https://www.fws.gov/internatio...-hunted-trophies.pdf


I was unable to copy the memo to post (see link).

Does this mean what I think it means?

Holy crap.

This is interesting...

Some please explain?

Means, if you have a trophy stuck in limbo, you had better get it now.

Is this to little to late for the operators in Tanzania?

quote:

Means, if you have a trophy stuck in limbo, you had better get it now.

That maybe the case.

I think this is a result of their loss in this case, which found they effectively changed regulations without public comment in violation of the Administrative Procedures Act:

http://wildlife.org/battle-ove...-takes-another-turn/

quote:

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has lost a legal battle over its April 2014 decision to ban the import of elephant trophies from Zimbabwe.

The USFWS’ original decision to ban the import of trophies harvested on or after April 4, 2014 was published in the Federal Register in spring 2014 and reissued in spring 2015. Safari Club International and the National Rifle Association sued over the decision, and in late December 2017 the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit ruled in their favor. The court found that the notices effectively amounted to an administrative rule, and as a result the Service should have allowed for a public comment period to take place as required under the Administrative Procedures Act.

The way I read this...This might be a very good thing now they say the will look at each case that opens the door for countries that was closed no where does it say its A ban. They will look at each case and it seems like if the area have its management plans in place and enhancement can be shown that they will allow imports....

However we Africans are getting sick and tired of USFW AND THERE entire BIG BROTHER approach to anything African.

This might be a good thing... or the end who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
Means, if you have a trophy stuck in limbo, you had better get it now.

You can only get them if they (USFWS) issue permits. I have 2 sets waiting for permits...still no word.

I am not sure it means anything of significance...yet.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
The way I read this...This might be a very good thing now they say the will look at each case that opens the door for countries that was closed no where does it say its A ban. They will look at each case and it seems like if the area have its management plans in place and enhancement can be shown that they will allow imports....

However we Africans are getting sick and tired of USFW AND THERE entire BIG BROTHER approach to anything African.

This might be a good thing... or the end who knows.

You guys are not the only ones. The USFWS has screwed over a lot of countries on other continents. The ridiculous ban on polar bears from Canada is a prime example and there are many others.

Time the US just follow what is decided by CITES. The USFWS's approach, that they know what is best for everyone, really brings into question the validity of CITIES and is a slap in the face to every other country that belongs to CITES.

We hose ourselves by not allowing polar bear hunting in Alaska and for that matter species like walrus

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
The way I read this...This might be a very good thing now they say the will look at each case that opens the door for countries that was closed no where does it say its A ban. They will look at each case and it seems like if the area have its management plans in place and enhancement can be shown that they will allow imports....

However we Africans are getting sick and tired of USFW AND THERE entire BIG BROTHER approach to anything African.

This might be a good thing... or the end who knows.

You guys are not the only ones. The USFWS has screwed over a lot of countries on other continents. The ridiculous ban on polar bears from Canada is a prime example and there are many others.

Time the US just follow what is decided by CITES. The USFWS's approach, that they know what is best for everyone, really brings into question the validity of CITIES and is a slap in the face to every other country that belongs to CITES.

CITES are next to bloody useless & USF&WS are worse than bloody useless & when they disagree they're 100 times worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
The way I read this...This might be a very good thing now they say the will look at each case that opens the door for countries that was closed no where does it say its A ban. They will look at each case and it seems like if the area have its management plans in place and enhancement can be shown that they will allow imports....

However we Africans are getting sick and tired of USFW AND THERE entire BIG BROTHER approach to anything African.

This might be a good thing... or the end who knows.

You guys are not the only ones. The USFWS has screwed over a lot of countries on other continents. The ridiculous ban on polar bears from Canada is a prime example and there are many others.

Time the US just follow what is decided by CITES. The USFWS's approach, that they know what is best for everyone, really brings into question the validity of CITIES and is a slap in the face to every other country that belongs to CITES.

That will take repeal or amendment of the ESA...which I am all for...but not likely.

The way I understand this I see it as a bit better than it was before. As some have pointed out, they will look at individual applications. I'm hoping this means that lion and elephant taken in places where you can tick off all required boxes will be allowed. So rather than looking at an entire country they will look more at the area where the animal was harvested.

