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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Emergency info needed on the Irikishbor/MaasailandGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
Bait & Switch? Don't Know Timely Communications? Nope. High Pressure/limited time only? Could be interpreted that way. The smoke has cleared and what is in the salt is in the salt. Also, the words written before are here for us to read after.  | |||
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| one of us |
Gentlemen, I read all the posts on this thread. I can see there are issues on both sides. From sheephunter's post, he stated that he had hunted with Pierre and considered him a friend. I am wondering why he felt that just maybe, Pierre did not have his best interests at heart. With that I would like to share with you one my own experience with this exact sort of thing. The only difference was that I had two days notice. I had booked a hunt with HHK Safaris to go to LEMCO. The trophies I wanted were Sable and Buffalo. I got an e-mail from Graham two days before I left for the hunt informing me that he would be taking me to Charisa as he felt that my chances of getting the amimals on the top of my list were greatly enhanced. I replied that when I booked with him, I had complete faith that he would provide me with the best possible hunt. Did I have a good hunt? I had a helleva safari. Did I have a good PH? Had one of the best in Brent Hein and I consider him to be a good friend and I don't think that he just considers me a client. We have done two safaris together and my expectations were not only met, but far exceeded. Oh, there were some additional costs associated with my change of areas and I believe that they were substantial. Graham assumed all additional costs and at no time, even to this day were they mentioned. If you do business with reputable people, folks that you know personally, and folks who really have your best interests in mind, things will work out beyond your expectations. I would hope that sheephunter, Ray and Pierre work things out as there has been no rancor, or anger in anyone's posts. All have acted as gentlemen. Thanks, for allowing me to share my experiences. HOOT | |||
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| One of Us |
Hoot Read Sheephunters Hunt Report. He had a crappy hunt. All of his fears came true. | |||
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| one of us |
Yeah, and it's all his fault for not buying Masai cattle. | |||
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| One of Us |
From Sheephunters Report
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One of Us |
Just what is the situation when you represent to be able to sell a hunt in a concession where you do not have current access and negotiations fail and then switch the client to a lesser area without consultation in the last week? That's my reading through the guff on this thread. Highlights the importance of getting the details on a safari contract so unilateral changes are not possible at the "last moment". If it all worked out good in the end, well then good, but no elephant, no lion, and a 35" buffalo out of a very expensive safari? | |||
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| One of Us |
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| one of us |
Oops, My bad; I meant to say, "yeah, and its all his fault for not buying enough Masai cattle for bait. They are kind of skinny this year". | |||
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| One Of Us |
Seems to me that these 3 or 4 other operators were right, and perhaps knew a thing or two about the area that Ray and Pierre didn't inform Sheephunter of... And I still don't see how Sheephunter was "greedy" in anyway just because he wanted to check out options with others, and especially when Ray and Pierre suddenly change important things only a week before Sheephunter was supposed to leave.  I think that quite a few posters here on AR owe Sheephunter a public apology for jumping on him when he started asking questions. Questions that were obviously justified... | |||
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| One of Us |
Sheephunter deserves a full refund. | |||
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Moderator |
Tanzania is a mine field, filled with too many "suitcase PHs" who show up for the season and hunt marginal concessions. A safari in Tanzania should only be booked with an outfitter that has a long term, direct and 100% control of the concession. No "suitcase PH" is going to have access to the best concessions in Tanzania. The first red flag should have been that the hunt was to be on an Intercon controlled concession. Intercon is a horrible outfitter that floods its concessions with too many PHs and too many clients, they have no interest in nor ability to deliver a first-class safari. The Tanzania Tap Dance where promises are abundant. Unfortunately, the execution with these type of PHs and outfitters is so dependent on others that only luck will give you a decent safari. You have to eliminate as many variables as possible. Weather is a variable, but better to go with an outfitter that has proven quality concessions and take a risk with the weather, than hunting on a marginal concession. Almost anyone can book and PH a bunch of Selous 7 day buffalo hunts, but when it comes to full-bag safaris; go with the resident outfitters who are in control of their own concessions. Regards, Terry  Msasi haogopi mwiba [A hunter is not afraid of thorns] | |||
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| <mikeh416Rigby> |
I wonder why some agents won't work with a written contract to protect their clients.   | ||
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one of us |
I find it comical that when a hunter has questions he gets called greedy. Booking agents love to come to this site to sell their hunts but when bad reports or questions or miscommunications are reported then they say that should be handled privately. Can't have it both ways on the internet. As hunters we are to keep paying the rising prices of safari and just "trust us". Well like in any business as the product cost more the consumer ask more questions because more is at stake. I don't spend as much time buying a sandwhich as I do a $50,000 car. I just try the sandwhich and if it sucks I go buy another one. So let me be the first to say sorry for asking questions or being to worried or anxious. Just cut all the hunts by 75% and I think you will find us hunters to be much "less difficult" | |||
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| one of us |
If this was a once in a lifetime hunt ... I suspect that the client would forever feel that he never got a reasonable chance . This is all too sad.  | |||
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One of Us |
For those of you who obviously confuse them... Shinola is shoe polish. | |||
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one of us |
Terry, Thank You for that "suitcase PH" term! That has now entered my vocabulary as it such an accurate term. I'm not saying one way or the other that it is accurate in Sheephunter's thread. But it is a very real situation in much of African hunting. | |||
