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Steve, Let's agree to agree! They do important things, their ethics need work, and it would be nice to see them work on the lion issue. Larry, Good post. Have fun at ACDC. I'm jealous! All, Let's wait until SCI gets back to JohnHunt. What's the situation with conservation force and the money they need? Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Not quite true Saeed, given that CITES allows the export of hunting trophies of African elephants from member countries whom are granted quotas. It took a lot of lobbying of the member nations of CITES to allow for those export permits and SCI was an important part of that effort. The UAE is a member nation of CITES and is bound by the treaty. | |||
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DOJ I have searched SCI web site and found very few expenditures outside of lobby efforts. These were as Saeed said for anti-poaching and co-sponsering some workshops with other organizations. I found it hard to believe only $300,000 is spent for wages in SCI. What does it cost to maintain the headquarters,trophy record keeping and the staff? I think if we could see the books we would be very supprised how much is spent on expense accounts for lobbyists i.e. travel, food, hotel rooms etc. What I would like to see if they would spend a portion of that money on grass roots projects. Let say 25 percent of what is left after operating expenses. That would be great PR. DOJ, I can see you are very passionate about the SCI and what it does and I applaud you for that. But, Saeed and others have valid questions as I do. DOJ being sarcastic and condescending does not present itself well. I am sure you do not mean to do that. And you are only trying to get your point across and defend SCI and rightly so. I spent over 35 years in the wildlife field. And even after retirement I continue to do my part for wildlife. I am going to use an example of what I did. Think what SCI could do in Africa with a few of its millions. I took 120 acres of farm land, I purchased 25 years ago and over the years returned it to its natural state for wildlife. I put in ponds, restored a stream. Planted trees, strubs and native grasses over the last 20 years. I do not know how much I spent but, it was worth every penny. It now abounds in deer, turkey and quail. I do not hunt the place myself but I have set it aside for the disabled, young hunters, single fathers, mothers to bring their children out to hunt. Finally because of it has been a temendous effort and the economy has made it hard for me to keep up. I have now seen to it, the public will get to use it forever. I am not blowing my own horn here. I was trying do my part. Now, if I can do something that small, why cannot SCI do something like that on a larger scale in S. Africa or Namibia, or Zimbabwe when the political climate permits. Think of the water holes, they could build for wildlife for drought etc. Fencing to keep out unwanted animals form communal farming areas. Research into Lions, leopards, cheetah's. The list is endless. This all can be done to SCI's benifit and hunting. Let us look for solutions how to do things better. Let us not have our ego's get in the way. I believe it is now time for SCI to step up to the next level. Brooks | |||
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Brett, Thanks. That is exactly the type of info I hoped to get in response to my posting.  Also the following by Scott450: ".....I do not think that Lions will close forever, what i do know is that they will only get more expensive and should the industry self regulate properly the trophy quality can only get better." These two postings cleared some very grey areas in my understanding of the situation. I agree that all hunting organizations, like SA Hunters, PHASA and other national PH bodies and SCI should all pitch in and help the industry to self-regulate. And IMHO an organisation like SCI can make a hellofa difference! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren | |||