So in places that have proper wildlife management plans, scientific wildlife monitoring, successful anti-poaching and good community support should have an advantage.

Some hunting areas are better protected than other and harvest more sustainably and IMO they should be rewarded for this. This will also be an incentive for everyone to step up their efforts.

I may be wrong but this is how I understand it.

Thor,
I believe you read ‘the words’ correctly. That said: “Talk (words) is cheap...it takes money (actions) to buy whisky.”

I have been researching, investigating, and dealing with the USFWS for almost a decade now and while I share the sentiment that this at least leaves the door of hope open...I will believe it when I start getting pics from WhatsApp of officially granted permits...and my own.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Thor,
I believe you read ‘the words’ correctly. That said: “Talk (words) is cheap...it takes money (actions) to buy whisky.”

I have been researching, investigating, and dealing with the USFWS for almost a decade now and while I share the sentiment that this at least leaves the door of hope open...I will believe it when I start getting pics from WhatsApp of officially granted permits...and my own.

When you do get your permit then just keep it to yourself mate.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Thor,
I believe you read ‘the words’ correctly. That said: “Talk (words) is cheap...it takes money (actions) to buy whisky.”

I have been researching, investigating, and dealing with the USFWS for almost a decade now and while I share the sentiment that this at least leaves the door of hope open...I will believe it when I start getting pics from WhatsApp of officially granted permits...and my own.

When you do get your permit then just keep it to yourself mate.

Andrew,
Please explain the gist of that post...I don’t copy.

May be he means the USFW will do whatever they wish, as usual, no matter what the announcement says.

USFW is run like the proverbial BANANA REPUBLIC!

One hardly ever hears any good news coming from them!

USFW has done us more damage than any politician ever can, If it pays it stays you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out. And with all the challenges we deal with at the moment all over Africa the last thing we need is more import bans out of the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
May be he means the USFW will do whatever they wish, as usual, no matter what the announcement says.

USFW is run like the proverbial BANANA REPUBLIC!

One hardly ever hears any good news coming from them!

100% correct and ‘that’ was the gist of my post above and hence the reason I don’t follow his.

What Saeed said +1.

Now that Obama is gone, the USFWS should be reformed or shut down before they do more damage.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
USFW has done us more damage than any politician ever can, If it pays it stays you don't have to be a brain surgeon to work that out. And with all the challenges we deal with at the moment all over Africa the last thing we need is more import bans out of the USA.

Sir,
You are 100% correct as well. The USFWS has been attaining an antihunting philosophy for decades...but...it went on hyperdrive during the 0bama years.

And, unless the Conservatives of the USA get a handle on their government...it’s (USFWS) going to become worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
The way I read this...This might be a very good thing now they say the will look at each case that opens the door for countries that was closed no where does it say its A ban. They will look at each case and it seems like if the area have its management plans in place and enhancement can be shown that they will allow imports....

However we Africans are getting sick and tired of USFW AND THERE entire BIG BROTHER approach to anything African.

This might be a good thing... or the end who knows.

You guys are not the only ones. The USFWS has screwed over a lot of countries on other continents. The ridiculous ban on polar bears from Canada is a prime example and there are many others.

Time the US just follow what is decided by CITES. The USFWS's approach, that they know what is best for everyone, really brings into question the validity of CITIES and is a slap in the face to every other country that belongs to CITES.

In CITES the importing countries can impose regulations/restrictions greater then the exporting country, that's written into the treaty.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Thor,
I believe you read ‘the words’ correctly. That said: “Talk (words) is cheap...it takes money (actions) to buy whisky.”

I have been researching, investigating, and dealing with the USFWS for almost a decade now and while I share the sentiment that this at least leaves the door of hope open...I will believe it when I start getting pics from WhatsApp of officially granted permits...and my own.

When you do get your permit then just keep it to yourself mate.

Andrew,
Please explain the gist of that post...I don’t copy.

