I have noticed while watching older videos on safaris and reading classic safari books that there are no shooting sticks mentioned or seen.

Even in Capsticks videos which are from the late 80s to early 90s there are no sticks to be seen.

So I'm guessing the shooting sticks are something that have come about in the last 15-20 years?

I'm with you on this one Geoff, having been away from shooting/hunting for a decade or so as the family appeared & grew up (a bit) I've now noticed how just about every video & magazine article seems to feature these things. They would appear to be the new must have. I've never used them so shouldn't really comment but in other than ideal conditions I imagine they would be a pest. I'm keen to hear comment from those who have used them though.
Steve.

I certainly remember them being used as far back as 1980 but I reckon they go back a fair bit more than that.

there is no reason to make an off-hand shot, when the sticks give you such a steady rest. the only two reasons not to use them are if a better natural rest is available or if the situation is evolving so fast you don't have time. trophy fees are too high to risk wounding an animal( as well as having him suffer) by taking a marginal off-hand shot.

Nope, as shakari says at lreast very prominent back into the 80s. And, as for the comment about them being a pest-- that would be incorrect. True, they can't be used under all shooting circumstances but, when the opportunity arises, they provide that extra bit of steady shooting. Same thing with using a back pack, a bench rest, a sand bag, they are just another tool in accuracy.

The only new ones are the ones you buy at Cabela's

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
The only new ones are the ones you buy at Cabela's

Long-Grass sells shooting sticks. They are of the utmost quality, and not overpriced.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
there is no reason to make an off-hand shot, when the sticks give you such a steady rest. the only two reasons not to use them are if a better natural rest is available or if the situation is evolving so fast you don't have time. trophy fees are too high to risk wounding an animal( as well as having him suffer) by taking a marginal off-hand shot.

Good post .....and the best sticks can be achieved in Africa.....all you need is a three foot length of 3/8" OD surgical tubing and a couple bamboo sticks about 6' long. Let one of the trackers carry the sticks and call for them if needed.

Two sticks are much better than three BTW.....practice shooting over sticks a lot before you go!

Shooting sticks are a wonderful aid to shooting, but only if you have someone else to carry them.

Otherwise they are a giant nuisance.

I have seen old illustrations of Amercan Buffalo hunters in the late 1800's using them with Sharps rifles. So they were definitely used here in US long ago.

They shure look like a nice way to F-up and nice wood stock on a high priced rifle!

quote:

Two sticks are much better than three BTW.....practice shooting over sticks a lot before you go!

Please elaborate. Why is a bipod better than a tripod? Faster to deploy?

It certainly can't be more stable.

Shooting sticks are new to Americans, mostly.
Like any other shooting technique (read the various field positions) you have to figure out how it is when YOU do it. Just treat it like a portable "tree" -- how you'd use a bush, anthill, pack, whatever to get the steadiest rest available.

In "the olden days", flinging lead may have been acceptable. When paying the fees for wounded animals same as collected trophies, it makes sense to be sure as possible.

Of course if you are truly already a dead-eye offhand, why bother? It helped me with longer shots for sure, but NOT before I had to go through finding out how to use the durn things.

2 cents (and yes they can mark your stock!!!)

BNagel

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:
They shure look like a nice way to F-up and nice wood stock on a high priced rifle!

so are various natural rests( tree trunks, limbs, rocks, etc.) if anyone is stupid enough to lay the stock directly on said rest. best way to use shooting sticks is to lay the forend of the rifle in your palm, gripping the rifle, then rest the back of your hand in the V of the sticks- more accurate shooting than just resting the rifle directly in the V.

I'm not passing judgment on them an think they can be a great aid but I just found it interesting that you never read about them in the classics so I figured they were a more modern thing.

I wonder where they started?

What happened to putting the time in to learn how to shoot. Taking a rest for a +300yrd shoot is one thing but using a rest for a 50 yard shot on buff is another. Using a rest for most of your shooting, will get you into a world of shit.
There may come a time when you don't have time to use one, such as during a charge or in self defense. If all you have done is shoot off the bench or off sticks you won't have the skills needed to prevail!

JD

If my memory is correct, one of my J.A. Hunter books has him argueing with a client. The client maintained that the sticks weren't "sporting", and Hunter pointing out that he (the client)couldn't hit a damn thing without them.I think that there was once a stigma to using sticks similar to shooting birds on the ground with a shotgun. Who wants to be the first to admit to doing that? Ethics change with the times and fashion. Who hasn't heard the term "shoot off your hind legs like a man"? Many of my father's generation thought (or claimed they thought)shooting a standing deer wasn't sporting. Their normal hunting method was short deer drives. Contrast that to people who claim they won't shoot anything unless it is 5 yards away, laser ranged, using a bipod and asleep.When you hunt with them and they miss by 10 feet it's the first miss of their life.
My guess is that sticks got used a lot, but nobody would admit it in print or story. Frankly I don't think hunters are any more truthful than fishermen.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
there is no reason to make an off-hand shot, when the sticks give you such a steady rest. the only two reasons not to use them are if a better natural rest is available or if the situation is evolving so fast you don't have time. trophy fees are too high to risk wounding an animal( as well as having him suffer) by taking a marginal off-hand shot.

