I've being internet hunting for Namibian pg hunts. I notice that a lot of places that say they are not game fenced offer black wildebeeste. Since these beasties are a long way from home, I'm assuming they can be contained with low cattle fences, or am I missing something?

Dean

Don't really know, except that I can tell you that in the places I've hunted in Namibia they were prolific. I'd be surprised if a low fence could contain them, and wouldn't be surprised if a high fence could not.

If you want to shoot a non-fenced black wildebeeste over there I doubt you'll have much trouble finding a place to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by BuffNut:
If you want to shoot a non-fenced black wildebeeste over there I doubt you'll have much trouble finding a place to do it.

I was under the impression that such a thing hasn't been possible for decades.

Dean

quote:

Originally posted by maki:

I was under the impression that such a thing hasn't been possible for decades.

Maybe you are thinking of the Black-faced Impala?

No, I was thinking that the black wildebeeste had been almost shot out of its native range before WWII and now only survives on fenced ranches and parks like the blesbok, bontebok and cape mountain zebra. Would love to be wrong about all of that though. I had also assumed that you could find unfenced black faced impala around Etosha.

Dean

1.37 meters

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
1.37 meters

It's too late for me to figure that one out.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:

quote:

Originally posted by SteveGl:
1.37 meters

It's too late for me to figure that one out.

Maybe the height of the fence required?

I finally got my BW in Namibia in April, and they where only available on a high fence game farm.

But with an fenced area of approx 3200 hectar the hunt was really challenging.

The rest of the game was taken on a free range / cattle fence farm.

We offer them on many ranches in RSA and have no problem keeping them within low cattle fencing. I've yet to see one jump a fence but I have no doubt they could if they wanted to. However, they tend to spend their time on the open plains where they can keep a sharp lookout. Last August I couldn't get within 500 yards of them or when I could, they would bunch up making an ethical shot impossible....rat bastids!

When I hunted a 50000 hector acre ranch in Namibia, I was told that the wildebeast had to be double fenced because of diease control


JD

I had the same experience as J D. My PH said that the government required double and high fences for disease control. I did see blue wildebeest up in Etosha, but no black ones where I went.
Bfly

My PH said the same, Double Fence. They had one get out somehow while I was there, that they sold me at a very good discount.

This one was taken in the southern portion of Namibia about 150 miles south of Windhoek (near Maltahohe). It was on a single plot of 20,000 hectares (almost 50,000 acres) under high fence, but from the condition of the fence, the fence was only there to tell the game where the best grazing was located I'm not sure what kind of fence it takes to contain various of the antelope species, but kudus and springbock definately cannot be fenced; and I suspect that eland go wherever they wish, fence or no fence.

By the way, this old boy went about 25 points into the "Gold" category. Beginner's dumb luck, coupled with excellent game management.



Here he is today, "hanging around" his new home:

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
Last August I couldn't get within 500 yards of them or when I could, they would bunch up making an ethical shot impossible....rat bastids!

I've seen them do this and it's pretty neat to watch. Did they run around in circles, criss-crossing through each other? I'm assuming it's to create confusion for predators, but it's cool to watch.

Yeah Greg, along with mule kicking and acting like hornet's were all over them. I've taken a really nice toad out of this herd several years ago, so I was being very picky but could never get a good, clean shot at any of the bigger rams. Never had any problems with them staying within low cattle fencing however. They seem very content to stay up on the high plains keeping an eye on things.

Catlle fences in GOOD condition are enough for wildebeest and gemsbok. So a hunt sell as low fence for these species is the same that a high fenced property.

Or I am missing something ?

L

Zebras also...or not ?

A good 1,40 metres high with seven or more wires will keep these animals inside. With fallow deers happen the same, is very difficult to see them jumping a cattle fence, they always try to go through or under but not over it. Axis in the other hand will jump it cleanly, specially when chased with dogs.

L

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Catlle fences in GOOD condition are enough for wildebeest and gemsbok. So a hunt sell as low fence for these species is the same that a high fenced property.

Or I am missing something ?

