Both problems were my fault. I agreed to take a running shot at a buffalo. I drew blood and we followed the herd for two days till it crossed into the park. The trophy fee was $1800 plus two lost days.
The second was at Joberg airport. Come time to board the plane the serial number on my permit did not match my guns serial number. My gun was an HS and the permit form had the model number rather than a serial number. The police were very helpful for $200. I

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Sad to see Zim appear here quite a bit!

Very true Buzz. And my issue occurred in the area that you are now in control of. But not when you had it obviously.

Been on two hunts where I was certain that the hunt being successful (animal harvested) was not the least priority of the outfitter.

THe PH on both were highly motivated.

The outfitter on the other hand was driven purely by myopic financial considerations. They have received the funds for the hunt - after the checks and wires cleared their interest were focused elsewhere (finding the next person to buy a hunt).

Everyone is driven by financial consideration - I just like dealing with people who are long term greedy (the Goldman Sachs model) versus short term greedy.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/in...ng-long-term-greedy/

"Goldman Sachs legendary Gus Levy created the term ‘long-term greedy.’ Greed is defined as wanting more than you have. Nothing wrong with greed. It is neither good nor bad. There are those who are short-term greedy and those that are long-term greedy.

My take is that most players are short-term greedy. Short-term greedy types are solely interested in making as much money as possible right now and are likely willing to cut corners. Their mantra is, I want what I want, now! Short-term greedy people almost always lose much more than they win, certainly over the longer term.

Long-term greedy means being a professional, which includes doing your homework, keeping your word, cleaning up messes, honoring relationships with clients and employees. In other words, doing the right thing for no reason all the time."


A few bad hunts (not in outcome but in business practices) is actually the best thing that has happened. It has made me much more appreciative of the guys who do a good job and also made me much less likely to spend my money on purely consumption discretionary activity (vacations).

Mike

Only bad financial experience was totally self-inflicted. Was scheduled to leave early, early the next morning to catch a commercial flight. It was about an eight hour drive, so we planned on leaving about 3:30 in the morning.

Happened to catch up with an elephant, last hour of the last day. Long way from the gari. He came to rest wedged down deep in a korongo. Bottom line, we missed the commercial flight and due to nonrefundable International flights, had to book a charter to catch it, which cost more than my international flight.

Knew it when I pulled the trigger though.

Like every thing in life do it long enough and some thing will not work out.

My number 1: is bad weather. 3 trips and 27 days later I shot my first Thar in New Zealand.
most of my friends think this is a joke. Nothing to do with out fitters at all.

My number 2: Plane crash in NWT canada and killing the poilet. Safety interviews, guarding the body from bears, (during the hunting time), etc, etc.

Number 3: is shipping cost, both from USA and Africa. Box's 2x the required size, cost increases, extra road freight, change to permits, etc.
Not going to bring any thing home any more.

Number 4: dispute over $1,200 in costs at the end of the hunt. Items I had already paid for. Never leave camp with out settling the bill. Even when you have paid 100% of expected costs prior.

The only one that gets under my skin is number 3 the current rip off with dip/pack/shipping.
All the rest are just life in the free range hunting world.

Then you start on hunting in Russa and Kirgastan, but if you go there you must expect that.

So all in all considering, given I usually pay 100% up front I think I had done really well.

Picked up Don Hooker's bar tab.

First trip, to Zim six years ago, I got some incorrect information about the tipping process. Had an awesome hunt, but last day in camp came time to tip. I had been told to just give the $$$ to the PH and he would distribute the largesse. That was wrong.

I ended up giving the crew some money, and only having about $400 left. I gave that to the PH, less a twenty, and then had no cash for souvenirs at the airport. NOBODY uses a credit card in Zim.

It worked out though, when I saw the PH at SCI six weeks later, we talked it thru and I gave him a little more. He said my timing was spot on, it gave him an extra night seeing the sights in Reno.

Nothing, compared to these nightmares...

But I learned up front to take the trophies to a recommended (by the PH, who wants you for a return hunt in a year or two) taxidermist and negotiate a written contract.

I left my tickets in camp upon departure. SAA graciously agreed to replace them, for $7,000. I talked them down to $2,000. That was the worst, financially, for nine safaris.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
While we were on a 21 day safari in the Selous, in October of 2008, there was a global financial crisis that rivaled the Great Depression.

It was a fantastic safari, though.

I was hunting in the Selway in Sep of that year; our outfitter had a radio that he turned on for dinner and bfast. Every day on that hunt I lost a ton of money, culminating with Lehman declaring BK. Shot a great bull however.

Only one bad experience. On a 21 day safari, we ran out of bourbon and cigarettes. Both of which the PH was enjoying. The PH radioed in for a resupply on the next regularly scheduled supply flight. It arrived and all was well until it came time to settle up. The outfitter's wife tried to charge us $1,000 US dollars for a half gallon of bourbon and a carton of cigarettes. Needles to say, that didn't go well.

On the right side of things, in 1988 we booked a hunt with Frik Muller Se, of Ngaezi Safaries near Kadoma> ( his sons now own Pro Safaries Africa out of Bulawayo) We took a bank draft for too much money. He said if we use that you won't get your money back, go home and send me the money. It was about 7500.00,quite a bit at that time. He had known us for only 10 days!!! Needless to say the day we got home to Canada, the money was wire transferred. His boys operate today with the same high level of integrity, we hunted there in Rifa last year marking 25 years as clients with the MUllers.

