Hi gents:
I guess it is time to throw in my 2 cents on the Mark Sullivan issue. At Dallas and Reno I heard lots of negative comments on Mark's ethics. Some of the most damning from Kevin Robertson--Doctari. Every and I mean EVERY bad comment was from those who had never hunted with Mark. They all knew they spoke truth but none had any actual experience. On the other hand, a dozen who hunted with Mark had nothing but positive things to say: he has a top quality camp, does not spotlight or shoot from a vehicle, and produces top quality trophies for his clients.

I sum it all up to jealousy. Mark has carved a special part of the hunt world as his own. He is very successful at it. In order to set himself apart from all the rest of the PHs he had to do something different and he did. If those that missed the boat do this now, they will be accused of copying Mark. Mark made it and my hat is off to him. Why does John Sharp take off his shirt for his photos? To set himself apart.

As to Mark's ethics. There is nothing unethical about walking up to a wounded animal and killing it. The animal suffers less than the other PHs who wait until the animal "stiffens up" for 1/2 to a full hour. I have seen clients on Mark's videos drop an animal with one shot but that is not how it is done all the time--all PHs have clients wound animals but there is not one reported first-hand experience of MS or his clients wounding intentionally to induce a charge.

I have only met Mark twice. At the Sea Cliff hotel in Dar in '06 and at SCI in Reno in '09 when I asked him to allow me to use some of his information in my new book on the .600 nitro express. We are not close friends and I only write this to show I am not making an emotional appeal for a friend. I think this guy has taken a lot of low blows and is not deserving of them.

As far as the ethics of the regular brand of PHs? I have watched game auctions in South Africa where pre-measured animals are sent off to be shot, spotlighting elephants in Zim is an accepted practice as is shooting from a vehicle. One PH I know drives all day looking for animals to shoot--his Courtneys will last 20 years as he does not walk anymore. Two twins I met in '06 showed me their Tanzanian hunt on dvd. They shot their lion by spotlight and their elephant in the butt. Their hippo from a vehicle. I watched another well-known PH show me "how it is really done" as he was knocking down Mark. His client wounded a buff and everyone jumped in the back of the Land Rover. The Rover's bed was surrounded by a cage of heavy tubing up to the shooters shoulder. The wounded buff as tracked by the car and shot from the vehicle. Ethics?

After 13 hunting trips to Africa I have seen lots of stuff. I have never shot from a water hole, from a vehicle, nor with a spotlight. I'm pleased the truth is coming out in this forum. My hat is off to Mark and I would hunt with him in a minute and will do so when I can save up some money. The man has guts! It is fine if someone does not like the way Mark hunts--we can't please everyone--but Mark's experience with a double rifle speaks volumes. He know show to shoot AND where to shoot.

And, I'll sign my name to this, not a fancy moniker to hide my identity.
Cheers all,
Cal Pappas

OK, 80 posts; 2,857 views (that's Two thousand, Eight hundred Fifty seven Views) at this point, and still all the people in the world who check out Accurate Reloading, no one has yet to post that they actually hunted with Him. For those who have not figured it out, I have never hunted with Him. May be time to end this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
I hunted with Him multiple times, one was even a "family safari", which included my 93 year old grandmother, and my 2 and 3 year old grand children. At all times He was a perfect gentleman and took time to see we all had a good time. Grandma even got to shoot an ardvark! So what's the problem? (I also booked a 3 week buffalo hunt with Him at the 2010 Safari Club International Convention).

Very strange indeed!

How could you have booked a hunt with him if he was banned from the 2010 convention?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
I hunted with Him multiple times, one was even a "family safari", which included my 93 year old grandmother, and my 2 and 3 year old grand children. At all times He was a perfect gentleman and took time to see we all had a good time. Grandma even got to shoot an ardvark! So what's the problem? (I also booked a 3 week buffalo hunt with Him at the 2010 Safari Club International Convention).

Very strange indeed!

How could you have booked a hunt with him if he was banned from the 2010 convention?

