Brett,

I don't usually comment on other people's operations, but in this case I'll make an exception and say.......put it this way, we wouldn't accept their advert for the connection site.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
John,

I agree that we're losing the PR war but how to turn that around is another matter. Personally, I don't think facebook etc is going to achieve anything because trying to explain why we hunt to a non hunter is like trying to explain colour to a blind man....... it just can't be done.

All we can do is try to explain and justify why hunting helps the game populations and the eco-system etc. I've made a minor effort to do that here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...m-sport-hunting.html but I'm well aware it's no-where near enough.

What I think we need is some kind of a platform that can reach a wide audience of non hunters and use it to give examples of how hunting and hunters benefit the game populations etc...... not only is that easier said than done, it'd also cost a small fortune.

There's also cans of worms that'd have to be opened and acts that'd need to be cleaned up..... with everything that entails.

So..... anyone got any ideas?

I would put out there that no matter how much you spend you would never get your message out there. The only way, and the way the anti's are doing this successfully is a small grass roots deal. Two people start an anti hunting page on facebook and get 100 members. That is how they are growing. It is very hard for the currently dominant player to understand this, much less combat it effectively.

The goal isn't to change the anti's mind on this, but rather limit there ability to attract new converts.

I understand what you say, but (IMO) one of the main problems is that we're our own worst enemies. For example, how many debates/discussions are there here on game management and conservation compared to how many posts on guys who take animals (Elephants are a good example) that scientists, zoologists and other qualified experts have proved shouldn't be taken by sport hunting methods......... one far outweighs the other and it don't take much working out which is which.

We've already discussed that most of us, myself included are uncomfortable with criticising other people's ethics, but the first thing we'd have to do is just that......

Steve, I agree that scientists and people on the ground doing hands on research have a vital role to play, as does the PH in all of this. I would think that the PH sets the standard for what is ethical or not under his practise. Many people doing research are indiffernt to hunting, and acknowlege that is it important to the economy and conservation. Winning hearts and minds though can be difficult though. I have heard of incident(s) of a prime male collared male lion (in Hwange) being shot and the researchers tracing the cut collar on a train heading north into Zambia. For researchers like this, it is easy to see why some may have a resentment towards hunters. As to canned hunting, that is another story, I wonder how many people would actually defend it? I would think it is a very hush-hush underground practise, as well as having the wool being pulled over many a client's eyes.

In Hwange at least, research does seem to show that hunting may be having a direct impact on the natural home range of male lions, with many immature males mating with females, which they would not do normally if there was a healthy population of 4+ year old males. Many young males can wander and mate with females from other prides much further than they would otherwise be entitled to. Snares have also been quite a problem, with several lions, including collared individuals having been found dead, obviously snare lines also attract the lions, because of the smell and sound of other struggling animals. One take-home point seems to be the demand for male lions, not lionesses seems to be the most reliable answer for the demographic changes in this area and hunting may be an obvious explantion. The density of lions may still be fairly high in such areas, buy the proportion of adult males seems to be negatively skewed. Just food for thought. That to me suggests that quotas should maybe have to be reviewed and monitored carefully.

Tam safaris are leaders in the canned industry. They put a good face on it but they are canning. The profit margins for canning must be great. Do this math: If an apex predator was taking say 1.5 plains game animals/week for 300 or so weeks. How could these be "naturally occuring" with that calculation and the trophy fees listed by the various outfits? I promise they are being feed pet food or slaughter by-product. There is no way these lion can fend for themselves, unlike plains game animals on a fenced property. Someone was trying to draw an analogy to the Sanctuary, a high fence deer operation in Michigan, USA. Those deer CAN fend for themselves if the supplemental feeding were to be discontinued. The absolute dependancy of the lion on humans for food is what makes this type of hunt such fertile ground for the antis.

SCI is sending a packet of details. I will post when it shows up.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:


So here's a question for you all: I was sitting at the dinner table at my local SCI chapter fundraiser last year with a nice gentleman and his family who where accomplished hunters. He had hunted Africa many times including a trip with Johnny DuPloy. He received an award at the banquet for his latest hunting "accomplishment" a stunningly well maned lion that he shot with Tam Safaris of South Africa. Before this happened I had watched an episode of Dangerous Game devoted to lion hunting in which Olivia Nalos-Angilos (or whatever her name is?) shot a lion with Tam Safaris. I gleaned two things from this show:

1. Tam Safaris is the only South African hunting outfitter to be recognized by SCI as having free ranging lion. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

2. Her "hunt" was appallingly unlike hunting. They walked for hundreds of yards (in the open and in plain sight of the lion mind you) up to a lone male lion resting under a bush watching them and shot him as he looked at them from some distance.

So:

Is Tam Safaris just a well endorsed Canned Lion operation?

What do you think about this kind of operation?

How does it work that it is so much different than the canned operations if it is different?

Brett

Is Tam Safaris a big donator to SCI?

Saeed,

I don't know for sure, but I'm under the impression they are. That might explain a lot about their special status.

Brett

Brett,

your impression is correct.

All donations to the African lion studies and national action plans are appreciated. Conservation Force is a non-profit 501(c)(3) charitable organization, so the donations are tax-deductible. Nothing is taken out for expenses or administration. You can't get more for your money.

Lions are at risk and lion hunting is at an even greater risk of loss. Loss of habitat, prey base, and conflict with people and livestock is the cause. We need action plans at the national level in all the regions and certainly in all the hunting countries to save them. The Wild Turkey Federation has an action plan for turkey in every state in partnership with the State Game Departments. There is an even greater need in Africa for the lion.

Hunters are uniquely positioned to help save the lion and to help build tolerance by making it an asset. Please join with us in saving the African lion. We funded the Chardonnet Lion Study in 2002, which is the most comprehensive study; now we must do the action plans.