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Sheesh! I'm not sure who's blind or who has another agenda, but...a few minutes spent on the SCI web site found: Their stated purpose; "The purposes and objectives of Safari Club International are: A. Protect Rights of Hunters. To advocate, preserve and protect the rights of all hunters; B. Promote Hunting. To promote safe, legal and ethical hunting and reiated activities; C. Engage in Advocacy. Within the limits imposed by law and regulation, to monitor, support, educate or otherwise take positions on local, national and internationallegislatlve, executive, judicial or organizational endeavors that foster and support these purposes and objectives; D. Educate Public Regarding Hunting. To inform and educate lhe public concerning hunting and related activities; E. Other Purposes. To conduct those purposes set forth in SCI's Articles of Incorporation." - It seems to me that if you are looking for some other works than they propose to accomplish you are on the wrong track! - The Safari Club International Foundation highlights its works: "Al -EDUCATION PROJECTS 1. OVER 25 PROJECTS CONDUCTED TO EDUCATE HUNTERS AND NON-HUNTERS ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT, ECOSYSTEMS, OUTDOOR LIVING SKILLS AND THE CRITICAL ROLE THE HUNTING SPORTSMAN PLAYS IN SCIENTIFIC WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT AND ITS PRODUCTIVE IMPACT ON WILDLIFE POPULATIONS. 2. INTERNATIONAL WILDLIFE MUSEUM -OPERATING COSTS OF selF'S NATURAL HISTORY MUSEUM CONSTRUCTED TO PRESERVE AND DISPLAY THE PHYSICAL HISTORY OF WILDLIFE OF THE WORLD AND To EDUCATE THE PUBLIC oN SCIENTIFIC CONSERVATION AND BIODIVERSITY ISSUES WHICH IMPACT CURRENT AND FUTURE WUDLIFE POPULATIONS. APPROXIMATELY 76,275 VISITORS. 3. AMERICAN WILDERNESS LEADERSHIP SCHOOL -FACILITIES AND PROGRAMS FOR CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION PRoGRAMS. 9 SESSIONS AT~~ENDED BY 297 INDIVIDUALS/ INCLUDING TEACHERS WHO WILL IMPLEMENT P~)GRAMS THROUGHOUT THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEMS. 4. EDUCATION & HUMANITARIAN RELIEF -CONDUCT VARIOUS EDUCATIONAL PROJECTS EMPHASIZING THE SCIENTIFIC MANAGEMENT of WILDLIFE poPULATIONS SUCH AS THE APPRENTICE HUNTER PROGRAM PROVIDING YOUTH THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN ABOUT HUNTING SAFETY AND OUTDoOR LIVING SKILLS. ALSO, CONDUCT NIDiEROUS HOMANITARIAN RELIEF PROJECTS SUCH AS SPORTSMEN AGAINST HUNGER SERVING MILLIONS OF MEALS THROUGH FoOD BANKS AND HOMELESS SHELTERS, SENSORY SAFARI PROJECTS ENABLING VISUALLY IMPAIRED CHILDREN AND ADULTS To SE:~ IvILDLH"E THRoUGH THEIR SENSE OF TOUCH, AND SAFARI CARE CONTRIBUTING TO DIShSTER RELIEF PROGRAMS WORLDWIDE. (B) -CONSERVATION PRoJECTS $1,131,B25 SPENT ON PROJECTS CONDUCTED WORLDWIDE TO ESTABLISH AND SUPPORT SCIENTIFIC AND BIOLOGICAL STUDIES OF WILDLIFE POPULATIONS IN ORDER TO ASSURE THE LONG-T~RM SUSTAINABILITY OF WILDLIFE POPULATIoNS CONS  ERING THEIR ECOLOGICAL CONNECTIONS. PROJECTS INCLUDE WILDLIFE RELOCATION, COLLARING AND MONITORING, AND SEVERAL GRANTS TOTALING $21,000 TO OTHER EXFMPT ENTITIES TO FURTHER THESE CONSERVATION EFFORTS. (C) -UNIVERSITY SCHOLARSHIPS PROVIDED 20 SCHOLARSHIPS TOTALING $139,641 AND CONTRIBUTED $1,913,453 TO UNIVERSITY ENDOWMENT FUNDS TO BENEFIT UNIVERSITY STUDENTS MAJORING IN NA'1'URAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT I WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT I ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION, ANIMAL HUSBANDRY, OR RELATED FIELDS. " - Some of their Conservation projects worldwide are identified here: SCI Foundation - Some of the Conservation projects by Chapters are listed as follows: Translocation of Depredating Mule Deer Sheep & Deer Drinkers Bighorn Sheep Lamb Survival Sierra Nevada Bighorn Projects Mountain Goat Transplants Zambezi Lion Research Mule Deer Predator/Prey Research Gallatin Valley Land Trust Effects of Hunting on Black Bears Moose Reintroduction Bluebird Conservation Desert Sheep Water Guzzlers