the dialing issues. I told them it was unacceptable to me and I expected them to stand behind their product no matter what. He told me he would talk to his boss and call me back. He did the next day. They would not fix them because they were as good as they were able to make them. He actually told me to sell them and they would give me a deal on their tactical models! Yeah, right! More like sell them and buy ones that work and are backed by quality folks with a no nonsense guarantee! Leupold! | |||
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Hey rc, I just noticed something on your gunsmith's "Super Whamo-Dyne scope thingy" as HC calls it. Is that blue metal level sitting on the top of the elevation turret? ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Yes woods. It's really the most important part if the Jig. IIRC, he said it costs around $450. It is super sensitive. The bubble is huge. The glass is very long. You can also notice the entire jig is on 1" aluminum plate or heavier. The leveling knobs are on the corners. A piece of metal is screwed to an action screw hole then clamped securely into the device. The barrel rests on some kind of nylon dowel rod at the other end. | |||
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Another nugget of info on the Leupold Mark IV on my .300 WM. I just returned from the Sporting rifle match at Whittington last weekend. On practice day, Saturday, we have a 1700 yard target to shoot at. The guys who have .338's bang away at it. I tried to hit it; it took 58 MOA or about 4 full revolutions on the Mark IV turrets. I dialed back down to my 100 yard -0- and shot a group to make sure I was on for the competition in the morning. The scope returned to -0-. It also holds -0- dialing up and down for 60 targets all day long. | |||
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So how do you know the turret was made square with the reticle? I have seen threads where some have complained of having a problem with this. Should I look them up? Is this the same Leupold Mark IV on your 300 win mag that you had to send back to Leupold because the clicks were not true?   ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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My gunsmith has seen scopes where the adjustment may not be square. I have one. We tried to do a quicky mount on a rifle where we just put a level on the top of the actual target knob. When we were done, I mounted the gun and could see the reticle wasn't level. We then used the Jig and did a precision mount. The reticle tracks perfectly vertically. No. The Leupold I sent back recently was a VX-III VH Reticle with target knobs. The first time I used it to dial anything was for a target at 760 yards. I dialed in the data and made a hit. I then dialed a 1300 target and it shot way low. I dialed to the impact and made a second round hit. I thought it was a data problem but I think the erector system failed when dialing to 1300 (32 MOA on that rifle). The reason I think that is because after I finalized the load on that rifle I went out to shoot steel and nail down the data. I started having data/dialing discrepencies at about 500 and the 760 yard data I dialed in and made a hit with before was about 1.5 MOA not enough. I took the scope over to the Jig and the board and found that the more you dialed, the less it actually moved the reticle....I sent it back and am waiting for its return now. Surely you know that things with moving parts fail from time to time now, don't you woods?! Time to join the other 5% without the bailing wire and duct tape!  | |||
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...great video post that speaks well of leupold...thanks for posting... | |||
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To hint that a Nightforce scope is on par with a Leupold is swapping things around. The NF is costing more than dubble the price of a Leupold and made to a far higher standard, its up to special military standard. The NF is particularly known for its accuracy with its internal adjusment system. "The spring that maintains pressure on our elevation and windage adjustments spends two weeks in a polishing tumbler before going into a Nightforce scope, to assure there are no rough spots or burrs to interfere with perfectly smooth operation. It is made of pure titanium, the only known metal in the world that can be repeatedly compressed and held in place, even for years, without developing fatigue or “memory.” This guarantees zero loss of integrity, zero loss of repeatability. It is many times more expensive than comparable springs found in most scopes. But, we are not concerned with a few dollars. We are concerned with building the best riflescope." .... and .... "We machine the screw that controls elevation adjustments to an unbelievable 110 threads per inch. It is so precise that it must be mated to its receiver by hand. Why go to so much trouble? Because we consider backlash clearance of more than 1/30 the thickness of a human hair unacceptable" .... from the NF website. The old saying of you get what you pay for has still some vailidity to some extent. Nightforce: We know for example that the optics in NF scopes are being supplied by L.O.W. Nightforce makes a top quality scopes and are renowned for being mechanically sound, as proven in extreme military conditions as a sniper scope. Optically