Dear Friends,

We have been privileged to have been asked by National parks in Zimbabwe to assist them in controlling the overpopulation of Elephant herds in the National Parks of Zimbabwe. This is an exceptional privilege that no private individual has had before. Londonhunter was the first person to join us and he had a wonderful experience.
We need volunteers to assist us with this operation.

Numzaan

Which National Parks will this operation be taking place and what is install for the volunteer?

I know a PH doing this. Seems similar to the PAC hunts and ain't cheaper. It certainly seems to be in a gray area. I would recommend caution.

I would check with Ganyana before touching this.

This must be my lucky day. I was just offered an opportunity by an exiled member of royalty in Nigeria to help him free his rightful fortune now this. I'm going to go buy some lottery tickets.

Botom line. It is Ulta vris the parks act. No foreign national may legally hunt any animal in a national park. This is fraud.

Not even the minister, let alone the director of Scientific services may give such permission.

To all you guys wondering why your trophies are being held up? It is illegal and unethical operators such as this that are giving US F& w the ammuntion they need to bar your trophies comming out of Zim.

Anybody want confirmation? Email the association soaz@mweb.co.zw- and bear in mind that the Soaz committee is made up of 50% "NEW OPERATORS" who have benefited from free government hand outs

This cannot possibly be legal.

Before being party to a crime, please email the association as above. Or National parks natparks@mweb.co.zw or even myself fishunt@zol.co.zw or call me on 263-4-572787

Don Heath
Chief Examiner, Zimbabwe professional Hunters & Guides association
Editor, African Hunter Magazine

No surprise there. Thanks for the response. The guy with 1 post can now crawl back into the hole he came from, reinvent himself or whatever it is that they do.

It seems like every few weeks another person comes along offering cull hunts...sometimes on the hush hush and sometimes blatantly. The end result is always the same.

Here's their website:

http://www.numzaan.com

Stef Swanepoel: Outfitter and PH
stef@numzaan.com

Michael: US Representative, West Coast
mustbhuntn@hotmail.com

Tommy Ianellie: US Representative, East Coast
TMILandscape@aol.com

Another South African operation trying to sell cull hunts in Zim. In the words of Yogi Berra, "This is like deja vu all over again."

I always wonder why people, time and again, work through South African PHs to hunt other countries. People, South African PHs cannot legally guide hunts in other countries unless they are licenced in those countries. And many other countries, eg Zim, require that you be a resident to get a licence in that country. All you are doing is employing an expensive chauffeur who is also marking up the hunt, and asking for problems that go along with having a middleman. If you want to hunt in Zim, employ a Zim outfit with Zim PHs; who, BTW, are ten times better trained and qualified than many of the "instant just add water" PHs from South Africa.

To add to this problem, some of these S African outfits are working with shady figures in Zim. In these cases, you not only pay more but you also risk not receiving your trophies.

South African PHs are fine (for the most part) for what they do: Ranch hunts in South Africa. But again, note some of them own the ranch, some lease the ranch for the season, and some just drive you around to various pieces of property in the vicinity of their "Base Camp" for an ad hoc hunt. Make sure you know which you are getting. Some are also licenced in Moz and Tanz and may have their own concessions there, nothing wrong with that. But if you want to hunt in Namibia, book with a Namibian PH. If you want to hunt in Zim, book with a Zim PH. Ditto for Botswana.

This is the kind of mistake that uninformed people make when they think they are going to save money by avoiding a booking agent or when they become pals with a SA PH and use him as their hunt arranger for their followup hunts.

"Just an update further to comments made here and advice and this outfit cannot assure me that this hunt is bonafide I have cancelled all my arrangements."

This is Londonhunter regarding this cull hunt, from another post on AR. So this REALLY calls into question the bona fides of this thread.

Hmmm...I knew it seemed kind of shady....

I cannot believe that there are people out there that call themselves hunters that can go out and call somebody names without getting the facts fist. Were I come from we ask a person questions and give him the opportunity to respond before we call him a names. You are more than welcome to call me directly and/or contact me via email. All my details are on my website, www.numzaan.com. The hunt is legal we have the permission to assist the Parks and we are working with a Zimbabwean registered operator. I have been hunting In Zimbabwe with Registered outfitters for many years and know how the system works. I have never hunted anything illegal and will never. Please “GENTLEMEN†let’s get the facts straight before we attack someone.