Kodiak Brown Bear Trust Dall Sheep Habitat Research National Elk Refuge Support Conservation through Hunting Estimating Black Bear Reproductive Potential from Harvest Data Western Montana Sympatric Moose and Elk Study Boulder Mountain Black Bears Water Buffalo Research and Abatement Colorado Buck Survival Study Giant Sable Expedition Angling and Fish Conservation Inland Empire Deer Research Sharp-tail Grouse Population Survey Denver's Inaugural Conservation Carnival Brown Bear Habitat Use Research Bat Conservation Argali Sheep Population Study Black Bear DNA Population Tracking Land Management Equipment Donation Washington Wild Sheep Recovery Idaho Anti-Poaching Efforts Yucatan Jaguar Habitat Preservation Sportsman Education Elk Food Plots CWD Testing Andean Condor Breeding and Reintroduction California Desert Bighorn Range & Movement Study Bighorn Sheep Survival Billy Creek State Wildlife Area Habitat Enhancement Blackcock Habitat Reconstruction SCI Foundation CITES Involvement Deer Management for the 21st Century Michigan DNR Fluorescent Microscope Funding Elk Escape Ramp Endangered Species Biomaterials Banking and Cloning Game Bird Heritage Program Northeastern San Diego County Game Capture Study Mercer Waterfowl Refuge Annual Roundup Montana Mountain Goat Restoration Greater Dacotah Mountain Lion Research North Carolina Triangle Black Bear Research Overton Wildlife Management Seeding The Ventana Foundation Tundra Swan Migration Satellite Study Zambia Anti-Poaching Initiative - All the above are plainly listed on the web sites or in the Form 990's that have been discussed. It appears to me that they are doing about what they say they were going to do, and if you have a personal issue with their performance toward their goals you might better take it up with them directly rather than each other here, or, not support them at all and ignore them entirely. It seems to me that those who contribute [or are "extorted"] have the most direct interests and can choose how they participate or not. Just my opinion! Les | |||
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Just some clean up Shakari,
As has been pointed out SCI is not a Charity but a 'not for profit business'. This would be the same category as the Lions Club, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Jaycees, The NRA and other service organizations.
Great, it is the goal of most business to be successful without needing to advertise.
Sounds like he doesn't trust you as only you could have released his name. Be that as it may I have sat in on many meetings with exhibitors who have no problem expressing their views about the Convention and it's costs. I don't remember any backlash. Perhaps you could give us some examples?
Really? What makes you think that because CITES says something anyone has to listen? CITES says Black Bears are not endangered anywhere in there range and yet Australia refuses importation because someone there thinks they are. Cheetah are eligible for exportation from Namibia but the US refuses to let any in. Elephant cannot be imported to Australia despite CITES. CITES does not make the law, they only judge the protection level and make recommendations. Individual Countries decide whether or not they will except the rulings.
At the time it was built, late 80's, it did cost a lot and it did offend many members. I have heard it called Fort McElroy many times. Fortunately it was paid for by individual and Chapter donations. Many Chapters, including the ones I belong to, refused to give a penny for it. Now though it serves a purpose that most are proud of. It is a World Class Museum and hosts thousands of people every year, including School Children. It is the main Headquarters of SCI and it is paid for. Upkeep is the only expense.
I agree and cannot defend it. I guess they would tell you that OoA has not been convicted anywhere for it's dealings and to refuse them a spot could bring on a Law suit. I don't personally buy that but I am just guessing. Money is the name of the game isn't it.