L

Lorenzo is quite correct in saying that cattle fences in good condition will keep in black wildebeest and gemsbok. Such a fence will also keep in blesbok, bontebok and a few more species, provided you do not hunt them hard or put too much pressure and disturbance on them. Then they will quickly learn to get out, either by jumping over, or crawling under, or jumping through, sometimes breaking some wire strands. Once they have learned how to escape, there is almost no keeping them confined.

I have very recently, for the first time ever witnessed a blesbok [a magnificant white one] jump clear over a cattle fence, not even nearly touching the top wire strand! The land ownerhas requested me to go and shoot that particular ram,as he will likely teach all of the heard that they too can do it!

I do believe much the same applies to black wildebeest; they could, if they were just shown how to, jump a 4 ft cattle fence! But I've never actually seen it! Has anyone witnessed it happen?

Nice black wildebeest you got there Arild!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Roan, Sable, Springbok, Tsessebe, Zebra, etc.: 1.37 meters (4 ½ feet), 12 wires

Giraffe & Impala: 1.83 meters, 12 wires

Eland, Kudu, Waterbuck: 2.30 meters, 17 wires

DG (Buffalo, Rhino, Elephant, Hippo): 2.30 meters, 17 wires plus two 10mm steel or electrical cables

(above all for Botswana; assume Namibia is similar)

Springbok, 4.5 feet? Dream on. Those little buggers can clear just about anything they like. And although I have no experience with Impala, I can't see only six feet being adequate to deter them. I'm not questioning your veracity on the fence heights, just the practicality behind those standards.

Standard for whitetails in Texas is 8 feet (2.44 meters), and "inspired" bucks regularly clear that height when the doe on the other side is hot enough.

Springbok apparently can't make the connection between their jumping ability and the fact that there's a fence blocking their way. They simply will not attempt to jump a fence.

They have, however, been observed inadvertantly leaping over a fence during their pronking, and seem utterly confused as to why they can't make it back to their herd.

That's what I've been told anyway.

It seems to be a question of intelligence rather than ability, maybe related to the fact that their pronking is a mating-display and not required for survival/escape.

Impala, on the other hand, seem to have made that connection ... possibly because their habitat offers more things to jump over.

(More research needed)

In all the areas I've hunted in namibia I have always seen the black wildebeest in low fenced areas. As far as black faced impala, it's my understanding that by law they have to be behind high fences.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
Nice black wildebeest you got there Arild!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Thank you Andrew.
As mentioned, they did hang out in open terrain, and stalking them from mopanibush to mopanibush with springbuck and kudu cows around was a real challenge.

The way they suddenly took off and darted around, also made this stalking difficult.
One second they stood grazing, the next bucking wildly and racing around in circles.

Got this one at mesured 160 meters and it took three 270 grn TSX from my 375 Ruger before turning in, even if it was technically dead after the first shot.

It scored a good silver by the NAPHA system, but the best thing was the great stalking

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Zebras also...or not ?

A good 1,40 metres high with seven or more wires will keep these animals inside. With fallow deers happen the same, is very difficult to see them jumping a cattle fence, they always try to go through or under but not over it. Axis in the other hand will jump it cleanly, specially when chased with dogs.

L

Fallow deer, if he can get his head through, he is gone. Zebra, almost the same, except that once he is clear to his shoulder, he just stands up. If the fence is weak, bye bye. I have seen both impala and eland, standing quite still next to a 12 ft fence, without any apparent effort, go over the top. Only last night I watched a video showing gemsbuck jumping a 4 ft cattle fence. Many years ago at Mpongo Game Park outside East London, there was a bushbuck ram, with a grey duiker, kept in a small zoo-like enclosure. Whenever you passed the enclosure, he would be inside, but there were times he could be seen outside the enclosure, grazing the well kept lawns. When he spotted someone approaching, with one bound he would return. The story goes that one afternoon, a smart arse showing off to his mates teased the ram. The little fellow took exception to the horsewallop, cleared the fence and chased the miscreant, whose voice went up five octaves, across the carpark.

quote:

Springbok apparently can't make the connection between their jumping ability and the fact that there's a fence blocking their way. They simply will not attempt to jump a fence.