The answer to that is -- I did not hunt with him, I assumed those who follow this thread would figure out that it was a joke, it is pretty much common knowledge that he was banned from the 2010 SCI convention ( or so I thought). Sorry if my weak attempt at humor confused anyone. I think a lot of us have had some good natured fun with this topic!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I guess the non-disclosure agreements also keep Mark's supporters who have hunted with him from reporting back to us.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
465, that, or the sheer embarrassment factor.
Rich

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
OK, 80 posts; 2,857 views (that's Two thousand, Eight hundred Fifty seven Views) at this point, and still all the people in the world who check out Accurate Reloading, no one has yet to post that they actually hunted with Him. For those who have not figured it out, I have never hunted with Him. May be time to end this thread.

I'm not sure how you guys managed to miss this by our own Dave Fulson:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:

... In 1993 I spent over two months filming portions of "Death On The Run" for Sullivan in Tanzania. I was, and still am grateful for the chance that trip provided me. During that safari I saw and filmed a lot of hunting, shooting ( yes, some by MS) and experienced safari life with Mark. I was impressed with his bedside manner with clients, and felt that he truly enjoys Africa and the adventure he finds in his role of P.H The clients who I was in camp were in awe of him ( as many hunters of their P.H.'s no matter where they hunt) and there were some great trophies taken from some very good areas. I had some real good memories from that hunt, but also crossed swords with Mark on one matter that got very ugly, very fast. It was and is a private problem, and to both our credit as guys that can go from 0 to 60 real quick, we solved it to our satisfaction. While there were situations that I did not agree with on the trip, there is one area I will address. I saw a lot of buff shot on that trip, and I never saw one by either MS or a client intentionally wounded to provide charge situations. Charges did happen, and you know that MS relishes those situations like no other P.H I had seen before or since, but none ON THAT SAFARI were wounded in order to prompt angry animals. Poor shooting was to blame in the instances I filmed. Mark wanted to be well known, he has stated that from day 1. Mission accomplished in the safari biz. To some he is more infamous than famous, to each his own. I never hunted, or tried to hunt with Mark after that hunt, but I look back on it as a good experience all in all. Besides those days in '93 I cannot comment on a single aspect of his methods in the field. I have seen his DVD's , and like many of you have disagreed with some of the content. Enough said. Jeff asked someone with experience on safari with Mark to state their experience. That is what I have done. Certainly my limited experience in the field is simply a peek into a long career and should not be taken as anything but that. I never saw the wounding of game for video purposes on that one safari. Others may have different experiences...

This isn't just the single client hunting with Sullivan that everyone has been waiting to hear from, but rather a well-trusted member of AR who actually accompanied him on a number of hunts and filmed what took place. Dave attests that he "spent over two months filming portions of the video Death On The Run for Sullivan in Tanzania" and "never saw one by either MS or a client intentionally wounded to provide charge situations".

It seems that this kind of first-hand observation is somehow irrelevant to those on this board that insist on demonizing Mark Sullivan. I don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Hi gents:
I guess it is time to throw in my 2 cents on the Mark Sullivan issue. At Dallas and Reno I heard lots of negative comments on Mark's ethics. Some of the most damning from Kevin Robertson--Doctari. Every and I mean EVERY bad comment was from those who had never hunted with Mark. They all knew they spoke truth but none had any actual experience. On the other hand, a dozen who hunted with Mark had nothing but positive things to say: he has a top quality camp, does not spotlight or shoot from a vehicle, and produces top quality trophies for his clients.

...

After 13 hunting trips to Africa I have seen lots of stuff. I have never shot from a water hole, from a vehicle, nor with a spotlight. I'm pleased the truth is coming out in this forum. My hat is off to Mark and I would hunt with him in a minute and will do so when I can save up some money. The man has guts! It is fine if someone does not like the way Mark hunts--we can't please everyone--but Mark's experience with a double rifle speaks volumes. He know show to shoot AND where to shoot.

And, I'll sign my name to this, not a fancy moniker to hide my identity.
Cheers all,
Cal Pappas

Cal:

Thanks for your sober, dispassionate, and fact-based observations on what is probably this board's most contentious subject. It's gratifying to see the occasional reasoned opinion on Sullivan. While he undoubtedly likes shooting his clients' game, if they're happy with that, it's none of my business. And apart from an ego-on-steroids on-camera personality, I too find little to quarrel with regarding his hunting style.