Numzaan

OK so let's hear about Londonhunter. Did he in fact hunt, or did he cancel his hunt as he states on another thread? If he hunted, in which National Park? And with which registered PH in Zimbabwe?

You have to realize, you are going up against the heaviest of hitters (not me) on this thread.

I find this facinating. An activity which requires an act of parliment to allow (and there isn't one)is being publically advertised.

There has ben considerable illegal hunting in some of our National Parks which the parks authority have been quick to deny. Fortunately, as a result of this thread, the minister has instituted a board of enquiry. I thank you for bringing this into the open, but may I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Parks & Wildlife act (Chapter 20:14). Without amending the Act, neither National Parks, nor the Minister may allow a foreign national to hunt any animal inside a national park.

I appreciate you are simply acting as a booking agent for a Zimbabwean operator and that he is the one breaking the law, but it is you who is advertising an illegal activity.

PS- the phones don’t work here. Please feel free to email me fishunt@zol.co.zw

I can confirm that the hunt did take place and that there were official observers plus 05 PH's were also present. prior to the trip I posted that I did not go ahead with the hunt on the advice of the PH since there are too many non believers and also to make sure there are no hickups. It went very well and well organised.

londonhunter- Would you be kind enought to post the particulars of your hunt. Where did it take place, how many elephants taken, what did it cost? Also please post pictures if possible as these always add to a hunt report. Was this something you would do again? Was it all positive or were there negatives as well? What was the country like and did you see any violence? Were you ever concerned about your safety? Was there any anxiety/ stress from the locals concerning the coming election?

Please details and photos.

Ganyana,

Thanks for chiming in here. You are the bomb. Assuming there is a shade of gray here, which I beleive there isn't. To undertake a questionable hunt in an unstable political environment ain't bright. Don't forget US hunters would get to deal with Lacy Act charges once home. USFWS are getting pretty testy these days.

Jeff

Gentlemen,
I would imagine the laws regarding legally licensed Hunting of Game Species does not take into account emergency culling of disatrous overpopulations of certain species. Most Gov't's have emergency "procedures" to get around almost any law on an "emergency" basis. I have no doubt that the elephant population in some parks has long been too high. I would not choose to be in on a culling operation because of the nature of it, but if it is something that needs (for the animals and Park's benefit)done--as culling clearly does in places--and if the Gov't has made it possible for foreigners to be involved on an emergency basis, then we should welcome it--not be name calling and throwing stones. Despite the knowledge of some of our members of Zimbabwe HUNTING regulations and PARK regulations, who here has direct knowledge of what has transpired in the house of Uncle Bob and his Cronies regarding this cull? Others have been unfairly equated with swindlers here in the past over this same issue.
The Lacy Act involves illegally taken wildlife. If the cull was approved by the Gov't, then it would not be illegal. We DO NOT HAVE ALL THE FACTS.

Steve, I think you're missing the point. There is NO provision for this type of thing to be taking place (certainly not clients and foreign PHs). If you're referring to past things of which I think you are...that person almost got in big trouble and in the end was very glad that they had not gone any further. They also were sure they were right...until they found out they were wrong. I don't want to say any more than that about that particular situation.

YD,
My point is that Provisions for "emergency situations" are frequently made by Federal Govt's executive branch, and that The Zim Gov't likely makes many such "Provisions" that are only known to a few. We do not know without more information. We do not have enough info to either confirm or deny whether the seller fits into this category. We do have enough info to KNOW that the elephant populations in many parks is disastrously high and NEEDS culling for the benefit of the Parks and Wildlife.
We do know that the above individual has offered to provide additonal information. It may be of a nature better suited to individual phone calls rather than a posting on an internet public forum.

quote:

Originally posted by SGraves155:
YD,
My point is that Provisions for "emergency situations" are frequently made by Federal Govt's executive branch, and that The Zim Gov't likely makes many such "Provisions" that are only known to a few. We do not know without more information. We do not have enough info to either confirm or deny whether the seller fits into this category. We do have enough info to KNOW that the elephant populations in many parks is disastrously high and NEEDS culling for the benefit of the Parks and Wildlife.

