We have just completed a movie, in conjunction with the Hunter Proud Foundation and John Jackson of Conservation Force, which tackles the issue of the ban on the importation of sport-hunted ivory from Zimbabwe and Tanzania.

At present there is no African conservation issue more talked about than that of elephant and ivory. But why is this? Have we lost direction in dealing with the reality of day-to-day wildlife management? Is the US Fish and Wildlife service ban on the importation of sport-hunted ivory really helping the situation in Africa?

Are rural African communities allowed any say in how the wildlife resource is utilized? Is eco-imperialism the real force behind the resolutions that are foisted upon Africa and her inhabitants?

This film examines these questions and offers practical solutions to deal with the issues.

Please click on the link to watch it http://vimeo.com/user17366897/...116473289/88ae4be861

Please send this link out to as many people as possible and ask them to do the same, we need to make this as viral as possible. This is important.

Thanks.

Great job Zig and I am spreading the word. Chaps like Ivan, Aaron and Buzz will have a bank of contacts that they can forward this to. As so will booking agents such as Mark and Greg.

Zig Macintosh,
Thank you for the excellent work, a very educational film.
I hope it gets to 'the powers that be' and they do something constructive with it.jc

Shared

Zig,

Great documentary as always and I've shared it on Facebook and will send it out in an email this week as well. Hopefully it gets into the right hands.

Greg

Zig- awesome video- congratulations! We certainly need more educational videos such as this put out there- may I link this to our website? Cheers Buzz

Very interesting video.

However, one simpel question strikes my mind; why do not the Zimbabwe authorities increase the number of licenses to kill elephant and reduce prices so that more hunters from outside the US can be willing to book and in that way keep the Income somewhat stable for the Campfire program ?

Parden me for asking and saying this, but it is a fact that elephant hunting is expensive and the majority of the elephant hunters are from the US. The US hunter seems to be able or at least more willing to pay high prices for DG hunts and especially elephant hunting.

The video states that 50.000 elephants would be sustainable to have in Zimbabwe. The latest survey and count in 2014 indicates 84.000 where Hwange area has had a substantial growth in numbers of elephants. How come the Zimbabwe authorities not increasing licenses considerably ?

The elephant situation reminds me very much on our own domestic conservation of the moose and caribou population in Norway that is hunted every atumn. When you find the population to be too high you increase the quotas and especially the numbers of cows if you want to reduce the herds.

I am not an expert in these matters, but would be interesting to receive some thoughts from fellow hunters.

I am sorry for being simple minded, but I must admit that I have been wondering about these questions for a while reading about the effect on Ivory ban from US, but also before that ban came into effect. This video makes my wonder even more.


Morten

Zig,

Well done and informative; exactly what I've come to expect from Hunter Proud and Osprey. I will pass it on to friends here in Korea.

What a superb educational piece. One can only hope that everyone at the USFWS is made to sit down in a chair and watch the video from beginning to end. We should all take the time to watch the video and listen to the facts and arguments being made on the video to arm ourselves with the information necessary to have informed conversations with anyone that naively believes that actions such as the importation ban will do anything but hurt the very species they are ostensibly trying to protect. Well done, my thanks to those that played a role in funding and preparing the video.

Just watched it - EXCELLENT!
Everyone who loves Africa and is concerned about out wildlife - elephants especially needs to watch this. Will help to get the word out there. With DSC about to start the timing is good. Well done you guys - who would expect anything less from Zimboe's!

Wow! Powerful video. Posted a link on Facebook. Thanks for sharing!

Well said Doctari! Watched the entire clip as well. As one very wise African conservationist said - preserve first the soil, then the vegetation, and lastly the animals that rely on the vegetation. Emotions have lead to the intense focus on elephants with a 60 yr life span. As a result, baobab trees that are thousands of years old are being destroyed, and top soil that requires 10 times the life span of a baobab to develop is being blown away. As hard as it may seem, facts need to outweigh emotions (or in the case of the USFWS - political motivation).

