Jorge400, yes I am certain of my statement. I just went to their web site and pulled up their 990, return for non-profit corp in the US.

a few pieces picked form that return.

Gross income 15.3 million
Expenditures for services (good of the general public) 11.7 million
Management costs 2.5 million
Fund raising (exclusive of Show) 1.1 million

The "show" had gross revenues of 12 million with a cost of 4.6 million leaving 7.4 million which is included in the 15.3 million referenced above.

Officer and Director fees and benifits 300K

Number of members 52,500

These wre taken from the 2007 return latest available, I think the 2008 will be posted on the site soon.

All are free to go to the web site and pull up the 990. The report is 118 pages because you are dealing with the IRS.

The return was prepared by Deloitt. For those not in the know one of the 4 largest international firms.

Bwana Bunduki,

I don't have a crystal ball but my guess is that it's largely a matter of perspective where one side wants to see it banned and minimises the numbers (which can only be a guesstimate at best) and the other side wants it to continue and so maximises the numbers. I'd further guess that the true number probably lies somewhere in the middle.

As to the SCI organisation and the rest, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. On side sees them as doing a great job and the other sees the organisation as almost self promoting extortonists with similar morals and ethics to one or two companies they accept donations from.

All that said, whist I disapprove of the organisation, I have absolutely nothing against its individual members.

As to the non profit thing....... to coin a fine English phrase, ' my arse!'

That HQ ain't too untidy for a non profit making organisation is it!

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Graybird,

I disagree a bit with on you on SCI fighting "tooth and nail" for the Polar bear issue. In fact they jumped in the middle going off half cocked and buggered up or complicated the work of John Jackson and Conservation Force. They put very little effort into their work. Just IMHO a publicity grab to attempt to be seen as doing something.
Jeff

Yes, maybe it isn't fighting 'tooth and nail', but at least it is getting involved with something that does effect hunters, with you being the perfect example. Like I said, I just hope SCI does get involved for the sake of those who do decide/want to hunt lions in the future, and I don't understand SCI's rationale when determining which battles to get involved in.

I wish you well in getting your polar bear to the States!!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Saeed, just how do you know how much SCI takes in on their convention - show? I guess they get the facalities for free and the people they employ work for nothing.

The SCI is a non-profit org. and to remain so in the eyes of the IRS they must be a non profit, their funds must be expended for a common good.

Steve asks for examples and when some are provided well lets get on with something else to bitch about.

It is not possible but I would love to see what the safari industgry would be without the org like SCI DSC.

Like I said this is getting like the Political forum.

People from outside the USA know what is best for all of us.

Just a quesation why dosen't Dubia make a strong push for the UN to reloacte their headquarters there? I know this is not African hunting but just an interesting thought.

I think there are lot of us who want to know what SCI is doing for our benefits - I am Life member of both SCI and the NRA.

One gentleman gives us an example of SCI donating $6260 for an anti poaching patrol.

Do you know how much it costs to run an anti-poaching set up?

It sure isn't $6260.

I know for a fact that outfitters like TGT pay several hundred thousands to maintain their anti-poaching patrols, and I take my hat off to them.

They at least do not fleece outfitters and PHs under the pretence of doing "so much" for the hunting community.

You are part of SCI, so why don't YOU tell us what they actually do for us as hunters.

SCI in running their show behave just like extortionists.

One has to pay for the booth space, then one has to donate a hunt, or some money instead, or one does not get booth space.

If you and SCI want to turn a blind eye to the fact that EVERY single PH I have talked too HATES SCI's policies in this regard.

None of them sees the humor of SCI demanding "donations" in the form of hunts, and then proceeds to compete with them in selling these same hunts during the convention.

As I said before, they only exhibit at SCI because they have NO other choice.

What has the UN, Dubai got to do with the discussion we have here?

I did not see either Dubai or the UN demanding "donations" from those who run hunts in Africa.

Don't go off on a tangent now, stay on topic, and enlighten us to what SCI is doing for us hunting in Africa.

The above example of paying $6260 is almost an insult to the outfitters who get fleeced 100s of thousands or even millions every year.