Like you, in previous posts I have noted that Sullivan's wounded buffalo suffer no more - and in all probability less - than those wounded by other PHs who allow them to sicken and 'stiffen up' before following-up and killing them. Indeed, I have openly asked those that accuse Sullivan of permitting undue suffering of his wounded buffalo to opine on the suffering occasioned upon DG that are hunted with handguns, bow & arrows, and other vanity weapons. No takers yet, I'm afraid. I wonder why?

I have talked to 2 people that have hunted with Mark more than once.

Both of them had nothing but high praise for him as a PH.

One of them stated Mark never fired a shot on either of his hunts.


The other has hunted with Mark several times. He stated to me, that when he hunts with Mark, BOTH of them are hunting, and BOTH of them SHOOT. He is in several of Marks videos...

Is Mr. Sullivan a member of AR?

The only problem with "both of them are hunting, and both of them shoot...". Only one of them is paying for the game both of them shoot. When I go hunting with somebody we shoot at different animals.


STILL: no one who has hunted with the Great One here to support him.

The silence is deafening...

Rich

Are the videos being referred to identical to those on youtube?

They are quite interesting. A lot of them were hippos. Some buffalo and a few elephant.

Since I'll never get to hunt DG, I admit to this being strictly a novice opinion of him. I do like his personal bravery and his marksmanship. It's the kind of markmanship that one comes by only two ways, either because it's a gift, or through years and years and experience together with lots of motivation.

It also looked like he by-passed a chance at a shot or two when the animal didn't charge.

Strikes me as a good man to have on your side.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
The only problem with "both of them are hunting, and both of them shoot...". Only one of them is paying for the game both of them shoot. When I go hunting with somebody we shoot at different animals.

STILL: no one who has hunted with the Great One here to support him.

The silence is deafening...

Rich

Rich, I guess you've elected to discount the fist-hand observations by Dave Fulson as non-credible? As a reminder, Dave spent several weeks and witnessed numerous hunts with Sullivan. And he saw no evidence of deliberate wounding of game. I recognize that his statements are terribly inconvenient for you, but they do seem germane all the same.

My guess is that Sullivan's clients either don't read AR or are unwilling to participate in an overtly hostile thread where they will be pilloried simply for such association. Can't say that I'd blame them.

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Is Mr. Sullivan a member of AR?

Why would he bother? Aside from a handful of people who have met him and have generally positive things to say the rest of this is just sniping by a bunch of keyboard commandos who have seen a video or two. I think Cal Pappas probably nailed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
Are the videos being referred to identical to those on youtube?

They are quite interesting. A lot of them were hippos. Some buffalo and a few elephant.

Since I'll never get to hunt DG, I admit to this being strictly a novice opinion of him. I do like his personal bravery and his marksmanship. It's the kind of markmanship that one comes by only two ways, either because it's a gift, or through years and years and experience together with lots of motivation.

It also looked like he by-passed a chance at a shot or two when the animal didn't charge.

Strikes me as a good man to have on your side.

I don't think anyone ever questioned his fortitude or ability with a double rifle. I certainly wouldn't.

The only issue I have is the fact that he portrays hunting as something it is not. We don't get charged by every DG animal we hunt, that is simply a fact. His films are misleading, and those who know no better swallow it. I don't know whether he wounds animals intentionally but I do know that he provokes them needlessly. I would rather up and coming African hunters watched other, more realistic hunting videos made by guys who have an understanding of the word 'hunt'. There are plenty of them out there, and don't worry you'll still get your charges, albeit not around every bush.

My issue with MS movies can kind of be related to the issues I have with the movies produced by the crocodile guy from Australia and the bear guy from Alaska, the lion guys in Kenya..... That is not how it is supposed to happen. Kids are watching these films and believing it's the way to do it. Fortunately, I think that most kids have more sense than the movie stars. I was watching the snake guy from wherever on TV with some kids over Christmas. All those kids could say was how dumb the guy was. I said nothing, with a smile on my dial.


Of course, This is all in my not so humble opinion.....

Cheers, David

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
I sum it all up to jealousy.

Not entirely.

Many of us have real concerns about his methods, and in particular the methods he uses to induce so many animals to charge on film.

Charges simply do not happen at the rate seen in his films, as anyone with African hunting experience should know.

So, we ask, what is going on here? And based on what we see and what we hear, we have our suspicions, as any thinking person would.

Plus, and I will leave it at this, the image he projects in his videos is quite simply repugnant to many of us.