I can buy that. Much the same is true of American Pronghorns. Although they have quite ample jumping ability if they choose to use it, they will virtually never jump a simple 5-strand cattle fence, prefering to worm their way under. Even in running to escape, I've seen them come to a simple 4-foot cattle fence and turn down it rather than attempt to cross it.

Whitetails tend to walk along fences when they come to them, but if they happen to want to be on the other side they can jump them as casually as you might step over a crack in the sidewalk.

As to the eland jumping a high fence from a standing start, I fully believe it, and it must be a breathtaking sight to watch twelve or fourteen hundred pounds defying gravity with such seeming effortlessness.

Springbok apparently can't make the connection between their jumping ability and the fact that there's a fence blocking their way. They simply will not attempt to jump a fence.

No, springbok learn to jump and herds that are contained by fences for decades very soon learn what to do and leap magnifently. For that matter, there are few more graceful sights than a steenbuck or common duiker clearing a sheep fence, done under pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
No, springbok learn to jump and herds that are contained by fences for decades very soon learn what to do and leap magnifently.

That's quite an interesting juxtaposition of concepts ... that springbok learn "very soon" to jump fences (after being contained "for decades")

You've got me there.

I'm surprised if they're required to be high fenced in Namibia given the numbers I've seen there. My son killed one on Erindi in 2006, which is technically high-fenced (though it is an absolutely massive property - something like 180,000 acres and definitely no interior fences). Sadly they are no longer hunting there.

But as I said, I don't really know, and it may be that all those Black Wildebeeste I've seen were behind the fence. In my subsequent trips I was on fenced property part of the time and non-high fenced farms the rest of the time.

I was definitely talking about Wildebeeste though. I know there are places you can hunt black faced impala in Namibia, but I'd be equally surprised if those could be hunted anywhere but behind the fence given their status.

Game Fencing regulations in subsaharan Africa fall into two broad categories, those mandated by Vetinary services for purposes of disease control and those mandated by Nature Conservation agencies, whilst there is overlap they for the most have different specifications and are regulated by different bodies and laws.

The Wildebeest species traditionally carry diseases that are potentially fatal for domestic cattle and thus strict vetinary regulations are in place to limit contact with domestic animals. The main diseases in question comes down to a viral disease called "snotsiekte" and the other a larval infestation caused by a Buttfly named "uitpeuloog" Both are potentially fatal for domestic cattle. For this reason Wildebbeest imported or kept in areas outside of their natural habitat are fenced off by fences that are specified in terms of the animals particular fence behaviour.

In the game industry we classify species as either "jumpers", "fence crawlers" and "fence breakers" and fencing regulations for each of these main groupings reflect this behaviour.

Sable, oryx and Roan are classic fence crawlers, Fence breakers are Buffalo, elephant, Giraffe , Rhino and hippo. The jumpers are Eland and kudu.

Impala for instance will jump trough a standard 7 foot six 17 wire "exemption fence", They classically hit the fence just where the bottom strands start opeing up ie abouve 1.4m and it's not uncommon to see a whole heard go through the fence when pressed.

Whist Pronking Springbok can jump 13 feet into the air they seldom intentionally jump fences and a 1.4m fence is sufficient to keep them in. The same applies to the Black Wildebeest

That's quite an interesting juxtaposition of concepts ... that springbok learn "very soon" to jump fences (after being contained "for decades")

You've got me there.

Yes, badly explained! Point is, they are happily contained for a long time and then oneday discover their abilities and never look back.

Springbok are similar to our American Pronghorn Antelope in that they prefer to crawl under a fence then jump it. We lost 350 Springbok when one clever ram found a Warthog dig under the low fence. He took them all with him in short order. I have watched Pronghorn jump fences, something my resident Wyoming friends said they will NEVER do.

Interesting stories. Bison can learn too. I was talking to a bison breeder a few years ago and she was telling me how a new bull had taught the rest of the herd to just over an 8 ft barbed wire fence that had contained them for years. When she got the call from a neighbour that the bison where on the wrong side of the fence, she headed out and herded the herd back in. The new bull turned around and led them right back out again. One of the fence jumpers was in the process of giving birth, with hooves sticking out the back end. Eventually the new bull got himself shot and the calf was dropped on the right side of the fence.