Precisely!

I will use ANY rest that is available to me. In rare occasions, when there isn't one, or time does not allow, I will take an off-hand shot if I think I can hit whatever I am shooting at.

Last year, we followed some buffalo bulls, and when we found them, I took a quick shot off the sticks at one - it was so quick our camera man just managed to take a video of the animals at the shot!

I then shot two more, in the heads, as nothing could be seen in the long grass, off hand.

I was asked later why do I use shooting sticks if I shot so well without them.

I said I get lucky sometimes, and I wanted to keep my lucky shot for when I need them, like in this case.

We were so knackered and hungry, we marked the bulls with our GPS, and called a truck from the camp to go pick them up.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Shooting sticks are a wonderful aid to shooting, but only if you have someone else to carry them.

Otherwise they are a giant nuisance.

I guess this is where I was coming from, not being used to having someone to carry my kit for me (Oh how I wish ) I can certainly see the value of having a decent rest where nature hasn't provided one, but can also see any number of situations where the terrain is unsuitable & the dynamics of the hunt preclude setting them up. In which case there is no substitute for plenty of practice in offhand shooting . They strike me as a partial answer but not the whole answer. I know for sure that we don't have enough flat terrain around here for them to be much use, but on a flat plain or open pan would be another story.
Steve.

quote:

They shure look like a nice way to F-up and nice wood stock on a high priced rifle!

We roll bicycle inner tube rubber on the top parts of the sticks where the rifle rests in, no harm done to the stock. I have seen the long grass sticks as well and the top of the sticks are also covered nicely and shouldnt harm the stock. I can bet you you will scratch and hurt a stock on a African safari and it would be from natural cause branches, trees or travelling in the vehicle the least of your worry would be the shooting sticks.

If you are worried about that on the safari leave the rifle back home.

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:
I can certainly see the value of having a decent rest where nature hasn't provided one, but can also see any number of situations where the terrain is unsuitable & the dynamics of the hunt preclude setting them up. In which case there is no substitute for plenty of practice in offhand shooting.
Steve.

A set of shooting sticks don't weigh a ton, but sadly they can be a bit noisy and slow to set up. If that is a problem, consider just a single (monopod) stick. Cut at the right height (I like just taller than yourself), it will work wonders helping you in the terrain (sidehilling, steep ascents, descents - you name it). You can use it to glass from, and although not as stable as a bipod or or a tri-pod, it is still a LOT better to shoot from than offhand.

In my part of the World, we normally use dried hazelnut sticks. But anything light, sturdy and straight will do the trick.

The only places sticks are a bit of a problem is when you move around on horses, or when you need both hands for climbing.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
The only places sticks are a bit of a problem is when you move around on horses, or when you need both hands for climbing.
- mike

Mike, as one who used to think that hiking poles were for sissies but have now embraced them wholeheartedly, or one anyway, I can see the wisdom in your statements, especially the last one. I am beginning to think there may be more to shooting sticks than I've previously thought about.
Steve.

T/

quote:

In "the olden days", flinging lead may have been acceptable. When paying the fees for wounded animals same as collected trophies, it makes sense to be sure as possible.

Agreed. I have just finished reading a few classics (late 1800's) and the amount of wounded game was unfathomable. Even some of the "greats" admitted to routinely wounding multiple elephants per day that were never recovered. I suspect that if trophy fees were in place back in the "old days" the same as they are now, we would all be calling them "Selous Sticks".

quote:

Originally posted by G L Krause:
Agreed. I have just finished reading a few classics (late 1800's) and the amount of wounded game was unfathomable. Even some of the "greats" admitted to routinely wounding multiple elephants per day that were never recovered. I suspect that if trophy fees were in place back in the "old days" the same as they are now, we would all be calling them "Selous Sticks".

Recently read "Danikil Diary" by Wilfred Thesiger in which he traipsed thru the wilds of Ethiopia in the mid 1930s with a 318 WR & 450 NE from what I could make out. I was staggered at the number of inconclusive shots (read wounded animals) he took at game. It took a bit of getting ones head around in todays climate.
"Selous Sticks", its got a ring to it. Pity it'll never catch on.
Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Shooting sticks are a wonderful aid to shooting, but only if you have someone else to carry them.

Otherwise they are a giant nuisance.

Not at all..You just have to get used to carrying and using them..I would say the majority of deer stalkers over here use sticks of one sort or another. When the sticks are not being used to shoot off, they are used as a "third leg" or to steady your bino's while glassing.

When you first start using them, they are a PIA, but after a while it feels strange to stalk without them..

I have a both the kneeling and standing versions of the Stony Point ones. Depending on where/what I am hunting, I will throw the appropriate set in my pack. Take up no room and have proven themselves worthy of the hassle a couple of times.

They've certainly been around as long as firearms themselves.

Wood stock concerns.....there is a company that makes "chaps" for rifles. They work well.

http://www.thegunsource.com/Items.aspx?QID=-3&CAT=59&MFG=228

I hunted with a couple of Austrians last year who had the oddest shooting sticks I've ever seen. The sticks looked incredibly awkward and the clients insisted on carrying them themselves....... but they were incredibly fast and effective in use.