That is not jealousy. It's just common sense, a healthy dose of skepticism and good taste.

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Is Mr. Sullivan a member of AR?

Why would he bother? Aside from a handful of people who have met him and have generally positive things to say the rest of this is just sniping by a bunch of keyboard commandos who have seen a video or two. I think Cal Pappas probably nailed it.

Ain't that the truth!

quote:

STILL: no one who has hunted with the Great One here to support him.

The silence is deafening...

Rich

Nor hunted with him and confirmed the guilty verdict by everyone who has not.

Just say'n

Assume that MS does not wound game on purpose to force charges.
Assume he only forces charges by entering the animal's comfort zone.
We could talk about the ethics of that...

But there is another issue. I think most PH's would agree that it is unethical to put clients in unnecessary danger.
I reckon most PHs would like to get the client close enough to have the best shot opportunity without putting them in reckless danger.

Perhaps this is part of the ND clause...

I'm not saying that an element of danger isn't interesting, but if MS likes death at his feet he should buy licenses and hunt on his own.

Good morning, gents:
Is anyone out there who would be interested in a hunt with Mark Sullivan? I have been trying to put one together for a year with a few guys that own .600 double rifles. Since I wrote the book on the .600s, and Mark hunts with one more that perhaps anyone in history, it would have been a great experience. However it is impossible to coordinate a schedule between a few professionals and I doubt it will ever happen. So, why not here? Two or three viewers of this forum can come together in 2011 for a hunt. I have a friend who will go along and video the hunt and I'm sure Mark will have his own cameraman, too. Personally, I like Mark's style and will hunt with my vintage wilkes .600 double and it would be nice of others would hunt with old doubles but that is not a requirement. When we book the hunt if Mark says, "OK guys, we are to shoot the buffalo in the guts to wound him. Please don't make a killing shot--let's wound and let him suffer a bit to induce a charge" then we will know how it happens. Seriously, we all know that won't happen. We all will take buffalo (maybe two) and have the vacation of of our lives in Tanzania and have it on film. When we are not with Mark (a PH can only have two clients in the field at a time) we can go with an associate PH for plains game. Think about it and email me via my website and let's begin the planning stage.

One more thing, as to Mark's being outspoken when referring to a .470 as a lady's rifle and other comments, you must remember this is his stage and he is the actor. He is bringing attention to himself and he does this well. We all like to be noticed--that's why I spend lots of time on a website about double rifles and African hunting and write articles and a book or two. That is why John Sharp poses without a shirt. Every time we open this forum what do we see? A guy with a buffalo posing with his hands on the buff but with arms outstretched to make the buff look bigger that he is. That's his thing. Readers are not jealous of Mark, just the other PHs who can't or won't do what he does. If you were introduced to Mark, you all would like him. Just set aside the theatrics and give him a break. We are all in this together.
Cheers all,
Cal

quote:

He is bringing attention to himself and he does this well

quote:

Readers are not jealous of Mark, just the other PHs who can't or won't do what he does

Cal, Welcome to AR.

The way I understand it why so many REAL African PHs are not so keen on imitating Mark Sullivan is not because of jealousy.

It is because they do not wish to lower themselves down to his level.

He might be the nicest individual in person. But the way he shows himself in videos is the exact opposite.

Cal those are Saeeds hands on that buff with Walter sitting in the background.It was done to poke fun of the standard trophy shot

Cal,

the picture at the top is supposed to be a joke, a spoof if you will; of hunters who all want a bigger trophy than the next guy.

Of course, that is also what about 99% of us here think about MS. All he needs is a Bozo wig and the suit to be perfect.

I wouldn't care to hunt with him if the hunt were free. Unless, of course, I could make him hunt with a bow and arrow. I might pay well to experience that show firsthand.

regards,

Rich

Cal

Not everyone wants to hunt with a poser or an actor. At least one of us doesn't want any damn part of them, let alone being lumped together with them as "hunters".