So do you sell these adds you speak of or accept them for free. Your continual flogging of your site, even posting to only flog it is annoying to me and others. I have received an anonymous email suggesting that I use the spelling $hakari.  Die Ou Jagter
I believe this is the 'volunteer staff'. When you add in the salaries for the Paid Staff the figure is much higher. SCI is primarily a Lobbying/Educational Organization. Most of the money goes to paying Lobbyists, Scientists, Expenses to attend various Conferences, Lawsuits and other similar things. Very rarely do they operate or fund programs on the ground. That is what local organizations are for. Conservation Force is a competitor of SCI in some of these endeavors. Somtimes they work together and sometimes they donn't. I doubt if SCI would give much money to John for a project that he has started and that he will run. Perhaps SCI is approaching this from another direction. I have no idea. It is too bad that we all can't cooperate on all things and sing Kumbaya at the end of the day but that is the way of the World. Gator A Proud Member of the Obamanation "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 "There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." George Orwell | |||
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Les, That's a very interesting list. I note it mentions humanitarian relief....... I wonder where? - For example, Zimbabwe is a very popular hunting country and if any people were in need of humanitarian relief, it's them..... perhaps someone can tell me what the SCI as an organisation is doing in Zimbabwe? If they are doing something, they seem to be keeping very quiet about it. I should say, I'd be very pleased if they are doing something, but to the best of my knowledge, they're not. I also note they list the giant sable project and I wonder what help they're offering there. I certainly happen to know that they were approached for financial help to buy the rangers motorcycles etc and they declined. I'd also be very interested in hearing why they continue to accept booth bookings and donations from a certain company who's name is similar to a very famous film about the dark continent.  | |||
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Les, I did a Google search on the 3 projects listed above in Africa - that is all I could see about Africa. One cost $45,000, one $6,260 and one had no value on it. It would appear that an artist in the Alaska Chapter of SCI is sponsoring that. And from the messages I am getting, it seems no hunting outfitter dare question SCI's and their way of getting "donations" from them. They are afraid they will get blacklisted!? | |||
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Gator, You said ' As has been pointed out SCI is not a Charity but a 'not for profit business'. This would be the same category as the Lions Club, Veterans of Foreign Wars, Jaycees, The NRA and other service organizations. ' For a 'not for profit business' they don't do too bad do they?  | |||
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Die Ou Jagter
A fellow named Thom Halligan has gotten British Columbia and the State of Washington to pass laws that wave all fees and licenses for terminally ill individuals of any age to hunt in those places. He also has a list of Outfitters that will give the people Free Hunts. The only expenses are transportation. This is not through SCI but he will work with individual Chapters. He used to be in SCI but got tossed when he objected to a couple of local NW Chapter members trying to take credit for his effort to further their own Political Goals within SCI. PM me if you, or anyone, wants more information. Brooks
That is what the Chapters do. I think you would see a much greater amount than 25% of the SCI Net spent doing exactly that. Gator A Proud Member of the Obamanation "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 "There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." George Orwell | |||
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They don't do too badly. That is good by the way.  Would you rather they didn't exist or that they didn't have any money? Gator A Proud Member of the Obamanation "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 "There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." George Orwell | |||
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I'd rather they either spent some of it in Africa or alternatively changed the way they do business so they don't extort quite so much out of the African hunting industry. One of the things many people don't realise is that all that money they siphon off from the industry then has to be recovered throughout the season and it's one of the major reasons safaris are sooooooo expensive. | |||
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Steve, The listed reference was a Chapter activity: Giant Sable Humanitarian Aid- well,there are a lot of places in the world needing aid, maybe as much as Zimbabwe. "a certain company"- While we all know how you feel about them, and, I suspect, most of us agree with your opinion, what, realistically, would you expect SCI to do? When the countries "a certain company" hunt in, and the professional outfitter and hunter associations/organizations in those various countries either allow them to continue to do business or cannot/will not do anything about them? What should a non profit lobbying/advocacy organization do? If no one else can/will do anything? [Take their money and use it for something useful?] Steve, you're preaching to the choir here, we all feel one way or the other about SCI and it's not likely to be changed. And your crusade against the "...certain company' is, well,  Let's just go hunting! Les | |||
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Why would one become a life member of SCI when according to them they do nothing good? No proper research? Plain stupidity? To brag? I dont get it but hey apperently me stating I sent in $20 to for african lion hunting which i will never do is considered bragging. but telling everyone you spend $200000 - $300000 a year in Africa is just stating facts. Sorry for being a braggert about a whole $20 sent to help a good cause. Now you guys can continue to argue about SCI instead of what this thread was started for way to go guys be proud of yourselves and what ever you do dont brag. | |||