Superb. Compelling. If only those who "know better" could be made to see it.

quote:

Originally posted by doctari505:
Just watched it - EXCELLENT!
Everyone who loves Africa and is concerned about out wildlife - elephants especially needs to watch this. Will help to get the word out there. With DSC about to start the timing is good. Well done you guys - who would expect anything less from Zimboe's!

That was just fantastic. Well done I say!

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Buzz, I have sent the embedding code for the movie to you in an email. If that doesn't work then just use the link on this page. Appreciate it.

John, Mike, Marty, the movie has been sent to Dan Ash the director of USFWS, through John Jackson of Conservation Force, as well as all of the people there who are involved with making this decision. They are required to watch the movie as it is considered a "comment" which they had asked for from any concerned party before they finalized their decision. They are busy wading through all of the comments they have received right now and a decision is expected soon.

The reason we are trying to get everyone to pass the movie around is that it may help sway USFWS if they know that it is out there doing the rounds. Well that's what we are hoping for anyway. So please keep putting it up on Facebook etc.

Morten, the number of trophy elephant tags that any country receives is determined by CITES. There is also a difference between culling and trophy hunting. With culling a whole herd of elephant is taken out at one time in a short time. This is done to minimize stress amongst the rest of the elephant population. It is also a very specialized job and requires a lot of coordination between the culling team members. So trophy hunting could never be part of a culling program.

Zig, thanks for your comments.

I understand that culling elephants is something different than trophy hunting. However, my wondering can be separated into different issues;

- the decision made by US Fish and Wildlife
- the financing of Campfire programs
- Conservation of the elephant population - Cites decision
- Ivory trade and poaching
- culling or hunting ?

First, I have put the video on Facebook in general but also public in a closed group consisting of Hunters hunting worldwide. Every time I discuss elephant hunting with someone the discussion often develops in wrong direction because of lack of knowledge. This video is a great opportunity to study and tell about several aspects of the elephant in Africa listed by Cites.

The decision made by USFW is obviously wrong for Zimbabwe. The video is saying something about 108 Licenses sold out of a total of 180 licenses. The 80-100 licenses not sold because US Hunters do not book or cancel does not affect the elephant population at all. Especially since most of these licenses involve trophy bulls. You do not have to be a Wild Life specialist to understand that.
It is possible that the USFW decision regarding Tanzania might be more correct. USFW complains about the lack of correct data etc. The 2014 survey from Zimbabwe should be good enough to re-open Zimbabwe for trophy hunts and import of Ivory for the US Hunters. I do not know the situation in Tanzania, but I take it that making the same surveys etc by the Tanzania authorities should bring the discussion back on track.

Financing the Campfire programs were presented as one of the big negative effects from the ivory ban. At the same time the officer said that 80-100 licenses were not sold. In the business world; what do you do when your products are not sold and you want to reach your budget ? Normally you will put some reduced priced products in the market as the level of cost is already established. In that way you increase your income ( read financing of Campfire ) and reduce your losses. I am wondering why this has not been done by the Zimbabwean authorities !? Or has it been done, but the safari operators did not want to offer the cheaper hunts in the market ?

Next the video emphasized the lack of food for the big elephant herds both in Zimbabwe, but also in Botswana. The population of elephants in Botswana might also be a problem for Zimbabwe as hunting or culling in Botswana does not take place at all. I understand that the experts want to reduce the elephant population in Zimbabwe down to 50.000. A reduce of approx. 30-35.000 elephants which is an enormous number of animals.
Based on the food situation and numbers of elephants increasing in certain areas I cannot see avoiding a massive slaughter of elephants within the next decade. Then, how come the decisions made by Cites ? WTF is Cites thinking of ? Does Cites have other information regarding the elephant population than the public has or shown/told in the video ? Makes me wonder !
Cites deals with snow leopard, white tigers and striped tigers, certain birds etc ., but these population is way off the numbers of elephants. And the birth rate of the species mentioned is far off elephant birth rate. I hope someone sends this video to all Board members in Cites and ask for a reaction on the facts. The thing has nothing to do with US trophy hunters – it has to do with the total elephant situation in Africa and the great possibility that elephants will destroy more crops, woodlands and turn land into desert and then die of starvation. Is that the Cites idea ?