Actors are paid to be something they are not.

sg

Good afternoon:
A few folks are interested in the pursuit of a hunt in 2011 with Mark and have emailed me. If it pans out I will publicize it and see where it goes. Also, I received a correction about the brothers who hunted in Tanzania. The hippo was shot on land, not from a vehicle, the elephant in the butt to stop it, but no word on the lion and the spotlight. My apology for the errors.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I guess the non-disclosure agreements also keep Mark's supporters who have hunted with him from reporting back to us.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
465, that, or the sheer embarrassment factor.
Rich

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
OK, 80 posts; 2,857 views (that's Two thousand, Eight hundred Fifty seven Views) at this point, and still all the people in the world who check out Accurate Reloading, no one has yet to post that they actually hunted with Him. For those who have not figured it out, I have never hunted with Him. May be time to end this thread.

I'm not sure how you guys managed to miss this by our own Dave Fulson:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:

... In 1993 I spent over two months filming portions....... I filmed a lot....... some by MS........ truly enjoys Africa ..... The clients who I was in camp were in awe of him........

It seems that this kind of first-hand observation is somehow irrelevant to those on this board that insist on demonizing Mark Sullivan. I don't get it.

OK, I have read the post above several times and am still not sure if Dave actually hunted as a client of his or was doing the filming or both. What I was thinking was that perhaps someone who hunted with him once or multiple times as a paying client would compare him to other PH's they had hunted with, and if they enjoyed that style of hunting. Also, if they requested that they be the only ones shooting, if he allowed that to happen? I do recall Alan Day always jumping in years ago and saying that he had great hunts with the man. I don't ever recall seeing anyone else here on AR stating that they were actually a paying client of his. I do recall one of my PH's saying over sundowners one night when the subject came up that he was very expensive to hunt with and "you probably couldn't ever afford his tip!" Anyway, we are now at 3,835 views and no paying client as far as I can tell. I know that this forum is the best on the internet as far as African hunting goes, and the place to come for information. It always amazes me when someone comes on here and asks " anybody ever hunt with so and so" and even if it is the most obscure outfit in Africa, there is usually several responses in just a few hours. I don't intend to "demonize" him. I have spoken to him several time in Reno and Dallas, shook his hand, bought his book (read it and enjoyed it) and videos, had him sign his book for me. I did tell him once " you're gonna end up like Steve Irwin one of these days - A buff's gonna get you!". He just laughed.

quote:

Ok, here is my two cents worth. I have know Mark since 1983 he and I served on the board of the Phoenix chapter of SCI together and he was VP the year I served as President. Mark was always one of the first to give his time and efferts to help out. When he had his outfit in BC, I had several friends hunt with him and had great trips. When Mark opened his operation in Africa several of the people who hunted with him in BC headed to Africa. All of them without exception have had nothing but positive feedback to me. When my first wife died Mark tried to help me out of my depression and offered for me to come spend a summer with him in Africa. I regret not taking him up on his kind offer.
I have over the years met and had dinner with Mark and his family and consider him a gentleman in all matters. I personally know over a dozen people who have hunted and will hunt again with Mark. Do I believe or agree with everything Mark says in his movies or books, no. But then again I don't agree with every thing Craig Boddington, Andy Lightbody, Bob Robb, Tony Mandile, Bill Quimby, Pete Sheply or Chuck Adams write, all of whom I am aquainted with.
Frankly I'm tired of all the back stabbing and comments from people who have never met Mark and only come up with third party 'I heard from someone else BS'

Perception is reality
regardless the truth!

Stupid people should not bree

Many of us agree to what MS has done over the years or what he has said. Many of us do not agree with the current President, but there are those that do agree. Its their choice and their choice alone. I truly believe that these subjects should be left alone otherwise there will be more skeletons pulled out of the cuboards on other supposid high profile people in this industry.

I'll just say this, 'jealousy' does not seem to be a personality trait with any PH I have ever met.

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Is Mr. Sullivan a member of AR?

Why would he bother? Aside from a handful of people who have met him and have generally positive things to say the rest of this is just sniping by a bunch of keyboard commandos who have seen a video or two. I think Cal Pappas probably nailed it.

It would be interesting for me and probably for many members to read what Mr.Sullivan is thinking about this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:

quote:

Originally posted by Dark Continent:

quote:

Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Is Mr. Sullivan a member of AR?

Why would he bother? Aside from a handful of people who have met him and have generally positive things to say the rest of this is just sniping by a bunch of keyboard commandos who have seen a video or two. I think Cal Pappas probably nailed it.