SCI has been involved with the lion issue from the start. They not only attended the lion workshops they sponsored them. It was John Jackson and SCI who stopped Kenyas proposal to list the lion on CITIES appendix 1 at the last CITIES meeting which would have virtually stopped all Lion hunting. AS to other things that SCI has done recently in Africa they lobbied very hard against the TZ fee increases. They are funding MTN Nyala research in Ethiopia. They have funded anti poaching efforts in Zambia, Zim and TZ. They were very involved in the campfire program in Zim. The Blue Bag program has sent tons of supplies to schools and clinics all over Africa. Our local SCI chapter has sent 5 or 6 blue bags over in the last 2 years. These bags are greatly appreciated by those that receive them, don't downplay their effect or importance. Our chapter has also bought thousands of mosquito nets for children in Zambia. They support the wildlife college in TZ. They facilitated agreements between Zambia, Zim and Moz on wildlife management and conservation. They are working to allow Ivory from Moz and Cameroon to be imported in to the US and other countries. They have had a delegation attending and fighting for hunters at the CITIES meeting since 1983. These are a few of the things that they are doing recently.
The majority of there funding has gone to projects in the US. In the US their programs include Sportsman against Hunger, Sensory Safari, American Wilderness Leadership School, BOW (Becoming an Outdoor Woman), YES (Youth Education Seminars) and a Disabled Hunter Program. Their are hundreds of conservation projects that have had funding from by SCI. The local chapters have the ability to fund their own programs and make their own donations. The chapter funded programs are all over the world and number in the hundreds every year.
Do I agree with everything that SCI does? NO. I do not think much of the Awards, the book or the convention. The SCIF their Conservation arm is rated 4 stars by charity watch. Their spending was 80% programs 11% management and 9% fundraising, this isn't bad as far as non profits go but could be better. You can support the SCIF with out having to support the awards or the convention as they are separate and the funds are separate.
This thread was originally about Conservation Forces fight to keep the Lion off of the CITIES appendix 1 which I think is a good cause. It really has nothing to do with SCI it has to do with saving lion hunting and the proper scientific conservation of them. This is something we all need to get behind and support, WE CAN STOP THE ANTI HUNTERS HERE. They have been foiled in their attempts at the last Cities mtg we can do it again. I urge everyone including Saeed to donate to the Conservation Force not SCI. I put my money where my mouth is, I donated $500.00.
Sorry about the long rant. Thanks for listening.

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Wattis:
SCI has been involved with the lion issue from the start. They not only attended the lion workshops they sponsored them. It was John Jackson and SCI who stopped Kenyas proposal to list the lion on CITIES appendix 1 at the last CITIES meeting which would have virtually stopped all Lion hunting. AS to other things that SCI has done recently in Africa they lobbied very hard against the TZ fee increases. They are funding MTN Nyala research in Ethiopia. They have funded anti poaching efforts in Zambia, Zim and TZ. They were very involved in the campfire program in Zim. The Blue Bag program has sent tons of supplies to schools and clinics all over Africa. Our local SCI chapter has sent 5 or 6 blue bags over in the last 2 years. These bags are greatly appreciated by those that receive them, don't downplay their effect or importance. Our chapter has also bought thousands of mosquito nets for children in Zambia. They support the wildlife college in TZ. They facilitated agreements between Zambia, Zim and Moz on wildlife management and conservation. They are working to allow Ivory from Moz and Cameroon to be imported in to the US and other countries. They have had a delegation attending and fighting for hunters at the CITIES meeting since 1983. These are a few of the things that they are doing recently.
The majority of there funding has gone to projects in the US. In the US their programs include Sportsman against Hunger, Sensory Safari, American Wilderness Leadership School, BOW (Becoming an Outdoor Woman), YES (Youth Education Seminars) and a Disabled Hunter Program. Their are hundreds of conservation projects that have had funding from by SCI. The local chapters have the ability to fund their own programs and make their own donations. The chapter funded programs are all over the world and number in the hundreds every year.
Do I agree with everything that SCI does? NO. I do not think much of the Awards, the book or the convention. The SCIF their Conservation arm is rated 4 stars by charity watch. Their spending was 80% programs 11% management and 9% fundraising, this isn't bad as far as non profits go but could be better. You can support the SCIF with out having to support the awards or the convention as they are separate and the funds are separate.
This thread was originally about Conservation Forces fight to keep the Lion off of the CITIES appendix 1 which I think is a good cause. It really has nothing to do with SCI it has to do with saving lion hunting and the proper scientific conservation of them. This is something we all need to get behind and support, WE CAN STOP THE ANTI HUNTERS HERE. They have been foiled in their attempts at the last Cities mtg we can do it again. I urge everyone including Saeed to donate to the Conservation Force not SCI. I put my money where my mouth is, I donated $500.00.
Sorry about the long rant. Thanks for listening.