Thanks for all of your support!

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum........ PM sent.

Welcome John. Your contributions are most welcome here. How is the fundraising going?

Brett

Some added information:

http://www.safariclub.org/arti...view&Article_ID=3421

This was very similar to the article that SCI sent out on its e-mail bulletin that I received today.

Same

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:


So here's a question for you all: I was sitting at the dinner table at my local SCI chapter fundraiser last year with a nice gentleman and his family who where accomplished hunters. He had hunted Africa many times including a trip with Johnny DuPloy. He received an award at the banquet for his latest hunting "accomplishment" a stunningly well maned lion that he shot with Tam Safaris of South Africa. Before this happened I had watched an episode of Dangerous Game devoted to lion hunting in which Olivia Nalos-Angilos (or whatever her name is?) shot a lion with Tam Safaris. I gleaned two things from this show:

1. Tam Safaris is the only South African hunting outfitter to be recognized by SCI as having free ranging lion. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

2. Her "hunt" was appallingly unlike hunting. They walked for hundreds of yards (in the open and in plain sight of the lion mind you) up to a lone male lion resting under a bush watching them and shot him as he looked at them from some distance.

So:

Is Tam Safaris just a well endorsed Canned Lion operation?

What do you think about this kind of operation?

How does it work that it is so much different than the canned operations if it is different?

Brett

Is Tam Safaris a big donator to SCI?

quote:

Saeed,

I don't know for sure, but I'm under the impression they are. That might explain a lot about their special status.

Brett

Tam Safaris is listed in position 103 on the list of SCI 2009 Exhibitor rankings, just ahead of Roger Whittal at 108, and well behind HHK [60] Out of Africa[54] Chufuti[50]Swanepol&Scandrol[4] and Rann Safaris[2].

I'm not savvy enough to see the correlations though.

Les

Update on Lion Conservation by SCIF's Conservation Department







January 27, 2009

Barbara Crown, Editor
The Hunting Report
9200 S. Dadeland Blvd., Suite 523
Miami, FL 33156, USA

To the Editor:

John Jackson’s recent call for assistance on lion conservation has increased awareness of the need for hunter-conservationists to be involved in this issue. Safari Club International Foundation (SCIF) thought it appropriate to update you and your readership on the history and current status of this issue

In 2004, the conservation status of the African lion was brought to prominence at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Fauna and Flora in Thailand. It was Kenya who proposed listing the African lion as an “endangered,” or “Appendix I” species, which would have banned commercial international trade in lions. Kenya withdrew its proposal after it was generally agreed that commercial international trade was not the problem for lion conservation and a group of African lion range states proposed to host a series of workshops to develop regional strategies for lion conservation and management. After the lion listing proposal was dropped, the southern African countries asked the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature) to help produce the workshops. The SCIF was instrumental in developing and promoting the workshop strategy and became a major private funder of the workshops.

Two workshops were held to develop regional conservation strategies for the African lion. The first workshop brought together 14 West and Central African lion range states to a workshop in Douala, Cameroon, in October, 2005. The second workshop brought together 15 lion range states from Eastern and Southern Africa to a workshop that took place in Johannesburg, South Africa in January, 2006. As you can see by examining the documents in the attached links (http://www.catsg.org/catsgportal/bulletin-board/05_strategies/Lion%20Conserv%20Strat%20E&S%20Africa%202006.pdf, and http://www.catsg.org/catsgport...20Afric_2006_E.pdf), many organizations have contributed to the development of final regional plans.

The regional strategies included objectives formulated to address the leading threats to lions and a number of specific actions were recommended. The chief of these actions was to develop a “stepped-down” strategy to the national level for each lion range state. Once each range state had a tangible plan to conserve and manage lions, they would focus on implementing the plan with their available resources.

The SCIF has an extensive history and commitment in wildlife conservation in southern Africa and considers the development and implementation of the national lion management plans in all range states a top priority. Although some countries have management plans that include lions, such as Botswana, several countries do not. Since the conclusion of the regional workshops, SCIF has sponsored meetings in Zimbabwe and Namibia for the production of national-level lion management plans, and Zambia recently held their own workshop. SCIF has secured funding to assist Mozambique, Tanzania, and Malawi in holding workshops to develop their national plans. In addition, SCIF has funded a lion survey in Mozambique this year. SCIF has supported Dr. Paula White in her efforts to provide the necessary scientific research about the physical characteristics of lions in Zambia (nose color, mane development, etc) related to age to refine the sustainable use of this species. Finally, the past November SCIF co-hosted our 7thAfrican Wildlife Consultative Forum in Namibia, a meeting where lion conservation and human-lion conflict were the two dominant topics.


Funding is essential to assist the range states completion and implementation of their national lion plans. We commend the Conservation Force initiative in central and western Africa, and SCIF plans to continue our work in the Southern Africa (SADC) region to build a scientific basis for lion management.



Since inception, Safari Club International (SCI) has become a significant global organization. Our approximately 190 chapters provide us with a way to make and gather with friends, our Convention is a place to celebrate and enjoy our hunting heritage, and our Foundation is recognized as a world leader in wildlife conservation and education programs. SCI has provided nearly $300 million USD on hunter advocacy and wildlife conservation since inception. Since 2000, the SCIF has provided $47 million USD on conservation, wildlife education, and humanitarian programs around the world.

Sincerely,

Joseph H. Hosmer

Vice President, Safari Club International & Safari Club International Foundation

Chairman – SCI Foundation Conservation Committee



Seloushunter

i met john jackson at the grand slam ovis convention yesterday , what an amazing , tireless individual , truly one of the conservation worlds unsung heroes ..

he said the meetings went well , and was tentatively hopeful ...

What is the funding situation?