It would be interesting for me and probably for many members to read what Mr.Sullivan is thinking about this discussion.

You are right, it would be interesting, but I doubt if he would bother reading the shit that comprises most of this post. No doubt he has better things to do.

quote:

It would be interesting for me and probably for many members to read what Mr.Sullivan is thinking about this discussion.

I don't think he would have a problem with what is being posted here at all. If anything the 4,000+ views on the most popular African hunting site in the world is giving him some great exposure, and will probably sell more of his videos and books than any advertisement posted elsewhere. I notice several members are even planning on booking a hunt with him. He also has a pretty "tough hide" and a good sense of humor. My guess is that he would read this and laugh!

Anyone who could laugh off the charges (sorry) being thrown at this man is nuts.

You accuse me of deliberately wounding game to get sensational film footage designed to appeal to morons? I'd be suing the individuals who said it, the web site, the ISP hosting it and any anyone else who happened to be around at the time. Unless it was true.

One thing is, NO ONE that has hunted with Mark Sullivan, has ever said anything negative about him...

All reports, even those that are second hand, have nothing but praise for his hunting methods.

Anyone that has talked to him in person, says only nice things about him...

ONLY THOSE that have NEVER hunted with him, have anything negative to say....

RB Hunt is soooo correct, I would not be surprised if MS got someone to start this discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by Milo Shanghai:
Anyone who could laugh off the charges (sorry) being thrown at this man is nuts.

You accuse me of deliberately wounding game to get sensational film footage designed to appeal to morons? I'd be suing the individuals who said it, the web site, the ISP hosting it and any anyone else who happened to be around at the time. Unless it was true.

Well Mr Shanghai, that's regressing back to the old "trial by ordeal" of the middle ages. Then the court used to say to the accused...... "hey drink this poison and if you die then you are innocent, survive and you are guilty and we'll kill you anyway"

Great logic eh Shanghai?

I would have thought that MS has far better things to do than launch multiple legal actions all over the world. Good luck suing a web site originating out of Dubai and a bunch of anonymous posters who have developed a pathological hate for someone that they have never met.You didn't really think that one through, did you? You sound like a professional litigant.

I also doubt that there would be any chance of someone accusing you of deliberately wounding dangerous game, there isn't much DG in China is there?

Signed: One of the morons (your terminology) who has actually enjoyed some of the Sullivan footage.

PS: Please don't sue me.

quote:

Originally posted by RBHunt:
OK, 80 posts; 2,857 views (that's Two thousand, Eight hundred Fifty seven Views) at this point, and still all the people in the world who check out Accurate Reloading, no one has yet to post that they actually hunted with Him. For those who have not figured it out, I have never hunted with Him. May be time to end this thread.

End this thread? Well at least it's way more entertaining then some of the recent ones, (i.e."Bob Hope" "Funny Shoes" "A guy with a Parrott eating pepperoni" "Chop Boxes"...oh boy!) Are we that desparate for topics?

That said, I'll state this FWIW: Between safaris we Tanzania PHs get together and catch up on all the latest gossip & happenings in the bush. I can hosestly say that I personally have NOT heard a single rumour of MS hunting illegaly, or intentional wounding; or anything else negative about him. NOT from PHs, Game Scouts nor outfitters.

I worked several years for the very same safari company that MS puts his safaris with, and I hunted DG side by side with the same staff he worked with: Trackers, Game scouts, skinners, managers, & drivers. In fact, my favorite old safari driver (Abossi) was the driver for Mark the day of the "Black Death" charge). I've only heard the nicest words from any & all of them regards MS, and not one negative thing. Believe me, these guys are not shy about talking trash about other PHs! (I've heard many very negative stories about other PHs they worked with).

Most other Tanzania PHs I know seem to have a favorable opinion of MS when asked about him. I think that there probably are a few that dont like him, and this could possibly be a bit professional jealousy regarding his success as an American PH in Africa? I had a call yesterday from a PH friend who lives year round in Dar. He too has hunted many camps that MS hunts. I asked point blank if he heard any of these rumors of wounding or illegal hunting from other PHs,game scouts or staff. He said NO. In fact, he had only good things to say about MS.

Being in this business for many years, I know for an fact that one does not need to "Deliberatly wound game". Many clients are unbelievably bad shots and it happens all too often, much to my regret!! I have witnessed some shots so bad, you would not it think was possible.