I took this to mean that Andrew was referencing the SCI debacle with lions and elephants. If they'd have just 'kept it to themselves', we'd probably be in a different situation today. Just get your permit, keep your mouth shut and get your stuff home. No need to put comments or pictures where anti's might find them and use against us.

This is analogous to something a game warden buddy of mine told me recently. He said that over 90% of all the cases they make are a result of someone either posting a picture or comments on social media or telling someone about what they did, i.e. Bragging. He said that if most poachers just did their thing and kept quiet about it, they'd seldom get caught. At least in California, there are so few game wardens around the state that unless one is simply unlucky enough to bump into a warden in the field, they'd never get caught if they kept their mouth shut.

Get your permits, get your stuff home and be quiet about it thereafter.

http://huntingreport.redpointr...nhancement-findings/
According to this article they thought the USFWS would withdraw the 2014-2015 findings and rely on the earlier findings to keep the permit process going inch by inch. But now they withdrew everything.

Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

Did I mention that we might as well have PETA running USFW?

They have been anti hunters before, now they have solid support from Trump, nothing will stop them!

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

I agree, this is a very disturbing development.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

+1

Welcome to the administrative state.

The anti hunting side is much smarter in its strategy. It is playing entrenched administrative agencies, administrative law, legal proceedings and public opinion/social media versus scientific evidence.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

Hi Karl,

Does not your legal system defend the rights of individuals to be protected from public scrutiny and possible violent abuse from activists/terrorists?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

Hi Karl,

Does not your legal system defend the rights of individuals to be protected from public scrutiny and possible violent abuse from activists/terrorists?

No sir, as soon as you apply for a permit from USFWS your information is available by filing a Freedom Of Information Act request (https://www.fws.gov/irm/bpim/foia.html#request) I've done it just to see if my name was in their database, it was, and the records revealed my name, my home address as well as an email address.
Try the FOI request sometime if you've imported any trophy requiring a permit, you might be surprised.

Stupid question...does this impact leopards?

As many of you may remember I posted a thread based on information given to me by person/persons very close to the Trump family. Before I stated that there was no chance of the import ban being addressed by the Trumps again until 2021 after the SCI botched attempt at repeal.

I didn't jump in on this post until I had some information from my sources and this is VERY bad. ANYONE hunting any of the species listed in this USFWS PR release should make 100% certain that you have these approved permits in your possession prior to sending any deposits or making plans that will lock in a hunt for these animals. This now includes ALL elephant from ALL locations including Namibia. My source claims this is 100% in support of a continued permanent ban and that you will in essence need to submit an environmental impact statement specific to the area you intend to hunt. ALL applications will be public and ALL details concerning the applicants personal information will be made public and will be available for discussion on the USFWS forum. Bottom line no permits.

I pleaded for the persons I know close to DT to do something today and have not received a single text or e-mail in response since the first response warning that it was over.

We have not only lost the battle we just lost the war. Leopards and Giraffe (WHY) are next according to my sources.

I see the link for sport hunted leopard import permits is gone...anyone know when that will be back up? None of the species specific links seem to be working. Anyone have a link to the form?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:
Read it closely...voids findings dated back to 1995, includes Zambia, Namibia and SA, too. It appears each permit application must prove an "enhancement" and will be subject to the public comment period, which will reveal the hunter to the public. Not good.

Hi Karl,

Does not your legal system defend the rights of individuals to be protected from public scrutiny and possible violent abuse from activists/terrorists?

Certain of us went to insane lengths to keep our information private.

And this is the new hunter-friendly Administration that was going to save African hunting . . . looks more like they are intent on putting the nail in the coffin of African hunting. Pitiful. Hunters lose, outfitters lose, the communities lose . . . and the biggest losers are the species the legislation is intended to protect.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
And this is the new hunter-friendly Administration that was going to save African hunting . . . looks more like they are intent on putting the nail in the coffin of African hunting. Pitiful. Hunters lose, outfitters lose, the communities lose . . . and the biggest losers are the species the legislation is intended to protect.

We’ve fallen through the looking glass...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I see the link for sport hunted leopard import permits is gone...anyone know when that will be back up? None of the species specific links seem to be working. Anyone have a link to the form?

Here's the leopard link.

Leopard Import application