they are good, but not in the class of the S&B in low light conditions. Mechanically their internals are among the most durable and precise of any optic on the market. For example the thickness of the tube body of Nightforce scopes is two to three times thicker than most any other riflescope; this adds to the thermal stability which aids in maintaining a consistent zero and reduces deformation of internal components, thus improving tracking and repeatability. Nightforce NXS riflescopes are tested to three atmospheres or 66 feet of water. Thermal stability is tested by freezing the scopes in a nitrogen atmosphere to -80º F and then heated to 250º F in a one-hour period. Function is checked at both temperature extremes. Recoil and impact is tested at 1,200 Gs for both positive and negative forces. NF scopes compete with the Valdada IOR scopes that uses Schott glass, but the IOR scopes that are made in Romania, have better glass all the way around, it's brighter, clearer and more crisp at a lower price point. Unfortunately Nightforce does not offer many reticle options for the hunter. From Daniel Lilja's website: http://www.riflebarrels.com/pr...ightforce_scopes.htm Why buy a Nightforce scope from us? 1. We've been a Nightforce dealer from their beginning. We know the product line. Based on our experience we can guide you towards the scope that will work best for your application. 2. We're close to the Nightforce factory and we talk to the staff there often. That means that if we don't have the particular scope and reticle combination you're looking for we can usually get it the next day. 3. If you're not completely satisfied with a Nightforce scope you buy from us within 30 days you can return it for a refund (less a minor restocking fee) - provided the scope has not been abused. 4. Inventory. We keep a large stock of Nightforce scopes and accessories on hand for same-day shipping. Read more on the NF website: http://nightforceoptics.com/ni...LOGY/technology.html "You cannot buy a higher quality riflescope. That’s a strong claim, without a doubt. But, it’s a claim we can prove. And our customers do prove it…every day, under some of the harshest, most unforgiving conditions on earth...... read the rest by clicking o the link above." Warrior | |||
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At $400 it is very hard to beat the Zeiss Conquest on value for money. The 3-9x40 mm scopes remain the mainstay for cost effective hunting. New generation scopes with 4x, 5x and 6x eretors all come at a premium. http://swfa.com/Zeiss-3-9x40-C...ifle-Scope-P608.aspx Here is a video clip on the Conquest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOV4Tr7V8rs Warrior | |||
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The NightForce NXS 5.5-22 is priced about $1700 The Leupold Mark IV 8-25 FF TMR is priced the same. I guess it depends on the models you want to compare and what the usage will be.
Like I posted earlier, most hunters use their scope like a glorified Iron sight. Sight it in at a range they are comfortable shooting at and never touch it. They shoot at game that is never outside the point blank range of the sight in. This is fine. I have gathered that this customer's criteria for what constitutes a "fine scope" is basically how clear the glass is and if it holds -0-. If they shoot at longer ranges, they must "hold over and hope". The "hold over and hope" method is nothing more than a guess, is extremely imprecise and may have terrible consequences for the parties involved. I work hard on load development for all of my rifles whether they be a hunting gun or a target gun. I want them to be as accurate as they are capable. I am capable of shooting well with any of them out to their effective range on game or on targets. With every rifle I own I have worked diligently to confirm the drop data for the load. It follows then that I want to use a scope that does not limit the capability of the rifle, the load, or the shooter. My idea of what a rifle is for is not the same as everyone's. For my needs, a scope with target knobs that function properly, good glass, and enough magnafication to insure long range accuracy is necessary. Anything less will shortchange my ability and my rifle's capability. For my hunting needs, these factors are met with a scope as simple as the $425 Leupold VXII LRV duplex. I have added aftermarket target knobs to the coin slot adjustments. The scope turrets function and dial accurately. The LRV duplex is a ballistic reticle that functions well for accurate holdover. I also own scopes with the VH reticle which is more sophisticated. The ballistic reticles work well for holdover confirmed with actual shooting, yet the scope is also fitted with target knobs for instances when time is permitted to accurately dial. I realize that equipment needed varies with the type of target. I'm sure for DG, the scope choice is much different. Here are some pics of my friend who started out setting up his rifle with the Sightron mil dot scope that we discovered didn't work. These pics are from the SRM at Whittington; the first match he shot with his newly put together .308 with the Leupold Mark IV TMR FF 8-25X. He won the .308 class against many others with more experience (first year shooter) and actually finished with a better score than most others using ballistically superior cartridges than the .308.     The Leupold took home the $  | |||