Gary,

Thank you for that information. Seems SCI does a great deal more than some give it credit for.

Dave

Gary,

A very interesting post, if they sponsored the lion workshops, do you know how much for? and I also wonder why they haven't offered a contribution to support what is so evidently running out of money?

Hope you won't mind my saying that I was up there all that season and getting very regular updates as things progressed and as far as I could see, they did bugger all about the TZ price increases except hand out regular disinformation which did nothing more than confuse the situation further.

I think you'll find the previous attempt to ban Lion hunting was stopped by a large group of organisations and I know a few people who would strongly disagree that SCI & JJ stopped it all by themselves.

Blue bags........ was that the individual chapters or the organisation?

Which wildlife college are you referring to?

Saeed, I will assume our latest posts crossed please see above and the you can go to the web site and see the figures for yourself. Maybe the problem is the org is chartered in the US and nothing good can come from the US except our dollars.

Steve "All that said, whist I disapprove of the organization, I have absoulutely nothing against it indivisual memeber. "

My first reaction with the wink is that the comment is Bull but you just don't want to say so, after all any orginization is its members at least in my opinion and that is why I get my ass in the air when I see attacks on this org which I work (free of charge) my fair share.

Steve as to seeing direct benefit to Africa, because you don't personally see them I guess I only imagine my spending 20K+ a year in Africa as a benefit to Africa because you don't see the funds. Oh yes SCI led me to hunt in Africa so in my humble opinion they (SCI) are to receive credit for my funds spent in Africa. Now that is another way to look at the picture.

DOJ,

Those that know me, know that I care nothing for rank, title or fortune. I judge all men (and women) by their merits....... or lack of them. I ALWAYS but ALWAYS tell the absolute truth as I see it and I'm thick skinned enough not to worry if that opinion offends someone. I don't tell lies and I don't BS. If I have something to say, I say it. I'm the straightest man you'll ever meet. That comment meant exactly what it said. Nothing more and nothing less.

The money you as an individual spend in Africa has nothing to do with the money SCI claim to spend in Africa on good works. As I see it, the two things are completely different....... and my criticisms were not aimed at you as an individual at all.......... they were aimed at the organisation, which I guess takes me back to the earlier comment that you disputed. - I hope my explanation helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Oh yes SCI led me to hunt in Africa so in my humble opinion they (SCI) are to receive credit for my funds spent in Africa. Now that is another way to look at the picture.

100%, well said. A very obvious way of looking at it and certainly no need to be humble of opinion when stating such a patent truth. And it is not only true of your funds sir, but that of thousands of other SCI members. Let's try and calculate how much money is ploughed into Africa by SCI members every year, and then we can decide how much benefit the organization is to Africa. Gentleman, there is no argument here, I am going back to the giraffe thread.

Dave

African hunting was around well before SCI and if SCI closed tomorrow it'd still be there and there's plenty of outfitters and safari companies etc (my own included) that do just fine without SCI and/or it's conventions.

I don't attend and have been in the business one way or the other for 29 years and I'm glad to say, I'm more than happy (actually fucking delighted!)not having to attend. - The only thing I regret is not seeing my friends on that side of the pond.

