Having returned from my first plains game hunt, I've been bitten by the bug and want to go back for other game.

I have a .458 Winchester Magnum and wonder if this would be a good lion rifle where the minimum caliber is .375.

If so (and I don't see why not) what would be a good choice of bullets. Lion are not very thick skinned and don't weigh more than 500 pounds. 350 grain Hornady? 400 grain A-frame? 500 grain soft point (what kind?) to keep the zeros the same as with solids? Are TSX bullets too tough?

Personally I don't see why my 300 Weatherby would not be satisfactory, except that it's illegal for Lion in most areas.

Indy,

A 458 would be great lion medicine. I think sticking with the same bullet for everything on your safari is probably the best way to go. You'll probably hunt buffalo also at least for bait so a heavy for caliber premium soft would probably work nicely.

A smaller rifle will certainly kill a lion but if you happened to book a tracking hunt or in the case you had to follow-up a wounded lion you might want the added horsepower of the 458 as your shots might not be from an ideal angle.

Mark

well ihavent shot alion, first ill have to go on my first African safari first, but for from my point of view, i wouød opt for a little bit lighter bullet that expands easier and not so slowly as others, the 400 grs or 450 in .450 magnum would be perfect for the lion.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
350 grain Hornady? 400 grain A-frame? 500 grain soft point (what kind?) to keep the zeros the same as with solids? Are TSX bullets too tough?

1. I would be inclined to use a lead core bullet because they tend to expand more quickly than a TSX. www.northforkbullets.com, Woodleigh or an A-Frame would be excellent. I would also consider Rhino or GS Custom HV (not a leaded bullet). If you decide to go with a monometal bullet like the TSX, be sure to go about 10% lighter because otherwise the bullets can be extraordinarly loooooong.

2. If you are hunting other DG such as buff and elephant, I would keep things simple and use the same soft for lion and for the other DG. Since the 458 win mag is a bit lacking in case capacity, I would be tempted to load 450 grain bullets in order to keep velocities up to 2200 fps or even a bit more.

3. A 350 grain Hornady bullet is really a bit light for lion, because (a) sectional density is low, and (b) it is not a bonded core bullet. If you were to shoot a lion up the hind end as he runs away with the 350 Hornady, it may not reach the vitals.

Indy,

I am using Hornady round nose interlock in 300gr for my 375 and woodleigh rn in my double rifle 480 gr.
A hit in the chest will really take the gas out of him and on a charge 500grainers in the chest will curl him up...

Mike

woodleigh also make a 400 gr protected point bullet and also a 480 gr soft (check impact speeds on the latter one though) but it might create some more case room for you.

If I were to use monometal bullets, I'd have to go with 500grains' advice... even though it's 50 grains below his name???

If they'll shot to the point of aim of your solids, North Forks are always reliable in my experience.. as are Swifts.

And, no PH will lift an eyebrow if you show up with Woodleigh's in 480 grains loaded to 2150 or so, both in softs and solids, that's for sure!

The trick, of course, is good bullet placement on your first shot. Like with buffalo, break either the near or far shoulder and get the lungs, too, and just sit still and smoke a good cigar... and then go get your very dead lion... you hope... but that's why they call it hunting dangerous game!

I would recommend a .416 or a .375 for lion, in preference to a .458 Win. Mag. I have killed a lion with a .375 H&H Mag. and another with a .338 Win. Mag., and they were both effective. I think, and the experts seem to agree, that more velocity is better than less.

But if I had to use the .458 Win. Mag., I would go with a fairly quickly expanding bullet of 450 grains, to get the most velocity possible, consistent with good penetration. The North Fork would be a good choice for that application, IMO.

This was discussed in some depth a few weeks ago.

You might want to check out the thread listed below.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/785107794

Be sure to check out my post on that thread. Its the ones with photos of the 400 and 450 grain North Fork in .458.

Andy

...When the time comes to book your lion hunt, ask your P/H what his recommendation is regarding bullets. He'll have more first-hand info in that regard.

I like the 400 grain Trophy Bonded Bearclaw for lion. Federal used to have a factory load which shot beautifully and hammered soft skinned critters. I'm not sure if it is still available but certainly could be duplicated.

HEre is my post w pictures.

I tested all the premium 458's over the last few years and would highly recommend the North Fork 400 grain in your 458.



Pictured above is the 400 grain Barnes X, 400 grain NF soft point, 400 grain TBBC (original w copper jacket), and 400 grain Woodleigh.



Close up of the 400 and 450 grain North Fork recovered at point blank and 100 yards for each.

I ws shooting into 5 gallon nylon water buckets. This set up duplicated dozens of 375, 416 and 458 bullets that have been recovered from buffalo by 90% for retained weight and 95% for expansion.



The 450 grain North Fok (shown belowe with its competition) is also worth considering but with near perfect weight retention the 400 grains higher velocity and similar expansion (82 caliber) I would rather have the faster bullet. They ARE indestructible.



Finally, here is photo fo 400 and 450 NF soft taken from my cape buffalo at point blank range. You can sure use the 400 grain for lion.