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Here's a few pictures from the SRM showing the sight in/practice range. The targets are steel hangers from 220 to 930 for practice. The smaller hangers are 6" up to about 350 yards and the rest are 12" from there on out.    You should be able to see the white hangers. The match is loosely formed to simulate hunting just as Sporting Clays simulates hunting with a shotgun. To be able to have any success making hits, the entire package of rifle, scope, load, and shooter must be right. As for scopes used by those who attend this and another match we have here, the Steel Safari, here is a quote from Zak Smith, the Director:
I believe this quote is a "comment on leading scope manufacturer's offerings" in a nutshell coming from folks in the know. Here is a photo of a U.S. Optics  ....a high $$$$ scope! I can get the same job done with the Mark IV at 1/2 the cost! I have experience with and a comment on an older Bausch and Lomb scope I owned. A "Balvar", 6-24X, target knobs, AO. At the time of manufacture it was probably one of the better scopes available. I had it on my prarie dog rifle as a young dude. The glass was terrible, very blurry at power settings over about 15. The target knobs function very well and accurately with one problem. The scope was a 1/8" click scope. The markings on the knobs looked like this: 0 I 2 I 4 I 6 I 8 I with the "I" being just a line. I takes 8 clicks to get to the number 4, or movement of 1 MOA. The markings didn't make any sense to me or relate to MOA. I called Bushnell to inquire about them. They told me that they were "reference points". ???????? I hope their newer scopes are set up in MOA for dialing or how in the heck is a guy supposed to dial in data? We put it on the friend of mine's rifle when he first started to shoot the SRM. We had to put "White Out" on the turret and hand write numbers in MOA so he could accurately dial data. It worked OK. | |||
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Great videos of the Leupold factory. A couple of things need to be pointed out. The field of optical fabrication, optical coating and scope manufacturing are completely different fields. So the fact that they are supplied by sub contractors is not surprising or usually. The cheapest thing in the optical assembly is the actual glass itself in the unfinished state. The cost to polish and optically coat is were the performance and costs are incurred. The optical coating field for example uses production equipment that starts around 1 mil and needs at least 250,000 in equipment to support it. At the wholesale level it adds about 2 to 5 dollars per lens. | |||
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rc Is your smith from Arizona? I talked to a smith who has a set up for mounting/checking scopes. I think he is from Arizona. I can't remember his name. Who is your guy? | |||
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Charley Robertson At Score High Gunsmithing here in Albuquerque
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rc, That is the guy I talked to. I have heard others speak well of him. Thanks | |||
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I bought a Kahles CT 3-9x42 mm after having compared it with two near equivalent Swarovski models. It features excellent image qualities and low light capabilities. Its reticle is in the second image plane and does not enlarge as the magnification is turned up. It has precise turret adjustments, light weight and compact dimensions. It has a wide field of view with excellent edge-to-edge clarity and resolution. It has a one-inch tube configuration. Sadly they have discontinued all 1" models last year. Many commentators have remarked in gun magazines that it was arguably the best 1" tube scope ever. I suspect that Kahles's marketing has not been very successful outside Western Europe in particular Canada, USA and SA. They now concentrate only on 30 mm tube scopes, and I found the Kahles Helia C 2.5-10x50 mm sccope to be an amazingly bright scope - it is a FFP scope with a 30 mm tube as the Europeans seem to prefer. Well; here is a video clip of this scope .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXYAzD-zXoE Kahles, Helia C: Unmatched wide field-of-view and outstanding edge clarity. Complex objective construction with up to four wide ocular lenses all creating image qualities that are simply setting new standards. 1st Focal Plane scope ensuring that point of impact position stays constant throughout the magnification range, touted as being more precise than a SFF plane scope. The Helia C Features: •Complex objective construction for unmatched wide field-of-view with outstanding edge clarity. •AMV coatings optimized to maximum light trans-mission between 500 and 540 nanometers for superior low light use. •Classical magnifying reticle construction in first focal plane for any shooting condition. •Wide angle ocular with safe eye relief optimized for excellent viewing comfort and quick acquisition. •One piece housing from the highest grade light metal, machined from a solid stock of material. Models Available: 6x42 L 8x50 L 8x56 L 1.1-4x24 L 1.1-4x24 SR 1.5-6x42 L 1.5-6x42 SR 2.5-10x50 L 2.5-10x50 SR 3-12x56 L 3-12x56 SR Reticles Available: 1, 4, 4A, 7A, PLEX Warrior | |||
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