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Originally posted by fairgame:

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Originally posted by Bob Keeler:
Hunters should demand to see where our dollars are truly being spent both locally and abroad which should should in all cases represent conservation thru hunting dollars then there would be no room for question.

Been there done that and now?

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Originally posted by Scott Powell:
So I'll step out on the ledge here...

Why does the import ban have to impact the conservation of Elephants or Lions or any other species?

No one is saying we cannot hunt them, just can't import the trophies. Considering all the hassles and costs of shipping / importing anything you would not think trophy import would be that important. After all, its about the hunt, not the trophy right?

I for one have been communicating Buzz and several others about hunting Elephant in 2019 and no plans to import anything. I'll have replicas made of the tusks - I just want to hunt Elephant and contribute to the survival of the species and our African Outfitter friends.

Granted I would prefer the ban lifted and I am not happy with the President's comments either, but like others have said - I do not know the entire story.

He did leave the door open and things can change...

One thing I cannot tolerate is the disparaging name calling. Donald Trump IS the current President of the United States. I served under Presidents Carter, Reagan and Clinton - each of them was my Commander in Chief and I saluted and showed respect for each, regardless of whether I agreed with their policies or not.

Should we as hunters, conservationists (and mostly conservatives) take the high road, continue to spend our hunting dollars and support what we believe to be right or do we mutate into sniveling liberal whiners like the scum in Hollywood?

While I doubt there is anyone in the administration monitoring the AR forums, what image do we project calling our President demeaning and disparaging names?

I for one am going to give Zinke and his team time. In the grand scheme of world problems (you know - North Korea, etc..) the import ban certainly is not a top 10 priority item I am sure...

OK.., I am prepared to get hammered.....

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but I will never regret not voting for HRC!

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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but I will never regret not voting for HRC!

Neither will I, but that does not mean that I will not regret that American politics have decayed to such a point that better candidates cannot be presented to the voting public.

I am praying that Trump is everything people hope him to be, butv it will not shock me if he isn't.

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"At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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"At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein.

I am continually amazed that Heinlien and his contemporaries had a better grasp on Today's World than those of us living in it do.

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2. Trump could reverse this decision and save face by simply stating that CITES allows elephants to be harvested in certain parts of Africa. While many find this objectionable, we cannot control this activity outside of the United States: indeed, we cannot even stop US hunters from continuing to hunt elephants. But if we stop the importation of legally hunted elephants, the revenue generated from hunting will drop, which is not in the best interests of elephants. He also state that while there is corruption, there is no doubt that when local people benefit financially from hunting, they have a vested interest in protection of the species.

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

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2. Trump could reverse this decision and save face by simply stating that CITES allows elephants to be harvested in certain parts of Africa. While many find this objectionable, we cannot control this activity outside of the United States: indeed, we cannot even stop US hunters from continuing to hunt elephants. But if we stop the importation of legally hunted elephants, the revenue generated from hunting will drop, which is not in the best interests of elephants. He also state that while there is corruption, there is no doubt that when local people benefit financially from hunting, they have a vested interest in protection of the species.

Plus One on the above.

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But we can, in that CITES specifically allows for that. In CITES the importing countries can impose regulations/restrictions greater then the exporting country.

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Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I have been thinking about this thread for a few days now, but not commenting. Here are some things that I thought about:

1. Someone should file suit with the claim that Trump is taking away our constitutional rights: the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are doing nothing that is illegal - he is simply prohibiting something he finds morally objectionable. Well, why stop at elephants?

2. Trump could reverse this decision and save face by simply stating that CITES allows elephants to be harvested in certain parts of Africa. While many find this objectionable, we cannot control this activity outside of the United States: indeed, we cannot even stop US hunters from continuing to hunt elephants. But if we stop the importation of legally hunted elephants, the revenue generated from hunting will drop, which is not in the best interests of elephants. He could also state that while there is corruption, there is no doubt that when local people benefit financially from hunting, they have a vested interest in protection of the species.

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Do you all not realize that an announcement from a hunting organization is what caused this to begin with?

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Originally posted by larryshores:
Do you all not realize that an announcement from a hunting organization is what caused this to begin with?

The lack of a response does not mean that this is not being worked on.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
Then Twitter Brains could not keep his bloody mouth shut.

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Originally posted by ledvm:
The politics on hunting of African iconic species is tough...I am disappointed. The fight is not over.

100% of (D)’s and ~50% of (R)’s favor a ban on import. My job is to work on that 50% of (R)’s...(D)’s are history.

But...with the possible exception of Cruz...he was/is African Hunting’s best bet.

GWB wanted to suspend leopard trophy import because Laura likes them...and damn near did.

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Originally posted by Saeed:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
The politics on hunting of African iconic species is tough...I am disappointed. The fight is not over.