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Saeed, I merely respond to your request for more details. These are some, from one year a few years ago. I must assume more exist. As some say these days: "it is what it is"! I would think, as a long time Life Member and operator of this sort of forum, you are way better positioned to ask them directly to identify their activities. They may even be able to identify how much of their income is derived from African oufitters as opposed to art dealers, fur retailers, firearms dealers and manufacturers, wine sales, clothing sales, equipment sales and non-africa outfitters. Les | |||
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Les, I was referring to the organisation not to individual chapters. I happen to know from 3 separate sources the organisation declined to finance the project. Yeah, you're right, there are a lot of places in Africa that need humanitarian aid, but do the SCI organisation (not individual members or chapters) provide any, anywhere? What would I expect them to do about a certain company? - There's been umpteen complaints about them, including one where 2 SCI members bought a 2x1 hunt with camp exclusivity and when they arrived they found there were 18 other hunters in the same camp for the duration of the hunt. Every time this company goes to the ethics committee, it gets kicked out. What I'd expect is for SCI to refuse them floor space and to refuse to accept their donations. I use that as an example of their lack of ethics. Nothing more. | |||
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Well Said Saeed!!!! | |||
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Steve, Me? I'm going hunting, somewhere, anywhere, maybe prairie dogs or elephant, and leaving the politics to the Political Forum! Les | |||
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All, I've started a new thread for the discussion of lion conservation if anyone is interested as this one has been hijacked. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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shakari, I am sorry as I may have missed it, but are you a member of SCI? Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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Gentlemen, I think some of you are missing my point. I have never said SCI never does any good, they do, and we appreciate it. But, from what I gather from ALL the PHs I have had the pleasure of talking to - and since this thread has started, from the messages I have been getting - not a single one of them is happy of how SCI goes about squeezing every dollar out of them. I am sure they would not mind that so much if they could see that at least SOME of that money is put back in African hunting. And so far, from my own look at their web site, and from the links I have been given, we sure are NOT getting the answers we have been asking. The list that Les posted above is the same I saw at the SCI website, and from that I can see only 3 projects concerning Africa, with a total outlay of about $52,000. SCI makes most of their money from the convention. That is clear from the financial report I posted above. And I am guessing a LOT of that comes from hunts they blackmail out of outfitetrs and PH in Africa. Those same outfitters would feel a lot better if SCI would show what they are actually doing with this money. Those who are defending SCI stand on this keep telling us to look at the website, we did, and we still cannot find anything. Let us hope the lady in charge who has been mentioned above can shed some light for us. | |||
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Which endangered species they are cloning ? Who is doing that for them ? I just don't understand. When you clon an animal it's a réplica of another one. You just multiply one given animal not the specimen. At the beggining of the process you insert some cells of "John sheep" in another sheep embryo so you can reproduce again "John Sheep" instead of just another sheep.. I don't get the point.... Cloning doesn't multiply the specie, just produce another John Sheep intead of Tom Sheep.. You just change one embryo of that specie to produce a given animal of that specie, nothing more.. You just change the genetic material of two different animals of the same specie. It can be important if you want to reproduce cow A instead of cow B because cow A produce more milk or gain weight quicker than cow B etc, etc. Maybe SCI can produce more 100 pounders but not more elephants... L | |||
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This site, mentioned above, has some more detail on the SCI Foundation works in that one year. You may have missed it above. Les | |||
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Saeed, I have never heard of someone likeing to spend monies unless it was for their PLEASURE, all my clients complain about the cost of utilities, insurance, advertising etc.. Have you read the complaints on this forum about the airlines? People just like to complain and I am not any different, it is just my complaints are about important things, like last fall in Binga they had no ice for G&T  | |||
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Perish the thought! DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I would like to make a few observations/comments. 1-Saeed raises a valid point. The projects SCI lists on their website are mostly for places other than Africa. A lot of money is raised from the African hunting industry. Most of the projects are elsewhere. 2-All good deeds are not equally visible. For example, it would be very easy to see the benefits of providing a bore hole. It is something tangible. It is not so easy to see the benefits of lobbying and/or legal action. They are nevertheless important. 3-In an earlier post, I referenced $300,000 of officer salaries. Again, these are the salaries for the OFFICERS only. If my memory serves me correctly, there were over $3 million of salaries to non officers. 4- The convention is very very profitable. It is a fund raiser. It surely seems that it is successful. Nothing wrong with that IMHO. | |||