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| One of Us |
Sheephunters panic created a self fullfilling prophecy. I know,cause I have done it myself. His posting though was not unreasonable. Like someone else stated here,PH use this forum to their advantage, so should clients. There are other PH and there are other clients, no real harm done overall. An education to us all. "No man is your enemy,no man is your friend,but every man is your teacher" Dont take everything that happens to heart, or life too seriously overall,cause you dont get out of it alive anyway. and above all, be thankful for all the time you have on this planet | |||
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one of us |
By far ERIK IS THE SHREWDEST GUY ON THIS THREAD and NITROX has the last wordS of the story, here is my reading first the CONTRACT is allparamount. Then, if someone is selling a hunt in a concession he has not access this is A FRAUD. There is no personal offense, this is general and admitted considerations. J B de Runz Be careful when blindly following the masses ... generally the "m" is silent | |||
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| One Of Us |
I'm not sure about being shrewd as I have no personal gain going on here, but perhaps I'm perceptive.   | |||
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| One of Us |
Where is the booking agent now? Has he responded since Sheephunter's return? It appears as though the booking agent is now avoiding the obvious... | |||
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one of us |
Wow, This is a very sad deal. I hope and pray that this all works out and every one is able to save face. Damage controll is needed ASAP...This is not the kind of publicity any one needs. urdubob Midway USA sucks!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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| Moderator |
sheephunter, I am sorry your hunt turned into a disaster. In retrospect, I guess you should have taken the refund. An outfitter in Zimbabwe switched my PH without informing because another client insisted on my PH as a condition of booking. The guy I ended up with was a bandit of the lowest order. My outfitter in Tanzania waited until the ride to the bush plane to tell me my hunt was switched from the Moyowosi to Muhesi. Needless to say, my hunt was NOT the experience I had hoped it would be. Game was scarce, the food was awful, and poachers were working the area.  It's no surprise that I haven't been back to Africa. Good luck, George  | |||
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| One of Us |
Erik Perhaps you are perseptive because you are so sensitive?  | |||
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| Moderator |
Another thing, sheephunter. You are WELL within your 'rights' to have opened this thread. AR is a veritable treasure trove of information on hunting in Africa. The odds that someone would know the answer to your question are very high, and just because information may come from a 'competitor' doesn't mean it is necessarily false; it just needs to considered with a grain of salt. Give serious thought as to what sort of accommodation you could reach with the other principals in this dispute, and try to work it out with them. George | |||
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| One Of Us |
I've been told that sensitive men make the best lovers.  | |||
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| Moderator |
Hey, Erik! Who told you that? Other 'sensitive men'? Do you like gladiator movies? George | |||
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| One Of Us |
Oops! I guess that sounded kind of "wrong". And could be misinterpreted!   | |||
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| One of Us |
Well Carmello called him sensitive. I hope Erik isn't sensitive about that. Perhaps Carmello is perseptive?  It's been awfully quiet around here since Carmello abandoned ship, or was thrown overboard. | |||
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| One Of Us |
He's probably busy watching "Gladiator" movies. | |||
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| One Of Us |
To bring this back on topic; I for one am still waiting to hear on the "African Hunting Report forum" ( Sheephunters Report ) who actually controls Kigosi, and if Sheephunters hunt was ever actually booked with the concession owners. | |||
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| Moderator |
Eric, Rays has posted over there already, but that issue seems to have been side stepped.. I suspect there is more to this than just this hunt..maybe some "in fighting" between safari company's/operators over concessions? Regards, Pete | |||
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| One of Us |
Well Ray you were right about one thing. SH certainly was the victim! | |||
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| One of Us |
Without taking sides here on this issue, it does point out the obvious importance of Safari companies maintaing a very open line of communication with their clients. I hope other safari operators will take heed of the potential problems with not including the client in important decisions regarding their safari. 465H&H | |||
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| One of Us |
I have beenn burned once before for a much smaller amount. Even so it leaves you with the experience to know that it it doesn't look right, feel right or smell right to you, It ain't right. No wonder Ray was getting in a twist based on what the other outfitters were telling SH. The biggest "tell" of all when you go back and read this is the way Ray goes off half cocked right from the start. The whole thing was a mess from the getgo. | |||
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| One of Us |
HEY, Ray really did know what he was talking about!  | |||
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| one of us |
AEI, what are you trying to achieve with your last post? "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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| One of Us |
I think he meant that it is/was possible that Ray or PVT knew that Kigosi was not available to them as an option. However, that piece of info has not yet come to light. | |||
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| one of us |
George: Could you tell us the name of these outfitters so as to avoid them in the future? | |||
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| Moderator |
dbltap, The outfit in Matetsi was a now-dissolved partnership between Barrie Duckworth (whom the bandit works for now) and Roger Whittall, held on Matetsi River Ranch. To Roger's credit, he listened to my complaints and gave me 10 days' hunting on his Save Valley holdings. The folks in Tanzania were Wengert-Windrose Safaris. George | |||
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..
...If you want to go hunt with Pierre on his original terms, then I will contact him on Sunday and try and reinstate you.. 
...You are getting your money back and you can now go to the Kigosi..what could be better..Those guys ard licking there chops to get you, even the one that is in the other Masai concession wants you and his concession is the best he says. The world is your Oyster... 