Gents:
Like many of you I've had my ups and downs with the many facets of African hunting. Not just the PHs, but booking agents, airlines, freight companies, etc. And this brings up a point as many of you have written of financial woes.

A former mate and PH now requires all fees, including expected trophy fees, paid in advance by wire transfer, 30 days prior to the hunt. For animals not taken the fee is returned to the hunter after he returns home.

Is this now an accepted practice and does it leave too much open for error--paperwork, or outright thievery? I'd appreciate your feedback as a few potential clients I have spoken to about hunting have shied away. What say you?
Thanks,
Cal

quote:

A former mate and PH now requires all fees, including expected trophy fees, paid in advance by wire transfer, 30 days prior to the hunt. For animals not taken the fee is returned to the hunter after he returns home.

Good luck to him, but I would not hunt with him.
I realize there are risk involved on both sides of a business transaction, but that is just too one sided for me.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Like many of you I've had my ups and downs with the many facets of African hunting. Not just the PHs, but booking agents, airlines, freight companies, etc. And this brings up a point as many of you have written of financial woes.

A former mate and PH now requires all fees, including expected trophy fees, paid in advance by wire transfer, 30 days prior to the hunt. For animals not taken the fee is returned to the hunter after he returns home.

Is this now an accepted practice and does it leave too much open for error--paperwork, or outright thievery? I'd appreciate your feedback as a few potential clients I have spoken to about hunting have shied away. What say you?
Thanks,
Cal

Cal,

I have forwarded money in advance to Africa in two instances and did not regret either. That said, I had felt I vetted the outfit or individual well. The one hunt may never had occurred without the funds going ahead of time and since the quarry was much desired by me I "took a chance". The reward was worth the risk.

I do not like to travel in Africa with large sums of money. I do generally carry over enough to tip in cash.

As far as paying for the hunt (day rates and miscellaneous) I pay in advance. As far as the Trophy fees, if I have a booking agent involved, I usually deposit a large sum to cover all anticipated game. That way the outfitter knows the money exists but doesn't get paid until the hunt is completed.

For one of my hunts this year there is no booking agent and I'm dealing directly. It's a well regarded outfit and I offered to pay in full including anticipated trophy fees in advance and was told to forward the trophy fees on my return to the States after the hunt.

Trust can work in two directions.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
Like many of you I've had my ups and downs with the many facets of African hunting. Not just the PHs, but booking agents, airlines, freight companies, etc. And this brings up a point as many of you have written of financial woes.

A former mate and PH now requires all fees, including expected trophy fees, paid in advance by wire transfer, 30 days prior to the hunt. For animals not taken the fee is returned to the hunter after he returns home.

Is this now an accepted practice and does it leave too much open for error--paperwork, or outright thievery? I'd appreciate your feedback as a few potential clients I have spoken to about hunting have shied away. What say you?
Thanks,
Cal

Cal,

I have forwarded money in advance to Africa in two instances and did not regret either. That said, I had felt I vetted the outfit or individual well. The one hunt may never had occurred without the funds going ahead of time and since the quarry was much desired by me I "took a chance". The reward was worth the risk.

I do not like to travel in Africa with large sums of money. I do generally carry over enough to tip in cash.

As far as paying for the hunt (day rates and miscellaneous) I pay in advance. As far as the Trophy fees, if I have a booking agent involved, I usually deposit a large sum to cover all anticipated game. That way the outfitter knows the money exists but doesn't get paid until the hunt is completed.

For one of my hunts this year there is no booking agent and I'm dealing directly. It's a well regarded outfit and I offered to pay in full including anticipated trophy fees in advance and was told to forward the trophy fees on my return to the States after the hunt.

Trust can work in two directions.

One of these fellows was me. My gratitude for that gesture and others is to provide the best possible safari experience that I could possibly muster. I would say the small operators like myself rely on funding upfront and much appreciate the support.

I took a lot off hard earned money off Jim and Joyce but will always be in debt to them.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:

quote:

A former mate and PH now requires all fees, including expected trophy fees, paid in advance by wire transfer, 30 days prior to the hunt. For animals not taken the fee is returned to the hunter after he returns home.

Good luck to him, but I would not hunt with him.
I realize there are risk involved on both sides of a business transaction, but that is just too one sided for me.

+1 I wish him well, but I wouldn't do that.

The worst thing was that I enjoyed it too much and keep going back, probably more than I should.

More to the point of what you are asking about I will admit that only one of my hunts went exactly like it should with no hitches.

The rest have all had some little things that irritated me to greater or lesser degrees usually well after I was back from there. Most had to do with trophies and shipping.

In my opinion, this is where your booking agent makes his value.

I will say that I have had 2 US hunts and 1 African hunt (so far) that I was not really happy with the resolutions after all was said and done.

The African hunt issues would have been avoided if I would not have assumed that South Africa worked the same as Zimbabwe, Zambia, or Tanzania. The subcontractors that I had not made a contract with before they obtained my animals charged a lot more than I felt right, but they had me, and I had no choice but to pay. The shipping and the dip and pack BOTH cost more than the trophy fees cost for the animals involved. If I had asked the right questions and gotten quotes ahead of time, it would have been a nonissue...

Bad on my part, but since I had been doing this on a handshake and pay COD basis before this, I was ignorant.