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Everyone stick it up your ass with the SCI bashing now this thread wasnt made for that but you idiots keep hi jacking it using as a place to bash SCI. I could care less if you bash them all day till your blue in the face make a new thread for that and have at it. How dumb can you people be. Read the damn title of this thread African lion Hunting In Crisis its not titled SCI the worse club in the world bash here, so all the idiot that are life members can bitch about a club they joined but never researched it enough and are pissed now. But we should listen to these people that cry about SCI and how they do nothing when there were the idiots that joined it to begin with,,,,,so who is the smart one? | |||
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Pauly, Maybe a little decaf is in order... | |||
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 DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Pauly is actually right re. thread hijacking - however my 10c...... SCI DOES do a great deal of good work on behalf of hunters, particularly in Washington D.C. and largely through the tireless work of people like John Jackson and some others. However we (an African Outfitter) just had to pay $1700 for our 4 day internet connection to our booth at SCI - I don't think extortionate is too strong a word.... | |||
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I'd call that the understatement of the year! They sure as hell know how to squeeze people for maximum profit! | |||
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$425 per day for Internet connection is very reasonable - by SCI standards! If you stayed in your little corner of darkest Africa, you would not have had to pay this. | |||
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Real men dont do this not in my part of the world its normally done by okes wearing handbags and make up "Buy land they have stopped making it"- Mark Twain | |||
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Well, now we HAVE reached the lowest level. This has deteriorated to this since Saeed hijacked the thread in the 6th response on the first page. And, I am sorry that I participated! This should probably now be in that cesspool of irrational comment and USA bashing, the Political Forum. | |||
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Please explain to me how an orgenization such as SCI can honestly charge its exhibitors $425 per day for internat connection? Would you prefer all the Africa outfitters who feel they are being screwed right, left and center by SCI to just shut up and take it? We were discussing the case of that South Africa PH, who a few years ago got the SCI PH Of The Year ward, he then ran off with many owing many people money. Anyone remembers his name? Anyone has any information on what SCI did to help those same hunters get any sort of redress from that "Professional Hunter Of The Year"/ SCI is very quick to boast about what they are doing in Africa, but it is the same old story, we don't see much of it. And when some us dare ask, we are given links to what little SCI has done in 2002. I will be the fisrst one to appologize when I see SOMETHING they have done in Africa for all the rediculous amount of money they take from African outfitters. $1700 mentioned above for 4 days of Internet connection? What do you call this if not out right EXTORTION! | |||
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I reckon Saeed's dead right, but rather than get into another argument, just pause for a moment and consider the total cost of the donations and other ridiculous overcharging that goes on and then ask yourself how any industry can afford that kind of expenditure year after year after year. The short answer is that no industry can support that without adding it onto the cost of the overheads, which in other words means it subsequently gets passed onto the clients. If it wasn't for those unreasonable additional overheads the cost of hunting safaris would be considerably less for everyone. Also remember that it doesn't just affect the outfitters and agents etc, it also affects the game departments, taxidermists and every other bugger that displays at the show...... and they all have to pass that cost onto the consumer. Paying a fair price for booth and services is one thing, getting fleeced in all the other ways is another thing altogether. | |||
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To follow on Saeed's comments - I called and asked what are the criteria for naming a PH or a safari company - SCI PH of the Year or Safari Company of the Year. The response was that the "selection committee" relies on positive hunt reports from SCI members to make the selection. So, if you host a bunch of SCI "big shots" or encourage them to write glowing hunt reports, you get to be "SCI PH of the year". Most organizations when selecting someone or something to honor, do more than rely on 2nd hand information and the good 'ol boy network to pass out awards. Oh, I forgot. SCI is the organization that routinely and by practice, lets members bestow awards on themselves - trophies, plaques, etc - that can be bought from SCI for that very purpose. I really see this as a group of people bent on self congratulations and self recognition. Until they focus on conservation and take the "contest" out of hunting, I will be a bit more supportive. | |||
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Was the internet connection fee paid to SCI or the convention center? Regardless, it is a hell of a lot unless you viewed a lot of porn! LOL. The awards BS is just another way to raise money. I don't fault them for that. It does take a hell of a lot of money to effectively lobby. Actually it is shocking what it costs to lobby. I don't think I have registered an animal since 91. It just doesn't appeal to me. However it does to others and I am not going to fault them. | |||
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