I know, let's run a little survey. Hands up all those outfitters, agents, PHs and hunting companies etc who would choose to voluntarily donate a hunt after they've paid for a booth, lighting, power, furniture & cleaning etc if there was no requirement or facility to do so.


What you guys don't realise is that the cost of attending the convention seasons is astronomical for the African outfitters and to make it viable, they have to divide that cost over every hunt for the season. If that were not necessary, the cost of safari would drop considerably. The problem is that very few people have got the balls to say NO to SCI and simply rely on other marketing methods.

quote:

Steve as to seeing direct benefit to Africa, because you don't personally see them I guess I only imagine my spending 20K+ a year in Africa as a benefit to Africa because you don't see the funds. Oh yes SCI led me to hunt in Africa so in my humble opinion they (SCI) are to receive credit for my funds spent in Africa. Now that is another way to look at the picture

I spend $200K - $300K in Africa every year, and SCI has absolutely nothing to do with it!

We are still waiting for specific examples of what SCI has done?

Please enlighten us.

Cheers David, it was good to meet you in Dallas.
Oh by the way I just heard from Huber Halles (sp) and my trophies from last Oct are ready to be shipped.

Good on you Steve and we don't miss you either

Saeed just go to their web site, I quoted you figures from their 990, of sorry it isn't detailed enough to show African expenditures.

As to your spending in Africa good for you.

I knew when I mentioned my expenditures I was opening my self up for a round of oneupsmanship.

But before I go....

Let me just say that I don't believe those who suggest that SCI does nothing (or very little) for African hunting know any more about its inner workings than those of us who suggest otherwise. You know how we keep going on about how we should not give ammunition to antis? Maybe we should practice what we preach because the blatant belittling of SCI on a respected public hunting forum is doing nothing to help our cause. Surely we have enough to contend with as it is, without shredding our common cause allies?

This is my two quadrillion zim dollars worth

Dave

I tend to side with Saeed on this issue. Show me the money! that SCI is putting on the ground.

If those SCI pundits who buy their own awards (the medals and trophies are all bought by the recipient, kind of wierd) were to put that money to something tangible, I could get a little more excited about the organization. I am a member, but not a happy member.

quote:

I knew when I mentioned my expenditures I was opening my self up for a round of oneupsmanship.

This has nothing to do with oneupmanship.

I have been hunting in Africa since the early 80's, and SCI has nothing to do with me hunting there.

You make it sound like if it wasn't for SCI not many people would hunt in Africa, therefore SCI must take the credit for those hunters going there.

We are still waiting for examples of what SCI does for African hunting.

Steve, I do not how much they spent to sponsor the work shops. I should have chosen my words more carefully concerning the cities mtg, I did not mean to say JJ or SCI did it ON their own. Yes there was work by many groups on this issue and they all should be thanked for their great effort. SCI's and JJ work should not be down played either. The blue bags are mainly a chapter effort but SCI facilitates their distribution. I think SCI has arranged with some airlines not to charge excess baggage fees for the bags. I cannot recall the name of the college, I think it is located in Arusha and if I recall it was the first college to offer wildlife and conservation training in Africa. I do not know if they have donated to the latest round of studies, they may already have and if not I agree they should make it a priority. As said before I am not a huge fan of every thing they do but they do alot allover the world for hunting. Can they do more? Absolutly But how can they do it without funding? Their method of fundraising is open to debate as well as their priorities. I have been involved in quite a few non profits and fund raising is always in the fore front as very few have an endowment that enables them to support their programing with out further fundraising. I hate the fundraising but it is unavoidable. I am a member of a lot of orgs and cannot think of one that I agree with 100%, that does not mean I will not support them. I would like for their to be more orgs that are fighting to maintain or improve our hunting opportunities and to support true conservation. We as hunters need to stick together and fight these proposals.

Isn't the award program just another method of fund raising?

The awards program is indeed a fund raising method as are the local banquets as we remit 30% of our profits to national vs NRA banquets where 100% is remitted to national as are RMEF,Ducks ltd etc. Helping african hunting the sponser ship of Craig Boddingtons Tracks Across (what is the name of that country) helps put funds into African hands, if people can't see the help SCI is doing for Africa well I guess it is their problem not mine or SCIs.