The video state that villagers will turn into poaching and illegal ivory trade unless they see that their minimum living cost and social needs are met in a way that Campfire program was supposed to finance. Experience tells us that this conclusion is correct. Then the USFW decision makes a recoil that they probably did not take into consideration. Another thing is that experience shows when legal trade of something, prices of the commodity will normally adjust and come down. Another Cites and international world decision, but what if Zimbabwe authorities was given the ability to trade ivory internationally from sports hunted non-trophy bulls and cows ? Is it better to control it or having an illegal smuggling business going on ?

Last; culling or hunting. I understand that reducing a population with 30-35.000 animals cannot be solved by hunting. Nevertheless I cannot see why Zimbabwean authorities should not increase licenses of cows ( ration elephants ) by let us say 500-1000 each year for the next 10 years to reduce population a bit, but first of all prevent the population to grow much faster and in addition see to that Campfire areas receive their funding. Hunting these numbers the villagers should also be able to handle the meat which is also a vital resource too them.

Well, some thoughts from up north. I consider the elephant situation not just as an US trophy-hunter problem. It is way more complicated than that, but considering the facts told by the video influencing on Campfire program which again leads to more illegal poaching and ivory trading the USFW should reconsider fast. The rest should be a mutual task for hunters, Zimbabwean authorities and Cites.

Morten

Zig

Brilliantly done.

Well done Zig my friend, another outstanding piece of work.

Zig

You did it again. We all owe you.
Thank you


Good Hunting
CF

Well done gentlemen.

Thanks Morten for spreading the movie around and for your keen interest in the subject.

I will try and answer your questions the best that I can, I don’t claim to be an expert.

The USFWS ban did not just hurt the CAMPFIRE safari operators; it hurt all of the operators who offer elephant in Zimbabwe. The decision came when the season had already started and the show season was over so suddenly everyone had to scramble around to try and sell their elephant. Prices were reduced to try and sell to the European and Russian markets but obviously they couldn’t sell all of them.

With regards to Tanzania they will only be able to assess the situation once they have an accurate count of the population but as Rowan Martin says, you shouldn’t interrupt the flow of money to the people who are charged with looking after the wildlife. Tanzania should have been consulted beforehand.

CITES has unfortunately been hijacked by the animal rights movement and is becoming more and more ineffective. They have all of the information needed to make the correct decisions. African countries, in my opinion, should pull out and go their own way.

Most of the culling would have to take place in National parks so the cow quota that you suggest would have to be hunted in the parks, which would be technically illegal. But the point really is that a lot of elephant will have to be culled in a short period of time in order for it to be effective.

If any safari operator (or anyone at all) is interested in embedding the video in their website this is the code that is needed, so you can copy and paste.

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/116473289" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thanks Zig,

Yes I am interested in the subject as I see many mistakes or misjudgements from several parties. It involves not just US trophy hunters, but also all hunters world wide and the future of elephant hunting as a possible sport hunting product available in future.

The more I hear about the decision making in USFW there more I wonder about their way of thinking. The question now is whether the ban regarding Zim sportshunted ivory is continuing or USFW trust the survey and counting done by Zim authorities.

Regarding Tanzania I was told in November last year that Tanzania safari operators was allowed to extend the hunting season offering many DG licenses for sale in January - March 2015. I have not seen any of these licenses in public - at least not here on AR. So what is really happening in Tanzania ?

Pull out of Cites might be a solution, but hopefully the elephant countries should make a mutual front and try to reason with Cites before they eventually pull out. If Cites develops in the wrong direction from the purpose the organization was planned to have, it is a pitty and the international community has failed.

