quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Aaron,

I have to say one thing I have always appreciated about you personally is that you have shared information with me, answered specific questions, and yet, I have never booked a hunt through you.

That doesn't mean I won't some day and I would do so without hesitation.

Just wanted to publically thank you for that.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Damn, and all this time I thought booking agents were there to be blamed if anything went south, just like republicans. Learn something everyday on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
In response to Drummond, and his latest thread regarding BlairWorld Wide. Below is simply my account/advice, as it pertains to booking agents, and the consideration for your next hunt.

Regardless, its an "agent" like this (BWW) that makes my job a whole lot harder. Look, IMO an agent serves one very important role in the hunting industry. That's to, with PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE/PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - help clients book hunts for species/locations/outfitters that they themselves (Client) have little to no knowledge/experience with, period!!

Unfortunately we have ALL TO OFTEN nowadays "agents" like Blair WorldWide, and many others - offering hunts to places/outfitters, and for species/trophies, that they themselves (Agent) KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, HAVE NEVER BEEN TO, nor have any personal knowledge/experience with either?????? Mind boggling!!!

Look, a truly "experienced/knowledgable" agent is IMO the very best thing that you as a traveling hunter can find, when considering your next hunt. For example, and we will keep it simple. Perhaps you want a Zim buff hunt, but don't know who/where to go? Obviously lots of options, and when talking to an individual outfitter, of course he's gonna try to sell you his hunt - its the only one he's got. But a very experienced agent, who's been there/done that numerous times, with numerous different outfitters, can listen to ALL of your wants/desires, and arrange your hunt with the outfit that fits BEST - not just the only one that fits at all. But to get this, you must deal with EXPERIENCED AGENTS! Not someone like the dozens of agents we have around today, who've been on 3 hunts in their whole life, but by George they are a booking agent!!! Good grief!

I see it all over the place, right here on AR too (all the time)! "Agents" selling hunts to outfits/locations/species, and they know absolutely no more about it, than the folks they are trying to sell to!!!!!! Its the blind, leading the blind. Awful!!!!!! One week the outfitter is here on AR asking for good agents to use (nothing wrong with that) and the next week some agent here on AR is selling his hunts, really?

Look, I get outfitters ALL the TIME - almost daily, wanting me to represent their hunts. And like some guys here, I too sell alot of hunts. But almost without exception, me/my guys DO NOT sell hunts to places that we have NOT been ourselves. How do you sell something, that you know nothing about, or have never been to? You can't, certainly not if you are trying to be ethical/honest about it.

I just got back myself from Argentina a couple of days ago - all big game hunting stuff. Well, this trip served two purposes for me. First, we made a great TV show, and second, I now have the personal experience I need to sell Argentina big game hunts. Of which, I did NOT personally sell before - as I had no personal knowledge/experience. Same reason I'm going to Spain in December. I'm wanting to expand my base of hunts offered currently, but I refuse to do so - without the personal experience needed to do my job correctly and honestly! Why do I sell so many hunts to Africa, well - I've personally hunted there over 30 times, and I leave again next Friday for another 3 week safari. I don't know every inch of Africa, but I know this - if I'm offering you a hunt to the "dark continent", there's a damn good chance that I've already walked the same dirt, and hunted the same species that I am recommending you hunt too!!!

"Agent sir, I want a lion hunt in Africa". Ok client, I got just the one for you. This outfitter contacted me two weeks ago, and told me what a great hunt/area this is, and so now I'm selling it to you. Agent sir, have you ever been there? Nope, but don't worry - I know his sister! Agent sir, have you ever hunted lion before - that way you can give me knowledgable info about what to expect, how to do it, etc? Nope, but don't worry its easy - just hang meat in a tree, and they come running. Oh, and make the check payable to......

Folks, let this be Aaron Neilson's public service message to the hunting industry, and all the AR members/clients that I consider friends. If you are looking to book future hunts - with an agent of any kind, which you should. PLEASE ask them some very basic/helpful questions. Like, have you sir ever been to this exact place, have you sir ever actually hunted some of these species yourself, etc. In other words, "qualify" your agent, thus you know he's "qualified" to be working on your behalf. Of course, JMO.

quote:

IMO an agent serves one very important role in the hunting industry. That's to, with PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE/PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - help clients book hunts for species/locations/outfitters that they themselves (Client) have little to no knowledge/experience with, period!!

quote:

Originally posted by Greg Brownlee:
Oh we all know you just take multiple photos with the same lion and call them different cats!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I guess I missed it, but I thought the agent's primary role was shipping trophies?

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:

quote:

IMO an agent serves one very important role in the hunting industry. That's to, with PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE/PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - help clients book hunts for species/locations/outfitters that they themselves (Client) have little to no knowledge/experience with, period!!

Precisely.

quote:

Originally posted by Full Roar:
Well Aaron, this is probably a good time for me to be quite, but I guess thats not going to be the case as I am feeling pretty darn stupid today.