As to the awards program you don't have to participate and therefore don't help SCI fund projects to help hunting around the world because there is hunting outside Africa.

Well I must get back to work to earn a few quid for my trip to RSA this summer.

Cheers

Well to get to the bottom of this I called SCI. Was referred to the DC office and an Emma Mutinda. She is out until next week. Will post when I hear from her.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


We are still waiting for examples of what SCI does for African hunting.

Gee, well I guess the giraffe is going to have to go on the back-burner for the time being.

I believe Gary Wattis has given us a number of good examples of what SCI does do for African hunting. Although his list is already fairly extensive, I bet there is much more. Anyone else in the know care to add? Since we are now not short of examples of what SCI does do for African hunting, could we please have some proof that SCI is either not engaged in (or does not effectively carry out) the worthy work mentioned? Real proof please, not supposition.

Dave

Here's a couple of items from SCI's website itself:


THE LEADER IN PROTECTING THE FREEDOM TO HUNT AND PROMOTING WILDLIFE CONSERVATION WORLDWIDE -- CONTACT SCI - 1-888-SCI-HUNT

Safari Club International > About SCI > Protect Hunting
Protect Hunting


Safari Club International is serious about protecting hunting freedoms.
In many ways, SCI is first in legislation, litigation and international advocacy for hunting.
SCI has its own lobbyists in Washington DC, in addition to a well-staffed office on Capitol Hill. SCI is a 501(c)(4) organization that has a connected PAC.


SCI regularly attends worldwide meetings, such as CITES, to speak up for hunting.


SCI provides strong support for grassroots chapters who work at the state and local level to preserve hunting freedom.


SCI partners with other organizations as well as federal and state agencies in litigation against anti-hunting initiatives.


SCI is a leader in hunter education and wildlife conservation, preserving wildlife for the next generation of hunters.




Safari Club International is the leader in protecting the freedom to hunt and in promoting wildlife conservation & education worldwide. With active members in more than 100 countries, no matter which chapter you become involved with, you'll meet individuals and families that share the same passion for hunting and wildlife as you do. SCI fights tirelessly to protect the hunting heritage enjoyed by 45 million families around the globe, just like yours. An SCI membership is a commitment to the future of hunting and wildlife management and together, we help every sportsman and woman understand how, and why, SCI is truly first for hunters.

Copyright © 2009, Safari Club International. All rights reserved.

vie


THE LEADER IN PROTECTING THE FREEDOM TO HUNT AND PROMOTING WILDLIFE CONSERVATION WORLDWIDE -- CONTACT SCI - 1-888-SCI-HUNT

International Affairs


Safari Club International > Governmental Affairs > International Affairs
International Affairs


· Africa Hunting Information
· Argentina Firearm Importing Regulations Fact Sheet
· Canadian Border Crossing
· Contact SCI's South Africa Office (email)
· Economic Data on Hunting
· International Chapter Websites
· Polar Bear Hunting and Importation
· Summary of CITES CoP 14 Results
· Summary of International Activities - Oct. 2007 (.doc)

SCI is dedicated to preserving the freedom to hunt and promoting wildlife conservation worldwide. This section will provide information on SCI’s efforts outside of the U.S. and for all hunters who travel internationally to hunt, regardless of their country of residence.

Areas of interest include: Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species of Flora and Fauna (CITES); World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities (WFSA); traveling with firearms; specific issues in Africa and Latin America, and around the world.

For the latest news and press releases, follow the "View Articles" link at right.

For specific questions, contact Safari Club International at (800) 711-8314 or the SCI’s office in Washington, D.C. at (800) 711-8315.