100% of (D)’s and ~50% of (R)’s favor a ban on import. My job is to work on that 50% of (R)’s...(D)’s are history.

But...with the possible exception of Cruz...he was/is African Hunting’s best bet.

GWB wanted to suspend leopard trophy import because Laura likes them...and damn near did.

At least GWB did not do it.

The Blonde Barbie and her hunting hating husbands persuaded her idiotic father to agree to what they want!!

I understand he does not get on well with his brothers in law!

May be he is just following in his own father’s footsteps!

A bloody criminal to the core!

I have no idea some here are trying their best to make excuses for this??

He could have remained neutral, by saying the ban was lifted because CITES allows the exporting countries to sell these animals to fight poaching and maintain land for the animals to flourish!

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
To the best of my memory, some folks commenting on this thread, seemed to believe BEFORE the election that Trump was going to be the "Greatest Thing For The Future Of Hunting" in recent memory!!!!

Lane if I remember correctly you were quite adamant concerning Trump's support for hunting because of his sons!

Something seems to have changed.

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Originally posted by JBrown:

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Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
To the best of my memory, some folks commenting on this thread, seemed to believe BEFORE the election that Trump was going to be the "Greatest Thing For The Future Of Hunting" in recent memory!!!!

Lane if I remember correctly you were quite adamant concerning Trump's support for hunting because of his sons!

Something seems to have changed.

As I posted before(2015) I was worried that Trump was not a true "friend of hunting". What I can't really believe is that his supporters are trying to cloud the issue with several different red-herrings while completely ignoring the fact that Trump didn't simply reverse a decision, he effectively dropped and atomic bomb on it. Now, no one will be able to reverse the decision. If they try the antis will scream, "Even Donald Trump admitted that the killing of elephants is a 'horror show' that does nothing for conservation."

His supporters need to pull their heads out of "the sand". This asshole when to the most anti-hunting/anti-America/anti-gun media figure and spewed his baseless and ignorant opinions for his own political gain.

He sold us down the river and if you still support him you are ignoring the facts.

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

We are talking about not bringing your trophies home and hunting will not stop in Africa and nor will you be denied that privilege.

Note a majority of our Lions have been sold to American sportsmen who simply want to the opportunity to hunt wild Africa.

Lets adapt and move on. Bugger the politics.

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

We are talking about not bringing your trophies home and hunting will not stop in Africa and nor will you be denied that privilege.

Note a majority of our Lions have been sold to American sportsmen who simply want to the opportunity to hunt wild Africa.

Lets adapt and move on. Bugger the politics.

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hunting will not stop in Africa and nor will you be denied that privilege.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

We are talking about not bringing your trophies home and hunting will not stop in Africa and nor will you be denied that privilege.

Note a majority of our Lions have been sold to American sportsmen who simply want to the opportunity to hunt wild Africa.

Lets adapt and move on. Bugger the politics.

I am afraid it could go deeper (for Americans) Andrew if we don’t get a handle on it soon. There is talk of using the Lacy Act to prosecute Americans for hunting “endangered species”...regardless of import...just the act of doing so. Read the Lacey Act sometime.

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Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
The inexcusable part is that Trump used the language of antis ("horror show") to condemn a legal form of hunting.

Even if Kasich (my favored candidate) would have allowed the ban to remain, he wouldn't have used the term "horror show."

Only an anti speaks like that.

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Originally posted by ledvm:
If you want USF&W to quit meddling with the status of Africa Hunting and Wildlife in general...vote Don Trump for POTUS.

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Originally posted by fairgame:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by fairgame:
Chaps,

We are talking about not bringing your trophies home and hunting will not stop in Africa and nor will you be denied that privilege.

Note a majority of our Lions have been sold to American sportsmen who simply want to the opportunity to hunt wild Africa.

Lets adapt and move on. Bugger the politics.

I am afraid it could go deeper (for Americans) Andrew if we don’t get a handle on it soon. There is talk of using the Lacy Act to prosecute Americans for hunting “endangered species”...regardless of import...just the act of doing so. Read the Lacey Act sometime.

Lane,

I hunt a number of people who remain invisible. Currently we abide by the rules and regulations of CITIES and IUCN. The current 'endangered' classification has been adopted by anti hunters and bears little resemblance to what is happening in Africa.

Namibia banned the hunting ban and I suspect other African countries will consider a similar stance.

My argument is no one can ban hunting in Africa but Africans. Times are a changing and we are now witnessing a stronger voice from the communities whose lands are set aside for the sport. It is their want and International Governments would do well to listen to these landlords.

A good example is the current trend in Zambia to reclaim and rejuvenate wild Africa. To reverse the trend of encroachment and natural resource abuse. These communities realise the value of their lands and are prepared to protect them under a business format. I doubt anyone will want to take that away from them?