Dean

Maki

Black Wildebeest and Blue wildebeest has to be fenced in Namibia. The law requires a double fence, one fence must be 10m away from the other fence. In cases where there are two game ranches next to each other you can get away with a game proof fence. A Game proof fence can be a low one or high one. A low game proof fence normally contain 12 to 15 wires where a normal cattle fence only contain 5 wires.

People always focus on high fences, high fences in Namibia doesn't ensure that a animal cannot escape or move through, it's simply there to try and regulate most of your animals. Because of the size of ranches we have normal High fences with 21 wires, Kudu,Eland and Waterbuck can jump over if they're under stress or want too. Warthogs makes holes under the fences so your animals like Oryx, all the Gnu's and other plains game can crawl underneath. In May and June it's rut for Kudu and since I have a lot of Kudu I get a lot of Males jumping the fence to get to my females. I border to Erindi Private Game Reserve and three years ago one of there Lion males jumped through the electrified fence that's between us.

If you want a chalenging hunt don't concentrate on the fences concentrate on the size of the propperty you'll be hunting in. Black Wildebeest in a 1000 hectare game camp will be much more use to people and vehicles moving then Black Wildebeest in a 10 000 Hectare game camp where they see less humans.

Believe me it can be much more difficult hunting a 10000 ha game camp then hunting a 5000 ha free range ranch.

This can be a long discussion and there is a lot of factors to be considered. I have clients that can tell you if it is easy hunting a big game camp, some of my concessions are free roaming and we usually have much quicker succes then in my own hunting camp. The area plays a big role, open area or bushy area.

If you have questions please feel free to pm me.

Roy

Roy
Good point on the size of the area regardless of fences.
Too many people rob themselves of their own enjoyment by listening too BS on the internet about what constitutes fair chase etc.

How do you say the name of your company?

HQ

Roy,

Thanks for the clarification. That is just what I was looking for, not another fence vs no fence debate.

On a slightly different topic, IIRC north of a certain line in Namibia, blue wildebeeste do not have to be game fenced. Is this correct and where is the line?

Thanks,
Dean

What fence will keep a warthog in?

quote:

Originally posted by Black Fly:
I had the same experience as J D. My PH said that the government required double and high fences for disease control. I did see blue wildebeest up in Etosha, but no black ones where I went.
Bfly

Yes. double fences are required in Namibia to reduce the transmission of Bovine malignant catarrhal fever ("snotsiekte" in Afrikaan- translates to "snot sickness"). Wildebeest carry it but show no ill effect. New-born wildebeest calves are infected by their mothers at birth, and are highly infectious, thus can transmit the disease to cattle within about 100 m. It is lethal to the cattle.

It is prevalent amongst blue wildebeest, but less so amongst the black wildebeest.

Just FYI.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
Springbok apparently can't make the connection between their jumping ability and the fact that there's a fence blocking their way. They simply will not attempt to jump a fence.

No, springbok learn to jump and herds that are contained by fences for decades very soon learn what to do and leap magnifently. For that matter, there are few more graceful sights than a steenbuck or common duiker clearing a sheep fence, done under pressure.

Have not seen it, but can believe it. They certainly have the capability to do so.

I have seen springbuck creep through a fence at will. it seems to be something that they also learn, and teach.

quote:

...On a slightly different topic, IIRC north of a certain line in Namibia, blue wildebeeste do not have to be game fenced. Is this correct and where is the line?

Thanks,
Dean

While I don't know "exactly" where the line runs, I have been north of (and hunted north of) it on a few occassions. The Caprivi and Caprivi Strip are north of this line and are the only areas that I have seen blue wildebeest in. In fact I shot one in the Caprivi in 2009 that was unfenced.

To the west the line (fence) extends about mid way between Grootfontein and Rundu and I presume it extends westward to Etosha somewhere north of the Namutoni Gate since I did not have to cross it when I was up that way. West of Etosha it is north of Kamanjab but I do not know where exactly it extends much past here.

I am fairly certain that much of the areas north of this line are communal areas and I doubt you will find blue wildebeest outside their naturally occurring areas of the Caprivi and Caprivi Strip. Maybe there are some in Bushmanland and/or Khaudum?

George