International residents can call (520) 620-1220 and (202) 543-8733, respectively.

vie
THE MISSION OF SCIF IS TO FUND AND MANAGE WORLDWIDE PROGRAMS DEDICATED TO
WILDLIFE CONSERVATION, OUTDOOR EDUCATION AND HUMANITARIAN SERVICES


SCIF Home
About SCIF
Conservation
Donate
Education
Endowment
Humanitarian Services
International Wildlife Museum
Planned Giving
Sables
Safari Club International



TOP > Safari Club International Foundation > Conservation > Conservation Efforts: Africa Program

- Conservation Efforts: ZiMoZa
- Elephants and Ivory in Zimbabwe
- Regional Strategy for Lions


SCI Foundation is refocusing its efforts in Africa to build on lessons learned from CAMPFIRE and other community-based wildlife management programs, as well as develop partnerships with wildlife agencies, communities, private sector hunting companies and other conservation organizations.

Mr. George Pangeti, SCIF's African Program Coordinator, helps facilitate and initiate our projects in Africa. In the early 1990's, Pangeti was the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife's deputy director and now is on the Board of Directors of the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Authority. He plays a major role in helping communities, government and private sector partnerships work together for wildlife conservation. In addition, the Foundation partnered with IUCN to sponsor a workshop to develop the community involvement in the program.

The 2005 Western and Central African Lion Workshop held in Duala, Cameroon was a success. Bob Byrne, Conservation Program Manager and George Pangeti both attended this workshop, which was divided into two separate sectors. The first, convened by the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS), focused on the current status and range of lions in the region. The second meeting developed a management strategy for lion in these regions. This conference developed a Region Wide Vision, Mission, Strategy, and Action Plan for lion management. This strategic plan strongly endorsed the use of lion hunting as a conservation mechanism. The Eastern and Southern African lion workshop took place in January 2006 in Johannesburg, South Africa. Both of these workshops set the stage for improved management and conservation of African Lions.

The 2005 African Wildlife Consultative Forum (AWCF) meeting was held in Mauritius from November 6-10, 2005. SCI representatives included Ron Maddox, Chairman of the Conservation Committee, Bob Byrne, Conservation Program Manager, George Pangeti, SCIF African Conservation Consultant, and also Linda Venter and Tersia Pelser from SCI's South Africa office. Participants at the meeting included senior wildlife governmental officials, outfitter representatives, and environmental non-governmental organizations from southern Africa. The AWCF meeting received progress reports in respect of the African Lion Workshops and the Regional Elephant Management strategy. Also discussed was the need to extend the range of protected areas to include those already guarded by the state, provincial and local communities and the private sector. The meeting unanimously agreed that hunting enhanced the conservation status of protected areas. Each attending country provided overviews of their management programs based on the questionnaire sent out by SCI. The reports are very useful in terms of enhancing the knowledge base for the better management of hunting in Southern Africa.


Conservation Efforts: ZiMoZa

Regional Strategy for Lions

Elephants and Ivory in Zimbabwe


Contact Conservation

Here's an idea.

Instead of complaining why not go here

http://www.conservationforce.org/donateonline.html

enter a reasonable number like say $100 and a credit card. Make a note in the message field about AR and SCI.

Check off "African Lion Study"

Go have a Scotch knowing that you are a part of the solution.

That is what I did. Helluva lot more productive then argueing about whether someone else should write a check.

John Hunt

Maybe we can move this thread back to the original topic of saving lion hunting instead of how f23456d up SCI is. What orgs are out there that we CAN support that will fight these proposals. What else can we do to fight this. Info about orgs in africa that are doing good work is spotty and hard to find. Steve maybe that would be another section for your website when you get caught up. I am sure there are alot of orgs doing work in africa that dont get much publicity or the credit they deserve and could use the help. Lets be constructive, get our heads together and do something. Saeed maybe there is an AR foundation in the future, I would make a donation. Maybe the AR crowd can work together and get something done on this and other issues. Thanks

These are the people that care enough about the lions to comment in this thread...
Use Enough Gun
David Hulme
Die Ou Jagter
larryshores
Gary Wattis
dogcat
Saeed
shakari
graybird
LionHunter
jorge
Brett Adam Barringer
fulvio
Scott450
butchloc
Bwana Bunduki
Dutch44
JBoutfishn
SBT
Jorge400
John Hunt

If each of us donate at the link above, it will go a long way to helping Conservation Task Force figure out how to manage lions in a way that allows us to continue hunting them.