My first African hunt, to Namibia, was booked thru Safari Outfitters at the SCI convention in Reno some years back. I am going to make it short and sweet when I say the exact thing that you mention above happened. I met the "Legend" PH who ageed to lead me and my son around. When I say legend there is a Zebra named after his family. Booked a package hunt for both of us, paid up front in full right there at the convention and was gauranteed a "great hunt" with a "legend" in an "original tented camp"
Well, from that point everything went south. No one to pick us up at the airport. Motel reservations in Windhoek were not made. The "legend" did not pick us up. We were picked up at about 3pm the next day by a South African guy in a ranch truck and subsequently guided by. I must have changed 15 tires on that POS truck in ten days. The "Original Tent Camp" was situated along side an original ranch house that the guides stayed in. Not exactly "in the bush" as advertized. Our guide, I am not going to give him the PH status, had only been on the concession a couple times. No one from Safari Outfitters had ever been to the area. They sold us animals that were not even on the property. It was a high fence hunt, so they should have known what was there. We drove 40 miles to another guys little 10k farm and proceeded to shoot most of the animals in our "package" in this guys pasture out of the back of the ranch truck. It felt like shooting sheep and to this day I am embarrased about participating, im sure I would not have had my 12 year old son not been along. The trackers gave up on the "guide" about the 7th day and refused to go out again with him because of his constant abusivness. I tried as hard as I could to get along with the ass, but after about 8 days I had even had enough and we had it out a bit. My son and I played soccer in the yard with the trackers, shared our meals with them and we all got along famously to the point that they confided in us their hatred for this specific guy. In the end we got about 1/2 of our package animals. Our normal day was get up at 7, have a cold breakfast served by some very pissy black ladies, go out riding in the back of the truck. Stop and walk around till about 10. Return to camp, lazy about until lunch, have lunch, take a nap and then go sit in a blind at a water hole until dark. Hardly hunting in my opinion.
On the way back to the airport the dam truck broke down again (I had to fix it) and took up all the time we should have had to do a little shopping for native made crafts for the family at the various places along the way back and we barely made it back to the airport in time to catch the flight out. BTW I left the guy a grand in TC's as I did not want anyone to think I was cheap, he certainly did not deserve it.
Worst hunting experiance of my life. I bitched to Safari Outfitters and was told to buzz off. And I thought I was booking thru one of the "premier" booking agents and a fellow Wyomingite. Very sad let down

All Booking Agents I have spoken to insist tht they work for the client/hunters - not the outfitters. If anyone thinks about this a bit you will recognize that this cannot be the case. There will always be more people wanting to go on a dream hunt, nearly un-limited, but there is definatly limited numbers of outfitters. Its not in the best interest of the booking agent to stand with the client and throw the operator under the bus over a problem. If booking agents did this they would soon find themselves with no operators willing to use their services. BWW is a great example. They totally screwed a client out of a bunch of money but still have the oufitters working with them.

That being said, I am going to digress a bit. There are definatly booking agents out there who will go to bat for their clients if there is a legitimate gripe. I finally met one, got in a tangle with a hunt booked with Broom who sold my hunt to another outfitter in a different area and they went to bat for me. Knowing which booking agent you can trust to work for you is the difficult and sometimes expensive part.
Anyone who had there first african safari ruined because they willingly trusted someone who should have been trust worthy has my sympathy. Just because they are a big company and have a recognizable name via a bunch of advertizing does not make a booking agent any better that the un-known little guy who does very little advertizing.
Unfortunatly for me it took two trips to africa before I learned to ask the right questions.
Rest assured, I wont be booking any hunts with Safari Outfitters or Atchensons again in my lifetime, (two very well known booking companies) they are on the same list as BWW in my book. Please dont take it personal, you were not with Safari Outfitters at that time, so I dont harbor any ill will against you. On another note, just because they are a well known outfitter or PH does not mean they are a good one IMO
I have been all over fishing and hunting. The only two bad experiances I have had have been in africa with well known PH's and equally well known booking companies. Hawaii, Florida, Arizona, Spain, New Zealand, Canada, New Bruswick, Queen Charlottes, New Mexico, Mexico, Belize, Panama, Costa Rica to name most of the places I have booked a hunting or fishing adventure to I have never had an issue and everything was as advertized. I wonder why?

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
had similar experience with safari outfitters too

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
had similar experience with safari outfitters too

Ok, so I'll throw the same question I mentioned above - back to you and "full roar". Whoever sold the hunt to you, did you "qualify" him first, or did you assume since he worked for Safari Outfitters, that he "knew" what he was doing/selling, etc?

Doesn't matter what the company name is - the agent should meet certain "qualifications", or you should look elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Full Roar:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
had similar experience with safari outfitters too

Ok, so I'll throw the same question I mentioned above - back to you and "full roar". Whoever sold the hunt to you, did you "qualify" him first, or did you assume since he worked for Safari Outfitters, that he "knew" what he was doing/selling, etc?

Doesn't matter what the company name is - the agent should meet certain "qualifications", or you should look elsewhere.

Nope, no qualifying, no personal experiance with africa and no mentor. I figured such a well known company and well known PH would be 100% ethical, and as such I booked my first African Hunt with that thought in mind, and my second and in truth my third. By the third time I definatly knew the game a bit better and investigated the booking agent a bit better. The PH still turned out bad (?) The hunt in Zim turned out great although not what I booked, who I booked with, area I booked for and paid for, but the agent held out final distribution of funds until everything was settled to my satisfaction. May he RIP-he did look after my interests first

Aaron, you are 100% correct. A person booking an expensive hunt to africa or anywhere else for that matter needs to speak to a booking agent who is not just another used car salesman, or know the Outfitter or PH personally.
I mean no disrespect to you, actually you have my full respect. A good booking agent can (and has) pull your fat out of the fire. Likewise with a good travel agency.
I also was not aware that Safari Outfitters has changed owners. Hopefully that has resulted in a change in ethics.
I'm not here to ruffle any feathers and your advise and knowledge is appreciated. The real fact is I pay very close attention to what you and Wendell say, along with a few of the PH's who occasionally post.
Just dont call me sir, I'm just as good as you are

quote:

Originally posted by Full Roar:
Cool.

By the way, you still got that Cambodian Razorback Tiger Hunt available? Tempting......how much do I make the check out for?

quote:

Originally posted by WV2WY:
Aaron is spot on in this post. Im sure many outfitters like myself have had Agents call wanting to handle hunts for them without ever seeing the camp or hunting with them.

I dont know Aaron, but his advice is correct. In this day and time you have to check your Agent as much as the outfitter.