Don Heath's post seemed pretty clear to me:

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:
I find this facinating. An activity which requires an act of parliment to allow (and there isn't one)is being publically advertised.

There has ben considerable illegal hunting in some of our National Parks which the parks authority have been quick to deny. Fortunately, as a result of this thread, the minister has instituted a board of enquiry. I thank you for bringing this into the open, but may I suggest you familiarise yourself with the Parks & Wildlife act (Chapter 20:14). Without amending the Act, neither National Parks, nor the Minister may allow a foreign national to hunt any animal inside a national park.

I appreciate you are simply acting as a booking agent for a Zimbabwean operator and that he is the one breaking the law, but it is you who is advertising an illegal activity.

PS- the phones don’t work here. Please feel free to email me fishunt@zol.co.zw

Of course I am not a Zimbabwean lawyer so I don't know it all...

I'll certainly agree that the numbers are sky high and something needs done but it won't happen this way. How many times have we seen this exact thing offered and it's always by a foreign PH who has some kind of "in" with Zim Parks. It NEVER pans out...I mean ever.

If this were really a possibility then why would there now be an official enquiry by the Minister per Don Heath? It's illegal from any angle.

Gents,

The idea that the Zim Govt/Parks board would ask a private game farmer/PH in RSA to "help them" with an elephant cull in the National Parks in Zim is pretty far-fetched. After all, culling ele is nothing new in Zim, it was done in the thousands not too many years ago by Parks rangers assisted by qualified and experienced PHs in Zim. And the PAC program, campfire program, and indeed the very concept of "Safari Areas" with managed ele quotas is all part of the elephant management program in Zim.

If the govt for some reason did decide they needed "help" (ie dollars), they would offer this program to their own safari industry esp. considering their philosophy of indigenization of the industry.

So I for one remain skeptical of the legality of this hunt, even if it appears that one such hunt brokered by/conducted by this poster did in fact take place. By the hunter's own admission, it was a cloak and dagger affair.

"official observers", 5 PHs, and "went very well and well organized". Somehow, this part just doesn't sound like an illegal operation.

My main concern is that culling DESPERATELY NEEDS to occur for the Elephant's sake/benefit--and some here appear to be trying to prevent any chance at a cull happening when they attack operators who offer such. Instead of casting stones, we should be wishing that the cull takes place. If US hunters wish to get involved, then let them call and ascertain the facts for themselves.

Who is the organizing Zim PH?

I have a hunch...

Steve, on the contrary, my desire is that someone not get into serious trouble here. Most of the guys around here have seen this before (as it's hardly original) but in case someone new was interested, the legal details need to be brought to light.

If it's legit then it will take place...but it's not, so it won't.

Bill, if it's the same guy as in the past, he needs to get busted instead of resurfacing again and again.

quote:

Originally posted by numzaan stef:
I cannot believe that there are people out there that call themselves hunters that can go out and call somebody names without getting the facts fist. Were I come from we ask a person questions and give him the opportunity to respond before we call him a names. You are more than welcome to call me directly and/or contact me via email. All my details are on my website, www.numzaan.com. The hunt is legal we have the permission to assist the Parks and we are working with a Zimbabwean registered operator. I have been hunting In Zimbabwe with Registered outfitters for many years and know how the system works. I have never hunted anything illegal and will never. Please “GENTLEMEN†let’s get the facts straight before we attack someone.

Numzaan

I visited your website and their are no details on hunting elephant in Zimbabwe parks there.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
.......
I visited your website and their are no details on hunting elephant in Zimbabwe parks there.

In fairness to Stef, very few HO's update their web pages so regularly. The hunting opportunities recently made available in the "Parks" may just not have been added to the web site yet.

Quoted from Numzaan Safaris' website:

"Welcome to Numzaan Safaris
Submitted by webmaster on Mon, 2006-12-11:58. "

...

"ZIMBABWE 2008
Guide Line to the type and cost of hunts offered by NUMZAAN SAFARIS in Zimbabwe– 2007 Rates.