20 x $100 = $2000

Just do this... $100 isn't much. You can spend that on a bottle of Scotch.

Make a note back here in the thread after you make the donation.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
Here's an idea.

Instead of complaining why not go here

http://www.conservationforce.org/donateonline.html

enter a reasonable number like say $100 and a credit card. Make a note in the message field about AR and SCI.

Check off "African Lion Study"

Go have a Scotch knowing that you are a part of the solution.

That is what I did. Helluva lot more productive then argueing about whether someone else should write a check.

John Hunt

Let me first say that I am a life member and have made special contributions from time to time. Having said that, there are plenty of arrogant pricks associated with the organization. This combined with their ways of conducting business rubs some people the wrong way. Me included.

I have personally witnessed one of the SCI elite fly into a ranch and shoot a top 10 animal that was in a SMALL pen. Totally disgusting.

I have little doubt that they do lots of good. Can I name something specific? No, nor can I name a specific thing the NRA did. I doubt many people question the NRA'a value. I also happen to be a life member with the NRA.

Some people seem to be intimidated because some of those people have a lot of money. I read some of these comments about observations from the convention. While I am not saying that none of those things occurred, I never noticed any of these things. I went for hunting related reason. Who cares what they have or don't have? Who cares if some older guy has a young wife? Who cares if a bunch of women have tight pants and implants? None of that effects my hunts for the year or the future.

As long as they aren't harming the sport, it doesn't seem that I should be against them. I may not like them but I will continue to support them.

A word about non-profits. Actually the correct term is "not for profit"

SCI, and any not for profit, is allowed by IRS rules to make as much money as they can. What makes it not for profit is that those funds must be used for something in the public good-- ie education, funding public works including conservation, their publicity including the TV shows they produce and advertise on, and all sorts of others.

They can also be used for fact-finding trips (ever wonder how the officers, ex presidents and big wigs get all those trips? I have.) The expenditures for services (good of the general public) is extremely vague when it comes to any ouside challenges to the organizations not for profit status.

This is not to imply that SCI hasn't accounted for its $$ correctly, in fact, their 990 is one of the most complete I have seen. (At one time I was in charge of such an organization.)

Yes, I'm a member of SCI, and yes, mostly I'm proud to be one. However, I do have questions, like i have questions on the NRA and just about every candidate I have believed in.

Now, on another note, how did this get from lions to SCI?

Another donation off to the Conservation Fund.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
Here's an idea.

Instead of complaining why not go here

http://www.conservationforce.org/donateonline.html

enter a reasonable number like say $100 and a credit card. Make a note in the message field about AR and SCI.

Check off "African Lion Study"

Go have a Scotch knowing that you are a part of the solution.

That is what I did. Helluva lot more productive then argueing about whether someone else should write a check.

John Hunt

Even though I'll never hunt one of the bloody things, I sent a contribution their way.

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
From the www.huntingreport.com

African Lion Hunting In Crisis

(posted January 27, 2009)

I just received word from John J. Jackson, III, of Conservation Force regarding the impending doom of African lion hunting if the hunting community does not take immediate action. You may remember his report about this issue in the November 2008 issue of Conservation Force Bulletin, which is delivered with your monthly issue of The Hunting Report. In his cover story, Jackson explains how African lions are on the verge of being listed on Appendix I of CITES, which would spell the end of African lion hunting. The only way to prevent this from occurring is the creation of country-by-country action plans to conserve lion.

Since Jackson's report, the situation has become even more urgent. Although Jackson has successfully lined up the experts and government authorizations to conduct the necessary field studies in various countries, funding has failed to come through and time is running out. If there are no concrete conservation plans for presentation at the 15th Conference of CITES in January 2010, we will lose the ability to hunt African lion altogether.

So, what will it take to get this very important project done? In an urgent note, Jackson writes, "We need $60,000 this week and $200,000 more from now through April. Eric Pasanisi of Tanganyika Wildlife Safaris has just contributed $20,000, and Michel Mantheakis of Miombo Safaris has contributed $10,000. Conservation Force needs another $30,000 more this week!