With regard to culling or hunting; would it be possible to hunt in the national parks if Zim authorities change the law ? Let us say for a period of the year allowing sportshunting for just elephants ? It is the way it is done here in Norway hunting caribou and moose and it works well ! I am asking since it is obvoius that something must be done to the population of elephants. If the cost is too high for Zim authorities - organize with safari operators and offer the hunts cheaper to international Hunters. Not trophy hunts but normal kind of meat hunts - just cows and youngsters on the quota.

Morten

Morten,

You are right about the USFWS generally not trusting information that they don't want to hear. Unfortunately for them the elephant count which was just completed in Zimbabwe was overseen by the well-respected Kevin Durham under the auspices of the Great Elephant Census and which is funded by Paul Allen of Microsoft.

So I presume they will accept these results although some people are already twisting the facts and saying that Zimbabwe should have 30 000 more elephant since the last count given their normal growth rate.

I am afraid I don't know much about what is happening in Tanzania perhaps Bwanamitch or one of the other Tanzania AR members would know.

As I said before culling is a very specialized operation, it would turn into a goat-roping if they tried to turn it into sport. It would do Zimbabwe and the hunting industry's image a lot of harm if they did try it.

The truth of the matter is that there will be no culling at all and the environment will be trashed and all of the antis will wring their hands and say "How did this happen?"

What amazes me here on AR is the lack of interest in this subject. Why aren't the big guns on here talking about this, endorsing this movie and trying to make it go viral? It is in everyone's interest. We get 600 views on this subject and 1700 views on whether an operator has paid back a deposit. Incredible.

HI Zig,
Super job. I'm trying to download it using the download option on the site but when I select one of the options, i get a message form Vimeo that the page is not found and there is no video there!

quote:

Originally posted by Zig Mackintosh:


What amazes me here on AR is the lack of interest in this subject. Why aren't the big guns on here talking about this, endorsing this movie and trying to make it go viral? It is in everyone's interest. We get 600 views on this subject and 1700 views on whether an operator has paid back a deposit. Incredible.

Me too:

Some of us do care; I have arranged for the link to be shown on Nordic Safari Clubs web page

Good Hunting

Carl Frederik

I can't afford to hunt elephant, but I'll pay to keep them alive.

quote:

What amazes me here on AR is the lack of interest in this subject. Why aren't the big guns on here talking about this, endorsing this movie and trying to make it go viral? It is in everyone's interest. We get 600 views on this subject and 1700 views on whether an operator has paid back a deposit. Incredible.

Zig Mackintosh.

To be fair Zig I would have thought that most would be busy with the shows at this time. However lets bounce around some ideas and keep this thread alive.

Maybe the shows take all the time, but hopefully the shows make people meet and talk about it.

Something has to be done - that is for sure. Both on a short term and on a long term. Maybe we could agree on this;

Short term:
- Get the Zim ban cancelled making the Campfire program start up again.
- Increase licenses on ration elephants with 20% and invite international hunters to book through safari operators. ( sports hunting elephant should bee looked at something more than just chasing tropht bulls and a few tuskless )


Long term:
- Start pushing Cites with facts.
- Invite some wealthy organizations or person(s) to fund surveys and reports about elephant populations in African countries.
- Initiate Zim authorities to join safari operators to organize cull hunts - invite Richard Harland and such to coach and advise the teams.

Morten

Morten,

Cull hunts will not happen. The subject is too sensitive.

I'm still shocked by all the barren ground in the video. That can't sustain any livestock or wildlife.

great video solid info well done !

Thank you so much for your effort its greatly appreciated.
Hope its ok for me to add the link to my face book page.
Hopefully it does not fall on too many deaf ears.

Zig- Thanks for the link which I will certainly attach to our website and face book as soon as I get back to Harare! Cheers Buzz

Hi Zig
Great Video, have tried sharing but facebook has blocked me doing it saying attachment unavailable.I will try and cut and past this link.

Now we need a documentary on why we need open trade on the Rhinos ?

best regards and keep up the good work.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Morten,

Cull hunts will not happen. The subject is too sensitive.