Please note, the hunts listed below are a general guideline and NUMZAAN SAFARIS can tailor a hunt to suite specific requests...... "

The offer by Numzaan Safaris is not the only recent offer to hunt in a southern African National Park. IIRC there has been a recent AR posting that offers to hunt in the Kruger National Park! Surely, whatever applies to the hunting of foreign clients "inside" a Zimbabwe National Park, very simialr rules will apply to hunting "in" the KNP?

Only other thing I'll say: "'n Toe bek is 'n heel bek!" A reasonable translation odf this Afrikaans saying into English may be; I'll keep my mouth shut!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I have had the pleasure to hunt with many Professional Hunters from Zimbabwe over the last 15 years. All of them are still good friends and I still do a lot of hunts with them. I hunt in Tanzania and Mozambique, and none of those operators hold my Nationality against me, on the contrary, they welcome our business. Not once till now have any of them “badmouthed†me because of my nationality(South African). I do realize that my 26 Elephant and 42 Buffalo that I have hunted does not compare with the Zimbabwean PH’s. I am a Professional Hunter with 15 years of experience in all of Southern Africa and I run a professional Outfit. The fact that we “South Africans†take the initiative to go beyond our borders and do business does not make us “badâ€. We are good enough that our clients are satisfied with the quality of service that they prefer to hunt with us. Do you not think that that is a sign that we do our job professionally?
Again I would like to ask you, do not speculate and crucify.

Numzaan

There has been no “amendments†issued under presidential emergency powers with respect to any aspect of Parks and Wildlife Management. Nor is government aware of what has been going on.

Stef has promised to send the association basic details of who is running the operation on our side. Ie- who are the PH’s and what is the operator’s name / HOP No .Or even, Just the TR2 Number! It will then be a very simple matter to find out who has issued what permits on our side, and I will make those finding known to the forum.

And yes, National Parks has planned to cull elephants every year since 1996 and CITES have approved our application to cull, 5000 a year (between 1996 and 2005) and 10,000 a year since. National Parks have very limited capacity to carry out such activity, although the culling unit in Hwange national park is operational and the officer commanding is competent to carry out a cull. Still, there is a need for private sector involvement to actually get the job done. That said, however, there are still procedures to be followed - such as formally changing the law that bars non serving parks officers from participating in culling operations. That SI is still in force since the two accidents in 1986 when two honorary officers were killed on culls. Simple matter to repeal, or to re-start the honorary officer system and “deputise†the culling team, but it still needs to be done.

And, Until such time as the basic legal framework is in place, clients are hunting illegally inside a national park

so this is bogus?

The question really isn't whether this is a real hunt offer (although the inquiry will determine that)...the real issue is that it is illegal to offer such a thing.

Gentlemen,

I have received a message from Zimbabwe which states that "Having Just had both the minister and the Parks Director general deny that
there are any management hunts going on" right now.

It might be a good idea to make sure this is legit before anyone commits himself.

I don't for a minute doubt that this so-called "hunt" is illegal under Zimbabwean law.

Two bona fide experts - people who know the game laws and are on the ground in Zim, and who have impeccable reputations - have posted to that effect on this thread, and that's enough for me.

We need this kind of debate so that we can further expose the way the Zim government has turned the rule of law into a sham and a fraud in that country.

The same corrupt government officials who countenance and profit from this kind of thing are assaulting and murdering innocent citizens all over the country.

I think the fact that this guy has not responded any more in the last 5 days say it all.

quote:

Originally posted by Pauly3511:
I think the fact that this guy has not responded any more in the last 5 days say it all.

He logged in on the 14th, but do not seem to have replied.

I, for one, am very interested in doing an elephant cull hunt, but under these conditions.

1. that I be assured by the Zimbabwe government that it is perfectly legal and that I will not be arrested, fined, or imprisoned for taking part in the cull.
2. that it is affordable (to me)
3. that it fits my schedule
4. that the particulars of this hunt be openly posted on this forum for others to view

I don't have room for elephant trophies but I would want to have my hunt video-taped and photographed.

Namibiahunter

At this time, the hunts that best fill those descriptions are tuskless or PAC. They are mini-culls of a sort.