Does MS ham it up a bit for the cameras? (maybe. but he is also a promoter & showman). Does MS tend to shoot a bit too often on safari? (Probably). Does MS deliberatly wound animals for filming purposes? The answer should remain NO, at least until we see some genuine first hand, bonifide proof from clients, SCI, Wildlife Dept, Game Scouts etc. Lets not rely on 2nd hand rumours from unnamed individuals to try & convict this man on the internet.

quote:

Does MS ham it up a bit for the cameras? (maybe. but he is also a promoter & showman). Does MS tend to shoot a bit too often on safari? (Probably). Does MS deliberatly wound animals for filming purposes? The answer should remain NO, at least until we see some genuine first hand, bonifide proof from clients, SCI, Wildlife Dept, Game Scouts etc. Lets not rely on 2nd hand rumours from unnamed individuals to try & convict this man on the internet.

Now we're getting the facts - which was the original intent of this thread.

Very helpful and informative post.

Thanks,

JW

Dear Tanz PH,
thankyou for the most informative post above. It is nice to get a bit of reliable information from someone who is in a position to some facts about the fellow in question, ie a PH who lives and works in the areas that MS operates.

Most of the wannabees/couldbees that post on this topic actually know fuck all about the guy and just take their lead from a "learned few" who seem to have a hidden adgenda in their rabid dislike for Sullivan, and don't want the truth to stand in the way of a good story.

Sad little individuals that they are.

Be careful everybody, Gossip kills three: The one who talks, The one who listens, and The one who's spoken of. That came from the bible if my memory is correct, but even if it didn't it's definitely true.

Tanz-PH,

classic example of saying nothing in a positive manner.

RBHunt,

taking a quote out of context is the next best thing to lying. Dave Fulson said he had issues with sullivan, and indicated that he would not care to associate with him on a business venture.

Cal Pappas wants to sell us a hunt without abiding by the rules Saeed has set up. Perhaps he has been around mark too much with regards to rules and ethics.

THE BLOODY IMPORTANT THING: mark sullivan still has no one who has hunted with him come forward to defend him. Where are all those friends and clients? Why have none of the three or four supporters here contacted him and gotten him to come and defend himself?

In the past twenty-plus years SCI and DSC have agreed on just one thing: neither wants mark sullivan within ten miles of any of their meetings.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Tanz-PH,

classic example of saying nothing in a positive manner.

RBHunt,

taking a quote out of context is the next best thing to lying. Dave Fulson said he had issues with sullivan, and indicated that he would not care to associate with him on a business venture.

Cal Pappas wants to sell us a hunt without abiding by the rules Saeed has set up. Perhaps he has been around mark too much with regards to rules and ethics.

THE BLOODY IMPORTANT THING: mark sullivan still has no one who has hunted with him come forward to defend him. Where are all those friends and clients? Why have none of the three or four supporters here contacted him and gotten him to come and defend himself?

In the past twenty-plus years SCI and DSC have agreed on just one thing: neither wants mark sullivan within ten miles of any of their meetings.

Rich

Thanks for your response; just not real certain about what point you are trying to make?

Regards: "..No one who hunted with him has come forward to defend him": True, we would all appreciate if clients who have hunted with him would post their point of view." But why should they? After all, No one really has come forth with any real formal charges yet (or perhaps I missed something?). We only hear: "some game scout said this; or some PH said that". At least we HAVE heard some names of his clients. We are still waiting for names of these people who are said to have leveled these charges.

I'm curious about this SCI & DSC agreement. Could you please be so kind as to post this agreement, (or at very least explain in greater detail)?? We'd all like to see it. OR better yet have a person who was present at these meeting come forth and explain to us first hand? If these two organizations have been trying to ban Sullivan for 20 years, should be easy matter to get some proof. Or is this just more speculation, hearsay & gossip from unnamed scorces?? Funny, SCI seemed to have no problems whatsoever taking his expensive donated safaris or booth money; can't understand why they dont want him at their meetings!!

Dear Tanz PH,
If I may, I would like to point out one major error in your postings. You are trying to apply logic, something that is totally foreign to a lot of posters on this forum, let alone the facts.

You might as well try to push a sloppy turd up a steep slope with a sharp stick.