Andrew,

you are probably correct about that. But what about the follwing scenario,

- number of elephants increase further in Zimbabawe ?
- number of elephants increase further in Botswana ?
- elephants find out that to eat they have to move from one area to another where they find food ?
- elephants from Botswana travel across the border into Zimbabwe ?
- elephants starts crop raiding in a much larger scale than they do now ?
- elephants feels threatened when raiding crops etc leading to killihg more people than they do now ?

and the list goes on.

It is for sure much more complicated, and I do not understand all of it and am not an expert in elephant conservation, but what to do ?


Morten

Mich,

I am having problems with Vimeo on the download and embed issue, which I am trying to sort out. They are not very responsive.

Carl,

Appreciate you putting the movie up on the Nordic Safari Club page, did that work out okay?

Andrew,

I understand the guys are busy at the shows but it is there that they should be talking about the issue.

Morten,

Thanks for your ideas; the best place would be to start with your own CITES delegation.

Ozhunter,

Please do share the movie on your FB page, thanks!

Dave,

We actually have just finished a movie on the trade in rhino horn, which we made for Ian Player, one of his last projects before he died. We have had a premiere in Maritzburg and Cape Town and have one planned for Joburg and Durban. There are also plans to get it onto TV. This movie was made to present to the South African rhino horn trade panel of experts and will then be distributed to CITES delegations. Without legalized trade in rhino horn, the animal is doomed.

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Morten,

Cull hunts will not happen. The subject is too sensitive.

Andrew,

you are probably correct about that. But what about the follwing scenario,

- number of elephants increase further in Zimbabawe ?
- number of elephants increase further in Botswana ?
- elephants find out that to eat they have to move from one area to another where they find food ?
- elephants from Botswana travel across the border into Zimbabwe ?
- elephants starts crop raiding in a much larger scale than they do now ?
- elephants feels threatened when raiding crops etc leading to killihg more people than they do now ?

and the list goes on.

It is for sure much more complicated, and I do not understand all of it and am not an expert in elephant conservation, but what to do ?


Morten

Morten,

I am not saying culling is not the answer but rather the sale of. There is no way that Joe Public will accept culling of Elephant as a commercial sport.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by The Norwegian:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Morten,

Cull hunts will not happen. The subject is too sensitive.

Andrew,

you are probably correct about that. But what about the follwing scenario,

- number of elephants increase further in Zimbabawe ?
- number of elephants increase further in Botswana ?
- elephants find out that to eat they have to move from one area to another where they find food ?
- elephants from Botswana travel across the border into Zimbabwe ?
- elephants starts crop raiding in a much larger scale than they do now ?
- elephants feels threatened when raiding crops etc leading to killihg more people than they do now ?

and the list goes on.

It is for sure much more complicated, and I do not understand all of it and am not an expert in elephant conservation, but what to do ?


Morten

Morten,

I am not saying culling is not the answer but rather the sale of. There is no way that Joe Public will accept culling of Elephant as a commercial sport.

Cheers

Well,

culling 30-35.000 elephants will never be sports I guess, but 500-1.000 can be.

I have located the Cites organization in Norway and will start from there as Zig pointed out.

By the way - have sent you a PM !


Morten

Zig, we have just launched a new version of the African Fisherman - as a free online magazine - and our third issue is out. I had an article on fish anti-poaching which has been making a huge difference on Lake Kariba, with the added spin-off of land based operations which have brought several elephant poachers to book as well. Before launching yesterday, I re-worked the article to place your video in it. I feel this is a great way to get to people who are not mainstream hunting, but who will benefit from the knowledge imparted in your film. Check it out here www.africanfishermanonline.com.

I have also embedded the video in our two African Hunter Face Book pages and will circulate these heavily in the coming weeks.

We will be doing our bit to help make it go viral... as you say. I know this will help spread it as between our website and social media we have quite a significant reach. Thanks for putting it all together.

We'll also put it on our site at www.shakariconnection.com but unfortunately we recently started the massive job of rebuilding the site to make it smartphone friendly etc and can only add it to the new version so it can't be done immediately.