"Our campaign to raise the funds over the past few months has been a dismal failure. Worse, Conservation Force has had a serious shortfall in its own operating funds due to the state of the economy. Nevertheless, this is the very last window of opportunity if the lion is not to be listed. When it is over, it is over."

Conservation Force and International Foundation for Conservation of Wildlife serve on the African Lion Working Group and the IUCN Cat Specialist Group. They are partnered to make the hunting community the Ducks Unlimited of the African lion and enhance the profile of hunting in turn. Please make a tax deductible contribution to Conservation Force and help save the African lion and our ability to hunt this magnificent species. Send donations to PO Box 278, Metairie, LA 70004-0278. Credit card payments are accepted. Call 504-837-1233 for more information or visit the Conservation Force web site at http://www.conservationforce.org/.


Seloushunter

GUYS!!! ABOVE is what this thread is ABOUT!!! Forget SCI in THIS thread!!!

Go to www.conservationforce.org and donate ANY AMOUNT!!! OBAMA got zillions

by lots of people sending him 5 or 10 bucks because that's all they could spring

for. Skip a few cups of coffee at the local place that overcharges you and help

to save LION HUNTING, if not for yourself, do it for your children.

What a great start. Maybe we can make difference.

Saeed any chance of mailing this "emergency" request to all the members of eve?

This could be a great way to raise the profile of AR if we, as a group, can help with the short term funding issues.

I will send them a donation. This is serious business.

I have already donate $1000 to CF. Will pony up another $500 for this specific item.

Jeff

Done. I sent my $100. Anty up boys and girls! I hope SCI picks up the cause.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I don't see how lobbying the US congress on hunting laws can affect the various countries in Africa. Those countries have their own Governments, Game Depts and hunting laws.

Steve,

I must strongly disagree with you on this point! Our government sends out BILLIONS of dollars every year to a multitude of African nations. Some of this aid is specifically designated for wildlife conservation and improvement of rural communities. Very recently there was an attempt by anti hunting organization to shut down this funding to hurt the hunting industries in these countries. SCI and other organizations worked to lobby congress to see that the funding continued. Lobbying is very expensive. Elected officials in our country really listen when it’s in their financial/political interest. I'm sure SCI spends staggering amounts of money on lobbying, but they have to.

I too would love to see more grass roots philanthropy by SCI, but let me put it to you this way:

Scenario 1 - SCI spends all its money on grass roots efforts to provide tangible benefits throughout the world (Africa included). They stop lobbying US and African countries on behalf of hunters. Anti-hunting organizations solely have the ears and pockets of politicians. Slowly hunting is restricted and limited until species are protected from hunting, countries and states closed to hunting, and bans are placed on importation until the hunting industry is crippled.

Scenario 2 - SCI spends time and money on litigation and lobbying to keep animals importable, open new species to imports, keep US funding to hunting and conservation programs in the US and the world over, lobbies CITES countries to vote down lion listing ect. SCI spends some of its money on tangible grass roots philanthropy. We complain about weather they REALLY do anything because we can't see it or there isn't a fancy sign saying "SCI Was Here".

Just my two cents.

Brett

+1

+2

quote:

Originally posted by JohnHunt:
What a great start. Maybe we can make difference.

Saeed any chance of mailing this "emergency" request to all the members of eve?

This could be a great way to raise the profile of AR if we, as a group, can help with the short term funding issues.

We do have the facility to mass mail to all members, but it is against our policy to so.

We have never done it before, and I honestly cannot see any reason to start now.

Brett: +300! My posting of just some of the items on the SCI Webpage was merely illustrative. Many of those listed items had their own links, like Conservation Efforts:ZiMoZa; Regional Strategy for Lions; Elephants and Ivory in Zimbabwe; Cites, WFSA; etc, etc, etc. And, I didn't even list the items that the SCI Foundation or SABLES or others are involved in. Is SCI perfect? No! But belonging to it is a hell of a lot better than the alternative that you(Brett) were talking about. What affects us American Hunters will certainly affect the rest of you. Don't be dillusioned into believing or thinking otherwise.