Nearly identical expansion and weight retention as water buckets. As you see, the 400 grain NF will hold up just fine. This was at 2700 fps!

My concern about using the new Trophy Bonded by Speer is that they have switched from a nearly pure copper alloy used in original TBBC to gilding metal. It really ruined the 500 grain 458 and will probably be even worse in a 400 grain.

Id stick w the North Fork which retained 60 grains more weight than even the original TBBC!

Andy

Indy,

Use your 458. It will work fine for lion.

I have shot two lions with 350 grain soft points with a 458 and one lion with a 375 with 300 grain A frames.

They all reacted about the same - whirled around, took a couple of steps and went down.

On the subject of the 458 and lions I was talking to Larry at Superior Ammunition. He says he is getting very good reports on the 450gr. TSX for everything including cats. He also said with a 24" barrel you should get 2300fps easily. He probably gets as much real world feedback on bullet performance as anybody in the hunting business so I'm taking his advise an ordering some test loads in anticipation of a cat/elephant hunt in the near future.

Mark

Thanks everyone for all the advice. Those pictures of the North Fork bullets are very impressive. I wonder, though, if they're not kind of long for the magazine.

Would find it hard to beet 400 - 450grn X or TSX bullets.

Prefere the .400grn personally for lion but it is on the light side as a GP bullet if you wish to include buff. Would be sorely tempted to work up a great 400grn load with TSX bullets sand use it on everthing from impala up tp eleand, and then picka 450-500grn soft that shoot where your sights are set for the buff.

Indy,

You should not have any problem w length on the North Fork.

They are 1.305 inches long for the 400 grain, which is what Id use in your 458 WM, and the 450 grain is 1.495.

The 450 grain is about same length as a 450 grain Barnes X or 500 grain Swift.

Andy

Originally posted by Andy under :Top quality soft points vs solids for buffalo":
Just bonding the lead core to a 95-5 (gilding metal) or 90-10 (Woodleigh) jacket is no guarantee of success.

Pictured is disapointing performance from the 458 caliber A-Square Dead Tough, 500 grain Woodleigh Protected Point, and Hornady Interbond.



The Woodleigh PP is the best of this poor lot but clearly over expanded.

Andy


Looks likr the 458 Woodleigh PP would make an excellent lion load in the 458 Win.

465H&H

Hornady is listing both their 500 gr encapsulated solid and the 500 gr Interbond SP 458 Win at 2260 FPS in the "Heavy Magnum" factory loads. Does anyone have any knowledge about whether these velocities are correct? Seems like these should be good for lion or buff. The solid though,is a round nose. Whoops, just saw the post on soft/solids on buff with the picture of a disentegrated Interbond, but don't know what it hit.

Velocities of these loads I tested in 3 different 458s ran consistenrly at around 2,150. That's 110 fps less than advertised.

465H&H

Thanks 465 H&H, I had just resighted my 458 to the Hornadys, but after your post and Andy's photos on the Hornady SP, I will be taking the TBBC to Tanzania for lion/buff in 10 days. The velocities will be similiar, but the TBBC should hold up better on a shoulder shot on buff, plus give equal velocity on lion, although not as good expansion. Back-up/plains game rifle will be 375 H&H with 300 gr A-frames. Solids wil be sledgehammers for both calibers. although I've got a box of Grand Slams in 458 that might be better than the SH's. Or maybe a box of Hornadys and a box of TBBC's. Or maybe--shit, now I'm more confused than normal. Whatever, more sighting in this week.

Steve,

Since you are taking two rifles I would keep your ammo load out as simple as possible.

I took three loads with me when I hunted buff and elephant (north fork soft point, FN and TCCI RN), and it was one too many.

I would load up with 30 softs and 10 FMJ for each caliber.

Your PH will probably let you fill up the magazine w premium soft points and carry an ammo wallet of solids.

I would take whichever FMJ shot most closely to your premium soft points.



Pictured is new style 500 grain .458 Trophy Bonded Speer with gilding metal rather than pure copper jacket.

This was recovered at 2,400 fps so dont worry about yours at 2,100 or so.

Good luck and send us pictures of your buff and bullets!

Andy

Thanks, Good Photo Too.

I was looking into utilizing the Barnes Original 600 gr .458 bullets in my Lott for lion when I finaly ga after one. What is the assessment for this choice? They seam to open up good. I have not even been to Africa yet but the vid's I have seen the lion don't look that hard to kill with a solid hit. I have seen Elk take way more abuse. Athough Elk seldom try to kill you for shooting them!

Good hunting and Semper Fi.

I shot this buffalo three weeks ago in Zimbabwe with a .458 Lott and the Hornady factory softs (interbond). Though the bull went only 80 yards after the shot, the bullet came apart (must have hit some shoulder bone). I am a huge Barnes fan, and will use the Barnes X in the .458 Lott for buffalo from here on out. I assume it would work well on lion.

Bwana,

Can you post a picture of your Hornady Interbond bullet for us?

The one I recovered was star shaped and mashed flat w very little weight retention.

Nice buff!

Andy