They were actually 4 sticks but like 2 sets of bipods joined together and you could even set them up, lay the rifle across them and walk away....... worked a treat!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I hunted with a couple of Austrians last year who had the oddest shooting sticks I've ever seen. The sticks looked incredibly awkward and the clients insisted on carrying them themselves....... but they were incredibly fast and effective in use.

They were actually 4 sticks but like 2 sets of bipods joined together and you could even set them up, lay the rifle across them and walk away....... worked a treat!

Got a photo of them, Steve?

In 1973 when I hunted with Finn Aagaard in Kenya he used a home made bipod (two 1"d. sticks connected with inner tube wrappings)and Kinuno set them up for all the shots I took. Once you get used to them they are not an issue. The Long Grass tripod works great and I really liked using the same tripod I had practiced on before my 2006 safari. Adam Clements had the same model I had practiced with in Lolkisale for my hunt.
Robert

Brian Miller at Keerweder Safaris has the same sticks. I set up for a shot w/them once but didn't like using all four legs. Set up for a second shot and I used them as a bipod. Didn't make a shot either way. I guess they would be OK w/practice.
Robert

Blair,

I'm bloody sure I took some pics of the sticks, but can't find them anywhere...... sorry!

They look like 2 sets of bipods that ate interconnected and putting them up if you don't know what you're doing is a bit like wrestling with an octopus..... but the guys who had them got them up and working in a heartbeat.......

Here's a picture of "shooting sticks" that seem to very popular in Africa nowadays:



Nice thing about them is that they are not cumbersome to carry around - in fact - they have wheels of their own

And they deliver awesome results as can be seen in this pic:



Some PH's love them as they really give a steady rest to clients

Me... well I prefer carrying the traditional ones.

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
What happened to putting the time in to learn how to shoot. Taking a rest for a +300yrd shoot is one thing but using a rest for a 50 yard shot on buff is another. Using a rest for most of your shooting, will get you into a world of shit.
There may come a time when you don't have time to use one, such as during a charge or in self defense. If all you have done is shoot off the bench or off sticks you won't have the skills needed to prevail!

JD

No argument there. I practice mainly offhand, but any advantage I can get to avoid wounding an animal or watching a $2500.00 trophy fee lope off into the bush is one I'll take. I practice on monopods, bipods, and tripods. I also will shoot off a back pack, a tree limb, a log, or a rock. It's all about shot placement and any help I can get, I'll take.

For the life of me I can't understand why someone coming many thousands of miles to Africa to hunt dangerous game (I don't care about the argument about sticks for plains game)wouldn't want to be a good offhand shot -and make damn sure that he was. (In my youth, I was expected in the US Army on a range to shoot well offhand at 200 yards) What's so difficult about shooting well offhand at 50 yards? I did so -after intensive practice for over 6 months before I saw Africa and I was 63 when I went to Africa for buff. I had no intention of being shamed before my PH or the trackers -and the proudest memory I have is that I didn't shame myself. Practice, practice -and then practice some more. Believe me, it will pay off -and you will have a real confidence in yourself as a rifleman that no shooting sticks can give. (I'm not objecting to using a rest for long shots.I used to shoot as a teenager at woodchucks at ranges up to nearly 600 yards -at woodchucks with a 220 Swift at ranges up to maybe 600 and ,yes, even maybe 700 yards (I didn't say I always hit 'em) -using a stone wall (and a heavy towel I carried tucked in my belt for a cushion. So I'm not so stupid as to say don't use a rest. I also have leaned against a tree more than once to shoot at a whitetail deer. I'm just simply urging that shooting at DG means that you must be ready as a rifleman to shoot at once. There's no time for setting up the aiming sticks. At least there wasn't in my one time of facing a buff at 35 yards or so.

I figure if I can group four rounds rapid fire offhand into an eight inch circle with my .375 at fifty, and group four rounds into a two inch circle at twenty five yards the same way with irons, I'm ready. I could do that before I left for my last hunt. I can still do it. I practice year around with a variety of rifles under a variety of circumstances.

I'm not interested in impressing anybody. It's all about preparedness. I want to make the cleanest kill possible. If that impresses the PH or trackers, so be it. The thought of impressing somebody or shaming myself doesn't cross my mind and never has. I'm out there to do a proper job and that's the long and the short of it.

The whole thing depends on the circumstances. Only a fool or a man who cares nothing about wounding game and/or losing a very large trophy fee will surrender any advantage he can get. If the opportunity presents itself to use a rest, I will.

gerrys375

When practicing for DG I'd hope for the results you advocate. However, the thread is about shooting sticks being a new idea or not. Before I am priveledged to afford hunting something dangerous, there's a wealth of "plains game" hunting offered and in that pursuit I found out that hunting sticks help me. They also show me how BAD I do shoot offhand and give me something to work on / master in the interim between "plains" and "dangerous" game hunting attempts.

2 cents more, and "Cheers!"

Barry

There seems to be quite a bit of chest beating in this discussion, or am I mistaken??

- mike